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Command & Conquer: Continuum [ARES]
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lefthand
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps you've corrected some of these, but I'll post...

Concerning the Creation of Units

1) Avoid Redundancy. Make a word document and start listing the purpose of the units you have brainstormed. Describe their roles as plainly as possible (i.e. anti-armor, anti-infantry, etc..) and see how many similarities you have. If you start to have too many units doing the same thing, you should assign them to other roles or remove them. As an example, flame tanks and flame infantry practically serve the same function and only one should be used.

Lastly, making a word document to organize your thoughts works wonderfully for modding.

2) Less is Often More. Take 30 units and see how you can fit all those abilities into only 10; all of your new units will now serve many different roles.  For example, having your flak track do anti-air, anti-ground, transport infantry, and capable of detecting cloaked/stealth units provides that unit with many different roles. On the other hand, the German tank destroyer only does one thing; it attacks armor. Between the two, only one is really worth the player to invest in. Also, ask yourself, will any of these units be worth investing in after the player has completely tech'ed up? Will you continue to make light tanks when your recently acquired heavy tanks out perform them in every role?

If we learned anything from Red Alert 3 , it was to make your units serve multiple functions. Even in Red Alert 2, there are some units which are practically useless since they can only do one thing.

3) Be Original. Avoid using real names (i.e. Abrams tank, AH-64) and using the word "tank" so much. I'll admit, the later is sometimes hard to avoid, but give your vehicles original sounding names. A quake tank can become a "seismictron", a flame tank is called an incinerator, a stealth tank can be known as a phantom, and etc.. Essentially, they can still appear and feel like tanks, but don't use the word tank so frequently.

I hope this helps, and good luck with your mod!

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Speeder
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Czechia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:

* Laser Tank
* Stealth Tank
* Railgun Tank
* Psycho Tank
* Flame Tank
* Frost Tank
* Virus Tank
* Cyborg Tank


Oh god. What Tank do they NOT have?
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty - any regular combat tank, for starters Smile Ie no ordinary guns. Nor missiles. Nor quake weapons. Or chemical weapons (which are distinct from virus weapons). Or ECM.  No lights. No heavies. No super-heavies. Nothing with secondary AA function. Nothing that hovers. Nothing that is amphibious. No sonic weapons. No chrono. No plasma. Nothing that can transform.

And so on! Smile

Quote:

2) Less is Often More. Take 30 units and see how you can fit all those abilities into only 10; all of your new units will now serve many different roles.  For example, having your flak track do anti-air, anti-ground, transport infantry, and capable of detecting cloaked/stealth units provides that unit with many different roles. On the other hand, the German tank destroyer only does one thing; it attacks armor. Between the two, only one is really worth the player to invest in. Also, ask yourself, will any of these units be worth investing in after the player has completely tech'ed up? Will you continue to make light tanks when your recently acquired heavy tanks out perform them in every role?

If we learned anything from Red Alert 3 , it was to make your units serve multiple functions. Even in Red Alert 2, there are some units which are practically useless since they can only do one thing.

I think I have not clarified this sufficiently, but there is no need for some (most) units to be worthwhile at high-end, as purchasing certain upgrades (some factions tech up via building structures, others buy unit upgrades directly) will REPLACE older, redundant options with newer ones. For example, the Third Power faction has no less than four tiers of basic infantry and three tiers of basic tank. Specialization is another thing that varies between factions - there are some factions which have highly specialized units, which are expensive, but very effective in their role, while other factions have multi-purpose units that are not really very good at anything.

OTOH, you are right that many of these are redundant or do not fit their sides yet. I use this thread as a sort of brainstorming/development showcase, so many things are still subject to revision. In any case, thanks Smile
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Speeder
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Czechia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
Plenty - any regular combat tank, for starters Smile Ie no ordinary guns. Nor missiles. Nor quake weapons. Or chemical weapons (which are distinct from virus weapons). Or ECM.  No lights. No heavies. No super-heavies. Nothing with secondary AA function. Nothing that hovers. Nothing that is amphibious. No sonic weapons. No chrono. No plasma. Nothing that can transform.

And so on! Smile


Oh thank goodness, I was getting worried a bit.

Do continue.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I... errrr... well, I'm pleased to see that you take an interest in the mod. I'm sure that if you continue to follow this thread (and also read the previously-posted army lists, which were neatly wrapped into colored boxes), you will find further information pertaining to each side's availability (or inavailability) of units.

Thanks for taking an interest! Smile
(and I hope it is not considered rude that I must refer you to previously-posted material for the answer of your question)
(I really like your mod, too!)
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on-topic!

A tank that uses ice as a weapon - a great addition!
But how to theme the weapon? Should it be a "snowball cannon"? A "freeze ray" laser? Or a flamethrower-like stream of cold?
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temp
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 17 Oct 2015

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
More on-topic!

A tank that uses ice as a weapon - a great addition!
But how to theme the weapon? Should it be a "snowball cannon"? A "freeze ray" laser? Or a flamethrower-like stream of cold?


