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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lefthand wrote:
Thanks.
When I think of isolationism, I think of a society that wants to keep itself away from the world. The Dominion, on the other hand, sees the world for its taking. It has no plans to assimilate to the norms of an international community.

These are some of the fascist qualities of the Dominion.




The currently-accepted logo is this:

Although it can certainly be revised. The center part has to be a circle in some way, be it a mitsutomoe, taijitu, taegeuk or other circular symbol (not a svastika - or perhaps EVEN a svastika, depending on how strongly we want to make certain implications).

Quote:

Cult of Tradition –For their perspective, Asia was not conquered by the barbarians, it was that Asia succumbed to the vices and decadence of their Western invaders. The Dominion has looked to the past to find its strengths by rejecting the concepts of democracy, communism and capitalism. This is why it has returned back to a monarchy, an Emperor.

As a historical event, maybe a Cultural Revolution equivalent (including even calling it "Cultural Revolution", but not aimed at destroying the old, but rather, eliminating Western cultural influences?

Quote:

Racial Supremacism – The Dominion is unifying countries under a single genetic banner. Asia is for Asians and the world must be guided by them. Citizenship is only granted to those of said genetic stock and laws strictly prohibit interracial relationships/marriages/sex. Even eugenics is practiced in Dominion society.

I see where this is coming from. This, combined with the complete control of personal lives and economy, would make them a technocratic dictatorship. I'm not sure I want to go there, from history/culture, this could be both justified, and strongly argued against. I will have to do more research.

Quote:

Total Control – Everything from culture, education, business and other institutions are controlled by a central government and are expected to promote national interests. Likewise, citizens have a duty to the state to expand its influence. Conscription within the military, and other non-military functions, is a reality.

See above.

Quote:

Militarism – As the Dominion internally stabilizes, it understands a good defense requires an even better offense. So much of the Dominion is invested in expanding its future for its people. Within time, it will have to address perverted Western influences throughout the world by raw, unrestrained force.

This touches on gameplay aspects. As per current design concepts, Eastasia combines Japanese doctrine and the kind of guerilla warfare that was common in the Vietnam war. "Line defense", the doctrinal "interpretation" of a powerful symbol of China and China's military strategy, the Great Wall, was found incompatible and removed, although I personally would have loved to synthesize the two approaches (line defense and mobile warfare).

Quote:

Heroic Leader – The Emperor, Aisin Gioro Puyi, is the man believed to be responsible for ending hostilities between Japan and China, unifying civil war torn China into a powerful nation and leading numerous successive campaigns to retake East Asia back from the barbaric Soviets and the morally deprived Allies. Despite the Emperor’s many tall tales attributed to him and his unquestioned divinity, he is merely an easily controlled puppet being manipulated by a shadow government in Japan.

I instinctively thought of Puyi too when you mentioned a leader cult in the earlier post. However, I think the North Korea reference can go further. I don't feel a modern pan-asian state could functionally be a monarchy, although a figure-head emperor would work. Combining that with the North Korean idea of the eternal president, I realized that the emperor must not even be alive to fulfill that function. He can be a dead emperor and still have the same cultural and social weight vested in him. Whether the population is aware of him being dead, or ignorant of it, or aware of it but ignorant at the same time in a sort of double-think, could even be an important plot point.

It could also be a reference to that historical anecdote where the First Emperor of China died while on an inspection journey around the country and his chief ministers kept his death a secret (by stacking rotting fish on the carriages infront and after his, no less) until the journey had concluded according to schedule and had reached the capital again. This was done to prevent rebellion and conflicts over succession.

A historical analogy, of course, could be that the bureaucracy is keeping the death of the emperor secret from the public with the reasoning, or excuse, that Asia is still "on the road" to a prosperous, harmonious society and catching up with the West.

Of course, such an emperor would have no successor. Maybe he was even killed by his own retainers after the unification was completed, because he served no more purpose.

What do you make of this idea?

I personally see the leadership of this superstate more as an faceless/gestalt sort of thing, but that may be only because I have not worked out the details yet. From historical precedent, of course, there would need to be a rather large bureaucracy that puts even the Soviets to shame, ranging from the capital (where?) to even the smallest village.
There are very interesting Asian leaders of the 20th and 21st century that had positions and styles of government that I somehow want to see included (Lee Kuan Yew, for example - a centrist and - here we have it again - technocratic leader). While some have stressed that the East has to have some sort of racial prejudice, I think that at least within its own cultural sphere, it promotes interracial tolerance - this has historical precedent - although certainly not cultural tolerance. It also has to be meritocratic, this also has alot of precedence (from Chinese imperial examinations to current-day Singapore). Also, conservative in culture, habits and social relations, but eager to adopt new technology and change its material culture. Maintaining both is difficult.

Quote:


A great map! It roughly corresponds to the idea we had, although I believe the Asians have a strip of land beyond the Amur (corresponding to Ming territory), where Russia is in our world.

Do you think "Hegemony" instead of "Dominion" would be suitable? I've received word that "Dominion" might in the long term turn out to be a bad choice, because the status of the European (and hence British) colonies is not yet certain.

Overall:
You are really interested, it seems to me, and you certainly have interesting ideas that align pretty well with what me and my friends had in mind! It's good I contacted you.
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Last edited by Millennium on Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:07 am; edited 4 times in total

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
The ethnic populations of Afghanistan, the Indian subcontinent and Indonesia are quite distinct from those of East-Asia, so I have hard time envisioning how the Dominion would accept them as part of the same race/culture. Surely they would view the Southern Asians as inferior? Or are they already practising ethnic cleansing and creating lebensraum for the superior race(s)?


I'm not sure what to make of India in-universe.
There had been the idea to make it a faction in its own right, if not playable, then at least as a plot element or perhaps mission/map actor, with a few units, with strong cultural and economic ties to Indonesia and so on.

On the other hand - Britain controlled India with a handful of bureaucrats and rifle divisions. Sure, the technological differential was enormous and this could perhaps, for all its technological prowess, not be repeated by Eastasia. Of course, that partially depends on when they decide to snatch it up (from Great Britain, assuming no decolonization in this universe).

India is certainly something that has to be addressed again sometime, but I can see it being treated not as a country, but rather, like a multi-state subcontinent (like it was for most of its recent history - that we think of India as a country is really just because it happened to be one for the last few decades), with different princely states, democracies, etc all leaning in different ways.

And no, no ethnic cleansing by Eastasia.
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lefthand
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
Do you think "Hegemony" instead of "Dominion" would be suitable? I've received word that "Dominion" might in the long term turn out to be a bad choice, because the status of the European (and hence British) colonies is not yet certain.


The Dominion is something I cooked up years ago when modding…but I never completed the mod beyond the brainstorming phase because I realized I didn’t have the time or resources to build an entirely new side from scratch. So some of the images I am putting down are just old images I made during the brainstorming phase.

I’m partial to the name Dominion because it simply implies what it means; domination and fascism is about dominating. “Hegemony” simply fails to have that kind of weight behind it and I don’t see how this meddles with European colonialism.

That being said, it is your mod and I am simply just providing you with my head canon for this faction.

Quote:
As per current design concepts, Eastasia combines Japanese doctrine and the kind of guerilla warfare that was common in the Vietnam war. "Line defense", the doctrinal "interpretation" of a powerful symbol of China and China's military strategy, the Great Wall, was found incompatible and removed, although I personally would have loved to synthesize the two approaches (line defense and mobile warfare).


This is where you have to leave history behind and look at how to make the third faction unique from the other two.

1) The Dominion would primarily aerial units like the Scrin in CNC3. Most battles in RA2 are tank battles and I wanted to break the monotony by having a faction that would force the other two sides to invest more in anti-air.  

2) The Dominion absorbs the Soviet’s heavy tanks/mass produced units (but has an air force like the Soviets in RA1) and the Soviets play a more GLA/NOD-style strategy that has suicide, stealth and hit and run units.

Some of their technology...

Mobile Drone Factories – Dominion units produce smaller units (like an aircraft carrier) to swarm Allied/Soviet units from a far.  

