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Command & Conquer: Continuum [ARES]
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH, Generals China is pretty much '50s and they could get away with it.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly that was what I was thinking at least for the Soviets. Sure, things like the Yak and Il-2 might be a stretch, but otherwise, I feel "multi-teching" is VERY common in the "eastern bloc", not to mention that half the world uses out-dated soviet equipment from the mid-20th century even in real life (the arab countries, many latin american ones, etc).

Come to think, in RA2/YR, the Soviets used _Zeppelins_ in the 1970's, which were only used in WW1 in real life.
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH, the zeppelins make sense. RA2 Soviet weaponry is more reminiscent of the Nazis than actual Soviets themselves - flak, Zeppelin, not to mention Conscript being a frickin recolored SS trooper.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never liked that really... even RA was the same. Like I said in the OP, when it got to units, Westwood pretty much just painted Nazi Germany in different colors - heavy tanks, V2 missiles, all that. Soviet military equipment and doctrine in WW2 and the 50's was VERY different from that of Nazi Germany.
Some things in RA were Soviet-ish (Mig, Hind), but essentially, it was just good old WW2 and, from a combat standpoint, it was never really a "what if 50's Soviets had fought 50's Europeans" game. And you're right, RA2 throws some more realism overboard (in RA, it could maybe still be justified with some bends and turns in the fluff) and introduces things like flak and zeppelins and half-tracks...

That is why I removed almost all of RA/RA2's supposed "Soviet" tech in my mod and gave it to the Nazi faction, so that the Soviets will play more like proper Soviets now (ie focus on mass production, medium tanks, mechanized infantry, artillery).
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that most tech advancements in the '50s were related to Germany in a way... both Soviet and US space programs were originated from the salvaged V project, for example.

Yes, Sovvies were more like GenChina in terms of how-would-have-been-if-realistic-gameplay but tbh the We Have Reserves approach wouldn't look enough menacing for a Big Bad in an RTS.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kept all that in mind too when starting my mod, I resisted the temptation to move everything to the wrong side for the sake of more historical consistency... BUT I also chose to run with the idea of derivative designs, or evolutions, so there's nothing truly lifelike it it.

Anyway, I think it's ok to run with the soviets-as-nazis theme, provided we conitnue to run with it, not pull back a few units for realism.

The Stuka is a great example of a unit that very well could have had further development, leading to a moar betterrer airplane, possibly with a similar focus on fear, just updated munitions. In some ways they are very much the Warthog of the day, dive bombing tanks/squads.

I'd seriously consider combining the two to make something in-between as your "new" Stuka...
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, with 5 major sides to balance that all need their distinct playstyle, units and strategies, I want to avoid having two sides that are kinda-similar. Since I have the Third Power, the Soviets no longer have to play the Nazi role, and in turn, if they would continue to do so, I would have two very similar sides, which I want to avoid. I really think playing a more "soviet" Soviet side would be interesting in-game.

Yes, you can go overboard with  a certain side's "gimmick". For example, for awhile, I thought the Eastasians should be the side with the best and most widespread use of rockets and rocket artillery (a la March of War), because, historically, gunpowder and rockets originated in China.
However, that was kind of at odds with things that were inspired by more recent history - for example, in WW2, the Soviets were the faction which was mostly associated with rocket artillery. So yes, going too much into detail and considering too many historical precedents is something to avoid because things start getting very contradictory.
Same for Nazi-inspired weapons technology. It is true that much post-war Soviet and American technology was based on things developed in Germany during the war, but removing everything from the other factions that has a stronger association with Germany would mess up the game in vast and weird ways - no other side could have jet aircraft, for example, but I'm not going to be that strict. OTOH, you can also go overboard with historical realism which in more modern eras, is A) very hard to model in the RA2 engine B) would make most factions almost identical and pretty bland. just my 2 cents on faction design

The Warthog/StuKa is an interesting idea, but I have to be careful not to let it cross over into Allied territory too much, because the Allies already have the *real* A-10 Warthog...

EDIT:
Actually, thinking about it a bit more, I think there is a difference between "technology" and "theme" of a faction. The theme determines which technology a faction will use. I think zeppelins are a great example - anyone has the technology to build zeppelins, they just don't do it. Nazi Germany does it (in fiction anyways), not because it's awesome technology nobody else has access to, but because it fits with their theme.
In some cases, the technology may be afforded in part by the setting - for example, if I would be going by historical precedents alone, then ONLY the British would be allowed tanks. Indeed that was the case for a few months of WW1. But the technology spread to other countries, so by late WW1, tanks are firmly a "theme" of western civilization. By the time of RA2, it would be ridiculous to limit tanks (originally British) to the British. Or to western Europe. Historically, technology spreads and gets adapted by other countries. But _how_ they adapt it and how they use it depends on the theme in a given setting - if everyone has tanks, then perhaps one side opts for light and all-terrain (in my case Eastasia), while another wants imposing monstrosities (Third Power) or a middle ground between armor, speed and firepower (Soviets). Or maybe they try for something, but it ends up inferior (Allies), because their strengths lie somewhere else.
Now if I added, say, primitive tribesmen or aliens, they might not even have tanks at all! Infact, the Brotherhood might end up not having any native tanks at all, only modified contraptions of civvie vehicles and looted vehicles from other factions. In other words, sharing technologies, even if they originated with a certain faction, is okay - but crossing into another faction's "theme" is not. Just like you wouldn't give Allies a building of rough brick with an onion dome and hammer/sickle/star decoration - that's the Soviet "theme".

Keep in mind that some factions may use absurd and impractical things not because it's their unique technology, but because they have a _lack_ of technology to do better. To take an example from a totally different setting - anyone could make spears and bows (with a little practice), yet the Spaniards who came to America did not do that - they used their steel weapons and guns and the spears and bows stayed part of the "Aztec" theme.

And then, of course, there is some technology (alot) which is entirely fictional and has no historical precedent at all - just one of fiction clichées. Like my Nazis having flying saucers, tractor beams and plasma weapons. Historically total bogus - but it fits their theme.

In the case of me splitting Soviet and X³ (Third Power) "doctrine", or playstyle, that was done because I considered the whole "heavy, expensive uber units" the theme of the X³. It is _inspired_ by historical realism, but the units themselves are of course not 1:1 simulations of historical units. Likewise, I consider the love for artillery and highly mobile medium units part of the Soviet "theme". That "theme" is inspired by history - moreso than Westwood's idea for the Soviets, but I am not going to go to the length of, say, D-Day*, to simulate every unit at highest possible accuracy. Sure, I have a plenty of "real" units in my mod (T-55, T-62, Scud), but others (flame tank, Pike) are clichée mashups or totally fictional.

Oh my, I think I should write a 15-page guide on faction design and technology...
Also sorry if this post does not make a lot of sense - I was just brainstorming and my english is not the best (I'm JP).

footnote:
* I think D-Day is the most impressive mod I've ever come across for RA2
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Small update
Ever since I added the Tankette, I was kind of pressed to find separate roles for the Lynx and Tankette. Both were vehicles with an anti-tank design but no special functionality, just in different weight classes. It also irked me that the EA would have as their basic units pretty bland weaker versions of the basic tanks of the other factions.

So... in the last few days, I've made an effort to make this unit unique and distinct. The Lynx and Tankette are merged into one unit now (Lynx Tankette, oh boy!). The awkward "long rifle" design of the original turret was replaced with a missile launcher (perhaps I will re-design it later with an autocannon or similar weapon for anti-infantry purposes).


This new unit receives sensors upon Veteran promotion and crushing and self-heal (nanites did it!) upon elite promotion.