Freeze ray laser of course

call it Frost-fire
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deathreaperz
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Joined: 20 May 2013
Location: Creativity Corp, ID Division

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
* Laser Tank
* Stealth Tank
* Railgun Tank
* Psycho Tank
* Flame Tank
* Frost Tank
* Virus Tank
* Cyborg Tank

Suggestion from me:
* Laserman
* Stealth Viper
* Railblazer
* Alpha
* Dragon Tank
* Blizzard Tank
* Chemsprayer
* TerraBot
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lefthand
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
* Laser Tank
* Stealth Tank
* Railgun Tank
* Psycho Tank
* Flame Tank
* Frost Tank
* Virus Tank
* Cyborg Tank


* Refractor Cannon/Blazer
* Phantom/Specter/Sphinx
* Penetrator/Javelin/Tank Piercer
* Psychotron/Dominatron
* Incinerator/Immolator/Spitfire
* Cyrotank/Cyrotron/Cyro Cannon
* Infector/Pathogen/
* Chimera/Abomination

As you add more features to these units, the more names you can grant these vehicles.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's wrong with the [insert theme] Tank names? Albeit cliché, at least the players will immediately know what they are dealing with. It's a design choice.
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Speeder
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Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Czechia

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Tank" doesn't say much about the unit really.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deathreaperz wrote:
Millennium wrote:

* Laser Tank
* Stealth Tank
* Railgun Tank
* Psycho Tank
* Flame Tank
* Frost Tank
* Virus Tank
* Cyborg Tank

Suggestion from me:
* Laserman
* Stealth Viper
* Railblazer
* Alpha
* Dragon Tank
* Blizzard Tank
* Chemsprayer
* TerraBot


* Laserman sounds like an infantry unit at best, and more like a superhero.
* Stealth Viper - There is no real connection between the trait of camouflage and the animal, nor a connection between the faction and the animal. "Viper" would not be the animal of choice in this tank's name, however if an animal would be found that would have a credible connection to both, it would be a great choice!
* Railblazer - Hmmm... it's worth consideration!
* Alpha - I actually like this!
* Dragon Tank - As per a somewhat-lengthy discussion I had with several other people who are involved (yes, I'm just the 'face' of this mod!), anything named "dragon" is off-limits for unit names. There is a background to this (found in Appendix XVII.c of the Continuum Codex!) but that'd exceed the frame of this post.
* Blizzard Tank - There are actually a_lot_ of cold/ice-related terms from Russian culture that could be used for this unit. The problem here is mostly that it has not been decided yet. The Russian name for "frost" is "moroz" and it plays a prominent role in Russian folklore as "ded moroz", Father Frost, the Russian equiv of Santa Clause. And there is "Snegurochka", the Snow Maiden, another folkloristic figure. It is likely that this tank will be called "Frost Tank", "Snow Tank" or "Winter Tank". Blizzard, OTOH, is an expression mostly used in an American/Western cultural context. Of course, the meteorological phenomenon has a Russian translation, but that translation does not have significant cultural weight in Russia, so there is no special meaning attached to why this name should be chosen.
* Chemsprayer - This is a weapon! And it breaks the distinction between chemical weapons and biological ones!
* TerraBot - Why Terra (Earth)? As for the "-bot", another rule is that any "robot"-related term is not used in Continuum. The proper in-universe word for what we would call "robot" is "automaton", pl. "automata".

lefthand wrote:

* Refractor Cannon/Blazer
* Phantom/Specter/Sphinx
* Penetrator/Javelin/Tank Piercer
* Psychotron/Dominatron
* Incinerator/Immolator/Spitfire
* Cyrotank/Cyrotron/Cyro Cannon
* Infector/Pathogen/
* Chimera/Abomination


* Refractor Cannon - I believe this is a unit upgrade for the Allied Laser Tank... let me check the codex!
* Phantom/Specter - These will be considered! Sphinx not so much, it doesn't fit the side's cultural theme.
* Penetrator is denied for obvious implications, Javelin and Piercer (sans Tank) are definitely options.
* Psychotron is actually the already-semi-official name of this unit Wink Dominatron is denied since it does not actually dominate, it's more of a suppression/excitation device (psychotronic technology in Continuum is not as advanced as in the YR universe).
* Incinerator/Immolator/Spitfire - Spitfire has aircraft implications and I would try to avoid chosing this name. Incinerator and Immolator are options. Which of these do you think would have more of a "religious" context? Novaya Rossiya is an orthodox christian theocracy.
* "Cryo-" is already on the list of possible names for this unit, thanks for adding a vote for it. Smile
* Infector - Sold.
* Chimera - Sold. Abomination not so much, cause that is the term used to designate mutants (and homosexuals) in Russia in the fictional world of Continuum.

Progress report - Cryo Tank

The Cryo Tank's voxel was cobbled together from a Tesla Tank body and a repainted Radiation Tank turret for testing purposes. Perhaps not the final graphic of this unit, but sufficient to try out all four concepts considered for ice-based weapons!

Try #1 - The Freeze Ray!