Gauss Defensive Structure – The Allies have prism technology, the Soviets has Tesla and the Dominion uses railguns. Although these structures don’t do a lot of damage against a single unit, a few well-placed gauss towers can obliterate a tank rush.

Quote:
Of course, such an emperor would have no successor. Maybe he was even killed by his own retainers after the unification was completed, because he served no more purpose.
What do you make of this idea?


By the time the Second Red War has ended, the Emperor may have already passed away…whether the public knows about his death is very unlikely. The Emperor lives behind a lot of secrecy and not much is known about him personally beyond the vast amount of propaganda used to promote his divinity. That being said, it is merely a title position and gives something for the citizens of the Dominion to rally behind. After all, the real power behind the throne is a shadow government located in Japan. The Emperor is just a puppet used to promote Asian unification at the interests of Japan. His power is merely symbolic…much like Hirohito’s during WW2.

Whether he has a successor or not isn’t very important because ultimately, the Emperor has no say in the affairs of the Dominion.

Quote:
…ranging from the capital (where?)…


I decided Beijing; because it would be on the Asian continent and to give the impression that the Chinese rule the government. In reality, it is a ruse.

Quote:
While some have stressed that the East has to have some sort of racial prejudice, I think that at least within its own cultural sphere, it promotes interracial tolerance…


Fascism has elements of nativism and discrimination in it…there would likely be no tolerance for diversity.

Of course, the Dominion is not a statement about Asian culture in particular; it is just my desire to have every faction to have some element of unethical behavior. The citizens under the Western Alliance live elegant lives at the cost of subjugating the developing world of its resources and people. The Soviets look to liberate the people of the world with no moral restraint…whether by brainwashing, terrorism, genocide, assassination and the liberal usage of weapons of mass destruction. In my version of Red Alert, there are no good guys.

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lefthand
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
The ethnic populations of Afghanistan, the Indian subcontinent...I have hard time envisioning how the Dominion would accept them as part of the same race/culture.


They aren't. Central Asia is the proverbially wild west; a lawless region that neither the Western Alliance or Eastern Dominion have any control over. India is marked as "disputed."

Parts of Afghanistan and most of central Asia make up the unrecognized state of Khanaistan; a base of operations for post-Soviet insurgents, warlords and terrorists. But that is an entirely new can of worms.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="lefthand"]
Millennium wrote:
Do you think "Hegemony" instead of "Dominion" would be suitable? I've received word that "Dominion" might in the long term turn out to be a bad choice, because the status of the European (and hence British) colonies is not yet certain.


The Dominion is something I cooked up years ago when modding…but I never completed the mod beyond the brainstorming phase because I realized I didn’t have the time or resources to build an entirely new side from scratch. So some of the images I am putting down are just old images I made during the brainstorming phase.

I’m partial to the name Dominion because it simply implies what it means; domination and fascism is about dominating. “Hegemony” simply fails to have that kind of weight behind it and I don’t see how this meddles with European colonialism.

That being said, it is your mod and I am simply just providing you with my head canon for this faction.

Quote:

Quote:
As per current design concepts, Eastasia combines Japanese doctrine and the kind of guerilla warfare that was common in the Vietnam war. "Line defense", the doctrinal "interpretation" of a powerful symbol of China and China's military strategy, the Great Wall, was found incompatible and removed, although I personally would have loved to synthesize the two approaches (line defense and mobile warfare).


This is where you have to leave history behind and look at how to make the third faction unique from the other two.

1) The Dominion would primarily aerial units like the Scrin in CNC3. Most battles in RA2 are tank battles and I wanted to break the monotony by having a faction that would force the other two sides to invest more in anti-air.  

For all the interest I have in this concept from a gameplay standpoint, I'm not sure if we can manage a full technological overhaul of the faction. It would also detract too much from historical/pop-cultural precedent. Sure, it would easily be possible to increase the number of airborne BattleSuits, and given that mechas can deploy some hefty firepower, that would already make a world of difference in terms of gameplay, but that is as far as it goes I think. There IS already a side that is more "airborne" than before though, and that's the Allies, which have a much increased range of fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters. So this suggestion of yours does feature in the mod - I just never looked at it from a gameplay point of view, only a real-life doctrinal one.

2) The Dominion absorbs the Soviet’s heavy tanks/mass produced units (but has an air force like the Soviets in RA1) and the Soviets play a more GLA/NOD-style strategy that has suicide, stealth and hit and run units.

Quote:

Some of their technology...

Mobile Drone Factories – Dominion units produce smaller units (like an aircraft carrier) to swarm Allied/Soviet units from a far.  

Yes. The main Asian artillery unit is the "Drone Carrier", a land vehicle that spawns a swarm of drones over long distances. I suppose this also could be interpreted as forcing your opponent to invest into AA, although not to a greater degree than Soviet V3s would, so it's not that unique in that aspect.

Quote:

Gauss Defensive Structure – The Allies have prism technology, the Soviets has Tesla and the Dominion uses railguns. Although these structures don’t do a lot of damage against a single unit, a few well-placed gauss towers can obliterate a tank rush.

Accepted. Railguns were a thing before, but their damage was pretty massive (matching PTs and TCs).

Something we considered before was making the railgun weapons gain additional damage by toggling to a high-power-consumption mode (to match how PTs gain damage by linking in a chain, and TCs by being charged by Tesla Troopers). Then, we decided that Asian defense structures should use the upgrade logic of TS Component Towers and that did not work well with mode-toggling, so the mode concept was abandoned.

Your suggestion of making their per-target damage lower is interesting. Then, we make the number of targets a modifier to the brt damage output of a shot (i.e. line damage) and achieve by number of aligned targets the same effect as the PT does by chaining and the TC by being charged.

On that note, whether Tesla Coils are even still used as a Soviet technology is somewhat uncertain.

Quote:

Quote:
…ranging from the capital (where?)…


I decided Beijing; because it would be on the Asian continent and to give the impression that the Chinese rule the government. In reality, it is a ruse.

Accepted. The contender for me personally was Nanjing, for historical reasons, but Beijing is more likely. It carries more historical weight, and the seat of government would likely have been transferred back to there.

I will address some of the other points later, they are also very interesting.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On that note, what program/techniques did you use to create the maps?
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lefthand
Grenadier


Joined: 08 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
On that note, what program/techniques did you use to create the maps?


Photoshop.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little update

I needed a break from the Far Eastern intricacies, so I have started working on some more Brotherhood weapons (whether they will become a full, playable faction or just a map/mission faction is still uncertain, but they will need some units either way).

Brotherhood technology is supposed to be shabby and improvised and I have worked on things like catapults that hurl barrels full of oil or toxic chemicals.

Another thing I have largely finished is a major overhaul of all the animation IDs to make them more consistent.
All explosion are named as explosions, all smokes/trailers are named as smokes, and so on. I have also imported and renamed a great deal of TibSun animations. In this process, I have also discarded many obsolete files from the mixes.

Also, an update to the update:
* Adressed an issue that has been reported in which a single MicroMissile hit from the Asian Missile Tank would confer the full effect of speed debuff on the target, making this unit inordinately powerful in hit-and-run against huge numbers of enemy units. Each micro-missile now confers a very short-lasting -10% Speed debuff, cumulative, rather than -50%, non-cumulative, making it harder to maintain substantial speed reduction on large numbers of enemies. If this issue persists, we might make the tank unable to fire on the move at all.
* Adressed several units' Veteran/EliteAbilities by aligning them more closely with the unit portfolios (rather than the "full sweep" of abilities granted to units in vanilla RA2/YR)
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Third Power Update
Whether the Third Power will be featured as a separate side, merged into the Europe subfaction, become a neutral map faction with capturable command centers (on Antarctica and Lunar maps, to keep them in-character!) or will maybe be removed entirely is not certain yet.
Anyway, I have gone with the assumption that this faction will find a place in the mod in one way or another and have coded some of their units:

Panther Tank

A German medium tank dating to the 1940s, the Panther was repeatedly upgraded and upgunned to keep up with more recent tank developments. As technological progress in tank design mostly expressed itself in ever-increasing size and weight of armored fighting vehicles, the Panther, although outclassed by later developments in armor and firepower, was never made obsolete, as it remained the most effective design for its battlefield role, out-maneuvering heavy tanks and outgunning light tanks. Originally armed with a 75mm high-velocity gun, later production models included a 90mm gun. This included field conversions of previous models.

