:: Home :: Get Hosted :: PPM FAQ :: Forum FAQ :: Privacy Policy :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Register :: Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in ::

Do you want to advertise at Project Perfect Mod. Find out how to do it HERE.

The time now is Tue May 26, 2020 9:03 am
All times are UTC + 0
 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
TS Tiberium based features with Ares
Moderators: Ares Support Team at PPM, Global Moderators, Red Alert 2 Moderators
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [15 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
MasterHaosis
Commander


Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:48 am    Post subject:  TS Tiberium based features with Ares
Subject description: What we can do and recreate from TS lifeforms and Tiberium related stuff
Reply with quote

Hai there.
Since AlexB allowed us to use tiberium heal/damage and custom warhead, it is good start for everything else.
This is topic for here, as it depends of Ares codes mostly.
According to this
http://yellow-killer.tripod.com/id10.html
(perhaps someone who did not play TS for long time, and forgot what many things did, what is their purpose, and how to enable them as it was not possible before Ares)
How we can recreate those stuff from TS into YR using Ares, what is possible, what is not?






I do not think that there is somethin else related to tiberium life forms. if there is, mention please.

Tiberium Floater I think it can be partially recreated. We have tesla weapon for electrolyzing, virus or such gas as secondary weapon.
AlexB told me that problem is Jellyfish=yes tag assigned to Floater adds him more hardcoded stuff, thus cannot be enabled.

Tiberium Moss: I do not know what is it, maybe overlay type as Tiberium/Ore except it cannot be harvested but slows down only your units. Perhaps can be done.

Tiberium Fauna: I do not think that it works as described. I do not think that it actually attracts Ion storm. If it does, then it cannot be done here.

Tiberium Cruentus: it spread blue crystals, therefore not possible here. AlexB said that it is Fire storm only tag. TiberiumToSpawn=2 code is in question which is not present in YR

Tiberium Riparius and Vinifera They are both possible. What is even better, with Ares we can now set custom Damage/heal and warhead to tiberium types!

Veinhole Monster: Sadly, it is not possible at all.

Mutants: Now possible thanks to Tiberium Heal. Additionally, when killed, they scatter tiberium here.

Tiberium Fiend: I was told by AlexB that aside from Tiberium Heal this cannot be done, as it has Doggie=yes tag which adds several logics to it. It uses prone over tiberium and has increased panic when on red, or such...

As you can see, some are using prone in that picture when stood in tiberium.

Visceroids They are possible, at least partially as I tested. They are vehicle types which required special logic infantry to become vehicle type upon death. They wander around and travels all time constanbtly. Additionally, we can use MakeInfantry upon death to create infantry type visceroids, we have greater choice here as two different tiberiums can create two different type of units thanks to custom warheads. Also we can add isCow=yes to visceroid, so it can wander slowly wound.

Tiberium Gas: Many things release that gas in TS, but I think it is possible as we already have few type of gas too. That gas created visceroids upon death too. I do not know if that is possible or not, but thanks to make infantry logic, we can at least have infantry type visceroid.

Ion Storms: I was told by AlexB this is not possible as if enabled, in TS Ion storms appeared randomly over map. We can only use similiar via map triggers or such, partially to enable it using lighting storm SW, converting it to ION storm.

Whats your opinions?
_________________
OrangeNero wrote:
Me picking a fight? I know I am the greatest user alive here so everyone starts reading topics with my posts first and ignores the ones before and after.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EricAnimeFreak
Tiberian Fiend


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: USA New England

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tiberium Fauna could be done, of course, how you balance it, or decide how often it fires, or randomness of it etc, would be rather hard.

Veinhole Monster and Veins using Alex latest testing branch could be done, I think. Seeing how there are unused tiberium overlays to exploit. Basically the Monster would be a building which autofires gas and also spreads this new type of Ore Vein. The real problem would be duplicating the spreading ability, and damage to buildings.

Ion Storms as they were in TS are not possible. But a very close workaround is possible using map editing. I made MLEP originally for the purpose of recreating TS Ion Storms.
_________________
Grab my Map Logic Expansion Pack 5.2 here!
Adds random weather patterns into maps.
More disabled navalyards.
Preplaced Neutral buildings.
Additional new features.

Enjoy Everyone!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasterHaosis wrote:
Tiberium Floater I think it can be partially recreated. We have tesla weapon for electrolyzing, virus or such gas as secondary weapon.
AlexB told me that problem is Jellyfish=yes tag assigned to Floater adds him more hardcoded stuff, thus cannot be enabled.

Jellyfish=yes makes it use in TS the keys under the [LEVITATION] section, which gives it together with the unique locomotor {3DC0B295-6546-11D3-80B0-00902792494C} the special random movement and attacking behaviour.

