And well that's why the Soviets used the more realistic Dark Olive Green they use in RL in RA3 though. The Empire obviously had a more futuristic theme with Japanese Architecture fitted all over their structures as well.
Just wondering were the ugly beige color for RA2's soviet came from? I do like the fan recreations that ditch it (especially the WW cutscene blue steel Apoc) _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:47 pm Post subject:
Feel free to help yourself to my Eastasia faction units, if you are interested in any in particular, I'll share the code too. I like having cross-continuity references.
My mod also has an Eastasia faction that is Japan/China/Korea combined, with pretty much a similar background story to yours (except the Soviet Union exists pretty much intact still.
Other than that - maybe someone has said this before, I didn't read the entire thread - look at Eagle Red for inspiration maybe, it has an Asian faction that is very "down to earth" and doesn't go overboard with unrealistic samurai-looking mechas and all that. Plus, it has great resources, I'm not sure if anyone who made that mod is still active in the community, but if they are, maybe they will let you use some of their assets.
Another thing I would like to point out for faction design is that simply because a certain technology appears in the FICTION that comes from a certain part of the world, it does not have to be considered as part of a fictional REPRESENTATION of that part of the world... let me just try to explain that with mecha, perhaps the Gundams that were mentioned.
Gundam is an anime franchise, so it would be natural to associate Gundams with a fictional representation of Japan (like they did when they designed RA3). However... WITHIN the Gundam franchise, those mechas aren't Japanese. They are... Terran... or Colonial. Not belonging to any particular nation, but being a common technology used by all of humanity.
My mod had Wave Motion Cannons for its Asian faction because Space Battleship Yamato was a Japanese fiction, until I realized that any faithful depiction would seem very much out of place - since the original Yamato WMC uses vacuum energy converted to tachyons, iirc. Nothing else in my Asian faction approaches the tech level necessary for harnessing vacuum energy or even measuring tachyons. Then I realized that my Asian faction ought NOT to have WMCs, because within Space Battleship Yamato, that was not a Japanese, or even Human, technology at all - the vacuum powerplant, the tachyon conversion, the tachyon-wave FTL drive and the WMC were all of alien origin. Just because it's in Japanese fiction, it doesn't have to mean that it's Japanse IN fiction.
I think if you try to include all these things that exist across a broad spectrum of japanese sci-fi, you end up with a very schizo-tech faction - for example, Ghost in the Shell (which I've settled on as the basis for my tech level), has mechas, as does Bubblegum Crisis - but they are a far cry from the super-powered things you see in Gundam. Yes, they may have the same "category" ("mecha anime"!) and same general shape, but they are so different that that is all they share. A single Gundam, faithfully simulated in the RA2 engine, could probably beat an entire Soviet army.
I'd also like to upvote Lefthand's posts in this thread, but this forum doesn't allow it. So - think yourself upvoted. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Vacuum energy converted to tachyons, aether and low-interactive superluminal particles somehow making a super beam weapon! huzzah!
when you look at anime, then yeah, there's a lot of various mecha as japan's military, or humanoid superweapons (saikano) or loads of pseudo-technological semi-magical characters like in kyoukai senjou, or magical girls (of numerous different kinds)...
There isn't actually a whole lot of legitimate sci-fi anime when you really think about it haha. Some japanese stuff is really realistic when it comes to right up-to-date science, and some stuff is just ridiculous technobabble lol. Anime have a habit of making personal stories, so upscaled war and stuff isn't very common, and there is usually mecha due to obligation/fanservice.
When people think japan they usually think history, or anime, or robots.
although in red alert context, it's taking the historical version then adding eccentricity and advanced technology. usually in fiction japan has either mecha or spaceships or superpowered people with either magic or nanosuits or something that lets them punch a tank into oblivion. I intend to avoid a lot of that (well largely because any of the above could cream a conventional army, due to magical whatever-ness, like mecha being impossibly agile and having infinite ammo missiles and radical anti-everything-except-shields beam cannons)... and this is where i'm treading into fresh territory.
Keeping it within the semi-conventional army sensibility, but more alternate-tech like the RA2 allies/sovs, think d-day japan except... technologized, and not 'mechanized'. Exo-suits can have their applications but they're not almighty. Really well built tank vs an armoured exo-suit mech thing, the tank would still win unless it couldn't hit it. Although if it was a completely modern build, using railgun firing mechanism and airburst semi-guided smart-shells, it doesn't really matter that much how ninja the exo-suit user is. That said, why use a tank when you can just flyby.
Again, i'm after a heart-and-soul of japan thing here. something based on war era japan but has more of the traditionalist soul, and not completely flamboyant. Though i don't necessary intend on going nuts with naval, unless someone wants to make a large deployable yamato or something, with heavy artillery and flak spam (would be befitting of the hero-unit faction concept)
I'd probably end up implementing railguns/gauss in my mod as well, not sure for who or how, definitely not TS/Quake shoot through walls railguns though, probably use it as a white laser with condensation particle trail, ofc AP impact anims.
The intention is to -not- copycat fiction and anime to make this faction, as neither allies or soviets in red alert 2 were based on other fiction, other than tropes they used. The only time i find using japanese media things is in very limited specific circumstances and depends on how i feel about that particular unit/character. But i have no intention of hijacking arsenal from tv shows or games.
I've considered using touhou characters possibly if i wanted to do something completely different and not go technological but go magic/supernatural instead, but again it'd still need japanese traditionalism, and if it's magic then you could go full on traditional without strengthened buildings and tech.
So 3 possible routes for this faction:
-Conventional militaresque faction like the stock Allies and Soviets with japanese flair, and RA2-level tech. (possibly more sci-fi)
-Hero unit faction with very limited reproducible arsenal and a lot of tough 1-off units and characters, and RA2-level tech. (possibly more sci-fi)
-Hero unit faction, maybe a bit more reproducible arsenal, with 1-off magical-styled units, and non-technology but simply traditionalist instead.
If i wanted to go nuts, i might even end up stealing the volcanic theatre from SWGB as well, i also got some mountain models i'm considering making into overlays from that, including an open volcano (i have volcanic eruption effects too for some reasons...) _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
So you want Traditional AND High Tech, but with no embelishing or over the topness? But still keeping the Spirit of the old war and the Sci fi ness of the new stuff?
Are you trying to have a serious faction in RA2 setting? because I still think the Giant Squid has a few words (haHA Double Topical) Unless you plan to re do the factions remaining.(Onion domes anyone?) _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
Well, if you cut out yuri, the allies and soviets weren't all that eccentric. The giant squid was silly, but most other units were fairly sensible as alternate reality logic goes. I'll probably take out the dolphins and squids though.