The Panther was designed to counter Soviet armored formations operating the T-55 medium tank and although unable to engage heavy tanks and modern MBTs, it is highly effective in engaging these older designs. Fortunately, the majority of the contemporary Russian armor is still composed of the very same T-55.

The Panther's main gun is highly specialized to achieve high muzzle velocity, range and accuracy and the tank's ammunition supply of armor-piercing grenades is fitted to match, which limits the tank almost exclusively to anti-tank combat. Its relatively slow traverse, low rate of fire, low caliber and narrow angle of barrel depression and elevation prohibit the use against smaller and more agile targets, however in this it exceptional among AFVs.
Elite units are regularly equipped with high-explosive shells for fortification demolition, however these are not fragmentation shells and their usefulness in engaging enemy infantry is still limited. Engagements with infantry should be avoided.

* Panthers gain +50% damage when attacking other tanks (and only tanks).
* Cannot receive defense bonuses from SWs or other effects.
* Move and Fire - Panthers can fire on the move.
* If moving towards a target to attack it, the Panther can fire twice in rapid succession right after stopping within weapon range. This only applies if the Panther has to move to fire on the target - firing upon a target already in range will not allow for a second shot.
* +1 Speed compared to other medium tanks
* Elite upgrade is improved armor, speed and firepower. Elite Panther units receive special demolition shells that allow them to be as effective against buildings as they are against tanks, but infantry still poses a problem.
* The Panther's shells are blocked by walls and buildings, making this unit highly vulnerable in urban theaters, especially when combined with its inadequacy against infantry.

Yes, this unit is another anachronism, but depending on where and how it's added, it may still fit - Paradox had WW1 Vickers machine guns and WW2 Tigers next to transforming mechas and raygun-armed spaceships...
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Trans_C
AA Infantry


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then why a 90mm gun? This is not a WWII German caliber imho.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right that in OTL (our world), no variant or derivative of the Panther was ever planned with that caliber.
The account of the Panther given above is for the slightly different Continuum universe (which is for the first part of the 20th century pretty much identical to the Red Alert universe). Here, "Nazi Germany" did not exist - the Panther was produced by some yet-unnamed German conservative military dictatorship. Since the European countries and the United States cooperate in Red Alert in defeating the Soviet Union, I thought that it would be appropriate that the German arms production would make some concessions to standardization and interchangeable parts with other European militaries and the US (just like we see today with NATO standardized calibers). This "upgraded Panther" would appear in the early 50s (which is, I think, the timeframe of Red Alert) and would differ substantially from the Panthers that we saw in our world's WW2. After all, the development and introduction of very innovative upgrades to, and descendant designs of, the Panther in OTL were cut short by shortages of time, resources and infrastructure (and eventually defeat).
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More updates!:

Typhoon

The EA's Missile Launcher unit has received a graphical and functional revision awhile ago. The new unit is now called Typhoon Missile Launcher and all the variants of missile launcher vehicle considered in previous updates to be in use by this faction are thereby obsolete. We are confident that this will be the final of the many revision to the concept of the Eastasian missile launcher vehicle. The Typhoon fires multi-directional SWARMs (Short-range Wide-area Recursive Missile), which break up into smaller submunitions. Each mini-missile independently locks onto and tracks its own target. The Typhoon can provide anti-air cover for your mobile units and provide fire support against unhardened ground targets. The mini-missiles are unable to pierce tank armor or hardened structures.
* Elite upgrade is increased sight, sensors, ROF and +1 submuntions per missile.
* The vehicle is NOT remapable over its entirety (it just appears this way on the screenshot because the player color on the remap parts blends into the non-remap color of the vehicle's hull). Rather, this is the first instance of a new EA main color scheme that is being considered (alternative, all vehicles would be painted peachwhite, a la RA3's Japan - which color scheme will be chosen is not decided yet).

Indian Confederacy

Indian Confederacy map Smile No in-game relevance as far as I can tell, but perhaps an interesting bit of background lore, for those who care.
You might notice some obvious territorial overlap with the EA - this is because the IC is not really intended to be a territorial/military faction. The darker saffron-colored territory (mostly India) is the extension of actual political control. The lighter-colored areas are areas with significant cultural and trade ties.
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Trans_C
AA Infantry


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere in China

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
Rather, this is the first instance of a new EA main color scheme that is being considered (alternative, all vehicles would be painted peachwhite, a la RA3's Japan - which color scheme will be chosen is not decided yet).


Oh please don't use white as the main color, it looks horrible on a voxel.
Yellow is meh, but acceptable. Personally I think the best color is dark green since nearly every millitary in East Asia will have to fight in mountainous areas and forests extensively. (May look somewhat similar to soviet color scheme though, but you can just modify the unit palette and add any scheme you like.)
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lefthand
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Joined: 08 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the Indian Confederacy's symbol is the Buddhist symbol of the Eight Fold Path? I think there are better symbols one could use to represent India...esp. within the context of war.

Understandably, it is a work in progress, but I'd probably have it changed to something else.

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Millennium
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since it's a good policy to update with screenies whenever there's something to show, here is a "byproduct" of latest aircraft weapon research!
Airbursting bombs:

(A stationary screenshot does not communicate the functionality very well.)
We're not quite sure yet where this weapon will actually find use - likely with the USA.

Now to respond to the posts! Thank you all for posting!

Trans_C wrote:

Oh please don't use white as the main color, it looks horrible on a voxel.

This is valuable advice. I think we will not use white - it really does not look very good.

Quote:

Yellow is meh, but acceptable.

Yellow is not ideal - it is a "strong" color that is just better suited as a remap rather than main color scheme... the problem is that I'm running out of sufficiently-differentiable main colors. Originally, EA used a GDI-like color scheme, but Brotherhood/Warlords will probably turn out to use sandy/brown colors which would have been just a bit darker than GDI, which would have made it very hard to tell the the two factions apart by color. Then the addition of the Indian Confederacy, which probably falls into a color range somewhere between GDI and Yuri... there would just have been too many factions crowded into the sand/brown spectrum. So we just left the brown/gold spectrum towards pure yellow for Asia. Maybe we will figure out something better, such as:

Quote:

Personally I think the best color is dark green since nearly every millitary in East Asia will have to fight in mountainous areas and forests extensively. (May look somewhat similar to soviet color scheme though, but you can just modify the unit palette and add any scheme you like.)

This is an interesting idea. Asia really spans many environs, from tropical forests (Indochina, Pacific islands) to snowy/rocky plains (Mongolia), mountains (Himalaya) and even sandy deserts (Xinjiang). Maybe theater-dependent color schemes are something that can be considered for all factions (ie doing away with faction-dependent color schemes entirely in favour of theater-dependent ones - interesting!)
And you are right, Soviets are already planned to use green (like they did historically) rather than RA2's Afghanistan camouflage. But a seperate Asian green color scheme may be jade or jungle green, rather than Soviet moss/forest green.
Thank you for the suggestion!

lefthand wrote:

So the Indian Confederacy's symbol is the Buddhist symbol of the Eight Fold Path? I think there are better symbols one could use to represent India...esp. within the context of war.


The dharmachakra itself not limited to Buddhism and it is a very common symbol in Hinduism, and of India (it would also connect well to the Indian flag, even though that depicts of course a spinning wheel). Its interpretations are manifold and Buddhist pacifism was not my first association of this symbol in an Indian context.
It may however be that the eight-spoked version is specifically a Buddhist symbol. Closer investigation reveals that the eight-spoked version is indeed predominantly used as a Buddhist symbol, while the Indian has up to 24 spokes (with various interpretations given for each spoke).

Another possibility would be a stylized version of Ashoka's Lion Capital, or perhaps a trishula (trident-like weapon of Shiva, the deity of destruction), which may be better suited to a context of warfare.