MasterHaosis wrote:
Tiberium Moss: I do not know what is it, maybe overlay type as Tiberium/Ore except it cannot be harvested but slows down only your units. Perhaps can be done.

It's nothing else than a LAT (terrain like grass, clear or rough)
No need for Ares to add such a thing, you only have to replace one of the existing LATs. (Does Ares allow to add new LATs ?)

MasterHaosis wrote:
Tiberium Fauna: I do not think that it works as described. I do not think that it actually attracts Ion storm. If it does, then it cannot be done here.

Nothing but ordinary terrain. No additional logic is applied to them in TS. They are like trees.
The key LightningRod, which makes it attract IonStorm bolts, works only on buildings in TS.

MasterHaosis wrote:
Tiberium Cruentus: it spread blue crystals, therefore not possible here. AlexB said that it is Fire storm only tag. TiberiumToSpawn=2 code is in question which is not present in YR

Use art.ini debris via an activeanim on a dummy building to spawn any overlay/tiberium you want. (No Ares necessary)

MasterHaosis wrote:
Tiberium Riparius and Vinifera They are both possible. What is even better, with Ares we can now set custom Damage/heal and warhead to tiberium types!

Use CellAnim on the tiberium overlays (without any randomizing keys on the anim in art.ini, which cause sync-losses in online games). Then you can use the anim to do any damage/healing you want even without Ares.

MasterHaosis wrote:
Veinhole Monster: Sadly, it is not possible at all.

a combination of art.ini debris and CellAnim. Not 100% the same but at least a bit similar.

MasterHaosis wrote:
Mutants: Now possible thanks to Tiberium Heal. Additionally, when killed, they scatter tiberium here.

special/reserved armor for these, overlays with damaging cellanim and warhead that heals on this armor, special deathweapon with explosion using art.ini debris. (No Ares necessary, just some modding)

MasterHaosis wrote:
Tiberium Fiend: I was told by AlexB that aside from Tiberium Heal this cannot be done, as it has Doggie=yes tag which adds several logics to it. It uses prone over tiberium and has increased panic when on red, or such...

As you can see, some are using prone in that picture when stood in tiberium.

The additional dog logic that RA2 offers is superior to any hardcoded behaviour of doggie in TS. Simply give it prone frames as the default standing frames and you have it in RA2.

MasterHaosis wrote:
Tiberium Gas: Many things release that gas in TS, but I think it is possible as we already have few type of gas too. That gas created visceroids upon death too. I do not know if that is possible or not, but thanks to make infantry logic, we can at least have infantry type visceroid.

Does the RA2 "Gas" BehavesLike TS gas? Does it move around randomly too?
Anyway, the TS gas isn't very special, so it surely can be done one way or another in RA2 too.

MasterHaosis wrote:
Ion Storms: I was told by AlexB this is not possible as if enabled, in TS Ion storms appeared randomly over map. We can only use similiar via map triggers or such, partially to enable it using lighting storm SW, converting it to ION storm.

better use an invisible dummy building, that spawns via an activeanim art.ini debris all over the map some random lightning bolts.
Then you can simply turn on/off the building and this way start/stop the IonStorm.
The building could also get a special AntiAir weapon which shoots down instantly any flying aircraft.
Further the building can get the tiled light keys, to give the map a different lighting when powered.

Done right, you then only have to place that single building to a map, and create a few triggers to randomly turn that building on and off.
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Glukv48
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Location: Russia, Krasnodar.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also we can add isCow=yes to visceroid, so it can wander slowly wound.

isCow= It only works for the InfantryTypes. There is a tag for VehicleTypes, this LargeVisceroid=yes

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MasterHaosis
Commander


Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Tiberium Fauna could be done, of course, how you balance it, or decide how often it fires, or randomness of it etc, would be rather hard.

As LKO said, it is ordinary terrain, like trees. That does not do anything.

EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Veinhole Monster and Veins using Alex latest testing branch could be done, I think. Seeing how there are unused tiberium overlays to exploit. Basically the Monster would be a building which autofires gas and also spreads this new type of Ore Vein. The real problem would be duplicating the spreading ability, and damage to buildings.

Well, there are 4 Ore types, two are unused, although I heard that there is one which is masked as regular ore in some maps.

EricAnimeFreak wrote:
Ion Storms as they were in TS are not possible. But a very close workaround is possible using map editing. I made MLEP originally for the purpose of recreating TS Ion Storms.

Yes, I saw your workaround. it is done for each map separately via triggers.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Jellyfish=yes makes it use in TS the keys under the [LEVITATION] section, which gives it together with the unique locomotor {3DC0B295-6546-11D3-80B0-00902792494C} the special random movement and attacking behaviour.

LKO, thanks for reply Very Happy I knew TS talking will bring you here haha
I did not know that Floater is that much hardcoded, AlexB for sure mentioned his special movement but did not say what exactly.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
No need for Ares to add such a thing, you only have to replace one of the existing LATs. (Does Ares allow to add new LATs ?)