I do intend to modify the existing factions somewhat, just not a whole lot. I like allies the way they are, just with some extra fixes, soviets needed a bit more tactical stuff than just armour. and yuri is silly XD _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
Also, adding "magic" to an otherwise modern/sci-fi setting is possible - you could combine both. Yuri and Yuriko are... what are they? Take away the modern-ish term "psionics", and they're mages. You could maybe combine other kinds of "magical" units with a modern-ish setting if you just say "well, yes, that's a psychically-gifted girl and her psychic powers manifest as rainbows and colorful bubbles, because that's what's on her mind". _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Haha, don't get me started on neural-interfaced EMK . . . that literally is reality-booting of what is on your mind. A realist application of psychokinetics is more akin to when you have abnormal control over a normally automated muscle . . . It's like extending your body's natural EM field to manipulate kinetic energies XD
In fiction trope context, sure they're more or less magical beings.
Only Dr.Evil puts laser beams on the heads of marine life. A sonic weapon on a dolphin would probably disable or kill it anyways. Because of, you know, that whole physics thing. (you can't really make completely unidirectional sonic weaponry, especially in the sea, it'll spread and disperse)
But yeah, definitely wanting the traditional japanese architecture as the inspirational basis for the buildings, at the very least the roofs, and having the rest of the building at least look like that roof should be there and not just thrown on top like a hat XD _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject:
Just to get clear on something rq, for me personally. Your Japanese are supposed to invade RA2's universe from another dimention, is that correct?
And you are into physics, correct? Do you believe in multiple universes, ie many-worlds interpretation? Do you think that's a real thing that applies to our real world? _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Haha, assuming multiple verses exist, one cannot pass through the metaverse to get to anther one, cuz you'd have to cease to exist, because existence would be relative to a universe. The Red Alert universe is already nonsense. So it's just an alternate retelling, if Japan never got a-bombed and was the 3rd party in the "not-so-cold war". Same as RA3, except not needing to worry about whether it happened due to a time machine or some nonsense, it merely is.
In fiction, every different story is it's own universe. In that context, yes there are many universes, as many as there are stories. It's simply to be in the form of an alternate retelling of the same thing with different initial conditions. Instead of the rise of this terrible character of an antagonist called Yuri, we have the Land of the Rising Sun, Nippon.
(I mean the whole design of the yuri faction is kinda fun, but the premise is so bad lol)
If i were to go full-bore and make a mod with my story's universe, even the thought of attempting to put it into this game's engine is absolutely hilarious. It's not possible XD You'd need something that trumps Star Citizen in ambition. So i go simple and not excessively detailed instead.
Just a faction that's Japan. Something more 'interesting' than WW2, and something less silly than RA3 Empire. Somewhere in the middle. I've described what i'm after, but i'm not going nuts with the story, i got my own story for story work. Just wanting a decently made Japan faction that will be enjoyable to play. _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
The Dolphins did exist during the Vietnam War as Mine Detectors along with Sea Lions.
The Giant Squid is straight up Sci-Fi since Squids of that size cannot survive on the depth the units normally travel in the game.
BTW I meant MadHQ previously on the guy who made an Empire SHP. But as I said he's kinda hard to contact and I doubt he's planning on releasing that set since its from 2012. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
I may even consider removing or altering the tactical superweapons. I never liked base-rapers. They take the fun out of the game because then it's just who can keep their nuke alive long enough to use... Strategic SW's like iron curtain and chrono are pretty awesome though... I might keep the nuke for sovs however, and make it a long cd.
Trouble would be thinking up something for japan faction to use...
Explanation for the nuke thing could be perhaps, americans started working on nukes, and then scrapped it for chrono, in the meantime russians kept working on nuclear project. (chrono-ing battle fortresses with legionnaires in them is much more scary anyways) _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
Strategic SW's like iron curtain and chrono are pretty awesome though... I might keep the nuke for sovs however, and make it a long cd.
Trouble would be thinking up something for japan faction to use...
I've thought about using an ion-cannon-like super weapon that would produce a devastating direct hit but leave behind...
A) Residue Flame Particles Effect - The particles would randomly spread across the map and would either extinguish over a long period of time or the particles would have an endless looping animation.
B) A Wide AOE - The kinetic energy of the blast would severely damage all units within a radius.
C) A mixture of both.
Another idea was to use an elite unit instead of a super weapon. The Asian faction could specially produce a single mecha unit (i.e. Mammoth Tank mk2, Mothership, etc.) that could do a formidable amount of damage before being destroyed. Naturally, it would have a built limit of one. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:44 am Post subject:
There are lots of possibilites for support powers that work like SW's but are a little bit lower on the power ladder. Both my own mod and another person's mod that I'm working on have independently developed a command ability that controls enemy vehicles for their Japan-themed countries/factions. Or you could have the classic "Money Hack" ability that was seen in... one of the first MO versions.
Or some more exotic things... one of my faction has a "Survival of the Fittest" kinda thing, whenever it fires, it checks the map for any of your units in critical HP and destroys them. All the surviving units get a permanent stat bonus.
Or maybe you could have an "Augment" ability, you pay some money, and for that, your target units are upgraded in some way. I personally did it (not in the current version of my mod) on infantry only, the infantry would be turned into cyborg versions of themselves. You may find a different explanation and scope for it.
Also as for the nuke, I think it can become very strategic if you remove the damage and make the radiation more long-lasting, making it an area denial tool. It would stop being a base razer, but it would force your opponent to deal with a large area of impassability, possibly impaired factory production, etc. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Last edited by Millennium on Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:09 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
I never liked base-rapers. They take the fun out of the game because then it's just who can keep their nuke alive long enough to use...
"Base rapers" prevent turtle tactics and force players to attack.
But indeed with the absurd game speed issues of RA2, these superweapons just recharge too fast.
For Japan, though, a huge wave of Final Squadron, as in RA3, can do. These kamikaze planes are drones anyway so no controversies.
(To code this SW in YR however is somewhat complicated. Airstrike Superweapon send planes in, planes fire their limbolaunch weapon with an inaccurate arcing projectile, since kamikazes crashing all accurately to a single point looks just bad. This way is problematic, though, because arcing projectiles launched from something in the air act weird and you'll have to carefully play around several parameters to make these plane realistically crash, in the right place, and do reasonable damage.) But these drones also strafe all things they fly by with a gun in RA3... Then you need to give the plane itself a trailer anim spawning invisible debris, which is using PIFF attached with a sound of machinegun for its explosion animination. The plane's voxel, with its primaryFLH, then should be moved backwards in a large number, since according to the common sense planes should strafe somewhere in front of it...and trailer anim only spawn in the dead center of the unit.)
Now, with all these babbles around a seemingly simple design of "kamikaze plane superweapon", you might understand why kenosis held such an attitude...