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lefthand
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
What's wrong with the [insert theme] Tank names? Albeit cliché, at least the players will immediately know what they are dealing with. It's a design choice.


It just gets repetitive. After awhile, you figure, all vehicles in the game are more or less mobile land weapon platforms with tracks.

It would be like having all your infantry units end with "soldier"...rifle soldier, rocket soldier, sniper soldier, and etc.. Plus, you are having to use more text for the cameo.

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lefthand
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium,

I'd encourage you to make some of your "tanks" into just aerial platforms like helicopters. So much of RA2 revolves around land battles that players often concern themselves with only one dimension in the game. This leaves an entire area of the game almost completely unexplored.

The Scrin, from Tiberian Wars, is a great example of this.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might be getting ahead of the development process here, but the word "tank" itself will perhaps be revised in the in-universe terminology, seeing that in our world, it developed from a rather arbitrary cargo label to disguise shipments of the first "landships" during WW1. Even then, not every armored fighting vehicle (especially the more exotic ones) is necessarily a "tank".

In any case, yes, the over-use of "tank" is not a good thing, thank you for bringing this to attention.

As for the avoidance of RL names, I think in some areas this is not possible - while I'm not going to use exact type designations (such as the M-numbers), some things are just the in-universe equivalent of RL hardware - the Abrams Tank does exist, the Apache exists, the Hind exists...

Quote:

Millennium,

I'd encourage you to make some of your "tanks" into just aerial platforms like helicopters. So much of RA2 revolves around land battles that players often concern themselves with only one dimension in the game. This leaves an entire area of the game almost completely unexplored.

The Scrin, from Tiberian Wars, is a great example of this.

This was a great game-play suggestion!
I hope we can find a way to tie it into the technological framework of the factions.
Allies (helicopters) and Third Power (antigrav) would perhaps be the best choice for this.
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Guest_zeta A
Medic


Joined: 18 Sep 2014

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think third side is really an extra,unneeded faction.because germany is in the middle of the europe..so the only arena for the allied-soviet battle is no more.and after hitler deleted from the universe...NSDAP Dissolves.
so the powerful imperial germany without nazis,crushed during the WW1(and maybe crushed during RA1 WW2)is a bit impossible

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Guest_zeta A
Medic


Joined: 18 Sep 2014

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the best way to create a good story for such Complex Universe is division,something like this for example:

  1-1950-70:Allied-Soviet war until the rise of the EastAsia
  2-1970-90:War,War and War which results something like end of Ra3 and after that, tiberium and TW1
  3-1990-2000:Rebellion against Allies in the occupied states(something like RA3:Uprising)and the Allied-NOD war

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

i think third side is really an extra,unneeded faction.because germany is in the middle of the europe..so the only arena for the allied-soviet battle is no more.and after hitler deleted from the universe...NSDAP Dissolves.
so the powerful imperial germany without nazis,crushed during the WW1(and maybe crushed during RA1 WW2)is a bit impossible

Yes... tying this into the setting has become more and more complicated and your comment brings up good points. Ideas to keep the Third Power in the game were that they are an extra-dimensional invasion (from a timeline which has Nazi Germany), or that they were some occultist force from Germany (racist occultists existed in Germany before Hitler, and would have existed without him) who went into hiding, colluding with aliens/outsiders and then come back to take over the world... something like Nazi Illuminati.

These ideas are very pulp-y and kind of break the setting abit.

The only thing that is still keeping the X³ in the mod is that they have a pretty clear codex and lots of artwork already done. They are also a pretty cool "theme" to have, but I agree that they do not really fit the setting anymore and will probably have to go - "kill your darlings", and all.

Quote:

I think the best way to create a good story for such Complex Universe is division,something like this for example:

 1-1950-70:Allied-Soviet war until the rise of the EastAsia
 2-1970-90:War,War and War which results something like end of Ra3 and after that, tiberium and TW1
 3-1990-2000:Rebellion against Allies in the occupied states(something like RA3:Uprising)and the Allied-NOD war


This exists already!
There is a pdf file available with the entire timeline as a developer reference, which I'm currently polishing up to send it to lefthand, but if there is sincere interest, I may just post it here for download as well.
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Guest_zeta A
Medic


Joined: 18 Sep 2014

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This mod will be a BLAST! at least it's perfect for me. I always liked mods with lots of factions...something like WOW,The deceased EA:TD and Dune(by some views:fremen,space guild etc...)and projects Paradox.
And for the tanks:

* Laser Tank : Antares
* Stealth Tank : hallucination
* Railgun Tank : Cleaver
* Psycho Tank : Hysteria
* Flame Tank : Neraka (indonesian for the hell)
* Frost Tank : Khione (greek god of frost)
* Virus Tank : Infectonator
* Cyborg Tank : Blattella (beetles and cockroaches are being used widely in cybernetics)

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a draft of a possible (a little eurocentric) timeline, containing a few somewhat plausible divergences from our universe under the assumption that Hitler never existed (in Continuum, Hitler just never existed, or remained a postcard painter, or whatever - Einstein was not involved. I.e. it is a "traditional" alternate history setting with a "natural" PoD).