The IC is supposed to be an "economic" faction, although to what extent anything other than warfare can be implemented in this engine remains a field of research...

Yes, it's very much WIP.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know the current Buddhist order in Tibet gained ascendency by slaughtering rival sects right? Pacifists they are not #Tongue
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
You know the current Buddhist order in Tibet gained ascendency by slaughtering rival sects right? Pacifists they are not #Tongue


Buddhist branches can be vastly different from each other. Maybe we shouldn't assume all buddhists are trigger-happy just because some guys are.
Religions make useful political tools throughout the history, so it's not uncommon to find bloody political conflicts related to religions, be it "peace-loving" or not.

Also, in East Asia, at least in China, buddhits monks are stereotypically considered strict pacifist (dunno whether this can also be applied to Japan though, they seems to have mercenaries consisting of buddhist monks in history)

Anyway, a peace-loving faction won't make a good RTS faction. imo a faction fighting completely out of justice and self-defence is just too bland to be attractive.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trans_C wrote:
Buddhist branches can be vastly different from each other. Maybe we shouldn't assume all buddhists are trigger-happy just because some guys are.

This was my point in reverse, we associate Buddhism with pacifism, but it's not always true...

Trans_C wrote:
Anyway, a peace-loving faction won't make a good RTS faction. imo a faction fighting completely out of justice and self-defence is just too bland to be attractive.

Very true, unless you want to play a farming game (or SimCity) with random attacks... but it's possible you could make a faction with a really good economy with very generic and inexpensive units that are better for defending than attacking.

Sometimes like in chess, you win by playing to stalemate, and wait for an enemy mistake. There's no reason it couldn't be done, per se.

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Millennium
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Almost a month has passed since this thread has seen its last update! In the meantime, we have concerned ourselves with several intricacies of design (that I would appreciate input/feedback on) and engine (some of which has already been already been posted in the appropriate subforum).

But first to address the previous posters:

Trans_C wrote:

Religions make useful political tools throughout the history, so it's not uncommon to find bloody political conflicts related to religions, be it "peace-loving" or not.

The relationship between religion, politics and culture is certainly a complex one that I think I'm not qualified to address comprehensively, and which would certainly exceed the frame of this thread even if - which much preponderance - I tried to address as partially as I'm able to from my limited understanding and I must so decline further comment.

Quote:

Also, in East Asia, at least in China, buddhits monks are stereotypically considered strict pacifist (dunno whether this can also be applied to Japan though, they seems to have mercenaries consisting of buddhist monks in history)

Regarding the role of Buddhism, its development in Japan and its influence on Japanese military history, I think "Zen and the Art of Divebombing, or The Dark Side of the Tao" is a very interesting, if controversial, lecture. If you have sincere interest and some time to spare, it can be found here:
http://www.friesian.com/divebomb.htm

One also feels reminded of the "Death Worship" or "Obliteration of Self" from 1984 - although Orwell does not go into detail regarding this ideological system, it is easy enough, by the name alone, to envision how certain aspects of an essentially pacifist worldview overlap with aspects that support a destructive impetus.

But these considerations are important for the Eastasians, not India. When we selected the dharmachakra for India, we were unaware that the eight-spoken variant explicitly evokes a Buddhist association. India in Continuum is not Buddhist to any substantially greater or lesser degree than it is in our world. They are predominantly Hindu, with a probably substantial Muslim minority.

G-E wrote:

Trans_C wrote:

Anyway, a peace-loving faction won't make a good RTS faction. imo a faction fighting completely out of justice and self-defence is just too bland to be attractive.

Very true, unless you want to play a farming game (or SimCity) with random attacks... but it's possible you could make a faction with a really good economy with very generic and inexpensive units that are better for defending than attacking.

There are two options for this:

1) A pacifist/defensive theme that almost entirely concerns the fluff of the faction and is only vaguely reflected in the units. For example, in RA2, the Allies are the defensive faction in narration - America is being attacked by the Soviets, and although the Allies later do go on the offensive, the majority of their campaign is defensive, or at most counter-offensive, in nature. The Soviets are the aggressors. In terms of gameplay, this difference is almost non-existent. The Soviet units seem more aggressive in design and "recklessness", and the Soviet tanks are heavier and meaner, but generally, both sides can play the offensive and defensive equally well.
Likewise, casting the IC as a pacifist/defensive faction does not necessarily have to affect their gameplay to a great extent.
2) A pacifist/defensive/economic theme that is reflected in the gameplay to a substantial extent - weak offensive units, strong defensive buildings, great harvesters, money-producing structures, price-reducing structures, harvester bail bonus structures, and so on. I agree that this would be, at its extreme, very hard to implement in this engine. A possibility would be what Atomic China was in Paradox - a faction that is entirely about defense and amassing the funds necessary to build a "wonder weapon" that pretty much grants them instant victory if they can complete it. I feel that a nuclear weapon would be appropriate for India in a way, so we might end up giving them a strategic nuke in the role of the wonder weapon, just like Paradox' Atomic China had.

G-E wrote:

Sometimes like in chess, you win by playing to stalemate, and wait for an enemy mistake. There's no reason it couldn't be done, per se.

Interestingly, one of the original drafts of the Indians had their units based on "caturanga", the original game of chess from ancient India Smile

Updatery!

"Air Mech"
The Eastasian primary fighter aircraft has been determined! Of course, the obvious choice here is an airborne mecha. All this time spent looking for a fitting idea, when the best choice is so obvious!

(The graphic is a temporary placeholder for this show-of-principle, cobbled together from a recolored helicopter gunship for TS and a Titan voxel. It will become more mech-like in later versions.)

Since this should not just be looking like a mech, but be functionally identical to a helicopter gunship, the obvious differentiating features are two: 1) it is more maneuverable on-spot than any other aircraft 2) it is mobile and functional as a combat unit both on the ground and in the air, switching between foot-mobile and air-mobile as the circumstances demand. Because of engine and art limitations, this unit's function will take a form much like the transformable mechas in RA3, having distinct modes and configurations that the player needs to actively toggle between.
It will switch between a land-form and air-form by using the Deploy command, and turning into a building in between.

  • The Secondary weapons will be a SWARM 'missile wing' (using radial fire).
  • The Primary weapon is undecided, but it does need a 'main hand' weapon beyond the auxiliary missiles. Cannon recoil is too great for a light aerial unit. Autocannon is overused (or is it?), Railguns do have recoil too (contrary to commonly held belief) and the technology of Continuum does not allow to mount a power source sufficient for a railgun on such a small unit. The latter point also prohibits lasers.

For now, this unit is tentatively called "Harpy", but that has a Greek connotation and should not be permanent... Any suggestions for a name and a Primary?

Mammoth Tank

The Mammoth Tank is a staple unit in C&C. It appears in Continuum as a Third Power unit and has - as is shown - seen considerable design change. In-universe, it's a descendant of the real-world Maus and E-100 tanks (hence the voxel that looks the part, although it's going to be modified in later versions) and is called "Mammoth II".

The original, established C&C Mammoth Tank has two main guns of 120mm caliber. Together with its elephantine name, the obvious association would be that these are the "tusks". Any gun equivalent to an elephant's trunk is missing. Now, the term "tusk" is used instead for the missile pods, which are mounted on the sides of the turret, much in the fashion of an elephant's prominent ears. From this naming follows that the gun barrels would instead be... two? trunks? This, combined with the single-barrel nature of the E-100 and Maus in real-life, has prompted me to overthink the design of the Mammoth as it planned to appear in Continuum.

The Soviets also have the "Stalin's Fist", which is in turn inspired by the Apocalypse Tank, so we have two Mammoth-inspired tanks in this mod... I'm currently trying to dissemble the Fist's Mammoth-like traits, so that the Mammoth Tank of the mod is more unique...