I though that it is overly type hehe.
I do not know if Ares can add new LATs, never checked it, but I do not think so.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Nothing but ordinary terrain. No additional logic is applied to them in TS. They are like trees.
The key LightningRod, which makes it attract IonStorm bolts, works only on buildings in TS.

Yes, thanks to Ares, we have that tag too on buildings.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Use art.ini debris via an activeanim on a dummy building to spawn any overlay/tiberium you want. (No Ares necessary)

So this can work even for blue crystals?
I saw such metod in Mental omega and few other mods where buildings spawn Tiberium but did not know that it can be used to spawn blue one.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Use CellAnim on the tiberium overlays (without any randomizing keys on the anim in art.ini, which cause sync-losses in online games). Then you can use the anim to do any damage/healing you want even without Ares.

No, CellAnims do not work as supposed. Anim is player later even if no ore is present. Additional, I heard that cell anim cause recon error.
So, for Tiberium Damage/heal, Ares is a must.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
a combination of art.ini debris and CellAnim. Not 100% the same but at least a bit similar.

No Cell anim. But as EricAnimeFreak said, perhaps unused Tiberium type may work, while it automatically spreads toxin gas.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
special deathweapon with explosion using art.ini debris. (No Ares necessary, just some modding)

But then you cannot have his own death. Point is that infantry will get flamed, melted, electrolized etc etc... while still scatter tiberium upon death.
Sure that special anims work on units such as Tiberium Fiend which does not die as normal human, therefore it is possible.
And you just gave me idea!

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The additional dog logic that RA2 offers is superior to any hardcoded behaviour of doggie in TS. Simply give it prone frames as the default standing frames and you have it in RA2.

Wait second. Does Tiberium Fiend us his prone only when standing over Tiberium? I think it is so he can camouflage there.
So, if I put default prone when standing, it will prone even in normal ground.
But I got idea for this though player controlled Tiberium Fiend can do that.
We have deploy infantry like GI or GGI, therefore we can manually deploy Fiend in Ore patch Very Happy

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Does the RA2 "Gas" BehavesLike TS gas? Does it move around randomly too?
Anyway, the TS gas isn't very special, so it surely can be done one way or another in RA2 too.

I do not know how gs behaves in TS, but I suppose its same, such as Virus gas.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
better use an invisible dummy building, that spawns via an activeanim art.ini debris all over the map some random lightning bolts.
Then you can simply turn on/off the building and this way start/stop the IonStorm.

How can bolts exactly be spawned as debris?

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The building could also get a special AntiAir weapon which shoots down instantly any flying aircraft.
Further the building can get the tiled light keys, to give the map a different lighting when powered.

Well, yes we have tesla weapon already additionally we may color it, but point is, if it is weapon, then it must fire only from some point such is its FLH. But partially it can be solved with Alternate FLHs as masterMind has those.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Done right, you then only have to place that single building to a map, and create a few triggers to randomly turn that building on and off.

That means triggers are still a must.

Glukv48 wrote:
isCow= It only works for the InfantryTypes. There is a tag for VehicleTypes, this LargeVisceroid=yes

Yes, I know,  I was referring to infantry type visceroid.
Also, SmallVisceroid=yes also creates similiar effect on vehicle type.
_________________
OrangeNero wrote:
Me picking a fight? I know I am the greatest user alive here so everyone starts reading topics with my posts first and ignores the ones before and after.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasterHaosis wrote:
How can bolts exactly be spawned as debris?

Create an anim of a bolt, then use it as the explosion of the debris.


MasterHaosis wrote:
That means triggers are still a must.

They are a must in TS as well. Without doing any work, you also don't have any Ion Storms in TS.
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Veinholes are possible, they just can't grow in a normal way. I used to have them working with debris, gattling logic to fire far and near (heavy guess work to be done), and AreaFire, creating overlays through some creative means.

I suppose one might be able to expand upon that now with AnimToInfantry and build further expanding veins that expand more precisely and cleaner, almost TS-like.

Still vein harvesting logic is impossible though AFAIK. Though Ares might expand upon it eventually.
_________________
"Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything."

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail YouTube User URL
SMIFFGIG
General


Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Use CellAnim on the tiberium overlays (without any randomizing keys on the anim in art.ini, which cause sync-losses in online games)

You could always post this in a bit more detail to updated my Tiberium Twinkle tutorial in the tutorial forum.

I didnt know there was a solution to this problem Smile
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Skype Account
Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bittah and me did that already Wink
see my first post in (**) Tiberium Twinkle Smile
RandomLoopDelay is the culprit.
_________________
SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection:  Nod buildings

Public SHPs
X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

Tools
Image Shaper______TMP Shop______C&C Executable Modifier

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MasterHaosis
Commander


Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Create an anim of a bolt, then use it as the explosion of the debris.