Btw some of Kenosis's ini works are much more complicated than this. Remember that Yuyuko shooting white balls upwards and then burst into colourful butterflies? These butterflies automatically home in on their targets so it's not a simple airburst weapon. In fact it's a much more complex process.
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:30 am Post subject:
Well, this is maybe not the right place to talk about that other thread... but I don't mind kenosis' attitude really. He's probably right about many things, but I feel his criticism of my coding is kind of misplaced. I can do complex coding too (maybe not on his level, though) and I would help with some complex things (like the terrain-changing SWs I'm doing for RedRes now), but I feel sometimes simple is the best. But of course I get where he is coming from when he refers to CODING creativity, and he is certainly very very very good at that.
On topic:
I've tried to do exactly what you have mentioned, via trailer anims to simulate gunfire, etc. However because in my case only a single unit was launched, I eventually discarded it for more simple coding, since the inaccuracy was not really needed. If I would try it again under the guideline of having to give the unit inaccuracy, I would make it via an invisible SW.Animation that deals damage that AffectsAllies=yes, AffectsEnemies=no and only damages the kamikaze drone's armor type. Then give the kamikaze drone a regular weapon with Range=255, ProjectileRange=0 and a projectile that Splits=yes, AirburstWeapon=some_machine_gun.
Drone enters map, shoots directly at stuff all the while it flies towards its target, gets close to target, is killed off by SW.Animation, crashes in an arc.
I'm not sure if it works, the crashing drones may behave erratically and how far and accurate they fly will depend on their Speed=, but that's how I'd try it.
Or another idea for a support power:
Extra Weapon Upgrade!
Give some/all of your units a hidden secondary which absorbs infantry, then give them a hidden Passengers setting and OpenTopped=yes. The secondary weapon only works against a certain armor, lets say special_3, but mind-controls absorbed units. The main weapon does not work against special_3. Then make a SW which creates a group of invisible infantry not owned by you. Those infantry have some sort of vehicle-ish type of weapon, maybe a missile launcher, and have an "expiry date" via AE. Use the SW to spawn those units near your vehicles. The vehicles absorb them, gaining an additional weapon in the process.
(This is assuming a "prison" vehicle cannot be entered by passengers the 'normal' (ie enter cursor) way, otherwise it would be very strange) _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Then give the kamikaze drone a regular weapon with Range=255, ProjectileRange=0 and a projectile that Splits=yes, AirburstWeapon=some_machine_gun.
Drone enters map, shoots directly at stuff all the while it flies towards its target, gets close to target, is killed off by SW.Animation, crashes in an arc.
Crashing aircraft in RA2 doesn't look like a kamikaze...They rotate when falling and that's why I suppose using a arcing weapon.
And since I don't use Ares so I'm not sure whether aircraft called in by SpyPlane SW can choose its target freely, although according to the manual it can be set "on guard".
Btw NP_Ext doesn't have stuff like Splits from Firestorm. But since almost everyone uses Ares here so it's not a problem I think. _________________ Aka DirtyChicken QUICK_EDIT
I never liked base-rapers. They take the fun out of the game because then it's just who can keep their nuke alive long enough to use...
"Base rapers" prevent turtle tactics and force players to attack.
But indeed with the absurd game speed issues of RA2, these superweapons just recharge too fast.
No it doesn't. Bases in this game are way squishy, i even upped their hp and certain structure's armour type like powerplants... The only thing that's exceptionally hard to rush is yuri with spams of mc towers and cobbled gattling. If ur opponent is turtling they're focused on surviving instead of having a good match.
Again, really well used Chrono Legionnaires are scarier than any superweapon.. but the SW's are just lazy point and click and watch the fireworks. i don't like it. Chronosphere + battle fortress + chrono legionnaires = erasure in a can. You might as well have just scrin mothership'd their base.
Trans_C wrote:
For Japan, though, a huge wave of Final Squadron, as in RA3, can do. These kamikaze planes are drones anyway so no controversies.
I don't care about the controversy so much, it's a fact that they did kamakaze. But anyways, i didn't like that special weapon in RA3 that much either, i rather just use my units really well than rely on silly special powers.
Hence why i like Iron Curtain and Chronosphere, because they act as boon rather than a big fat explodey thing. They enhance ur units and make you use them strategically. Nuke and Lightning Storm, and Dominator are just tactical blow up everything under crosshair nonsense. It's not fun to play. Even when i play like really intense matches with friends in C&C3, we often agree no SW, because then we find we're making way better use of our units.
Everyone hates when shit falls from the sky and half their base is gone.
PS: Ares can make aircraft not do that spinning gaily through the air when they crash nonsense. Now that i've decided to take up Ares, i'm really liking all these thing si can do with it that are almost like, you should be able to do these things normally...
In my secret labs experimenting, i've done a lot of stuff like enable cloak crates, and given crates a higher spawn rate as well as wider effect radius for bonuses. (appropriate units have stealth detect ofc) but i rather something like that shake up matches than "warning, psychic dominator detected"
I'm not sure how much of my secret labs stuff i would carry over, but neutral structures got huge benefits as well, so you'd be fighting over them (especially secret labs, everyone wants mayan prism, yuri bust and eiffel tower lol... yuri bust even shoots from it's eyes! all balanced ofc). Think of that kinda like Renegade, you got a big nasty AGT in your way, how are you gonna out-range it or get around it?
I have no idea how anyone could turtle to the point where a tactical SW is the only thing that'd break them... Just make the ore drills less shitty, maybe more oil derricks, when there's enough money, the matches are always brutal. _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm Last edited by GenesisAria on Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:05 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:05 am Post subject:
Trans_C wrote:
Millennium wrote:
Then give the kamikaze drone a regular weapon with Range=255, ProjectileRange=0 and a projectile that Splits=yes, AirburstWeapon=some_machine_gun.
Drone enters map, shoots directly at stuff all the while it flies towards its target, gets close to target, is killed off by SW.Animation, crashes in an arc.
Crashing aircraft in RA2 doesn't look like a kamikaze...They rotate when falling and that's why I suppose using a arcing weapon.
And since I don't use Ares so I'm not sure whether aircraft called in by SpyPlane SW can choose its target freely, although according to the manual it can be set "on guard".
Btw NP_Ext doesn't have stuff like Splits from Firestorm. But since almost everyone uses Ares here so it's not a problem I think.