The Lynx Tankette also inherited the Lynx Tank's "Auxiliary Drone" elite promotion feature. I think I've not really explained this feature so far:

Once deployed, the drone will accompany its parent vehicle, hovering overhead when passive. When the Lynx attacks a target, the drone joins in, firing its own weapons at the enemy. When firing upon a vehicle or building, the drone fires another missile equal to that fired by the Lynx, effectively doubling the firepower. When firing at an infantry unit, it supports the Lynx (which is otherwise unsuited for anti-infantry combat) with a machine gun. The drone also brings its own sensors to the field, which exceed those of the Lynx, so that the sensor range of an elite Lynx exceeds that of a vet Lynx (at least while the drone is around). When shot down, the drone will not be replaced.

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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Crappy First Attempt of mine on the Tsunami Tank makes me cringe now everytime when I know I can probably make one close to the Concept Art/In-Game of RA3 now...
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I like it alot! It design/shape really suits the faction. Just the gun seemed a little awkward, but that's not because of your voxel, but because of how EA designed the unit. It might work for RA3, but with my units/technology, it just didn't work well, so I changed it.
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PillBox20
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Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gun was elegant in RA3. Just like the Japanese Katana. Smile
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
Oh I like it alot! It design/shape really suits the faction. Just the gun seemed a little awkward, but that's not because of your voxel, but because of how EA designed the unit. It might work for RA3, but with my units/technology, it just didn't work well, so I changed it.


Yeah but it's still pale.
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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anything you should find the time to learn to voxel and just make it look like the Metal Slug or something.

I wish I still had the old one lying around but I can't remember if I uploaded it here as well or it died along with my old laptop.
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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That tsunami tank vxl is hideous undetailed kid's toy thing as it stands right now but as seen this mod has little quality standard so guess its okay xD

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm not too much into the graphical aspect. For me, detailed voxels etc are mostly an extra, while for the community here, it seems to be a pretty central aspect. It's just different approaches, I guess.

Like I said several times, I will maybe eventually do a graphical overhaul at some point, but first I want all other parts of the mod to be present and functional.
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Allied General
General


Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
Yeah, I'm not too much into the graphical aspect. For me, detailed voxels etc are mostly an extra, while for the community here, it seems to be a pretty central aspect. It's just different approaches, I guess.


Excuse me if it wasn't your intention but don't belittle artists otherwise your mod would only have stock Westwood assets. If graphics aren't important why not just Image=HTNK on every unit?

As several others have mentioned it's about quality control.

Any of us here could add 10x additional factions with "placeholder" graphics. Heck back in 2000 I had mods with every unit from TS and RA1. Doesn't mean it's necessarily good or interesting. It's about taking time to create factions which feel like proper factions and not something made from searching cool things on Wikipedia or YouTube.

A mod with good quality assets suggests to the viewer you have taken time in creating your project. Along with proper grammar and spacing, its pleasant to look at and easy to read.

Also as a modding community, we obviously have higher expectations on graphical quality - most of us here already know how to mod, so you don't need to make a feature sound like it's "revolutionary."

But hey you still insist on writing massive walls of text and ignoring advice on themes and graphical consistency. It doesn't matter what community it is - quality and effort applies to every game creation hobby.

Also from a more practical point of few their is a limit before recoloured ra2 infantry and cnp hacked together structures are going to work together and I know making good looking structures and infantry takes a lot of time and effort.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allied General wrote:
Millennium wrote:
Yeah, I'm not too much into the graphical aspect. For me, detailed voxels etc are mostly an extra, while for the community here, it seems to be a pretty central aspect. It's just different approaches, I guess.


Excuse me if it wasn't your intention but don't belittle artists otherwise your mod would only have stock Westwood assets. If graphics aren't important why not just Image=HTNK on every unit?


I explicitely said it was just a different approach. I'm not belittling anyone. If you think it's in some way negative that people care about the visual aspect, then you have a problem with the people who do that. I don't think it's negative in any way. It's like playing TS or TW... some people still play TS, even though the graphics are super antiquated, it's still a fun game to play. But that doesn't mean those people are "belittling" EA for making TW, which has better graphics (just talking about graphics now, I'm sure there is plenty negative things we could say about TW, but that's beside the point).

That's more what I mean. For me personally, it has no bearing how good the graphics (to a point) are as long as the gameplay is fun.

The community here DOES care alot about graphics, as you have already read in the rest of this thread.
In other threads, units are praised for the voxel they use (as long as its self-made), even though that has no bearing on gameplay. That's not belittling in any way, it's just the experience I've had here so far.

About the "HTNK" thing... well... I do have a certain limit below which I wouldn't go with graphics. I do want my graphics to represent the appearance of their units, even if not very detailed. It's important for gameplay also, obviously.

Quote:

As several others have mentioned it's about quality control.

Any of us here could add 10x additional factions with "placeholder" graphics. Heck back in 2000 I had mods with every unit from TS and RA1. Doesn't mean it's necessarily good or interesting. It's about taking time to create factions which feel like proper factions and not something made from searching cool things on Wikipedia or YouTube.

I've heard criticism of my actual faction design just once before. This doesn't really apply to me I think. RA3:Paradox was a great mod (or... was becoming a great mod when it got cancelled) and it was inspired completely by pop culture and re-hashed factions from other C&C games. I don't think I'm using random wikipedia or youtube more than they are. Also I cannot make sense of how having good voxels ties in with factions that are not based on things from Youtube or Wikipedia. Just because it's easy to add 10 boring factions if you're just using bad voxels doesn't mean good voxels make your factions any more interesting, just because it takes you more time to make them.  

Quote:

A mod with good quality assets suggests to the viewer you have taken time in creating your project.

You're right.

Quote:

Along with proper grammar and spacing, its pleasant to look at and easy to read.

I have not noticed that my posts had issues with grammar. Sure it's not fine literature, but average for forum posts? #Tongue

Quote:

Also as a modding community, we obviously have higher expectations on graphical quality - most of us here already know how to mod, so you don't need to make a feature sound like it's "revolutionary."

Did I? Iunno, was just describing the units. But you're agreeing that the expectations for visuals are high in this community.

Quote:

But hey you still insist on writing massive walls of text and ignoring advice on themes and graphical consistency.

You're right (I think), but please clarify "themes".

Quote:

It doesn't matter what community it is - quality and effort applies to every game creation hobby.

Yes, my effort for the moment goes into gameplay. At a later point, it might go into graphics.

Quote:

Also from a more practical point of few their is a limit before recoloured ra2 infantry and cnp hacked together structures are going to work together and I know making good looking structures and infantry takes a lot of time and effort.

Again you're right.

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Saref
Disk Thrower


Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Il-2 is too outdated. It looks antique compared to other units and in real history soviets started to replace it with Il-10 shortly before the end of WW2. Why not use more advanced Il-10M instead? Or jet powered Il-40 developed in the 50's? Or it could be Il-102, competitor to the Su-25?
And ground attack plane with single big gun more fits for nazis than soviets.

Il-10M

Il-40

Il-102

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
Quote:

As several others have mentioned it's about quality control.

Any of us here could add 10x additional factions with "placeholder" graphics. Heck back in 2000 I had mods with every unit from TS and RA1. Doesn't mean it's necessarily good or interesting. It's about taking time to create factions which feel like proper factions and not something made from searching cool things on Wikipedia or YouTube.

I've heard criticism of my actual faction design just once before. This doesn't really apply to me I think. RA3:Paradox was a great mod (or... was becoming a great mod when it got cancelled) and it was inspired completely by pop culture and re-hashed factions from other C&C games. I don't think I'm using random wikipedia or youtube more than they are. Also I cannot make sense of how having good voxels ties in with factions that are not based on things from Youtube or Wikipedia. Just because it's easy to add 10 boring factions if you're just using bad voxels doesn't mean good voxels make your factions any more interesting, just because it takes you more time to make them.


I am usually not calling apparently-intelligent people retarded, but you are retarded, Millennium. You certainly don't have quality control and you fail to realize your mod is not appealing and even TS voxels were better than yours.