There is something that is not contained in this timeline yet, which is a string of terror attacks starting in the 90s, by certain Middle-eastern and African insurgencies (playable as the Brotherhood in the mod, roughly equivalent to the GLA), on targets in Europe and the US. These terror attacks are, of course, equivalent to the Nod terrorist attacks in TD, and also congruent with developments in OTL.
Regarding the status of Arab insurgencies before the 1990s:
It is undecided whether the terrorism of the PLO in our world would also exist in Continuum, as the status of Israel is - to me at least - unclear in the absence of the Holocaust and the resulting migrations and reparations. Without Israel, or at least an Israel capable of militarily beating the neighbouring Arab states, there would be no need for the Arabs to turn to asymetrical warfare. The "Arab Socialists", whose development of the region was stifled in our world by repeated military setbacks against Israel, may go on to be quite successful in the world of Continuum, akin to the Kemalists in Turkey, or perhaps the socialists in India. As you can see, the question of Israel and its influence on the Arab world is unsettled. This is why events surrounding the Arab region have not yet been adapted into the timeline, but it will be updated eventually.


Timeline.pdf
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Guest_zeta A
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Joined: 18 Sep 2014

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's completely clear that Holocaust was just an EXCUSE for the creation of israel, It JUST speeds up it's creation!

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Guest_zeta A
Medic


Joined: 18 Sep 2014

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think changing the name of EastAsia to Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is better to make it more look like an alliance.because if japan conquered this lands,they will their whole empire japan. but Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is more look like an alliance between japanese puppets.
or something like asian alliance

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Guest_zeta A
Medic


Joined: 18 Sep 2014

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then what's your idea about my tank names?

Guest_zeta A wrote:

* Laser Tank : Antares
* Stealth Tank : hallucination
* Railgun Tank : Cleaver
* Psycho Tank : Hysteria
* Flame Tank : Neraka (hell of hinduism)
* Frost Tank : Khione (greek god of frost)
* Virus Tank : Infectonator
* Cyborg Tank : Blattella (beetles and cockroaches are being used widely in cybernetics)

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

* Laser Tank : Antares - Maybe.
* Stealth Tank : hallucination - Denied, I'm going to go with one of lefthand's suggestions.
* Railgun Tank : Cleaver - "cleaving" implies a blade, but a railgun projectile is, and behaves like, a spike.
* Psycho Tank : Hysteria - Maybe.
* Flame Tank : Neraka (hell of hinduism) - Why would a Christian organization name their unit after a Hindu concept?
* Frost Tank : Khione (greek god of frost) - Khione was a goddess, and if any air or naval units with an ice theme are added, this name will be considered.  
* Virus Tank : Infectonator - "Infector" is accepted.
* Cyborg Tank : Blattella (beetles and cockroaches are being used widely in cybernetics) - Taking lefthand's suggestion here, BUT the idea with cockroaches is very interesting and it might be used in the tank's artistic design.
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lefthand
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Joined: 08 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guest_zeta A wrote:
I think changing the name of EastAsia to Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is better to make it more look like an alliance.because if japan conquered this lands,they will their whole empire japan. but Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is more look like an alliance between japanese puppets.
or something like asian alliance


Can you imagine saying Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere every time you mentioned the faction?

...the Allies, the Soviets and the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.

...Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere has light tanks...

...Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is under attack!


I would stick to simplifying it to a single word. Allies, Soviets, Empire and Yuri. GDI and NOD. Zerg, Terrain and Protoss. Etc..

You could use Asian Alliance, but Alliance sounds way too similar to Allies. I would pull out the thesaurus and find something different. I would use something instead like the East Asian Dominion, Eastern Dominion or the Dominion.

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Guest_zeta A
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Joined: 18 Sep 2014

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

* Flame Tank : Neraka (hell of hinduism) - Why would a Christian organization name their unit after a Hindu concept?


what about SATAN ?

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Guest_zeta A
Medic


Joined: 18 Sep 2014

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:07 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote

lefthand wrote:
Guest_zeta A wrote:
I think changing the name of EastAsia to Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is better to make it more look like an alliance.because if japan conquered this lands,they will their whole empire japan. but Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is more look like an alliance between japanese puppets.
or something like asian alliance


Can you imagine saying Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere every time you mentioned the faction?

...the Allies, the Soviets and the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.

...Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere has light tanks...

...Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is under attack!


I would stick to simplifying it to a single word. Allies, Soviets, Empire and Yuri. GDI and NOD. Zerg, Terrain and Protoss. Etc..

You could use Asian Alliance, but Alliance sounds way too similar to Allies. I would pull out the thesaurus and find something different. I would use something instead like the East Asian Dominion, Eastern Dominion or the Dominion.


i think asian dominion is great!really good

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Guest_zeta A
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Joined: 18 Sep 2014

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PURIFIER  Is a good name for flame tank!

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lefthand
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can’t say I’m a huge fan of your concept for Russia, but here it my pitch for you.

