Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:33 pm Post subject:
Issue with Versus.X custom targeting flags
I suspected this for a long time but I just tested it explicitely and came to the result that using Versus.X.ForceFire/Retaliate/PassiveAcquire=no on a warhead prevents a unit from firing on the forbidden target with any other weapon as well. Can anyone else confirm this issue?
If so, is this intentional? Is there a fix planned in any foreseeable version?
Edit:
To clarify:
* The weapon with the 'forbidden' warhead was the Primary weapon.
* I have gotten these results on a VehicleType and an AircraftType. Last edited by Millennium on Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:37 pm Post subject:
I don't see why is this a bug. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:40 pm Post subject:
Because you might want to use those tags to tell a unit to use its secondary against a certain type of target.
For example, you have a tank with a main gun and a machine gun. The main gun's splash damage should damage infantry who stand too close to an impact, but the tank should never use its main gun to engage infantry - if defending against infantry, it should always retaliate with its machine gun.
Right now, this is not possible - if the Versus tags from one warhead get applied to all weapons of a unit, the tank can never use its machine gun if it can't use its main gun. They might as well be per-unit flags then, not per-warhead flags.
Edit:
Actually, I'm going to try now what happens if one warhead forbids a certain target, but the other explicitly ALLOWS it...
Editedit:
No dice... Primary seems to take precedence. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:52 pm Post subject:
In your above case you can make the machinegun the primary weapon and the main gun the fallback. Since firing the MG itself versus tanks in bonkers, the issue is solved.
EDIT: You could also use airburst logic to split targeting verses from actually damage delivering verses but it could be laggy on a bigger scale.
What you seeming unable to grasp that just because you set those flags, you still didn't make the verses to 0% thereby the game logic still deduces that the target is viable to that weapon. Yes, I see you aim towards an efficiency-based weapon selection, but this engine doesn't have such and those flags are not for that. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:21 pm Post subject:
MG as primary has issues with walls/pathfinding...
but yes, you're probably right that this simply exceeds the limitations of the engine.
Your airburst method is interesting and I think for the particular purpose I have here (it's not a tank gun), I will use that method.
But:
Quote:
What you seeming unable to grasp that just because you set those flags, you still didn't make the verses to 0% thereby the game logic still deduces that the target is viable to that weapon.
...I don't understand... my issue isn't that the game considers them VIABLE targets... it's that it DOESN'T consider them to be so, for all weapons. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Post your warheads you're having trouble with. I just tested what I think is similar to what you're going for and it worked fine.
Code:
; general multiple small arms fire (undeployed GI)
[SA]
;DB Changed how Plate interacts with this warhead on 6/6. See also AP warhead.
;Verses=100%,80%,70%,50%,25%,25%,75%,50%,25%,100%,100%
Verses=100%,80%,80%,50%,25%,25%,75%,50%,25%,100%,100%
InfDeath=1
AnimList=PIFFPIFF,PIFFPIFF
Bullets=yes
ProneDamage=70%
; DOES target units
; DOESN'T target buildings, but if the undeployed GI is firing on an empty
cell and a building is placed there, the building takes damage
;super AP shot (deployed GI)
[SSA]
;DB Changed how Plate interacts with this warhead on 6/6. See also AP warhead.
;Verses=100%,100%,70%,60%,40%,40%,75%,50%,25%,100%,100%
Verses=100%,100%,100%,60%,40%,40%,75%,50%,25%,100%,100%
InfDeath=1
AnimList=PIFFPIFF,PIFFPIFF
;Bright=yes
Bullets=yes
ProneDamage=80%
; DOES target buildings
; DOESN'T target units, but if a vehicle moves onto an empty cell the
deployed GI is firing at, the vehicle takes damage
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:00 pm Post subject:
I think DeployFire makes units use certain weapons in its own way, it might interfere/override Versus.X flags. Your test is interesting for certain infantry/vehicle units for sure. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
[HTNK]
Primary=120mm
Secondary=Para ; a machine gun
[AP] ;warhead for 120mm
…
Versus.none.PassiveAcquire=no
Versus.none.ForceFire=no
Versus.none.Retaliate=no
… will lead to neither primary or secondary weapon firing against infantry with Armor=none, no matter what the verses are for secondary.
If [AP] has 0% for "none" armor, the unit will use it's Secondary against that armor. But if it's a "normal" value, like 25%, I guess the unit will not use the Secondary weapon as the Primary one has priority, and then will not use Primary because of these tags. So, it will not fire.
I agree, it's not a major bug, as it can be "tweaked" in various ways - an attached weapon to the projectile, as you suggested, will work. But still, this remains a bug, as the tags from one weapon should stop only This_Weapon from Passive Aquiring, Force Firing or Retaliating against certain targets, not any other weapon(s) the unit might have. QUICK_EDIT
As said, game not have logic to actually decide a weapon to use any other way than its either 0% so use secondary or else I stick with primary no matter what you try tell it with extra ARES commands.
It's not a bug as such as it was never designed to value weapon choice based on verses on that level or range differencies to choose accordingly, more rather its design limitation, so yeah expecting too much here presently. QUICK_EDIT
You do have the controls of Primary warheads skipping some targets yet still damaging them etc, but it's just more complex than applying those tags which are clearly not for that. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
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Issue with Versus.X custom targeting flags