This isn't about voxels per se, it's about art consistency, and you don't give a ztype about it. Oh, and you DO go add random art you like, just not from YouTube/Wikipedia but your source being YRArg. Otherwise your "superb bloatware" factions couldn't be done.

People can praise quality voxel artwork even if they're public. Look at RedRes, for example. That's quality. The point is, dude, that if you want to make good PR, then go and accept criticism. If you don't care then accept that our POV won't change on this.

It's true that gameplay will gonna stick players to a game, however screenshots will be the thing which will gonna make them download the games at the first place. And I see bloated factions and nonexistant quality control - that implies me c'n'p modding, however else you'd try.

Grasp this, man.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Millennium wrote:
Quote:

As several others have mentioned it's about quality control.

Any of us here could add 10x additional factions with "placeholder" graphics. Heck back in 2000 I had mods with every unit from TS and RA1. Doesn't mean it's necessarily good or interesting. It's about taking time to create factions which feel like proper factions and not something made from searching cool things on Wikipedia or YouTube.

I've heard criticism of my actual faction design just once before. This doesn't really apply to me I think. RA3:Paradox was a great mod (or... was becoming a great mod when it got cancelled) and it was inspired completely by pop culture and re-hashed factions from other C&C games. I don't think I'm using random wikipedia or youtube more than they are. Also I cannot make sense of how having good voxels ties in with factions that are not based on things from Youtube or Wikipedia. Just because it's easy to add 10 boring factions if you're just using bad voxels doesn't mean good voxels make your factions any more interesting, just because it takes you more time to make them.


I am usually not calling apparently-intelligent people retarded, but you are retarded, Millennium.

 Rolling Eyes

Quote:

You certainly don't have quality control and you fail to realize your mod is not appealing and even TS voxels were better than yours.

Yes, I realize that, it's just not very important to me. As long as I don't break any forum rules, I can present my mod here. It does not have to appeal to many people. And yes, some TS voxels might have been better than some of the voxels I'm using, I don't know.

Quote:

This isn't about voxels per se, it's about art consistency, and you don't give a ztype about it.

Yes, you're right.

Quote:

Oh, and you DO go add random art you like, just not from YouTube/Wikipedia but your source being YRArg. Otherwise your "superb bloatware" factions couldn't be done.

I think you mean I just download random voxels and then make up units to go with them? That's not true at all, the unit lists have been around for ages, long before I started getting the voxels to match them. In fact, I think if I went for higher-quality voxels, then my mod would contain "random" units, because I would be limited by the voxels that are available and then had to make the units to match them.
Please explain "bloatware factions".

Quote:

People can praise quality voxel artwork even if they're public. Look at RedRes, for example. That's quality. The point is, dude, that if you want to make good PR, then go and accept criticism. If you don't care then accept that our POV won't change on this.

Yes, I accept that, I'm not going around preaching. But my POV won't change either. Gameplay and coding first, then maybe graphics. If someone posts in this thread like AG did, I will reply to it because HE was seeking the convo with me.

Quote:

It's true that gameplay will gonna stick players to a game, however screenshots will be the thing which will gonna make them download the games at the first place.

Yes you're right.

Quote:

And I see bloated factions and nonexistant quality control - that implies me c'n'p modding, however else you'd try.

Can you explain "bloated factions"?

Quote:

Grasp this, man.

I understand it! I'm just making a mod that is different from what the community likes. That's NBD for me.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do I really need to explain "bloated factions" when you already acknowledged it once?!

Millennium wrote:
One upgrades to the other. The T-64 is the base tank, but if the player owns tech structure X (I don't know yet what structure that will be - perhaps I will give Industrial Plant back to the Soviets), then the T-64 is removed and the T-80 becomes available.

Those two tanks do not so much have different tactical roles, but different economic roles. One is cheaper and weaker, one is more expensive, but also more effective. It's about resource allocation.

The only units which for now have considerable tactical overlap that I'm not sure how to resolve are the PropTruck <-> BMP, and BMP <-> Shilka, as well as the Eastasian aircraft (I will probably end up making Dragonfly, Colibri and Pelican all highly specialized as anti-inf, anti-vehicle, anti-building... or something).

A few other units have some overlap in what they're meant to counter, but they are still so different that each will find a situational use (I hope).


This is bloatware. Com Mon thinking is just unnecessary bloatware in an RTS which shouldn't even pop up at all if you properly planned your mod out.

If you claim you put effort into it then atleast you could show the effort - because all I see are plug'n'play modding. With terrible art.

Especially when I look into your Paradox styled faction showcases. All I see is a huge list and just one faction of yours seem much bigger than my factions (which, while still having 3 subs, are more divergent than MO since I made a house rule that a faction is only okay, if it has 8 unique units).

It makes no frickin sense.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like to make my factions immersive, certain units have to be in them, even if multiple roles could possibly be filled by fewer units, reducing the total unit count.

In other parts (BMP, Shilka, Proptruck), you're right, I have simply not gotten around to decide/balance the roles yet, like in the case of the BMP and Shilka. That's not intentional, it's something that is still under construction. I did not present a completed mod in my first post.

Paradox had MANY more units (for the major factions) than I have in my mod. Atomic China alone had like 8 or 9 vessels, for example (can't be sure anymore, their wiki is down) and it worked for them. The Syndicate had two complete rosters of infantry (one "naked", one in powered armor) PLUS a vehicle selection nearly of equal size to that of the other factions. I'm sure it's possible to do that. That I have 2 or 3 units that are still overlapping doesn't mean that must always happen.
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paradox was planned with an engine capable of doing transformations/abilities nevertheless the fact that they had 4-5 tiers - for example their Confeds had two war factories with one producing strictly experimental high-tier units only. They could easily introduce new roles without going beyond Crippling Overspecialization - which you cannot do even with Ares, unless you expand Rock-Paper-Scissors with Lizard and Spock.

Also Paradox design was that high tier units shall completely replace low-tier units, which also adds to unit blob. OTOH, last time I checked Paradox didn't got completed at all and the devs are running an FPS instead.

Keep in mind that this engine is heavily macro-focused and only SAGE and beyond allows you to create dozens of abilities which rewards you for microing a macro unit.

And this is my last post regarding this. because it all comes down that you're indeed retarded since you don't listen.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... that's an interesting point, with those abilities.
The tier mechanics are easy enough to do with Ares' Prerequisite.Negative now and infact I have implemented them in some parts. But the abilities can't be re-created.

So you think I should maybe migrate to Generals or RA3 then?
Infact, much of my mod already exists in redundant GEN coding, for just this situation.

Also yes, Paradox got cancelled, but as to why, I'm at a total loss.

No, I'm not retarded, I just think I know better than anyone else how I want my mod to look and play. You are not going to convince me to spend 5+ years to learn voxeling before I'm allowed to progress on anything else in my mod. You are also not going to convince me that something is fundamentally wrong with the unit arrays of my factions (numbers, roles, etc). Some units may get removed or replaced because there are issues with roles and balancing and unit "feel". I believe in that regard I have some things that I can learn from comments here, but I'm not going to do a generic, standardized 5inf-6veh-2air mod (or whatever the "accepted" numbers would be). If I did, I might as well not make a mod at all, because it already exists.

I simply don't do things the way you would like me to, that doesn't mean I'm retarded. Please learn the definition. You are very rude and it's starting to make me angry too. I hope I did not offend you, I am trying to stay polite here. Thank you.
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Atomic_Noodles
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Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paradox got cancelled as they couldn't fit in all the new mechanics they wanted into the RA3 Engine and the engine itself was finnicky for them.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Due to recent criticism at the number of units and possible role overlap, I have progressed with the reduction of redundant units and reduction of total unit number of some factions.
Mainly EA aircraft section was deflated/cleaned up.