Ah right, I forgot you guys are limited to the pre-Ares option... well I'm honestly not sure myself what the SpyPlane.Mission=Guard does, I've never used it. The trick here would be to make the unit fire all the way between spawning and impact (via Range=255), but because the projectile instantly detonates (ProjectileRange=0) and splits into machine gun shots that target nearby objects, it will look like the drone is firing at things it flies past. You can also customize whether a crashing aircraft spins or not by the kind of weapon it uses, or rather by the projectile's ROT. Since we would be using a "strafing" kind of weapon and I believe spinning-while-crashing only applies to Fighter-types, that wouldn't be an issue... but I'm not really sure about that part. QUICK_EDIT
Now that i've decided to take up Ares, i'm really liking all these thing si can do with it that are almost like, you should be able to do these things normally...
Yeah with all these attacheffects and other fancy logics creating a powerful supportive superweapon is quite easy. From the Emprah's Rage in RA3 to the Frenzy in CCGZH, many things can be done thanks to Ares. Now it's just how to get SHPs to make them look legit...
Millennium wrote:
The trick here would be to make the unit fire all the way between spawning and impact (via Range=255), but because the projectile instantly detonates (ProjectileRange=0) and splits into machine gun shots that target nearby objects, it will look like the drone is firing at things it flies past.
Great then, since Ares can just do it all.
Btw, we stick to NP for some reasons. _________________ Aka DirtyChicken QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:18 am Post subject:
It can do alot... if Ares ever has all the functions of NP, will you guys switch over?
Genesis Aria wrote:
Ares can make aircraft not do that spinning gaily through the air when they crash nonsense.
Oh. Oh well, there ya go. I did not know that myself, I was going through the old weapon/ROT method.
GenesisAria wrote:
No it doesn't. Bases in this game are way squishy, i even upped their hp and certain structure's armour type like powerplants... The only thing that's exceptionally hard to rush is yuri with spams of mc towers and cobbled gattling. If ur opponent is turtling they're focused on surviving instead of having a good match.
Agreed. I've spent like half a year trying to seriously figure out why it is that bases are just so fragile in RA2 compared to TS (which I found far more balanced), when their HP and even the warhead verses are pretty much identical. I think I traced that issue to just a general increase in weapon damage between TS and RA2... if you look at the closest thing TS has to tanks, that's the Tick Tank and the Titan. The Tick Tank does far less damage than any RA2 tank and the Titan is around the Grizzly's range. The Rhino in RA2 is just horrendously more powerful in terms of sheer damage output and both Grizzly and Rhino get elite upgrades that are just silly. I think a good approach to making bases more resilient would be to tone down the damage (if the TS-ish durability was something you'd like to have in your mod).
It's really just that, I thought it was a more complex thing of faction makeup and base defense options and all that, but it really isn't, I think.
Quote:
Again, really well used Chrono Legionnaires are scarier than any superweapon.. but the SW's are just lazy point and click and watch the fireworks. i don't like it. Chronosphere + battle fortress + chrono legionnaires = erasure in a can. You might as well have just scrin mothership'd their base.
Again, Chrono Legionnaires, agreed, my least fave and most annoying unit and horrible to go up against, way more than SWs, especially since in PvP, people can start spamming dozens of them in late game... _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
It can do alot... if Ares ever has all the functions of NP, will you guys switch over?
Ares doesn't have everything NPatch had, not yet. Ares has lots of other things, but there's some things (i'm not sure what exactly) that haven't been re-implemented.
Millennium wrote:
Genesis Aria wrote:
Ares can make aircraft not do that spinning gaily through the air when they crash nonsense.
Oh. Oh well, there ya go. I did not know that myself, I was going through the old weapon/ROT method.
No it doesn't. Bases in this game are way squishy, i even upped their hp and certain structure's armour type like powerplants... The only thing that's exceptionally hard to rush is yuri with spams of mc towers and cobbled gattling. If ur opponent is turtling they're focused on surviving instead of having a good match.
Agreed. I've spent like half a year trying to seriously figure out why it is that bases are just so fragile in RA2 compared to TS (which I found far more balanced), when their HP and even the warhead verses are pretty much identical. I think I traced that issue to just a general increase in weapon damage between TS and RA2... if you look at the closest thing TS has to tanks, that's the Tick Tank and the Titan. The Tick Tank does far less damage than any RA2 tank and the Titan is around the Grizzly's range. The Rhino in RA2 is just horrendously more powerful in terms of sheer damage output and both Grizzly and Rhino get elite upgrades that are just silly. I think a good approach to making bases more resilient would be to tone down the damage (if the TS-ish durability was something you'd like to have in your mod).
I actually like the really beefy elite status. (my rhino is replaced with t-80, and grizzly with abrams, abrams got more range. i made lasher so it could run over walls cuz of it's grinder on the front heh. all 3 get mg second weapon when elite, t-80 and abrams can shoot at air with it. i never used the grizzly because it was sorta pointless, it just gets trampled.) I rather try and work on preserving my units that are well stat'd than just have everything disposable. Also disabling things like enemy chevrons is great too, cuz then you dunno what is elite until it shoots. The damage types just need more tweaking and the buildings more HP, as a bonus it also makes the SW's less devastating, and better for preventing blob tactics than just base raping.
Millennium wrote:
Genesis Aria wrote:
Again, really well used Chrono Legionnaires are scarier than any superweapon.. but the SW's are just lazy point and click and watch the fireworks. i don't like it. Chronosphere + battle fortress + chrono legionnaires = erasure in a can. You might as well have just scrin mothership'd their base.
Again, Chrono Legionnaires, agreed, my least fave and most annoying unit and horrible to go up against, way more than SWs, especially since in PvP, people can start spamming dozens of them in late game...
I'd probably end up reducing the faction count. Too many subfactions is unnecessary, each side can have maybe 2 choices and that's plenty. Make things like snipers more available lol (because they're good for dealing with stuff like legionnaires). (i'm still working out the kinks of making actual silenced weapons, i set the sound type to type=player, but i still hear it with AI's, iono about pvp tho.) Also, perimeter base alarms are amazing. I'm still trying to see if it's possible to trigger an EVA event with a weapon, i'd like you to be able to hear the klaxon from anywhere lol. Loved them in TS Retro.
(Btw, is it possible to recreate that really huge particle effect from the ion cannon? the one with blue/white pixels circling in and out from ground zero and going way out before coming back? iono if ur familiar... i should probably just open up ts retro and take a look...)
Edit: oh sweet it does work. I should learn how these particle systems work. now my rift legionnaire weapon has awesome sounds, awesome animations, distortions, glow, and spark-style particles... i'm considering maybe adding the warp-away effect or something similar to it's kill effect, rather than just straight up damage. you know, to make it more rift-y. only quirk is that when you fire at a certain angle downwards, the ROT=1 projectiles will randomly go to the right (infantry left) and go in a huge curve hitting nowhere near where i aimed...