Whoa Lin Kuei! Did you made that effect or it is stock TS Bolt anim?

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
They are a must in TS as well. Without doing any work, you also don't have any Ion Storms in TS.

Wait. TS I0on Storms all time are done in each map?
I though they are by random definied in rule.ini and they automatically fire in each map.
So they should be set in each map separately?

4StarGeneral wrote:
Veinholes are possible, they just can't grow in a normal way. I used to have them working with debris, gattling logic to fire far and near (heavy guess work to be done), and AreaFire, creating overlays through some creative means.

LKO gave best idea, anim which spawns overlay. And you seem also to give some ideas.
Does anyone have voinehole example somewhere?
I have never seen that in YR mod.

Lin KUei Ominae, how does veinhole attack exactly? I know that it spreads gas but does it spread automatically at target when in it's range, or simply gas randomly appears from it's center and floats around?

4StarGeneral wrote:
I suppose one might be able to expand upon that now with AnimToInfantry and build further expanding veins that expand more precisely and cleaner, almost TS-like.

How can be used anim to infantry?

Yes, Veinhole Harvest logic cannot be done. Why for veins were used, for some superweapon?
_________________
OrangeNero wrote:
Me picking a fight? I know I am the greatest user alive here so everyone starts reading topics with my posts first and ignores the ones before and after.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasterHaosis wrote:
Whoa Lin Kuei! Did you made that effect or it is stock TS Bolt anim?

The stock lighting bolt in TS looks nothing like that, so he must've made it (his version might actually look a bit better than the stock lighting bolt).
MasterHaosis wrote:
Wait. TS I0on Storms all time are done in each map?
I though they are by random definied in rule.ini and they automatically fire in each map.
So they should be set in each map separately?

Ion Storms can only be started via map triggers, yes.
MasterHaosis wrote:
how does veinhole attack exactly? I know that it spreads gas but does it spread automatically at target when in it's range, or simply gas randomly appears from it's center and floats around?

The veins will simply start attacking any unit that's standing (or moving) right on top of it, unless the unit has ImmuneToVeins=yes. The attack is just an SHP animation which keeps repeating for as long as a unit is standing on the cell, which gradually damages it.
The veinhole monster itself also has sort of an attack, although it can't actually target anything. It start spawning gas clouds whenever it gets attacked by anything and these gas clouds just drift off into random directions, like gas clouds normally do in TS.
MasterHaosis wrote:
Why for veins were used, for some superweapon?

They're used to charge Nod's chemical missile.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail ModDB Profile ID YouTube User URL Facebook Profile URL
4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnimToInfantry, and those infantry areafire with selfdamaging weapons that spawn overlays and spawn more infantry, thus expanding, obviously adding a large delay to each weapon, etc.
_________________
"Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything."

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail YouTube User URL
MasterHaosis
Commander


Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, but I planned to create veinhole monster as SHP Building, which has anim which spawns out overlay type. One unused tiberium type actually which looks like veins. Monster would have some weapon actually which spreads out gas clouds at enemies.
But I have question cause I haven-t tried that yet.
Can any overlay type be used for spawn, or it must be just tiberium type?
If I use unused tiberium type can it be made unharvestable?
_________________
OrangeNero wrote:
Me picking a fight? I know I am the greatest user alive here so everyone starts reading topics with my posts first and ignores the ones before and after.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MasterHaosis
Commander


Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Jellyfish=yes makes it use in TS the keys under the [LEVITATION] section, which gives it together with the unique locomotor {3DC0B295-6546-11D3-80B0-00902792494C} the special random movement and attacking behaviour.

Ah LKO, few nights ago AlexB told me that Jellyfish=yes has nothing to do with locomotor. He said that it disables some checks and adds specific wandering and attacking behavior.
_________________
OrangeNero wrote:
Me picking a fight? I know I am the greatest user alive here so everyone starts reading topics with my posts first and ignores the ones before and after.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MasterHaosis
Commander


Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now Jellyfish is possible with Attach Effect! Very Happy



Thanks to Graion Dilach, who was helpful, I managed to mimic Floater, so it can can fire its weapon and release gas cloud in same time. Only difference than in TS it is doing that while moving, here all time releasing each cloud by some period (which is even better)
_________________
OrangeNero wrote:
Me picking a fight? I know I am the greatest user alive here so everyone starts reading topics with my posts first and ignores the ones before and after.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [15 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
Jump to:  
Share on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on Google+Share on DiggShare on RedditShare on PInterestShare on Del.icio.usShare on Stumble Upon
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group

[ Time: 0.3483s ][ Queries: 10 (0.0144s) ][ Debug on ]