* For the Allies, merged the Grenadier into the Marine and the Mortar and Marksman into the Ranger (which now uses a marksman rifle when mobile and a mortar when deployed - pretty much as in... LaoTze's mods? But it seemed to fit.)
* For the Soviets, I removed the Shturmovik, which seems to have drawn the most "particular" criticism. It is removed without replacement, for aerial anti-tank, Soviet players still have the MiG, even if its higher-tier, or they can make do with the Hind at early game. In my mod, the Soviets are meant to be an extremely multi-tech side, having stagnated technologically somewhere in the 60's or 70's at the latest (but in exchange have not collapsed in the 90's), so giving them any of the Soviet/Russian "supertech" from our world, like the PAK FA, doesn't really fit. With the Yak and Il-2 both removed, this leaves just the semi-fictional "Golubtchik" bomber from the World War 2-ish unit selection.  
* Gun Drones were removed - the regular Dragonfly drone carries both missiles and an autocannon, making this unit redundant.
* Strike Drone and Dragonfly were consolidated into one unit, Dragonfly becoming the "name" of the consolidated drone aircraft:



Drone Platform
The Drone Platform has a new graphic:


And some new/updated units:

Ranger

A little like the Pathfinders of Generals as far as their role in combat goes, but stat-wise, they are upgraded GIs. Rangers are always trained on Veteran level. Rangers are stealthed when not moving or attacking on Veteran level, stealthed when not attacking on Elite and always stealthed on Champion. They also self-heal.
* Merged with the Mortar infantry unit now - he will use his rifle when mobile and a mortar when deployed.

Gunner

Yes, this is pretty much the original GI. His main role is to deploy his M60 GPMG to give fire support to the regular riflemen. A far cry from the completely insane 'Para' and 'ParaE' of vanilla RA2/YR, the M60 still offers decent firepower. When not deployed, the Gunner is armed with a submachine gun that inflicts far, faaaar less damage than the GI's main weapon in RA2/YR...
In short, this unit is great for setting up defensive perimeters against infantry, a la WW1 trench warfare, and can even do so from within buildings, but is unsuited for holding off any other kind of enemy.
* Receives reduced damage from bullet weapons when deployed.
* I was undecided whether this unit should go to the Allies or Third Power, then I realized there could be units which - with side-specific graphics - could be available to more than one side. Simple as that, many strategy games do that, so now this unit exists for both factions.

Legionary

I scaled this unit down from the version shown in the OP; powered armor technology seems like something the Eastasians should use, but it doesn't fit for the Allies in the current version. So, this guy is scaled down to human size again. Still uses a laser gun, but no longer has his portable EMP cannon. His armor consists of reflective plates and fired upon with laser weapons, they will be deflected erratically at 50% strength.
* Can be upgraded with solar armor, which absorbs photon energy to power his laser and grants him a firepower bonus when he is hit by a laser beam (lasers will no longer be deflected).

Partisan

Partisans consist of a wide variety of individuals who have opted to fight for socialism, or sometimes just against immediate oppression. The Soviet Union and its client states arm these groups all over the world to further their fight against the other powers, creating numerous brushfire wars. Partisans are the regular starting infantry units of the Chinese Soviet Republic and the Latin Confederation. They are armed with outdated Mosin-Nagant bolt action rifles, and some develop considerable skill in their use, making them quite effective fighters on Elite level. They also carry molotov cocktails to burn down structures, but will fail against fortifications and heavy vehicles.
Elite partisans are given RPG launchers to harass tanks and are also quite adapt at camouflage...

Partisans can only be trained by the Chinese and Confederation. The Soviets may not train them from the Barracks, however, they may access them in one of two ways:
a) Through the Partisan Action 'command ability' (a SW). By selecting a neutral civilian structure, a group of partisans will spawn at its location.
b) By positioning a Propaganda Truck by civilian houses, partisans will periodically emerge from these buildings.
Both methods only work on some maps (those which have the tag "Motherland").
Partisans cannot be directly controlled, but will attack non-Soviet enemies. Enemies will consider them civilians until they attack.

T-55

This old, but sturdy medium tank from the 1950's has for a long time been a favourite export product of the SU, and a popular "gift" to groups aligning themselves with the cause of the revolution, such as the Communist remnants in China and many states in the Arab world. Even Eastasia has a stockpile of these tanks, acquired during campaigns in China against red warlords, although it is uncertain to what extent these have been dissembled for resources - they have certainly never been seen fielded in action.
The T-55 has subtle disadvantages compared to its successor, the T-62 (the first vehicle that could be called an MBT), such as a lower caliber gun.
Although on a modern battlefield, the T-55 cannot hold its own, it is still a highly effective, and above all, economical, unit against opponents not quite up to date (or resources) to field modern weapon systems, such as other small states, or insurgents.  
* Inb4 people saying I'm making redundant units, the T-55 will not be available together with the T-62 - it is the basic tank of the Chinese SSR and the Confederation, while the T-62 is unique to the Russians. It will also be part of some regional forces in missions.
* Like the T-62, the T-55 can be "dissembled" to repair other nearby vehicles, taking some damage in the process.

T-62

Once an innovative medium tank design, the T-62 is slightly outdated now, but it is still used by the Soviets for rear-guard operations and to exploit gaps made by other units, when using the T-80 or even the Pike would simply be uneconomical. Armed with a 105mm gun and APFSDS shells, the T-62 can still hold its own against anything below a main battle tank. It also serves another function - it is a mobile repository of spare parts for your other tanks...
* Special ability "Dissemble" - triggered by deploying. The T-62 loses some health, but nearby friendly tank units will have some of their health restored.

T-80

A modern MBT, the T-80 is the primary battle tank of the Soviet Union, used in head-on confrontations with other armored forces. Its 125mm gun can tear through all state-of-the-art tank armor. The T-80 also has the ability to launch an ATGM (anti-tank guided missile) through its barrel to engage hostile armor at long range, and usually opens engagements with this feature.
* Elite upgrade is Explosive Reactive Armor - Damage to the T-80 will be entirely negated if it is below a certain threshold.

Baltic Bomber

Affectionately called "golubtshik" (little dove) by its crews, this heavy bomber design, dating to the early 20th century, is used by the Soviets to drop the heaviest of their ordnance - such as the FOAB, and seismic bombs. With several sets of propellers as locomotion, it is rather slow. The large bomb that it is delivering is carried in holding frame and is visible under its belly.
* Based on the real-world Sikorsky Ilya Muromets - heavy anachronism again, I know, but it just seems to fit.
* Enemy aircraft near the Baltic will take damage and be slowed down, due to propeller aircurrents and uhhh... numerous small guns mounted on the airframe.

X-89 Firefly

Called in by superweapon, it will race towards its destination, fire its autocannon as it approaches its target, then slam into it in a nosedive, detonating upon impact.

And the SW to go with it:

Kamikaze Strike

Sends a small rocket aircraft on a terminal dive to the target location.
* Source: Drone Control
* Range: map-wide
* AoE: 3' splash

Flamingo
The heaviest the EA gets in the way of bombers; again, I tried to make this something unique that sets it apart from the other factions. Instead of bombs, the Flamingo drops LEAP drones (which are, essentially, TDs), which start looking for nearby targets when they hit the ground. They blow themselves up against structures, instantly kill non-hero infantry with their monoblade "feet" and attach to vehicles like traditional TD's, slowly sapping the vehicle's health, but now also reducing speed and firepower. Leapers dropped by a Flamingo cannot be manually controlled and will do their own thing as soon as they impact.
* The Flamingo drops these in a line, like a regular bomber. Of course, if the Flamingo's attacks all hit a structure, the drones cannot deploy and will instantly explode, dealing damage like a normal bomb.

Misc
* The Spetsnaz' secondary is now (perhaps only temporarily) decided upon - its a psychotronic weapon which temporarily mind controls any infantry unit, but also deals damage to the controlled unit while the effect lasts, so you have a temporary companion at best in your MC victim.
* The Lynx' gun was changed again - it is now a machine gun.