Possible add-ons/features for a Mammoth Tank:

  • HP - We're not sure what a good amount of HitPoints would be for this unit - 600 as in RA/TD/TS (and making the step from the Tiger V heavy tank with its 500 HP a rather regular one), 800 as the MMK2 in TS and the Apoc in RA2, or a whopping 1100 as the Overlord in Generals (and thereby more than any naval vessel)? This question, of course, has a balancing/gameplay component, but also a purely "fluff" component of technological consistency - how much more durability could reasonably be expected from a super-heavy tank?
  • Main gun/"Trunk" - A 150mm gun or something of that sort, as had been planned for the real-world German E-100. It may also be a railgun? Making it a railgun would give it a very powerful weapon that would be consistent with Third Power technology, but it would also take away the opportunity to use some ludicrous caliber for a main gun. We already have a specialized railgun tank, too. Should we do away with that instead? Or keep both? What would be their role differences? Maybe the Mammoth should have a build limit? A railgun would also be a nod to the MMK2 from TS.
  • Auxiliary guns/"Tusks" - Two smaller guns, one mounted to each side of the main gun. Similar to the auxiliary 75mm gun of the real-world Maus (which mounted it next to a 128mm main gun) and the dual naval guns of the Ratte, both of which probably entered into WW's Mammoth Tank concept. The TD/TS Mammoth has established armament to consist of two 120mm guns, but obviously it would stretch imagination to consider anything that could still reasonably pass as a tank to be armed with a 150mm gun and two 120mm guns. Auxiliary guns could fire the 'taunt'-type of weapon (see below)? What's clear is that to reasonably fall into C&C's established "Mammoth" paradigm (which this unit should do), it needs two guns. It can maybe have more than that, but it needs two that are clearly paired!
  • Missile pods/"Ears" - Mostly because the established C&C Mammoth Tank canon has missile launchers for infantry and aerial targets. These would not be very "German"-ish or "Europe"-ish, I feel. But a Mammoth Tank needs to have this, no?
  • "Taunt" - A weapon that 'tags' an enemy and makes that enemy attack the Mammoth. Similar to the ability from TW, although naturally, because of engine limitations, it would not have the actual effect of forcing an enemy to attack just the Mammoth, but rather, would be a long-range laser-like weapon that would lure single currently-passive enemies out of a base or larger formation and into the range of the Mammoth's main guns. This would upgrade to...:
  • "Challenge" - A harpoon-like device that doesn't just get the attention of passive units, but actively forces the enemy to come up close. Can be done via IsLocomotor/'Drive' on the warhead. Inspired mostly by the upgrade for the Overlord in RA3:Paradox, but would of course be a fitting upgrade to the "Taunt".
  • Four treads - Purely an artistic feature. C&C's canon Mammoth Tanks have this as a consistent feature. The Swedish experimental UDES XX20 tank destroyer was a real-world combat vehicle that used multiple threads and perhaps inspired WW to give its Mammoth Tank multiple threads (the UDES XX20 also has a "joint" in the middle, which the Mammoth Tank of course does not have). It may be that such a setup would partially compensate for the problems a super-heavy tank would have with mobility and especially maneuverability and hence would be beneficial to a super-heavy tank, although I cannot say if that would still be the case if the "joint" would not be present in the vehicle (if at all). All in all, the case for keeping the four-threaded setup on the Mammoth seems strong.
  • Auto-Repair - Again, a staple for the Mammoth Tank, but field repairs and self-healing are not really something that fits the Third Power's portfolio. If explained as nanites, it fits Eastasia, if explained as biological/regeneration, it fits no existing side, and if explained by the vehicle's crew taking out welders and screwdrivers, it fits the Soviets...
  • OmniCrush - No Mammoth Tank has this, but the Overlord in Generals does effectively have its engine's equivalent to it. Should our Mammoth Tank be heavy enough to do this? If this unit is not big and heavy enough to do it, then what unit could? What should be the benchmark beyond which you can crush other vehicles? The feature would maybe go unused if this unit is not heavy enough for it. Maybe only ships should do it to boats, but no land vehicles? Or certain specialized "threshing" vehicles, unrelated to being bigger and heavier than the Mammoth?
  • Other, Generals-inspired, features have cropped up - a repair aura, an open-topped passenger space... Both of these were rejected, they seem more Soviet-ish ('tank desant') or at least not European.

As you can see, this unit's design is very much WIP. Totally open to suggestions which features the tank should have or shouldn't have, or even to the suggestion of entirely new features that we didn't think of!

Also:
Tentatively considering the re-addition of Chrono technology. Also, what faction could Chaos gas fit to? Should it be a gas at all? Maybe we can stick Psychedelic on an entirely different weapon type? Maybe rays? What faction would chaos rays be fit for? As always, open to suggestions Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tentatively started re-adding Yuri as a mini-faction to the mod - there are just too many Yuri-related technologies, units and abilities that would have to be passed up on without him.

Yuri will not be a selectable faction - there will be some Yuri units and his MCV obtainable from crates and maps may have capturable Yuri Construction Yards and Yuri Command Centers placed on them. That way, the player can, by chance, gain access to Yuri's tech tree, or part thereof. We have no real lore yet for as to how Yuri fits into the Continuum universe and we're open to suggestions. Yuri's tech tree is also greatly different from that of vanilla YR (many of YR's mainstay Yuri technologies are part of other factions now), but he maintains his core theme of mind-affecting and biological technologies. Yuri will not have Gattlings, Gattling Tanks, Lasher Tanks, Flying Discs or Magnetrons!

Some concepts:

Units:
* Pawn - A MC'd civilian, slow, fearless, armed with a gun.
* Fanatic - A MC'd civilian, fast, fearless, armed with a suicide vest.
* Initiate - Initiate. Might exist in fire, ice and tesla variants.
* Infiltrator - Essentially the allied Spy, cloaked. When infiltrating enemy barracks and being in possession of a Cloning Vat, Yuri gains the ability to build clones of enemy heroes.
* Dominator - What used to be the original Yuri of RA2, or the Yuri Clone of YR.
* ??? - Unit inbetween Dominator and Yuri? Or inbetween Initate and Dominator? Maybe it will be called "Acolyte". Abilities uncertain, maybe telekinetic vs vehicles and psychic damage vs infantry?
* Yuri - YR's Yuri Prime
* Virus - As in YR, but Elite upgrade is a weapon that turns victims into zombies, which in turn transmit the zombie virus onto new victims.
* Zombie - Generated by Virus' weapon when she is promoted to Elite. Weak, slow infantry units that cannot be brought to 0 HP by bullet fire and must be gibbed, disintegrated or burned to be killed. They cannot damage buildings or vehicles, but instantly transform other infantry into zombies if they manage to close into meelee range.
* Brain Parasite - A small bio-something that enters enemy vehicles and permanently gains control of them. Uncertain what it does to infantry.
* Stealth Tank - A stealth tank (duh). Weapon uncertain. Missiles, as in TS?
* Mobile Stealth Generator - A MSG with a small radius. Needs to deploy to function, like in FS.
* Deviator - The Dune unit, but confuses, rather than controls. Fires a salvo of chaos gas missiles.
* Mastermind - Mastermind
* Chaos Bomber - Needs no introduction.
* Phobos Missile/Chaos Lance - A cruise missile (buildable? spawned by SW?) that detonates in a cloud of chaos gas.

Buildings:
* Chaos Mine - Base defense; explodes in a cloud of chaos gas when stepped/driven upon. Can be manually detonated.
* Psychic Bunker (name?) - A bunker for a single Initiate or other psychic unit, by which it is operated. Unit inside gains huge boost to psychic abilities and can attack ground and air units with psychic force. Equally effective against any type of target.
* Psychic Tower - same as in YR
* Psychic Sensor - Radar/psychic sensor; grants the Mind's Eye SW; can be upgraded to gain the Clairvoyance SW and again to gain the Illusion SW.
* Stealth Generator -As in TibSun; can be upgraded to gain the 'Cloak' SW.

SWs:
* Mind's Eye - Remote viewing, as in YR.
* Clairvoyance - Decloaks enemy units.
* Cloak - Own units in AoE become stealthed for a limited amount of time.
* Illusion - Creates an army of undamageable illusionary units in the target area. They cannot deal damage and expire after awhile, but will draw enemy fire.
* Equalizer - suppresses stats of enemy units in area of effect, boosts stats of own units. Extra-effective against psychic units (enemy psychics lose their psychic abilities, own psychics get a heavy boost).
* Psychic Shield - Boosts armor of target unit.
* Dominate - Psychic Dominator as in YR.