I'd video it but my options for video are either strobe light for half a screen, or painfully slow without ddraw... _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm Last edited by GenesisAria on Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:17 am; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:20 am Post subject:
I don't think you can add an EVA event to a weapon as such, but nothing would keep you from adding a Report that is set in soundmd to be global and have the same priority as an EVA event... in-game, I don't think you could tell the difference between a real EVA announcement and the Report. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
How do i do that then eh? I've looked at all of the options and tried them. Type=Global means everyone can hear it. say "Kirov Reporting" for example. Type=Player didn't seem to work, it still acted like a local sound, and i could hear those sounds from AI enemy units. (unless AI's just count as player in skirmish)
Edit: i could cheat something like using the LostEvaEvent thing, and have it spawn dummy infantry, but they can't spawn on vehicles and buildings, can they? _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:30 am Post subject:
Not sure what you're intending to do... I believe MakeInfantry can spawn in cells that have a vehicle in them, but I'm not sure.
They cannot spawn in cells occupied by buildings though.
About coding an EVA-like Report, I've done very little soundmd editing, but I'm sure it's possible, I will look into it. I'm always for cleaner coding.
EDIT:
Oh.
Just setting "player" isn't enough. It means only the owning player hears it (I'm not sure Reports can even have an Owner?)
But you must also set the Range to something large, so it can be heard on the entire map by the player who owns it. Otherwise, only the owner can hear it, but it will still be restricted to a small range around the structure.
Code:
[BaseAlert]
Control=ambient ; not sure what this does, but ambient is probably safe?
Sounds=KLAXON1
Priority=CRITICAL ; maybe?
Type=PLAYER
Limit=1 ; might be a good idea if you have more than one tower, so you won't get a map-wide mess of sirens and honks playing on top of each other
Range=255
Loop=0
_________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Wrong. in skirmishes, i made snipers have type=player, because i wanted silenced weapons to behave like silenced weapons, but it didn't work, i could still hear it(this would make type=player utterly useless, UNLESS it applies to skirmish only). priority just means, if there are too many sounds, what is the threshold for when it should be played or let it be lost. i'll try range though. _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:33 pm Post subject:
Yes, that's why Priority is CRITICAl, you would want to hear the alert sound no matter how intense the battle is.
Range will definitely work, but ALL players will hear it. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Based on what i said about excess subfactions . . . now i'm trying to think how i'd want to split them up as generals...
like with msotly stock allies and sovs... like tech and army? or what... only prob with doing that, is that tech faction would be fairly stacked, having prism and chrono legionnaires and all that jazz. although army/forces/whatever would have snipers and grand cannons and tank destroyers etc...
like allies could be tech and army/air/naval, and sovs be wmd/terror and army/tech/naval? iono lol. _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:30 am Post subject:
I don't like the Alpha Chinese buildings, they don't look Asian at all (apparently in the Alpha, the Chinese were intended as Mongols?). And the second one is an Alpha America conversion... but there is also a China (release version) building conversion floating around somewhere on ppm, including buildups and damage frames!
As for subfactions... I think you will have to decide if you want to assign a faction a specific tactic, or a specific technology "branch". Sometimes, those two go hand in hand though.
An example of a tech-based subfaction would be, say, "Laser General".
An example of a tactics-based subfaction would, I don't know, "Infantry General".
An example of a technology going hand-in-hand with certain strategies would be "Stealth General".
Another thing to consider is what kind of technologies you want to group together.
For example, you want to make a Fire-based faction, let's call them the "Hellbats". Hellbats get flamethrowers, obviously, but you also have this microwave gun you just invented! Should the Hellbats get the microwave gun? It's kind of fire-based, so they should, right?
But you also have this other faction, the "Ray-bows"! They are the ray/beam-based faction! Shouldn't they rather get it, since it fires beams n rays?
I think considerations like that are important when making factions/subfactions.
Also I thought abit more about the sound thing we discussed earlier and I thought maybe it's worth trying adding the alert sound as a Report to the Anim= of the Alert weapon, since animations invoked by weapons or warheads definitely have an Owner, so that might carry over to the sound. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Ofc, but like i said, keeping it simple, cutting down all the countries and giving each faction (give or take thirdside) 2 'countries'
so i'm just thinking of what would be the best way to divide that.
ally tech would get prism, gap and chrono and stuff, initial veteran prism and stuff
ally army would get tankd,sniper,gtgcan,beag,initial veteran tanks and inf, paradrop
-both sides get full navy, but army have veterans
sov wmd/terror would get demotrucks,desolator,nukesilo(improved nuke, portentially with emp added, but really long CD),demolition tugboats,ivan,terrordrone etc with limited navy
sov army/tech would get tesla and iron curtain and full navy, and vet tanks and stuff, paradrop
ofc i'd have to work out the balance but ya. they'd both have plenty of strategies and tactics, but different styles. like wmd would be all messy and suicide and aoe all over the place... where forces would be utilizing mixed arsenal, vanguard/arty/etc
if i go through with japan faction i'm definitely gonna want a yuriko omega shp (i won't gripe if i gotta resize and make sequence)
edit: lol it's funny how easy it is to fix up a voice... i just went and pitched all yuriko's voices to actually... like.. sound like a school girl and not some middle-aged woman. +2.0semitones
Thanks to Trans_C, i have some some civilian structures to use in context
http://www.ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=528894
Still doesn't help my issue with the base structures themselves though :X
I'm still in the market for building shp's if anyone will help me out in creating a japan faction. Bit of a tall order but: There are a few possible motifs i'd be after... 1)A very red alert 2 befitting faction with as much flair to japanese as each of the allias and soviets are distinct in their own ways (preferable direction)
2)A sci-fi techy sort of faction that is sorta like ts, (maybe a bit like the 3rd faction in reign of steel or something...) with a clear japanese flair
3)A magic faction, with very traditional like buildings, but with a bit of a magical/spiritual twist to them (to do something out of the ordinary and interesting)
4)A faction that takes a bit of the all of the above into account
obviously colour schemed in primarily white with the red sun (with or without rays), if you wanna get technical, the red is supposed to be vermilion as opposed to pure red like the soviet red. except for in the case of the magical designs, where the buildings would have less colour in them.
what i'm not after:
-feudal era japan
-ww2 era japan
-colourful gundam-ized japan _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to side with those who say DIY them. But since you've given your reasons, I won't argue with your decision
Personally, the science/sci-fi tech type fits Japan rather well, IMHO. Maybe it's the influence of Japanese anime/manga/games that's oriented my viewpoint that way. I can't think of any particular examples, but for some reason Front Mission comes to mind. We don't necessarily need walkers that are very Gundam-esque to look cool or elegant or classy or whatever.
But I digress.