Also, adressed some minor balancing issues:
* Effectiveness of autocannon vs heavy vehicles and structures was reduced.
* Effectiveness of AP shell vs structures was improved a little again. Consequently, the effectiveness of HEAT (missiles) was also increased. Seems like a basic rule is to give all warheads a flat +30% bonus vs structures simply to cancel out the horrendous advantage of ClickRepair that buildings have over any other type of target.

And some minor reorganization of the INIs.

Currently debating with myself if quake weapons wouldn't make more sense for the EA, since they include Japan (although that would be quite mean-spirited), but they DO have severe shortcomings in the anti-building area. Partially that's intended, but it has gotten very extreme now.

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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... I realized I haven't updated here in awhile, so some recent activity:

Soviet Unit Update

BMP

The BMP is the Soviet infantry transport. It is essentially the IFV from vanilla RA2, except that it can carry 5 infantrymen in addition to the gunner. I found this more fitting, since the actual real-life BMP, the first IFV, was a Soviet invention. The BMP has a 30mm autocannon as main armament when without gunner (can attack both air and ground). Its other occupants can also fire out and are protected from poison gas and sniping, but radiation can still them even inside the vehicle. The BMP is psionically shielded.
Modes are, for the most part, not done yet, and I will do them probably towards the end, when all infantry units have been determined and assigned.

Frost Tank

Quite the opposite of the flame tank, this unit employs a cryogenic weapon, but is otherwise very similar. Infantry attacked by the frost tank will freeze almost at an instant, becoming brittle statues of ice that will shatter at the slightest attack.
* For now, the Frost Tank's "freeze" has the effect of turning its victims into snowmen. I'm planning to replace this with a new, more fitting graphic.
* Explodes into a frosty freezing cloud when destroyed.

Experimenting with "frost" death:

Tesla Tank
Clear similarity with the Tunguska in body and turret (radar dish)

The Tesla Tank is pretty identical to the unit from vanilla YR. Electric bolts now do GREATLY reduced damage against buildings, but to make up for it, will stun their targets with an EMP effect.
* Mainly effective as a short-range tank destroyer now. No more tesla tank rushes are possible, because the damage against buildings is abysmal. Damage against infantry is still high, but that role is hampered by the tank's long recharge timer, giving cheaper groups infantry plenty of time to counter it as it zaps one and then has to wait a good second to charge.
Because of the recent change to Tesla technology, it is not certain if and how this unit will appear in the mod - it will probably not be Soviet at all and is disabled for now.

Quake Tank

The "Hammer" is a non-suicidal M.A.D. tank. It has two attack modes. The first mode fires a directional seismic wave that expands in a conal pattern from the firing unit and is mostly effective against buildings. It has zero effect on infantry. The secondary mode, triggered by double-clicking, will cause the tank to periodically fire a self-centered circular seismic wave that will harm anything around it in a wide area. Either mode is completely unable to hurt infantry and hurts vehicles only very moderately. It is devastating against structures, with the level of damage going up with the 'heaviness' and size of the structure.
* Ore is sometimes dug out and spawns at the attack locations of the Quake Tank!
* The seismic wave has no limit to the amount of cells of a single building that it can hit, each time dealing separate full damage to each cell. That makes it more and more deadly with the size of a building.
* The Eastasian 'paper' armor type is almost immune to this unit's damage, making Eastasia more resilient in sieges (which is that side's hat).

Hind

The Hind returns as the Soviet heli gunship, with a secondary transport function. Hinds are armed with a chaingun and a set of unguided rockets and will alternate between firing salvos of both at any ground target they engage. The Hind can also pick up any single vehicle short of superheavy tanks and above, and carry it over land and sea.

Eastasia Unit Update

Shikari
* Primary now gets a cluster effect on elite.
* Changed secondary to web gun. Moved deployable sentry turrets to Kusanagi (hero).

Colibri

For this unit, I was really undecided what a unique and faction-fitting weapon could be. I thought about monowire-net launchers or weapons that deploy sentry guns or L.E.A.P. mines on the ground... but all of those seemed unfitting for a basic gunship or used elsewhere. The Colibri is now in with a SWARM launcher, tentatively, and I hope that's okay and unique as a weapon system. It does get a special though - it can toggle between Split and Airburst detonation modes for its missiles.
* Type: Gunship
* Requirements: HeliPad
* Cost: 900$
* Weapons: Chaingun, SWARM
* Special functions: Manual control increases ROF, Can toggle between Split and airburst fuse modes.
* To avoid anti-aircraft fire, the Colibri has the ability to land on both land and water and tilt its missile launcher towards ground and air targets while on the ground. It cannot use its chaingun while on the ground and is unfortunately entirely immobile (yes, this is actually an AircraftType, not a deploying JJ vehicle).

Misc

Begun implementing a more interactive battlefield

Outpost

The old Tech Outpost has been removed, instead the Army Tent has become this structure.
It is encountered in-game in three ways:
* Allies may construct it, using a Dozer. It is even available before constructing a Con Yard, or if the Con Yard has been lost.
* Soviets can deploy it from a Mobile Outpost vehicle.
* It is encountered as a capturable map structure.

Outposts provide a small build radius and enable T1 defenses. They can also train a side's basic infantry (GI, Conscript, Trooper, Feday, Footsoldier) and are qualified drop-off points for certain paradrop reinforcements. If a neutral Outpost is captured, the player may instead train Mercenaries here, unique neutral infantry.
(I'm not sure yet if captured Outposts should serve as training centers for the capturer's basic infantry, or rather train mercenaries for any side)

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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Defense Revision
Asian Alliance has received a playstyle overhaul (actually it was more of a gradual evolution away from the previous concept). I found the idea of "Great Wall" line defense was less and less compatible with their technology and lack of decisive firepower of their weapons. It also had too many crossovers with the Allied form of defensive playstyle.

So, instead, they are still a "tower defense" oriented faction, but their defense is about attrition warfare now, relying on concealment and ambushes, with damage-dealing terrain modifications, cloaked turrets and use of tunnels, oriented mainly along the style used by the Japanese, Vietnamese and Koreans against the US in their respective wars. This forms a more recent and applicable style of "east asian warfare" than the medieval example of the great wall that informed my previous playstyle concept for this faction. Combined with their post-modern/cyberpunk technology level, this "cyber-guerrilla" style means lots of hidden sentry guns, rather than the manned spiderholes of the Vietnamese, for example.

Consequently, the Eastasians will also not have walls, or gates. Their defensive "wall" structure can be passed by their own forces in any location (negating the need for seperate walls and gates), and can even be crossed by the enemy, but will deal damage to enemy units crossing over it.

After some historical research, I've also come to the conclusion that the Soviets should probably use field defenses much more than they do now, and so they will also get some more defensive weapons back, but will still play "defense in depth", with defenses mainly oriented at helping their own forces destroy the enemy, rather than being able to destroy them themselves (ie barricades to funnel tanks, and occupyable bunkers to shelter infantry and tanks - pretty much like in vanilla YR actually).
This is very similar to the attrition concept used by the Eastasians, but unlike them, the Soviets will not make any nod whatsoever towards concealment - their defenses will be readily visible and rely on firepower rather than suprise and subterfuge.

Third Power will receive basic gun turrets (removed from the Allies), in addition to some unique variants of turret. This side was meant to be the least defense-oriented, but I can't get around using such interesting concepts as Leech and Tractor turrets...
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Zengar_Zombolt
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Joined: 30 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
Paradox got cancelled as they couldn't fit in all the new mechanics they wanted into the RA3 Engine and the engine itself was finnicky for them.


As Someone who worked with the Paradox team, This is true. RA3 is flexilbe in some aspects, but hard coded like nuts in other.