It's uncertain how Yuri will gather resources - we cannot fall back to the Slave Miner, as Slave Miner logic is already used for the Eastasian resource system. Perhaps Ares will allow for more Enslavers eventually.

Ideas? Suggestions?
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Ickus
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yuri is a fun faction to sorta conceptualize. It has tasty sci-tropes of bio engineering, mind control ,etc  that can border around science fantasy. Like Psycho-mantis,  Warhammer stuff and the RA3 allusion. anyways

Since your YURI faction isn't a standard Mplayer faction maybe  grinder would work. Not sure if any other faction uses this per say but it fits yuri's predatory style.

The player has a native refinery but would the Player ever be full on YURI at the start?  overall think that seems to fit, else  passive credit generators?

Else can make a refinery that looks like a generator/grinder with a special brute vehicle that goes around and scoops up ore in his backpack. #Tongue
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Millennium
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grinder might actually be a fitting idea, if limited to biological units. I don't really see dismantling vehicles to fit the bio-engineering theme, but dissolving infantry into soylent certainly does fit. Suggestion accepted!

Brotherhood already uses vehicle-dismantling for cash, but that's not prohibitive, lore-wise, for other factions to use a similar system.

And yes, you're right, gameplay-wise an independent resource system for Yuri isn't a necessity, since the player has his own resource system to use.
But if there is any resource system concept that is obviously Yuri-like, I'd like to integrate it into the faction. Bio-Grinder concept certainly qualifies.

The Brute idea is lovely too. #Tongue
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if yuri is more body horror and smelt metals and plastics into his creations forming SOMA disco headed creations #Tongue

Also the slave-miner logic isn't bad like using visceroids to mine up ore.

Or refinery as well a large visceroid that rolls around collecting ore XD

but i like the idea of forcing the player to hunt down enemy units. Making things like Masterminds their harvester unit. It be more micro since the player would have to play a very active role in their economy

Also Yuri disks, and thieves can play a part in that predator/parasite theme
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-> A Visceroid as harvester is a super interesting idea. I'm not sure how far we want to take the bio-engineering theme. Certainly, Yuri shouldn't be on a Scrin/Tyranid level of being able to whisk customized lifeforms out of his hat, so there are some things that should be considered "too extreme". The idea itself is great, but I'm not sure on which side of this line it is.

-> The issue with Slave Miners is that we're already using Enslaves logic for Eastasia's Drone Refinery and YR, AFAIK, does not allow for more than one unit/structure combo to have an Enslaves list. Ares may or may not fix that eventually.

-> Yuri doesn't get discs in this mod, unfortunately. Flying saucers are a Third Power thing, to play on Nazi UFOs/Reichsflugscheiben.

-> Infiltrator is a Spy, so he will be able to function as a Thief.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking along the lines of Tleiaxu vats. even then those units that was more special case for Emperor:Battle for Dune..:p
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I think... Tleilaxu biotechnology is like half-way between Yuri and Scrin/Zerg level. I think some units/ideas can be adapted from the Tleilaxu. We already did this, partially: Brain Parasite is essentially a glorified Tleilaxu Leech and Zombies are pretty much Tleilaxu... what was the name?... Infectors?

Someone else suggested using Ares' Abductor logic for a resource gatherer at low tier (before you have access to actual mind control units): a "harvester" which collects enemy infantry, rather than ore, and dumps them at your Soylent Vat (i.e. infantry-only Grinder), where you can churn them into resources.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to correct a bit... the real tleilaxu don't have zombies, they have genetically altered sleeper agents that can be created from the remains of any person... named Gholas. And they also have facedancers, which are real spies.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, what I meant was the Contaminator from EoD, it can be found here:
http://dune2k.com/Duniverse/Games/Emperor/Details/Units

I don't know if that is consistent with the Tleilaxu of the novels, but this unit was in the games. No, it's not a zombie, but in terms of gameplay, it functions pretty much like you'd expect from the current-day zombie clichee - bites people to turn them into other Contaminators, and does not simply die from being shot.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


It's the Deviator, a Yuri-tech unit that is available either from crates or by gaining access to Yuri's production facilities, which may be found on some maps! It fires volleys of missiles containing psychedelic gas, which only affects the enemy, providing long-range fire support for more meelee-oriented units - or sheer harassment.

Tech Upgrades
Technologies, upgrades that are purchased once and then have a permanent effect on a player's units, are something mods have sought to create in various ways since the addition of new possibilities of implementation in Ares, but which is still somewhat of an under-explored feature that is not often seen in playable mods. I've also long been of the opinion that Continuum should involve a technology upgrade system.
So, now, I have been thinking what these upgrades could be:

* Faraday cage - Armor upgrade for vehicles that renders electrical attacks less effective. Ray weapons can no longer kill crews, passengers or drivers. Fits Third Power.
* Armor upgrades - Like the "Composite Armor" technology of Gen/ZH, but comes in 3 tiers. Fits Third Power and the Soviets.
* Reactive Armor - Makes units more resistant to missiles. Fits Soviets.
* Active Protection - A laser network protects vehicles upgraded with it. Fits Allies.
* Ramjet cannon/Scram cannon/Plasma cartridge/Light gas gun - different tiers (not necessarily in that order) that upgrade the muzzle velocity (and thereby destructiveness) of tank guns. Fits Third Power.
* Neurolink - Brain implants improve effectiveness of information exchange on the battlefield. Units gain AutoScatter and other useful behavioural traits. Also improves Hackers' attacks. Fits Eastasia.
* Nano-armor - Special material science improves armor of vehicles and armored suits. Fits Eastasia.
* Nanites - Vehicles, armored suits, buildings(!) and cyborgs gain self-heal.
* Corrosive gas - Allows gas weapons to damage non-organic units. Fits Brotherhood.
* "New Mix" - Essentially Black Napalm from Gen/ZH, but affects more weapons than just fire-based ones. Fits Eastasia.

Neutral Command Centers

The neutral Command Center replaces the Civilian Armory as a structure possibly found on maps. This finally structurizes the way neutral faction units are obtained on a given map (other than through crates): this type of Command Center, owned by one of the mini-factions, will grant access to that faction's units and structures when captured.

Not all neutral factions will use this particular structure, some (like Yuri) have their own kind of capturable 'lair'.
Some factions have additional structures beyond just a Command Center.

Misc changes
The Soviet Katyusha was substantially nerfed:
* Damage will stunt the reloading process.
* Elite Katyushas are no longer firing in a continuous stream, but rather in the same burst and ROF as Rookies. Damage on the elite version was raised to that of the Rookie version to compensate.
* Elite Katyusha rockets' only advantage over the Rookie version is that they have an incendiary effect.
* Katyushas are now less effective against Eastasian PolymerArmor.
* There has been an accompanying graphical change.
I hope that these changes will serve to balance the Katyusha and relegate it to a rear-line unit effective against structures and infantry, rather than the all-purpose base razer/tank destroyer that it was used for in tests.

Zombies

These are Zombies, predominantly used by Yuri (Elite Virus turns her victims into these guys) and encountered in some "BioHazard"-style maps as roaming wildlife. Eastasia and Third Power may also make use of zombies on maps or campaign (Nazi Zombies and Unit 731/Farcry allusions cannot be passed up on!), but they won't be part of the normal unit roster of these factions, I think.) Zombies act much as you'd expect - they grab infantry and attempt to <Bite>, transmitting the virus. Humans that die from a zombie attack will be transformed into zombies. They can also headbutt vehicle windscreens, dealing miniscule damage, but since you cannot actively control zombies (unless I make that a special game mode?) and they are too stupid to consider anything that is not recognizably in possession of human BRAINZ!!! a target, they will not normally attack vehicles. They cannot attack buildings at all.

Zombies cannot be killed by small arms fire, although they can be brought to 1 HP. In order to kill them for good, they have to be gibbed with explosives, dissolved in acid, burnt, zapped, vaporized by lasers... you get the idea. Anything that kills with a DeathAnim.