Why not consider a completely different direction: something more alien-like? Perhaps Japan's technological advancement has surpassed that of the Allies and the Soviets' own, and have taken a new, distinct form that is both familiar and exotic at the same time when viewed by its rivals?
I've thought of that, just going full on sci-fi, but then it's not a japan faction anymore. I could take buildings from various places like TS assets, and games like SWGB and modify them a bit but ehhh... It'd just be another sci-fi faction befitting starcraft or TS or something... The desire is to make a new japan faction that beats that silly thing in ra3 out of the water.
I'm never gonna be able to do it good on my own, because i'm never gonna learn full on modelling just to render some 2D buildings (it wouldn't be a big deal for me or someone who already breezes through modelling projects and such)... I'd kinda hoped someone else would think this is a good idea enough to jump on board.
Because that's really my primary barrier, is shp's. Buildings and infantry art are outside of what i can do
ps: something like this: http://forums.revora.net/topic/77894-yf-19/ is a perfect asset for a japan faction. even if it's anime-sourced it looks legitimate, and much better than a friggin jet tengu. _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject:
StarCraft conversions look horrible in RA2 I think. The assets look great in their own game, but I think the resolution is worse than RA2 actually and they look very blurry in RA2.
Also, I agree not to let the technological advantage go toooooooo overboard. It would make the side rather silly, misplaced and overpowered, if you had like, I don't know, Enterprise's Starfleet, except crewed by JPs. It wouldn't fit very well. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Well GenesisAria said early on he didn't want the RA3's Design Style so that structure may not be what he wants. Although it does conduse me now as he recently compared a jet that fits exactly into the RA3 Design... so uhhh idk what his original design is anymore.
Honestly from what I can see you're just asking too much. It'd be better to go for a much more simplified art style and redo all the graphics in the game to fit this. Something more 8-bit in design.
Think Dune 2 Quality. That way you could easily fabricate all the new graphics yourself and wouldn't consume too much of your time. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
If i were to use any buildings from RA3, it'd be limited to that power plant, and the floating fortress buildings. (garrison and power building)
But no, not really what i'm after. The difficulty is getting a good Dojo (that looks like a dojo not allied barracks with oni horns on it) and War Factory (that looks like a war factory) and Construction Yard (preferably with the traditional "garage plus crane" look, but not required). Power plants and such don't necessarily have to fit the design.
8-bit would be disgusting. i decided to go into ra2 as opposed to ts for modding because this game looks a lot better and can do more things. mario buildings and units ain't happening.
and no that macross jet doesn't fit into ra3's design at all. it has the colours, but other than that it's more akin to a real forward-swept wing concept jet. ra3 had all that transformers and shit. and everything looked like it had late-era samurai shogun armour on it. there's more to japan than just gundams, transformers and cliche oversized samurai motifs.
even something similar to soviet buildings minus the bricks and changed up so it's got japanese roofs would be on the right track of what might work... but the ra3 stuff is way too polygon-y
there's more to japan than just gundams, transformers and cliche oversized samurai motifs.
there's more to russia than just onion domes, bears and cliche oversized tank motifs
there's more to the west than einsteins, robot weapons and oversized steral motifis
there's more to romanians than spoopy castles, maniacs and cliche oversized forhead motifs
Red alert after 2 is silly get over it. We get it, your BURNING LOVE doens't like Gundam, and somehow just gundam, despite the fact that it is as ingrained into Japans psych as Star Wars and Star trek in America and Doctor Who is England. Or are you squirreling away during the fourth of may and hiding from British export television.
Also, Have you played Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge? Did you not remember the Transylvania castle? Is that all fine to you?
_________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:53 pm Post subject:
Atomic_Noodles wrote:
Well GenesisAria said early on he didn't want the RA3's Design Style so that structure may not be what he wants. Although it does conduse me now as he recently compared a jet that fits exactly into the RA3 Design... so uhhh idk what his original design is anymore.
I think this discrepancy is easily understood, but the logic behind it is pretty quirky. Vehicles and aircraft generally have a higher technological standard than structures. It sounds odd, but if you think about it, a garage is simply a garage. It's just a set of stone walls and a roof, maybe some electric lighting. The vehicles inside are far more tech-intense. Likewise, a highly-advanced yet has flashy lights and shiny metal, but the hangar and runway will not necessarily be made of shiny metal and have blinking lights and neon lines all over (well... runways have lights, but you get the idea I hope).
Factories produce tanks, but they are not in themselves in the design of tanks, but rather in the design of industrial buildings. Which means, brick walls, rather than riveted metal. So, consequently, the RA3 japanese structures look ridiculously high-tech, easily StarTrek era. But things like that jet could reasonably be visually-polished modern or slightly post-modern aircraft.
Just my 2 cents.
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Red alert after 2 is silly get over it. We get it, your BURNING LOVE doens't like Gundam, and somehow just gundam, despite the fact that it is as ingrained into Japans psych as Star Wars and Star trek in America and Doctor Who is England. Or are you squirreling away during the fourth of may and hiding from British export television.
You bring up an interesting point here, but I think it's the other way around - EA made their Japan around what _westerners_ see as fundamentally Japanese. Imagine a Japanese company made their Allies with Enterprise-shaped aircraft and a Yoda hero infantry because those appear in western pop culture. Star Trek and Star Wars are American (or British, for TOS?), but they don't depict America. Good you brought this up tho.
Quote:
Also, Have you played Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge? Did you not remember the Transylvania castle? Is that all fine to you?
Nobunaga The Fool pretty much sums up the stereotypes of robots if you ask me. This picture from left to right: European, Japanese, Chinese-influences.
Robotech, Evangelion, and Gundam are Japan's designs as much as Star Wars, Battlefield 2142, and Transformers are Euro/American designs as much as RA3's Soviet "powersuits" are Russian/Chinese designs. None of it is set in stone, but when asked what a mechanized combat vehicle would be from a country, 9/10 agree those designs are what come to mind. See movies like Pacific Rim for examples of stereotypes.
And that's just talking about 1980's+, nevermind stuff like
But you're entitled to design it however you want, but if you yourself can't physically convey your image of this vision you have artistically, you'll be hard pressed to find someone that can interpret said image. Not to mention this community is already hard-pressed for graphical talent. _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
Red alert after 2 is silly get over it. We get it, your BURNING LOVE doens't like Gundam, and somehow just gundam, despite the fact that it is as ingrained into Japans psych as Star Wars and Star trek in America and Doctor Who is England. Or are you squirreling away during the fourth of may and hiding from British export television.
You bring up an interesting point here, but I think it's the other way around - EA made their Japan around what _westerners_ see as fundamentally Japanese. Imagine a Japanese company made their Allies with Enterprise-shaped aircraft and a Yoda hero infantry because those appear in western pop culture. Star Trek and Star Wars are American (or British, for TOS?), but they don't depict America. Good you brought this up tho.