Paradox stopped working on RA3 months before they announced the Cancel, that's how much of Square peg/round hole it was.

Almost took the RA3 modding community with them. Only a RA2 Remake, a RA2 remake and a Tiberium mod remain.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like the modding community has gotten very small past Generals... post-GEN games certainly don't have the community size that existed for TS/RA2 like 10 years ago. Don't know what it is... less customizable games, or what. But if a single mod made up pretty much all of the RA3 modding community, that's pretty bad.
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badbully
Grenadier


Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Location: between heaven and hell "the healln point"

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is your mod public mod? as I didn't see a page of it on moddb.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, public. I don't think at this stage it's worth a moddb page yet Smile I didn't even get hosted here yet and currently I'm just tinkering with lots of small stuff. I might get a page when I have more to show for it.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An update!
Some progress on the Brotherhood vehicles. I know the graphics are not very up-to-date and they will eventually be replaced, however there are VERY many options for trike and buggy voxels, so that I was not able to decide yet which one to use!

Trike

The simple Trike is a vehicle many other factions would not even consider for reconnaissance duties, but its' low cost, widespread availability and cross-country capabilities make it an obvious choice for the Brotherhood, with its strapped logistics and permanent shortages of modern weapon systems. Intended for scouting, anti-infantry interdiction and hit-and-run tactics, the Trike comes with a machine gun that is unable to dent heavy armor or buildings, but is deadly against infantry and decently effective against other light vehicles. Seasoned Trike drivers often request their mechanical mounts to be upgraded with a variety of salvaged weapons, but because the light frame of the vehicle is easily tipped over by weapons with substantial recoil, such weapons are usually limited to grenade launchers.  The Trike has a second seat for an infantryman of Size 1, who can lend his firepower from inside to assist the vehicle in combat.
* Elite upgrade is a grenade launcher (fired as opener and interspersed with machine gun bursts).
* Trike has +20% Speed in Desert terrain and rocky ground, but -20% in Temperate grasslands, unless traveling on roads.
* Nitro Boost temporarily increases this unit's Speed by 100%, but deals damage over time.

Buggy

The simple Buggy's usefulness in warfare has been recognized even by the US military, who field these vehicles in their special forces. Not quite as special, but of high utility to their commanders, are the rusty jigsaw dune buggies of the Brotherhood. This unit is a quad with large, soft wheels that allow it to cross sandy terrain with ease. Its' immense speed can be further boosted by using the Nitro Boost command ability from the Scrapyard. The Buggy has an autocannon that can be fired on both air and ground targets, making it an effective hunter of light to medium vehicles and a defense against fixed-wing aircraft. It is still unable to go toe to toe with even a light tank, but its' low price means that you will often have the weight of numbers on your side.
The Buggy has one additional seat, allowing an additional crew member to lend his firepower in combat.
The Buggy's driver and potential other crew members are unprotected by the vehicle's skeletal frame, meaning that most battlefield hazards are lethal to its' occupants.
Seasoned Dune Buggy crews often upgrade their mechanical mounts with a variety of salvaged weapons. Because the vehicle's light frame would easily be tipped over by weapons with substantial recoil, such armament is limited to grenade launchers, light recoilless rifles and anti-tank rockets, whenever they are available. Further, light armor plates are often bolted onto the Buggy's frame, together with a more powerful engine to make up for the plating's additional drag.

* Has +20% Speed in Desert terrain.
* Elite upgrade is a rocket barrage (fired as opener and interspersed with machine gun bursts).
* Nitro Boost temporarily increases this unit's Speed by 100%, but deals damage over time.

And Third Power unit update:

Railgun Tank

While many of the Third Power's technologies are barely understood by the other factions, the railgun is a somewhat mundane concept that the Eastasians and, to a lesser extent, the Allies have a pretty solid grasp on. However, no faction has fielded this kind of weapon in a specialized vehicle to make full use of its' fearsome power on land. And there are reasons for that - railguns have a rather complex firing mechanism and require long barrels connected to a power source to accelerate their projectile. A railgun of a size that make full use of a heavy vehicle mount has its downsides: slow and cumbersome, with a prohibitively slow turret traverse and nonexistent barrel elevation or depression, the Railgun Tank is a highly specialized vehicle (as all Third Power units) which serves mainly as a tank destroyer and can meet almost any ground vehicle on equal footing, penetrating not only armor, but entire vehicles, tearing through armored columns. However, it is woefully inadequate when faced with infantry - although the tank is relatively flat, the gun's altitude is well above the head of a human being who makes but a half-hearted attempt at crouching, and as devastating as a penetrating hit is on a vehicle, drilling a hole into the wall of a building rarely causes an entire factory complex to collapse into rubble.
* Like all railgun weapons, the Railgun Tank's railgun deals linear damage.
* Almost useless against infantry, especially when infantry is taking cover.
* Elite railgun tanks can kill the crew of an opposing vehicle if the target's HP are in yellow.

Note:
This tank is maybe only a temporary addition to the Third Power, because I am currently uncertain if railguns deserve their own distinct unit, or if railgun technology should not rather be a Universal Upgrade to the faction, granting railgun weapons to the Tank Destroyer, Mammoth Tank and perhaps some other units, when researched. This is a common issue I'm having with some other technologies as well, for example laser weapons for the Allies - should there be a laser tank as a distinct unit, or should laser technology be an upgrade that grants a laser weapon to the Abrams Tank? I believe these should be distinct methods based on the faction (e.g. Allies upgrade their units via technology, while Third Power gets distinct units rather than upgrades), but that concept is still in its' infancy and I have no idea what method to give to which faction.
And so on... :O
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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:


Buggy




You could have atleast detailed  and normalized the voxel before decided use! No quality control AGAIN... Rolling Eyes

This is just bad PR you do for yourself (comes with public mod...) and you wonder why ppl think your not so bright...

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PillBox20
Commander


Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to avoid that, but ApolloTD is right. Even a list of paper would have some texture. I can show you how to do it, if you ask me. :/
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Trike and Buggy graphics are placeholders. Only the railgun tank has a definite voxel for now.

Here is the Bomb Buggy:

No lengthy flavour text this time (yet), sorry! While the Brotherhood also gets a slew of Bomb Trucks, those are rather slow can be picked up by enemy units well in advance, scoring hits only in an ambush situation or against unguarded flanks of bases, making them mostly siege weapons. Meanwhile, the Bomb Buggy, like the other vehicles of its' class, is very fast, making it a tank hunter, giving it a greater capability to close the distance to enemy armor before an effective counter can be mounted. Of course, Bomb Buggies have overall lower damage output and a much narrower area of effect than Bomb Trucks.
* Bomb Buggies carry nuclear bombs on Elite. Because Bomb Buggies cannot crush on Rookie and self-destruct upon attacking anything, the only way to score veterancy is by collecting Experience crates, and perhaps by some SW I will add at some point. Just like Bomb Trucks, because it is so hard to get these units to a promotion, I made the promotion worth it.
* This vehicle is also eligible for Nitro Boost, increasing its' Speed. But watch out! It is _very_ fragile due to its' explosive load, giving you only a brief time to bring it home to the enemy before Nitro's DoT destroys it, which leads to a catastrophic failure if you have not yet made it to a safe distance away from your own units...
* Deploy the Bomb Buggy to disguise it as a terrain object.
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badbully
Grenadier


Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Location: between heaven and hell "the healln point"

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
The Trike and Buggy graphics are placeholders. Only the railgun tank has a definite voxel for now.