While you cannot directly control the zombies you have "turned", they will not attack your own forces. Zombies are also story-wise related to other "altered" lifeforms and these will be mutually non-aggressive with each other (e.g. Brutes, Visceroids).

* BRAINS!: Zombies are highly aggressive against humans, attacking on sight.
* Nobrainer: Zombies are too stupid to consider vehicles as containing humans. Therefore, vehicles are generally safe from their predation.
* Lifesense, not Common Sense: Zombies can detect living organisms through stealth. However, they cannot see through the disguise of someone faking to be a zombie...
* Keep calm and aim for the head: While it's generally true that zombies shake off bullet fire, there is one exception: a steady hand, such as a Sniper may possess, goes a long way in scoring a critical hit to the creature's cerebrum, instantly taking the 'un' out of 'undead'.
* Best before...: Shambling masses of rotting meat, zombies do not generally have a very long shelf-life in your forces. If they are available, they must be used decisively, as their HP gradually rots away and they eventually deteriorate into soil as any other corpse.

Alternate design?:

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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently trying to solve the rather theoretical problem of finding a consistent notation of the various sides' buildings:
1) Customarily, the first letter of a building art ID denotes the Side (default: G,N,C,Y)
2) Hardcodedly, the second letter of a building art ID denotes the theater the art is used in (A,D,G,T,U).
3) In Continuum, many Countries have unique versions of buildings of their Side. Since I cannot use the second letter to identify the particular subfaction of a building because of 2), where else should the owning subfaction be denoted?
4) The only case in which vanilla RA2/YR has an example of this is AMRADR, which uses the GAAIRC art and hence does not run into the problem of having to use the second letter of the ID for denoting the theater and can use the first two letters to denote the Country in the rulesmd.ini
5) Of course, it would be simple enough to just include a new first letter for the IDs of the buildings of each subfaction, even if they are part of a Side with a different first letter, but is that how it should be done? Might run into problems with shared first letters here (although, of course, a first letter does not have to be related to the Country name itself, nor does every Country need its own unique first letter).

Still, it would be nice if I could find a clean notation of country-specific structures, although the rest of the "team" is less enthusiastic about that aspect!

In other news, started introducing the Asian "scenery":


Also:
* Ashigaru renamed to the more generic "Footman".
* Ashigaru and Firelancer now have the "Nightfighter" tag, meaning they will not receive a Speed, Sight and Range penalty on Nighttime maps. Firelancer's attack illuminates its target for all friendly units, too.
* Ashigaru and Firelancer now have "Junglefighter" tag, meaning they will not receive a Speed, Sight and Range penalty on maps tagged "Jungle" and will gain a Stealth bonus on such maps.
* ShadowHand have the Nightfighter II tag, meaning they will not receive a Speed, Sight and Range penalty on Night maps and gain a bonus to Cloak on Night maps.
* All Black Guard infantry gained the "Fanatic" tag, meaning they will gain combat bonuses when their comrades around them fall.

Kirov Battlecruiser

The replacement for the vanilla Dreadnought, and pretty much identical in function. Unlike the Dreadnoughts, Kirovs carry ship-to-ship missiles as well, making them somewhat more effective in naval battles. As a tradeoff, their cruise missiles are much weaker than those of the Dreadnoughts. Kirovs are as fast as the Allied Cruiser, which lets them keep a safe distance from heavier ships, such as Battleships, from where they can utilize their superior range to sink their opponents. Despite equal firepower, Kirovs are inferior in armor to battleships and should avoid confrontation with them at gun range.

Bombing

Implemented the probably most simplistic of the Command Abilities of the Allies - it calls in a large bomber to the target area or object. The bomber drops a line of high-damage explosive bombs, then flies off again. Bombers can be shot down, but they fly at somewhat higher altitudes than the 'tactical' aircraft that can be built by the player and many anti-aircraft weapons are not effective at that range.
Bombing is upgraded to Carpet Bombing by upgrading the Science Institute with the Upgrade "Aerial Warfare Lv. 3".

Scientist

The Scientist will emerge as a survivor from tech centers (and their faction-specific equivalents) when destroyed. They can also be found as civilians on some maps. The Scientist is unarmed, unarmored, weak and slow, with long-range sensor equipment as his only feature of any utility in the field. However, the main purpose of this unit is to serve as a valuable bounty for other players. A captured Scientist can be sent to one's own tech center and there converted to unlock a random technology of the Country of his original owner. This technology can be an infantry unit, vehicle, aircraft, building, upgrade, superweapon.
While functional, this feature is convoluted and hack-ily implemented right now, I hope I can come up with a cleaner implementation.

  • Sending a Scientist into an IFV will convert it into a sensor vehicle.
  • Sending a Scientist into a Bunker will convert it into a sensor post.

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Last edited by Millennium on Sat May 28, 2016 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Trans_C
AA Infantry


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere in China

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you should at least remove the GenChina faction symbol on the construction yard.
......But the best option imo is to learn 3dsmax and make a new one.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I think I'm nearing the point in the development now where I can consider learning to make buildings.
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Millennium
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allied 'HELIOS' satellite, two variants thereof

High-Energy Laser IntraOrbital Station - yes, a terrible acronym, but since I managed to make the very fitting name 'HELIOS' an acronym that is at least not completely absurd, I will keep it.
(Previously, this was the SOL - Satellite Orbital Laser. Also a fitting name, and a not-all-that-absurd acronym).
This is a sort of Allied 'hero' unit, it can be built by an Allied player once per match. Even if shot down, it cannot be built again. The HELIOS floats at high altitude over the field of battle, impervious to interceptor aircraft and most ground-based anti-air defenses. Hovering above its target, it requires a brief moment to charge its laser, which then fires a devastating beam vertically downward (the verticality is something that still has to be... optimized, as can be seen in the right part of the screenshot).
When attacking groups of units, the HELIOS will use a shower of weaker laser beams that spread over a larger area.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Started implementing the Latin Confederation units for the first part of the American campaign, which is supposed to be an US intervention in the Mexican Civil War of 2021 in order to stop drug trafficking and the expansion of Mexican crime syndicates into the US.
(The idea predates the recent developments in Mexico by several years and I hope it will not turn out to be prophetic.)

(So much for no serious mod ever using that SHP!)




Hm... although the color scheme looks fitting enough for the infantry, perhaps Latin American vehicles should get a deep jungle green color pattern instead?
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously with capes? :S
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a poncho, isn't it? I thought it was meant to be a poncho!
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G-E
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless they are ornery villagers, the actual Mexican soldiers wore standard European style regalia, with silly hats and dress coats back in the day... today they look like any old black-green attired soldier.

I understand if you want to give them some ethnic flare, but a monocolour poncho isn't the way haha Smile
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AA Infantry


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere in China

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ponchoman looks HUEG compared with other infantry. Considering that they are crouching and still much higher than the machinegun man below, they must be 3 meters tall at least. Even the mighty SPESS MEHREENs aren't this HUEG.
You should shrink the shp a bit.
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deathreaperz
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Joined: 20 May 2013
Location: Creativity Corp, ID Division

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satellite below the atmosphere? Surprised
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes, it should be shrunk. All of the infantry sizes will be adjusted on some future pass.

Quote:

Unless they are ornery villagers, the actual Mexican soldiers wore standard European style regalia, with silly hats and dress coats back in the day... today they look like any old black-green attired soldier.

I understand if you want to give them some ethnic flare, but a monocolour poncho isn't the way haha

Well, they are indeed supposed to be irregulars/partisans. Obviously, yes, the Mexican Army does not use sombreros and ponchos as uniforms.

Quote:

Satellite below the atmosphere?

HELIOS will get a pretty high flight altitude, but yes, it'll be within the height of the map itself. I could excuse myself by pointing out that, considering that you could even see Drop Pods entering the atmosphere in TS at what looked like a few feet above ground level, it seems that we can assume that within a given map, the upper boundary of the atmosphere is actually depicted as being pretty low... but you are right, it's something I should consider removing or replacing with a unit that is more plausibly operating within the airspace of a battlefield.