I would treat the dissolution of the USSR as something more like CNC General’s GLA then it becoming some kind of uber-nationalist/Orthodox/cyberpunk faction. Three of my objections for it.

1) If Russia is going to be a playable faction, there needs to be one faction that is technologically backwards while the other two represent modernism and futurism. This makes their playstyle more unique.  

2) I find it hard to reason how a nationalist country could even project power abroad. Communism can appeal to every citizen of the world…because it is unifying. On the other hand, simple nationalistic interests are fairly limited in scope. Why would an Islamic/African country cater to the Russian interests?

3) What countries would side with Russia in the game?
Although this would take your mod into another direction, I can see Soviet ideology and weaponry being virally spread across the world. The proverbial Pandora’s Box.

Just like Germany was pacified through foreign occupation because it started two world wars, it would only make sense that Russia would be pacified for aggressively starting two great wars as well. It doesn’t seem likely Russia would be in a position to project power anymore…but it would have already invested heavily in spreading communist ideology and Russian weaponry throughout the developed world.



With Russia out of the picture, lots of third world Soviet leftovers would still exist to harass foreign occupation and counter Allied and Asian influences.  Imagine Libya trying to create a pan-African Union, Iraq would be the epicenter of Arab socialism on both sides of the Euphrates, Cuba exporting Che Guevara-styled insurgency throughout Latin America, and etc..

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Guest_zeta A
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

but an orthodox theocracy after an secular/atheist SUPERPOWER is really impossible.
it can be only possible after a major disaster(zombies,nukes and ...) and under this circumstances, russia can never be a POWER.

on the other side,russian theocracy will be against catholicism/protestantism(the allies) and against islamic brotherhood(and chechens,libya,iraq and central asian republics)
they will be inferior people in the nazist(3rd side) ideology, and they will be against communism. so they will NOT have any International Allies.

But the ULTRANATIONALIST Russia is REALLY possible!

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Millennium
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, thank you for your suggestions! They are really helpful and show much thought and creativity!

lefthand wrote:
Can’t say I’m a huge fan of your concept for Russia, but here it my pitch for you.

I would treat the dissolution of the USSR as something more like CNC General’s GLA then it becoming some kind of uber-nationalist/Orthodox/cyberpunk faction. Three of my objections for it.

1) If Russia is going to be a playable faction, there needs to be one faction that is technologically backwards while the other two represent modernism and futurism. This makes their playstyle more unique.  

This existed. The Russian side is divided into the regular military, which uses hardware for the most part held over from the 80s and consists of a rather heterogenous assembly of conscripts from all over the country's vast geographical expanse (with appropriately doubtful loyalties and morale), and the Black Guard faction, which is a sort of "military police" which uses high-tech weapons and cybernetics to keep the boot on the regular military, but can also be played as a separate army, sharing some of the Russian logistics, but none of their combat units.

Quote:

2) I find it hard to reason how a nationalist country could even project power abroad. Communism can appeal to every citizen of the world…because it is unifying. On the other hand, simple nationalistic interests are fairly limited in scope. Why would an Islamic/African country cater to the Russian interests?

It does not - the Brotherhood/Warlords faction is not aligned with Russia in the mod. It's true that the Latin Confederation faction still is, and we are having problems rationalizing that.

I believe the main motivation for Novaya Rossiya would be to prevent Eastasia gaining territory in the east, to regain the lost European and Central Asian possessions, and to contain Islamic insurgency in the Caucasus and other southern areas. I don't know if these are sufficient motivations. Do you have any suggestions? In OTL, these were sufficient for current conflicts with Ukraine.

As Omegabolt pointed out before, there are other reasons - tradition, economics, political influence - why countries may cooperate even if their ideologies diverged.

Quote:

3) What countries would side with Russia in the game?
Although this would take your mod into another direction, I can see Soviet ideology and weaponry being virally spread across the world. The proverbial Pandora’s Box.

There are socialist factions in the mod - the Latin Confederation is essentially a continuation of the Soviet idea.
Aligning specific countries with Russia would really be taking the mod in a different direction, because, apart from temporary alignments of interest, there are no real "sides" that contain more than one individual country (although these may have sub-factions).

Quote:

Just like Germany was pacified through foreign occupation because it started two world wars, it would only make sense that Russia would be pacified for aggressively starting two great wars as well. It doesn’t seem likely Russia would be in a position to project power anymore…but it would have already invested heavily in spreading communist ideology and Russian weaponry throughout the developed world.




This is interesting. As the timeline says, the collapse of the Soviet Union might as well have been economical. If it was due to military defeat (or economic collapse triggered by military defeat), then this must have surely involved nuclear weapons. I'm not sure what implications an atomic war would have on the other factions - this certainly depends on who was involved and just how limited or unlimited this war was fought. I.e. the West may not have been in the position to occupy/pacify the entirety of Russia. Perhaps the US is in hardly a better shape than Russia, and if Europe is anything like it is in our world, they will rather huddle behind their borders and weather the storm, especially with the US being removed as the dominant protector.