Here is the Bomb Buggy:

No lengthy flavour text this time (yet), sorry! While the Brotherhood also gets a slew of Bomb Trucks, those are rather slow can be picked up by enemy units well in advance, scoring hits only in an ambush situation or against unguarded flanks of bases, making them mostly siege weapons. Meanwhile, the Bomb Buggy, like the other vehicles of its' class, is very fast, making it a tank hunter, giving it a greater capability to close the distance to enemy armor before an effective counter can be mounted. Of course, Bomb Buggies have overall lower damage output and a much narrower area of effect than Bomb Trucks.
* Bomb Buggies carry nuclear bombs on Elite. Because Bomb Buggies cannot crush on Rookie and self-destruct upon attacking anything, the only way to score veterancy is by collecting Experience crates, and perhaps by some SW I will add at some point. Just like Bomb Trucks, because it is so hard to get these units to a promotion, I made the promotion worth it.
* This vehicle is also eligible for Nitro Boost, increasing its' Speed. But watch out! It is _very_ fragile due to its' explosive load, giving you only a brief time to bring it home to the enemy before Nitro's DoT destroys it, which leads to a catastrophic failure if you have not yet made it to a safe distance away from your own units...
* Deploy the Bomb Buggy to disguise it as a terrain object.


keep on the good quality.

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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Third Power Sonic Tank

This tank's weapon uses intense, focused soundwaves to deal with its' opponents. Because resonating vibrations are proportional with the hardness of a material, they are much more effective against hard, but brittle material, and show diminished effectiveness against soft targets. This means that they can easily collapse solid brick or concrete structures, but are relatively less effective against structures of wood and dirt. Tank armor ranks somewhere in between, as steel is actually quite flexible. Flesh, of course, is quite soft, however human bone is not, and while the human body is surprisingly resilient to sheer overpressure, capable of surviving up to 40 pounds per square inch, there are many delicate organs, such as the lungs and eardrums, which are quite fragile and vulnerable to the rapid alterations in air pressure - which is what sound essentially is.
* Has to stop completely to fire. Its' sonic cannon generates a standing wave that deals linear damage continually while attacking a target.
* Deals more damage if the target has heavier armor, and less if it has lighter (or no) armor.
* Units in the wake of the sonic cannon will be left dizzy and disoriented for awhile (even if the actual damage is miniscule), causing them to move much slower, take more damage, and fire their weapons with reduced effectiveness.
* When this unit is destroyed, its' sonic crystal will explode violently, releasing all the stored sonic vibrations.
* Sonic Tanks of the same side cannot damage each other, allowing you to cluster them together when firing. Beware, however, that any other unit in their firing line, even friendly ones, will suffer damage.
* Eastasian nano-engineered crystalline alloys, for all the damage they can withstand, are QUITE brittle and exposure to any sonic damage will lead to catastrophic failure.

Other notes:
* EA Aircraft Revision - Hm. I'm currently re-considering aircraft assignment for the Asian Alliance. I'm considering letting them keep only the Falconine Air-Assault Suit (ie a mecha, which replaced the Colibri gunship) and Dragonfly Drone, but making the Airship part of a SW. The airship (Frigate) would then be called in to bombard an area for a minute or so. It would have massive HP (in the order of multiple 10k), represented by force fields, but could be made to retreat early by depleting its' shields. Alternatively, this SW could be used for Third Power (which also has an airship and several space-faring units), or even Allies (for the OLYMPIC Command Helicopter). Soviets and Brotherhood are the only factions which have no suitable airforce.
* Started implementing Third Power structures (they are still lacking their own distinct graphics).
* I'm not sure where to put all the cool bioweapon/mutation things Yuri had. They are much too cool to pass up on, but they also don't seem to fit any existing side.
Third Power, maybe? Evil science is their thing, but they're more about steel and rayguns than biological experiments.
Eastasia? Sure, WW2 has enough precedent of Japan using bioweapons, they fit a jungle setting, and the more advanced types clearly would make for great cyberpunk-y weapon systems. However, EA seems so "clean" right now and mostly focused on drones and cyberwarfare. Grafting bioweapons into their portfolio would be a major rewrite.
Soviets or Brotherhood spring to mind. I don't think the Brotherhood would have the technological base for mutagenic weapons (although certainly for primitive bioweapons), but the Soviet Union is worth considering.
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badbully
Grenadier


Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Location: between heaven and hell "the healln point"

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
Third Power Sonic Tank

This tank's weapon uses intense, focused soundwaves to deal with its' opponents. Because BLA BLA CUT .

well it is good but you can choose higher quality with moder u realeased voxels

CHECK YOUR MASSEGE INBOX "PRIVATE MASSEGE" "PM"
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already replied to you... Smile
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another text-only update...

I have figured out how to implement Grenadier and Rocket infantry for the Asian Alliance (which I both wanted for that faction, but could not find a good way to implement).

I felt that having a guided missile infantry for the Asian Alliance would make it too similar to the Allied Javelin Missilier and somehow abandon the "fireworks rocketry" concept that seems to be a Chinese clichee (and hence fitting for Eastasia), even if their infantry did something fancy, such as firing multiple small missiles, or split up into additional missiles.

On the other hand, an unguided rocket infantry would be too similar to the Soviet RPG Conscript and also make the Grenadier redundant - if you have two infantry units which fire arcing, explosive projectiles, but one has a greater range and AA capacity, you go for the latter. All the Rocket Infantry could be, then, would be an upgrade tier of the Grenadier.

Finally, a "typically Japanese" weapon of WW2 were light infantry mortars and rocket mortars. This also demanded that the Asian Alliance should have a mortar-like unit - which would also have rendered Grenadiers and explosive-rocket infantry redundant.

So, I had to combine all of these into one unit: a unit that is a grenadier, uses explosive rockets AND is a mortar.

I have gone back to the Firelancer concept and revised it a little to roll the concepts into it:  

Firelancer
[Image will be added]
The Firelancer is an Askari equipped with a supply of pyrotechnical devices. While in mobile form, he uses a supply of hand-thrown explosives that are effective against infantry and structures.

When deployed, he switches to a rocket mortar. He can fire his rockets at ground and air targets over long distances and, because of their high trajectory, he is is capable of bombarding enemy infantry behind walls or in trenches.
His ability to fire over walls means he will perform well in a layered defensive line. None of the rockets are guided however. He can also plant bombs on buildings, including friendly buildings. These bombs inflict little structural damage, but knock out nearby infantry.
* HP: 125
* Cost: 350$300$
* Equipment: thrown explosives, explosive rockets, rocket mortar tube, matches, fireproof gloves

* Rockets burst into a (short-ranged) shower of smaller charges on impact. When exploding in the air, these spread in a small radius, adding AoE, but detonate before reaching the ground.
* Elite upgrade is increased cluster count on rockets and grenades, and non-elemental (Super) damage.
* Each exploding rocket grants nearby forces a morale bonus, increasing their stats briefly. This effect stacks from multiple rockets.
* Enemy units suffer the opposite effect, being struck with fear. Animals will suffer the greatest negative effect.
* Rockets now universally inflict negative effects, due to blinding. They are also incinerating, setting buildings and trees on fire.
* This unit has unintentionally become similar to the Ashigaru Bombardier from Paradox!
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PillBox20
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Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't mind to add the TS Disc Thrower in my mod, if the projectile didn't
climbed then go for the target. It would have been pretty good use of the "grenadier" idea.
(homing disc-grenade that does splash damage or bounces to different targets before it finally explodes)
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have something like that already, it's a "smart shuriken" used by the ShadowHand (ninja unit). But it's true, float-bouncing projectiles in the TS style are not possible in RA2, I had to use animation exploits.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Tentative concept of implementing India as a side!
Dark saffron areas are core territories, lighter shaded areas are contested/vassals/allies/...
The color for this side would, of course, be saffron, the color associated with Hinduism and also Indian nationalism.

Indian Confederacy
- Cost for each additional structure of a type is reduced, except for base defenses and construction yards.
- Refinery stores +40% ore
- +15% income per bail of ore
- Heavy vehicles are 15% cheaper

All concept only!
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I have told some of you, I will be without access to Red Alert 2 (and internet) for the time being. I will get back to reliably working on, and posting, game updates in December.