Civilian Planes

Maps which include a civilian airport will now be periodically criss-crossed by civilian air traffic, to add some atmosphere.
Civilian aircraft can also be shot down, for some veterancy and, if playing the right side, some money.
(and massive loss of civilian lives and -10 Karma!)
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Algerian Major
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Drinking Vodka with Lenin, Stalin and Putin

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've always liked your mod man, and I have some ideas for you:

Maybe the civilian plane can be hijacked, the plane will be a suicide weapon, so we can have an interesting 9/11

What about giving the third power a submersible aircraft carrier, Germany was very known by their U-Boats, but also Japan with it's I-400 which could carry see planes, I get the submersible carrier would fit the third power as it is part of the allies AFAIK.
The proposed name for it is :" Atlantis "

Just look for the Hrimfaxi from ace combat, you'll know what I mean.

Well I would be glad to help in the development of this mod , you can contact me if I can help .Until then

Have a great day

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brotherhood already has a hijacked passenger plane superweapon. I'm not sure how flying planes can be hijacked, but were it not for that limitation, your idea would be a great addition.
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Algerian Major
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 07 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if the map have an airport, there most be a plane on the ground, hijacking accomplished lol

For more ideas, the IS-3 tank looks neat in real life, what if the Apocalypse is replaced by the IS3 visually, the Is-3 was a heavy tank indeed and what if it was upgraded according to your timeline, say for example the IS-10, which looks like the IS-3 with bigger duel cannon and AA igla missiles

Other idea might be the BREXIT event, what if the BREXIT happened? The third power taking over Europe, that would be an interesting twist.

And since you're making an east Asia faction, I guess it should be a technological superior, nano comes in mind, and they should have a decent aeronaval force, aircraft carriers!!
Kamikazes as main planes for the carriers
The oxha rocket kamikaze planes can also be used for the eastern Asia faction


Have A great day btw

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Well, if the map have an airport, there most be a plane on the ground, hijacking accomplished lol

Interesting idea. Certainly something to go back to when mapping.

Quote:

For more ideas, the IS-3 tank looks neat in real life, what if the Apocalypse is replaced by the IS3 visually, the Is-3 was a heavy tank indeed and what if it was upgraded according to your timeline, say for example the IS-10, which looks like the IS-3 with bigger duel cannon and AA igla missiles

This already exists. IS-10, aka "Stalin's Fist", is the Continuum equivalent of the Apocalypse Tank and the upgrade of the real-life IS-3. RA2's Apocalypse almost looks like an IS series tank anyways. My IS-10 doesn't have dual guns, though. It's something of a clumsy, very heavily armored howitzer that is not actually of much use in tank-vs-tank combat (consistent with how heavy tanks in general, and the IS series in particular, became less and less useful in the latter half of the 20th century). But it's highly effective as a breakthrough unit against fortifications. And you _can_ upgrade it with a second gun. And with AA missiles.

Quote:

Other idea might be the BREXIT event, what if the BREXIT happened? The third power taking over Europe, that would be an interesting twist.

I've not thought about this! Actually, I feel that the Third Power fits less and less into the world of the mod and that Europe should rather be a US puppet, but I might find a way to reimplement it.

Quote:

And since you're making an east Asia faction, I guess it should be a technological superior, nano comes in mind, and they should have a decent aeronaval force, aircraft carriers!! Kamikazes as main planes for the carriers

Carriers are an Allied thing, but of course, nothing speaks against Eastasia having their own version thereof. So far, the Eastasian navy includes a Submarine Carrier (works like an Aircraft Carrier, but spawns little submarines instead of planes), a submarine, a rocket ship and a pretty generic autocannon gunboat.

Quote:

The oxha rocket kamikaze planes can also be used for the eastern Asia faction

They already have a modern version of that. It's called Firefly and is shown on one of the previous pages of the thread. It's called in by a superweapon though, not regularly buildable.

I will write you later about the co-op message you sent me, I have found more people who have expressed interest.

Speak of navy,
Navy Update:

Cruiser

Although the Cruiser is a vessel intended for ship-to-ship combat, its powerful dual 8-inch guns lack the accuracy and rate of fire to take on small and mobile foes, such as gunboats. The Cruiser excels in engaging other large, valuable vessels and in shore bombardment.
* Elite Cruisers will periodically launch cruise missiles in addition to firing their guns, if their target is land-bound.
* Cruisers have decent anti-aircraft guns, but they are insufficient against bombers, which means that they have to rely on the airscreen provided by Carriers when operating away from friendly shores. They also have no way to defend against submarines - always escort these ships with Destroyers.

Battleship

I'm not quite sure yet how to differentiate the Battleship from the Cruiser in terms of armament, but this is supposed to be a dominant unit in ship-to-ship combat, exceeding the Cruiser's capability in that regard, while being less effective against land-based targets. Perhaps this unit will get a set of railguns (which would fit with the real-life U.S. initiative to research and deploy railguns for naval combat).

And for the Brotherhood:
Bombship

A graphical overhaul scheduled for this unit is already a done deal.
Pretty much just that - a Bombtruck, but on water. Like its landbound counterpart, the Bombship can disguise as a civilian vessel. Bombships are cost-effective against capital and cargo ships and offshore installations, but would be wasted against smaller craft, such as gunboats. They also lack the capability to attack any landbound target (save for fortuitious splash damage). Note that these vessels are very fragile and cannot take much damage before detonating, which means that they are suited for ambushes rather than rushes.
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Trans_C
AA Infantry


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere in China

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really wondering how the Midget-submarine carrier can be implemented with original YR or ARES.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's already done, it's just aircraft with some locomotor hackery.

Submarine Carrier

It does have a few problems: Spawns will not update their position when the Spawner moves after they re-entered it and Spawns will not be destroyed when the Spawner is destroyed. But I think these are fixable.
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Millennium
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That a faction needs access to Spies in order to obtain enemy technology (or else, obtain outright access to another faction's build tree) seems to place boundaries either on design options (all factions need spies) or tactical options (some factions have no access to enemy technology, or only in a very roundabout way). Ares already adds another pre-made way of obtaining enemy technology (through reverse engineering).
I'm currently working on a third way to grant a player additional technologies, by capturing enemy scientists.
Conceptually, and non-tested, it would work like so:

  • Each faction has its own particular type of Scientist as survivor of its tech structure.
  • Certain units can capture these Scientists (Abductor or MC).
  • Each faction's tech center has a list of SWs. Each of these SWs requires a certain faction's Scientist, owned by the owner of the tech center, as target. The range of these SWs is limited to just around the structure itself.
  • When a captured Scientist of a faction is brought close to a another faction's tech center, the tech center will fire the appropriate SW at him.
  • The SW makes the scientist disappear (perhaps in some flashy technology-themed animation) and instead places an invisible SecretLab structure in his place.
  • The Secret Lab structure grants one of a number of units or structures characteristic of the originating faction of the Scientist that the SW was fired upon (ex. if fired on a Soviet Scientist, Katyusha tech might be granted).
  • The structure promptly self-destructs.
  • Because each captured Scientist in this way only grants a single unit or structure of its original faction to its capturer, the list of technologies possibly obtained from another faction in this way are not exhausted by capturing a single scientist. Players are therefore encouraged to repeat the process to capture the full range of technologies that can be obtained from another faction.


I realize that this is a convoluted method, but this way, fewer factions will have to relinquish the ability to obtain enemy technology, while making the process tactically and functionally varied between factions.

Another project currently undertaken, and relevant mostly to lore and less to gameplay, is the revision of terminology to reflect the vocabulary of an altered timeline.

Edit:

Exploring the .mixes!

Edit2:
What would be the best way to implement carpet bombardment? Cluster bombs seem too simple. Air-bursting bombs with cluster bomblets? Maybe. Or air-dropped dummy units that self-destruct on the way down and burst into debris?
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Keeper
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 06 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sub carrier voxel is a WIP, right?

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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, sure.
It's just a proof-of-concept thing.
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Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could give scientists an armour type and have heavy units have a mind control secondary that only works on scientists.

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