It is clear, however, that Russia did lose some territory as the result of this war - identical to the territory also lost by the dissolution of the SU in our timeline. In this regard, our timeline and Continuum re-align after the collapse of the SU.

Quote:

With Russia out of the picture, lots of third world Soviet leftovers would still exist to harass foreign occupation and counter Allied and Asian influences.  Imagine Libya trying to create a pan-African Union, Iraq would be the epicenter of Arab socialism on both sides of the Euphrates, Cuba exporting Che Guevara-styled insurgency throughout Latin America, and etc..


The idea was expressed during the development process that the Middle East could/should have Arab socialist governments at the start of the Brotherhood campaign (if we ever get to making one). Your comment has made a fairly good point for that idea.
The Brotherhood will certainly be using much Soviet military hardware.

Regarding Eastasia naming revision
It's true, the proper name for this faction is "Asian Alliance", which is an obvious reference to Eagle Red and an apparently-unused WW concept.
"Eastasia" is an in-universe colloquialism, in turn playing on Eastasia from 1984.
I never personally liked using "Alliance" in the name, but it was never bothered to revise it. Now that I hear such great suggestions, I will submit "Asian Dominion" as an option to the rest of the team. I will also suggest "Empire", which just seems a bit more "Asian", but "Dominion" certainly sounds great, and fitting.
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Millennium
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... I believe I will be posting the Factbooks on Novaya Rossiya and Eastasia (Dominion, Empire, ...) next, once I have compiled all the necessary information.

By the way, lefthand, you don't by chance take commissions for that kind of map graphic?
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Guest_zeta A
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guest_zeta A wrote:
but an orthodox theocracy after an secular/atheist SUPERPOWER is really impossible.
it can be only possible after a major disaster(zombies,nukes and ...) and under this circumstances, russia can never be a POWER.

on the other side,russian theocracy will be against catholicism/protestantism(the allies) and against islamic brotherhood(and chechens,libya,iraq and central asian republics)
they will be inferior people in the nazist(3rd side) ideology, and they will be against communism. so they will NOT have any International Allies.

But the ULTRANATIONALIST Russia is REALLY possible!



Quote:
PURIFIER  Is a good name for flame tank!

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Millennium
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guest_zeta A wrote:
Guest_zeta A wrote:
but an orthodox theocracy after an secular/atheist SUPERPOWER is really impossible.
it can be only possible after a major disaster(zombies,nukes and ...) and under this circumstances, russia can never be a POWER.

on the other side,russian theocracy will be against catholicism/protestantism(the allies) and against islamic brotherhood(and chechens,libya,iraq and central asian republics)
they will be inferior people in the nazist(3rd side) ideology, and they will be against communism. so they will NOT have any International Allies.

But the ULTRANATIONALIST Russia is REALLY possible!

It depends on your definition of superpower Smile But of course, Russia does not have to be a superpower to be a playable faction.

Quote:

Quote:
PURIFIER  Is a good name for flame tank!

Accepted.

Regarding further suggestions:
Beyond names, you can also suggest plot/history, weapons, abilities, units and even factions!
You can send them to me via pm or on facebook, too.
You can also use the Scrapbook pages on the mod's wikia for suggestions if you like:
http://continuummod.wikia.com/wiki/C%26C_Continuum_Mod_Wiki

That would leave this thread free for the developers to present their content.
The wikia is not finished yet and might seem a little disordered in some places. If you have any questions regarding where to fit a certain suggestion, please ask.
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lefthand
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium, exactly how many sides are there in this mod? And by sides, I mean, how many separate MCVs will there be in this game?

As far as I know, without modding the EXE, there can only be about three different sides in the game.

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lefthand
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
By the way, lefthand, you don't by chance take commissions for that kind of map graphic?


The previous map was just an old map I privately made about five years ago...I used it because it was better than putting effort into an image that would have never seen the light of day.

Tempting, but I'd probably not take commission unless it was a visual that was extremely complicated.

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Millennium
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, we are using Ares, which means we would be allowed... 64? sides.

The factions are:
* Allies - Split into the US, Europe and Oceania, which share their "MCV" (technically an MCV, but their construction system is a little different).
* Russia - Split into two factions which share their MCV.
* Third Power - Uncertain if this faction will remain part of the game.
* Brotherhood - Split into two factions, which share their MCV.
* Eastasia - Split into an as-of-yet unclear number of subfactions, all of which share one "MCV" (technically an MCV, but their construction system is a little different).
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lefthand
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
Of course, we are using Ares, which means we would be allowed... 64? sides.


64 sides or 64 countries? For the sake of argument, lets say there is 64 sides, wouldn't it become laborious to assign so many new buildings, infantry, EVA and etc. when there really isn't that much available in the community?

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Guest_zeta A
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's your idea about THAT timeline?


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Millennium
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lefthand wrote:
Millennium wrote:
Of course, we are using Ares, which means we would be allowed... 64? sides.