Actally there is a lot of odd depictions of Westoners in Japaneese media, With a lot of blonds and over the topness. Though if you want in a sci fi style, there is Texas Mack from Getter Robo and Gundam Maxter from G Gundam and Heroman, some oddly 'murica rhobits : D Though Heroman may not count as it is made by stan lee? https://youtu.be/nujP0ghAoho
Also, The whole Soviet side in all the red alerts are a western view of a Soviet faction, with RA1's Brutal gulag mailmen to RA2's Onion domes on everything.
Cultural Osmosis is great in the way you get a way to find out about different cultures, using it to be a hypocrite is not : D
[img]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/muvluv/images/6/68/Age%27s_attitude_towards_English.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110906053153 [/img] _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
You bring up an interesting point here, but I think it's the other way around - EA made their Japan around what _westerners_ see as fundamentally Japanese. Imagine a Japanese company made their Allies with Enterprise-shaped aircraft and a Yoda hero infantry because those appear in western pop culture. Star Trek and Star Wars are American (or British, for TOS?), but they don't depict America. Good you brought this up tho.
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
there's more to russia than just onion domes, bears and cliche oversized tank motifs
there's more to the west than einsteins, robot weapons and oversized steral motifis
i can't argue with that, but it's which motifs you choose... i'm looking for "japanese" motifs. not "akiba(anime)/gundam" motifs. see what i'm saying?
Just like the russian stuff isn't based off a specific couple shows, and allies aren't either. They're based on a more general background that got a bit of flamboyance and dramaticness to make it amusing, but it's not based on any particular media.
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Red Alert after 2 is silly get over it.
Red Alert 2 is silly in a classy way. It's a far cry less ridiculous than Red Alert 3. Red Alert 3 is downright cartoony. Red Alert 2 has the best balance of class and not being serious.
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Or are you squirreling away during the fourth of may and hiding from British export television.
You kidding? Doctor Who is fantastic. (i've even suggested i might make a dalek easter egg unit for lulz if i got bored)
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Also, Have you played Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge? Did you not remember the Transylvania castle? Is that all fine to you?
I recently re-played all the campaigns for both the original and yuri's revenge. yuri is a terrible villain and i dislike his whole plotline. notice how i plan to scrap his faction (some of his units were cool though, like the magnetron)
4StarGeneral wrote:
Nobunaga The Fool pretty much sums up the stereotypes of robots if you ask me. This picture from left to right: European, Japanese, Chinese-influences.
anime tends to be better at grasping the themes and ideas from the heart of a culture, as opposed to it's stereotypical media (unless they're making a joke of it). they take cultural influences, not hijack a handful of details and vomit them everywhere.
4StarGeneral wrote:
Robotech, Evangelion, and Gundam are Japan's designs as much as Star Wars, Battlefield 2142, and Transformers are Euro/American designs as much as RA3's Soviet "powersuits" are Russian/Chinese designs. None of it is set in stone, but when asked what a mechanized combat vehicle would be from a country, 9/10 agree those designs are what come to mind.
Keep in mind that often times the stuff in anime isn't even meant to be japanese, but at times other nations, or unified world governments, or more widespread nations expanding across planets or isolated to an individual group of ships... Also note that anime wasn't really a thing until the tail end of the cold war, going back to the earlier days where the tech was supposed to be aftermath of ww2 based, anime wasn't around . . . that was more in the times of samurai movies.
ps: stuff like the tesla trooper i believe is more based on warhammer.
4StarGeneral wrote:
And that's just talking about 1980's+, nevermind stuff like
But you're entitled to design it however you want, but if you yourself can't physically convey your image of this vision you have artistically, you'll be hard pressed to find someone that can interpret said image. Not to mention this community is already hard-pressed for graphical talent.
and that's all i'm attempting to do is get the idea out... perhaps i should be attempting to dig up some pics of things but iono...
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Actally there is a lot of odd depictions of Westoners in Japaneese media, With a lot of blonds and over the topness. Though if you want in a sci fi style, there is Texas Mack from Getter Robo and Gundam Maxter from G Gundam and Heroman, some oddly 'murica rhobits : D Though Heroman may not count as it is made by stan lee? https://youtu.be/nujP0ghAoho
japanese comedy and "lacking of seriousness" is different from north america... just like brits are different from both, and germans don't lack seriousness at all even though they're funny... They make a silly cowboy because they want to make a silly cowboy. Just like how westwood made their silly cowboys for flint and that texan civ. They make the dramatic blonds or the chinese that says -aru or whatever, not out of direct stereotype but because it's an archetypal character that people liked so it gets reproduced.
Most of what japan knows about the usa, is actually more on the money sometimes than usa knows usa... They may have a crazy blond character, but they don't (at least in more recent media) stereotype the nation.
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Also, The whole Soviet side in all the red alerts are a western view of a Soviet faction, with RA1's Brutal gulag mailmen to RA2's Onion domes on everything.
well that's just a little nudge to history... just like if you did a middle eastern one, you'd have half-domes atop square/rectangular buildings, and chinese/japanese you'd have curve-trimmed roofs... _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm Last edited by GenesisAria on Tue May 05, 2015 1:34 am; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
Is that Sky Captain I see? Those giant robots of Dr Totenkopf? Man, that show was pretty slick. In a silly way.
Stereotypes in pop culture are unavoidable for the most part. But still, one can find ways to diversify without a hitch.
And I must also admit that I'm rather confused as to the direction you're looking for GenesisAria. It's a mix of both new and old that you're looking for? Minus the tackiness? Or did I get it all mixed up? Sorry :S
The simplest way to put it... all needing to fit the template of barracks(dojo), war factory, radar, conyard, navalyard, tech center, power plant, blahblahblah... or slight variation of it:
One way is to have buildings that very much match the pre-existing RA2 buildings. As much as Allies are different from Soviets, being the limit of how different the japanese buildings can be. Not round like allies, but more square-like like soviets, except no bricks, and preferably having the curve-trimmed roofs... The RA2+ route.
Another way could be something sorta like ra3, except without oni horns on everything, and buildings that resemble buildings to the sensibilities at least of TS modding, but at least being able to identify it as japanese by looking at it... Aka the sci-fi route.
Another way is to have completely traditional buildings, with familiar japanese architecture, although still fitting a at least mostly familiar base arrangement, somehow making them serve as war factories and barracks and powerplants etc, but not needing to look sturdy... Aka the supernatural/magical japan route.
Another way is to somehow stretch these ideas and mix any of the above and make something within the scope as a hybrid.