Until then, I have taken the time to work out the background story of my mod some more. There are many contradictions and unresolved issues still, ranging from the actual time period of the mod (1950s? 2010s? - it really is that bad!) to the state of affairs in Europe, the fate of the Soviet Union, the origins of the Third Power, and other things.

If anyone here likes writing (perhaps has some experience with althistory, NationStates, or just generally working on concepts for mods (lefthand!?)), maybe you would like to contribute some ideas? I do not expect fully-written articles (although I appreciate them), sketchy ideas and notes would do entirely.

Likewise, if anyone would like to contribute some 'fluff' artwork (that is, not actual in-game art, but concept art, promos, sketches, maps, logos, whatnot), that would also be appreciated. Some of it may end up being used in-game, too, and at the very least, it provides some basis to build interesting in-game assets on.

And, again, anyone wanting to contribute actual game assets is very welcome too, but there is no need for me to mention that again.

If anyone is interested, please post here (or PM me) and we can get to talk!
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm currently contemplating, within the framework of setting the timeframe of the mod into the early 21st century and hence a post-modern tech setting (as opposed to having it take place in the mid-to-late 20th century, as I have considered before), that maybe the Soviet Union is misplaced in the setting. Although it is interesting to consider a Soviet Union that never collapsed and went on into a "cyberpunk" era, I think there are other ideas that could be explored.

An idea I had was to introduce the Novaya Rossiya theme from Empire Earth, which has also appeared in a few other fictional settings in roughly similar form (World War Z) - an aggressively expansionist Orthodox theocracy that rises to control Russia.



On the plus side, the timeframe of the mod is now fixed, which means that the army lists will see revisions to remove anachronistic units/weapons (especially the Soviet list has received criticism in that area).

Also, this settles the question of the previously-uncertain Soviet (now Russian) sub-factions:
I imagine that there will be two subfactions,
- one representing the large and somewhat out-dated regular Russian military, with hardware corresponding mostly to the already-posted Soviet army list (minus anachronistic units)
- and one representing the Black Guard, an elite "core" military of religious zealots who act mostly in the function of the Soviet "Commissar" units within the regular military (and can be trained by the regular military sub-faction in much the same way as the Commissar was before), but can also take to the field as an entire army in itself, not attached to regular military units. The Black Guard uses very up-to-date weaponry for a cyberpunk/post-modern tech army, such as railgun snipers, laser guns, etc, but will also have a slant towards reckless, fanatical destructive force, using infantry armed with tactical nukes, and the like. All in all, they will probably be somewhat like Nod, not least of all in their color scheme.

On that note, the Soviet (now Russian) color scheme will be changed entirely, from sandy/beige to a darker olive camo color, making it more realistic.

There is an unresolved issue in that I am uncertain how exactly the Soviet Union collapsed in Continuum - either it did through the same economic pressures that caused the collapse in our world (and the snowball's chance of someone being elected who opts to voluntarily dismantle the Union - if that doesn't happen, the economic collapse may take substantially longer, if it happens at all), or, more interesting, the end may come about through a limited nuclear war, likely with the Allies, but that plot element would have repercussions on other parts of the fictional world that I do not yet have accounted for. Either way, the collapse of the Soviet Union would lead to a "lost decade", maybe two, like the "wild years" in our timeline's Russia, in which oligarchs (in the case of economic collapse) or warlords (in the case of nuclear-war collapse) partition Russia and thread on the population, before in one way or another, the new religious movement takes power in the country.

There are also a few plot issues that come with this change:
- Why would a fervently conservatively Christian Russia continue to support the socialist organizations in the Middle East and Latin America?
- Why would they continue to support the Communist Chinese remnants in Mongolia, the Amur region and Xinjiang? Should these remnants be part of Continuum at all and regardless of this important difference, or do they rather belong to the previous "1950s" concept? It is clear that, without support, they could not long have survived against Eastasia.
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Last edited by Millennium on Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea what the rest of your concept is about so this might be out of context, but I could imagine a christian (I don't know how much the orthodox church did this, I'm mostly think of catholic) faction could still "support" the socialist organisations if they considered them to be heathens that could be brought into the fold and also maybe thinking they're easily controllable and therefore useful political assets. They could continue to work with them for political reasons, but also because they're the dominant nation in the relationship, they might be able to export religion and culture via trade, diplomacy, the positive propaganda an alliance brings etc.

Basically exactly what christian organisations do in the real world. #Tongue  I don't know much about the orthodox church though so maybe it's hyper inward focused and would rather take a "principled" stand.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think you are right to an extent... there are few (any?) absolutes in the political/diplomatic sphere. Russia in our world is no longer the Soviet Union, yet it has maintained good ties with leftist Latin American states, with China, and with Arab states that it had ties to during the Soviet Union. These ties are maintained now even though BOTH parties do not have their previous political/economic ideology anymore.

I believe that this is because alliances are always good to have, and best/easiest to have with people you were friends with for a long time.

So, it is somewhat acceptable.

Another unit-related announcement:

Sukhoi Su-25

Curiously, although they were an accepted part of RA3: Paradox (http://paradox-modfanmadebackup.wikia.com/wiki/YaK_Dive_Bomber, http://paradox-modfanmadebackup.wikia.com/wiki/Shturmovik_Attack_Plane) next to far more futuristic devices than appear in Continuum, the Yak and Shturmovik drew much criticism for being anachronistic in the setting of Continuum (even before I fixed the timeframe of the mod to the 21st century very recently). This may be because Paradox is overall more "ahistorical", despite having a clearly-defined timeline, or because its designers were better able to explain the presence of these WW2 aircraft in Paradox' Soviet arsenal (although the technology is far more advanced in RA3, it does nominally take place at an earlier date, perhaps making WW2 units seem more "credible"). Whatever the cause, I have decided to go along with the criticism provided by previous posters in this thread and roll both the Yak and Shturmovik into a more modern jet ground-attack plane, the real-life Sukhoi Su-25 "Frogfoot".
Great! Less coding for me, and also less need to look for suitable graphical assets!
I have not yet decided what weapon this aircraft could use that would differentiate it from the Allied A-10 "Warthog".

In the same move, I have also decided to pull the almost completely fictional WW1-era (!) "Baltic" bomber from the Soviet arsenal without replacement. This limits the Soviets to the Tu-16 "Badger" strategic bomber for all of their air-dropped ordnance. It should be entirely sufficient for this purpose.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://vk.com/martial_music
Potential inspiration for post-atomic Russian in-game music...

Also, I figured out the previously uncertain relationship between cybernetics and poison/radiation.
I was not sure if cyborgs should be damaged fully (seeing how they have integral organic components), not be damaged at all, or damaged by half (to symbolically represent their half-man/half-machine nature).
I figured out that, in practice, this would depend on the nature of the cybernetic augmentation - a person with a mechanical hand would be just as endangered in their vital functions by poison or radiation as any other purely organic human. But if the right components are replaced, the body may become pronouncedly more resistant to environmental pathogens. While I'm not sure yet how exactly I will handle Radiation damage, I have decided that poison and virus damage/effect will vary across the different units that happen to be cyborgs, because they may differ in their particular augmentation.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Making progress in the implementation of the Black Guard subfaction:


LoadFlag (old version)


Revised "orthodox"-themed version.
Of course, the Soviet logo still has to be edited out and replaced with something consistent with Novaya Rossiya.

Black Guard Army List
* Engineer
* Penitent
* Confessor
* Flame-eater
* Biohazard Infantry
* Atomic Infantry
* Ghost
* Volkov
* Supply Truck
* Harvester
* BMP
* Tunguska
* Laser Tank
* Stealth Tank
* Railgun Tank
* Psycho Tank
* Flame Tank
* Frost Tank
* Virus Tank
* Cyborg Tank
* ICBM
* Hind
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