64 sides or 64 countries? For the sake of argument, lets say there is 64 sides, wouldn't it become laborious to assign so many new buildings, infantry, EVA and etc. when there really isn't that much available in the community?


Ah, I was mistaken:
Ares documentation wrote:

In the original game the sides and countries were, for the most part, hard-coded. You could not add to, remove or reorder the 10 countries or 3 sides. Ares, however, makes these tasks possible – you can now have up to 16 fully functional countries and sides, and you can customize these in numerous ways...


Quote:

Certain flags work properly for up to 32 countries, and yet others fail after merely 16 - it is recommended to not have any more than 16 playable countries and 32 total countries. Put the playable countries first in the list, followed by the other countries.


It's actually 16 (or 32), not 64. I guess I was unconsciously continuing the sequence by just doubling the number.

Well, it's not planned to add that many to the mod of course, but it _would_ be possible to add that many.

@zeta_A
Please give me a moment on that one Smile I'll get back to it later.

Cryo Tank experiment update:

Version 2: "Snowball cannon" weapon. Again, this does not use proper graphics (or a proper WeaponFLH setting), but it is just a "test of principle". Would this be preferable to the "cold beam"? Two weapons (cryo-"flamer" and cryo-railgun still have to be tested).
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lefthand
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can’t say I like the idea of having current events, from our timeline, influencing a mod. Plus there is always the issue of originality. Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, Al Qaeda and etc. are best left in our timeline. Use a different name.

Muslim Brotherhood would probably be best titled the Caliphate. Instead of having this faction created by such a localized event in Asia, have it inspired by the desire to reestablish the former Ottoman Empire and I wouldn’t rely so heavily on Islam being their unifying principle.

However, by the time you establish the identity of the Caliphate, it will probably sound too much like the fascist Dominion or the religious neo-Russia. I think each faction’s political leanings should be as unique and easy to identify as their technologies. The Allies favor democracy, the Soviets promoting communism and the Dominion embracing fascism.

And since the Ares engine only supports 3 sides, I wouldn’t bother to add two of the lesser factions in; you’re going to end up coding/collaborating way too much time on something that is playing a small role.

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Guest_zeta A
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Joined: 18 Sep 2014

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lefthand wrote:
Can’t say I like the idea of having current events, from our timeline, influencing a mod. Plus there is always the issue of originality. Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, Al Qaeda and etc. are best left in our timeline. Use a different name.

Muslim Brotherhood would probably be best titled the Caliphate. Instead of having this faction created by such a localized event in Asia, have it inspired by the desire to reestablish the former Ottoman Empire and I wouldn’t rely so heavily on Islam being their unifying principle.

However, by the time you establish the identity of the Caliphate, it will probably sound too much like the fascist Dominion or the religious neo-Russia. I think each faction’s political leanings should be as unique and easy to identify as their technologies. The Allies favor democracy, the Soviets promoting communism and the Dominion embracing fascism.

And since the Ares engine only supports 3 sides, I wouldn’t bother to add two of the lesser factions in; you’re going to end up coding/collaborating way too much time on something that is playing a small role.



I accept it!
I think Brotherhood is better than the muslim one.Something like GLA,NOD OR http://www.moddb.com/mods/command-conquer-devastation/features/faction-info-wing-of-freedom
I THINK GLA AND WOF ARE BETTER THAN NOD.GLA IS ANARCHIST AND WOF IS PEACEFUL.
or something like eco-terrorists

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Millennium
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

And since the Ares engine only supports 3 sides, I wouldn’t bother to add two of the lesser factions in; you’re going to end up coding/collaborating way too much time on something that is playing a small role.


16! 16 fully functional sides!

Also, curious how you bill the Asians as fascist. This was not actually my idea for them (I actually thought of them as one of the more likeable factions). I really need to upload their factbook.

Also:
1) Would anyone like to come up with an idea (or maybe even an asset) for the Cryo Tank cameo? The best I came up with so far is a recolored flame tank icon, maybe someone can think of - and create - something better.
2) The mod's title is an alternate term for the concept of a "timeline", in the sense of an alternate universe. It has been suggested in the team that a timeline needs an identifying number to be added - this practice is common in fiction (e.g. Earth-616 in the Marvel cosmology), and of course this makes sense. Since the mod takes place in a particular timeline, that timeline, too, should have a numerical identifier. Even if that number will not be added to the mod's title, it would be used to refer to the mod's fictional universe. Does anyone want to suggest a number to be added so that we would arrive at a name for the universe of this mod? We could then speak of "Continuum-[number]" as the game's universe, rather than speaking of the "Continuum universe", which is a rather unwieldy term with an obvious redundancy.
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lefthand
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
Also, curious how you bill the Asians as fascist.


Because fascism isn't represented in RA and, in an alternate timeline from ours, it is quite possible that Imperial Japan (fascist) and the Chinese nationalist army (who collaborated with the Japanese sometimes), could have collectively destroyed the Red Army of China. With communism killed in the crib in China, fascism could have reigned over Asia.

Remember, Japan was looking to unify all of Asia from European colonialism.