The only thing i want to avoid is an RA3 remake. Last edited by GenesisAria on Tue May 05, 2015 1:40 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
You bring up an interesting point here, but I think it's the other way around - EA made their Japan around what _westerners_ see as fundamentally Japanese. Imagine a Japanese company made their Allies with Enterprise-shaped aircraft and a Yoda hero infantry because those appear in western pop culture. Star Trek and Star Wars are American (or British, for TOS?), but they don't depict America. Good you brought this up tho.
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
there's more to russia than just onion domes, bears and cliche oversized tank motifs
there's more to the west than einsteins, robot weapons and oversized steral motifis
i can't argue with that, but it's which motifs you choose... i'm looking for "japanese" motifs. not "akiba(anime)/gundam" motifs. see what i'm saying?
Just like the russian stuff isn't based off a specific couple shows, and allies aren't either. They're based on a more general background that got a bit of flamboyance and dramaticness to make it amusing, but it's not based on any particular media.
It's not specific Shows, It's how the culture shows off it's well culture! When you think of Sci fi from countries you do pop up a few franchises first, like Thinking of British sci fi you find Doctor WHo Surprisingly prevalent in England and out of it. A lot of British Sci fi Jokes are made based on one show along, See Inspector SpaceTime from Community, Funnybot From South park, and how many cameo's in western properties, liek the Simpsons and that one loony toones movie. https://youtu.be/nAzVXyT2dTM
The same with US made Sci fi, I'm more than certain that there are a fair many "Not the Drones you looking for" lines made in recent memory.
Red Alert 2 is silly in a classy way. It's a far cry less ridiculous than Red Alert 3. Red Alert 3 is downright cartoony. Red Alert 2 has the best balance of class and not being serious.
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Also, The whole Soviet side in all the red alerts are a western view of a Soviet faction, with RA1's Brutal gulag mailmen to RA2's Onion domes on everything.
well that's just a little nudge to history... just like if you did a middle eastern one, you'd have half-domes atop square/rectangular buildings, and chinese/japanese you'd have curve-trimmed roofs...
I just want to get this out of the way, You're hating on RA3 because lolea? Because if it is, 90% of this get's easier. Because htat is the only line between RA2's Cartoony and RA3's cartoony. Because what is terribly different between the Zeppelin bombers flying though Modern SAM's or the Robot Reaching up to a Zeppelin Bomber weaving though the Modern SAM's?
And What is the first building you think of when you think Russia? Most people can't even get the right name for it : D
I'm trying to help you figure out what you want,as your request is kind of all around. Also, I don't take to people dissing Mecha. Mecha of all nations, Nippon, Murica even Persian are in my line of like. _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
It's not specific Shows, It's how the culture shows off it's well culture! When you think of Sci fi from countries you do pop up a few franchises first, like Thinking of British sci fi you find Doctor WHo Surprisingly prevalent in England and out of it.
japan doesn't show off it's culture in sci-fi. it shows off it's culture in slice of life and drama shows.
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
The same with US made Sci fi, I'm more than certain that there are a fair many "Not the Drones you looking for" lines made in recent memory.
the most robots i intend on having is rc tanks and predator drones.
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
I just want to get this out of the way, You're hating on RA3 because lolea? Because if it is, 90% of this get's easier.
EA is shit, but that's got nothing to do with it, i actually enjoy ra3, and c&c4(aka c&c arena remake) tbh
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Because htat is the only line between RA2's Cartoony and RA3's cartoony. Because what is terribly different between the Zeppelin bombers flying though Modern SAM's or the Robot Reaching up to a Zeppelin Bomber weaving though the Modern SAM's?
err, no. everything in ra3 was toys. the tanks were overexaggerated, the transformers were transforming. it's just a big cartoon toybox. the kirov was the only thing that was pretty much the same. many people have made this distinction, even in this community, so why is it difficult to differentiate the two now all of the sudden?
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
And What is the first building you think of when you think Russia? Most people can't even get the right name for it : D
kremlin. and for japan? inari shrine, followed by that rp town in kyoto. and for usa? hmm, random semi-modern buildings, and the whitehouse which is stolen architectural designs. most people think of the most famous structures usually. when people think japan as a land/nation they tend to think of the beautiful shrines before they think of the giant gundam statue (which they might be planing to make able to walk btw).
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Also, I don't take to people dissing Mecha. Mecha of all nations, Nippon, Murica even Persian are in my line of like.
i totally get the appeal, and i've come to tolerate them through the more justifiable mediums like eureka seven. but they're still 100% rule of cool, there's no practicality or even sensible reason to make it walk on legs other than somehow being human shaped is cool. but it is not what i'm after...
How about this....For the RA2+ version, the one befitting the rest of RA2....
Think World War 2 Japan. Got that in your head?
Okay, now take that, and put an RA2 amount of "what if" technology on top.
That's what i'm looking for for that version. _________________ ????????MyAnimeList my Last.fm QUICK_EDIT
It's not specific Shows, It's how the culture shows off it's well culture! When you think of Sci fi from countries you do pop up a few franchises first, like Thinking of British sci fi you find Doctor WHo Surprisingly prevalent in England and out of it.
japan doesn't show off it's culture in sci-fi. it shows off it's culture in slice of life and drama shows.
It does now, but for a long strech during the turn of the century...
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
I just want to get this out of the way, You're hating on RA3 because lolea? Because if it is, 90% of this get's easier.
EA is shit, but that's got nothing to do with it, i actually enjoy ra3, and c&c4(aka c&c arena remake) tbh[/quote]
Audible Gasp
I don't mean this disrespectfully, but I an thoroughly surprised.
Zengar_Zombolt wrote:
Because htat is the only line between RA2's Cartoony and RA3's cartoony. Because what is terribly different between the Zeppelin bombers flying though Modern SAM's or the Robot Reaching up to a Zeppelin Bomber weaving though the Modern SAM's?
err, no. everything in ra3 was toys. the tanks were overexaggerated, the transformers were transforming. it's just a big cartoon toybox. the kirov was the only thing that was pretty much the same. many people have made this distinction, even in this community, so why is it difficult to differentiate the two now all of the sudden?[/quote]
Because lolea and that nostalgia is a powerful force.
Also, Giant Squid, Magnetron's giant tuning fork, Every version of the Tesla tank, Prism Tech in general (Mirrors how do they work?) Dolphins taking down battleships and such. Just because hte toys aren't shiny, doens't make them any less toy.
Quote:
How about this....For the RA2+ version, the one befitting the rest of RA2....
Think World War 2 Japan. Got that in your head?
Okay, now take that, and put an RA2 amount of "what if" technology on top.
That's what i'm looking for for that version.
Sooo, you want a happy version of a Luft '46/ disney's deisel punk? _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
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