Quote:
This was not actually my idea for them (I actually thought of them as one of the more likeable factions).


Likeable? I don't like either side being distinctively good/bad.

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Millennium
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose this depends on the definition of "fascism".
I believe that without Hitler, "fascism" would actually be a far more popular philosophy in the West than in OTL. It was a very early progressive movement after all and I can see it continuing to be popular in Continuum's Europe, maybe even America.

Quote:

Remember, Japan was looking to unify all of Asia from European colonialism.

It's true that Japan was trying to do that, and in-universe, they provided the starting-point for the unification process, but they were unable to complete it.

I'm not sure the "fascist" label applies to Imperial Japan and is only usually associated with them because of the side they picked during WW, but this is not my area of expertise. Much less the KMT.
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lefthand
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
I suppose this depends on the definition of "fascism".


I imagine the Dominion as this; has the growing economy of China, the xenophobic culture of Japan and the political structure of North Korea. This isn’t the brightly colored, anime influenced Empire of the Rising Sun nor is it the Soviet Union 2.0 China in Generals.  



The Dominion is an extremely dystopian society; the skyline choked with pollution with neon lights piercing through the veil of unyielding industrialism.



What the East Asian Dominion sees beyond its well protected borders are chaotic barbarians who have just waged three world wars in less than a century. The rest of the world is in fact a threat to itself. The new rising sun of the East foresees itself being destined to provide stability through its control. And how will control be executed? Through complete submission to a strong leader. That strong leader being the Emperor of the Dominion.


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Millennium
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, they are certainly isolationist and cultural-supremacist.
I think your contributions to the concept are great!

Let me explain myself:

The "fascist" label is often applied far too easily to states or groups that have a preference for, or have already created, authoritarian styles of government, while at the same time opposing state ownership of the means of production (ie they do not qualify for the label of Socialist), without the need for any further qualification, ignoring that Fascism is really a very specific social and economic ideology. Rascism and conservatism, two more ideologies that easily earn you the label of "fascist" in OTL do not follow, or are even opposed to, fascism.

What I meant by "likeable" is this:
In the in-game world, the Eastasians are one of the factions who are least likely to create animosity by imperialistic ambitions.

They feel superior on a cultural, perhaps even racial, basis, but they are isolationist within their own ground. Of course, transgressing the boundaries of that ground will draw their ire. There may be substantial friction with Russia, but for example, they would never invade countries half a planet away (Iraq).
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lefthand
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.
When I think of isolationism, I think of a society that wants to keep itself away from the world. The Dominion, on the other hand, sees the world for its taking. It has no plans to assimilate to the norms of an international community.

These are some of the fascist qualities of the Dominion.



Cult of Tradition –For their perspective, Asia was not conquered by the barbarians, it was that Asia succumbed to the vices and decadence of their Western invaders. The Dominion has looked to the past to find its strengths by rejecting the concepts of democracy, communism and capitalism. This is why it has returned back to a monarchy, an Emperor.

Racial Supremacism – The Dominion is unifying countries under a single genetic banner. Asia is for Asians and the world must be guided by them. Citizenship is only granted to those of said genetic stock and laws strictly prohibit interracial relationships/marriages/sex. Even eugenics is practiced in Dominion society.

Total Control – Everything from culture, education, business and other institutions are controlled by a central government and are expected to promote national interests. Likewise, citizens have a duty to the state to expand its influence. Conscription within the military, and other non-military functions, is a reality.

Militarism – As the Dominion internally stabilizes, it understands a good defense requires an even better offense. So much of the Dominion is invested in expanding its future for its people. Within time, it will have to address perverted Western influences throughout the world by raw, unrestrained force.

Heroic Leader – The Emperor, Aisin Gioro Puyi, is the man believed to be responsible for ending hostilities between Japan and China, unifying civil war torn China into a powerful nation and leading numerous successive campaigns to retake East Asia back from the barbaric Soviets and the morally deprived Allies. Despite the Emperor’s many tall tales attributed to him and his unquestioned divinity, he is merely an easily controlled puppet being manipulated by a shadow government in Japan.


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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ethnic populations of Afghanistan, the Indian subcontinent and Indonesia are quite distinct from those of East-Asia, so I have hard time envisioning how the Dominion would accept them as part of the same race/culture. Surely they would view the Southern Asians as inferior? Or are they already practising ethnic cleansing and creating lebensraum for the superior race(s)?
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lefthand
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
The ethnic populations of Afghanistan, the Indian subcontinent and Indonesia are quite distinct from those of East-Asia, so I have hard time envisioning how the Dominion would accept them as part of the same race/culture. Surely they would view the Southern Asians as inferior? Or are they already practising ethnic cleansing and creating lebensraum for the superior race(s)?


In all honesty, the Dominion is secretly just Japanese colonialism masked under Asian unity against a "foreign threat." Essentially, the Dominion is just a far more successful Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. Lebensruam; but with better PR. To an extent, it would strategically idiotic for them not to use the large population pools of India and Indonesia in their military.

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