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Aria's modding questions [support requests]
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:37 pm    Post subject:  Aria's modding questions [support requests] Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

might as well make one thread for me to dump things...

right now i'm trying to make an immobile infantry.  it's not behaving.  well i seem to make it immobile, but if i use an infantry locomotor it causes crazy lag, and if i use a teleport locomotor it doesn't lag but it keeps moving around via chrono every time it's shot.  what's happening is they aren't dying, when it's killed it just replicated itself at full health.  why is that?

what i'm doing is making a tree as an infantry to have different palettes (could be used for other things as well, perhaps giving trees animations like falling leaves, or topple animations as well. maybe making them able to be knocked over by tanks?)

Code:
rules.ini
[Jtree001]
UIName=Name:Cherry
Name=Sakura Tree
Image=jtree1
Strength=400
Armor=wood
TechLevel=-1
Insignificant=yes
Sight=0
Speed=0
Owner=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance,Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs,YuriCountry,Special,Neutral
AllowedToStartInMultiplayer=no
Cost=0
Soylent=0
Points=0
Nominal=yes
Locomotor={4A582744-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
PhysicalSize=1
MovementZone=Normal
ThreatPosed=0
ImmuneToPoison=yes
ImmuneToPsionics=yes
ImmuneToPsionicWeapons=yes
ImmuneToRadiation=yes
ImmuneToVeins=yes
Size=1
NotHuman=yes
Crushable=no
Disableable=no
Selectable=no
LegalTarget=no
PixelSelectionBracketDelta=-9999
Trainable=no
WalkRate=0
Fearless=yes
TiberiumProof=yes

art.ini

[jtree1]
Theater=no
Crawls=no
Remapable=no
Sequence=TreeSeqence

[TreeSequence]
Ready=0,1,0
Guard=0,1,0
Walk=0,1,0
Idle1=0,1,0
Idle2=0,1,0
Prone=0,1,0
Crawl=0,1,0
Die1=0,1,0
Die2=0,1,0
Die3=0,1,0
Die4=0,1,0
Die5=0,1,0
FireUp=0,1,0
FireProne=0,1,0
Down=0,1,0
Up=0,1,0
Cheer=0,1,0
Panic=0,1,0
Paradrop=0,1,0

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Speed=0 is bad idea. It successes in lag due to constant pathfinding. If you want to do something immobile, repurpose a SpeedType via nulling the speed of it upon all terrain types - that'll stop pathfinding trying to scatter/reach a destination.

Noidea why it doesn't die. I'd try throwing in INVISO or a dummyshp as a DeathAnims override to force that.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

where th eheck do you edit speed types?

deathanims override? i recall seeing something like that but no idea where haha.
can't you just make a unit have no ai?

oh wait, i should try just making it's movement restricted to something...
okay, i re-purposed SpeedType=FloatBeach to be 0% to all. it's unused anyways, so it can be my immobility speedtype.

still don't know how to make it not come back after death.

(also it is kinda funny how the tree heals if there's a civ hospital... maybe i should consider spawning the trees as w/e JP faction is.)

i figured out deathanims! it dies now and behaves and all that jazz
DeathAnimes=INVISO
worked
How to make a tree as an immobile infantry.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

simple question: under sound.ini when setting the sound to Type=Player... does this mean player only and in screenspace? or does this mean global and player only like eva event?
also with priority=critical?

if i say wanted to make hero units make a announcement across map to player only when they do their fear comment or when they die...

i'm working on making base alarms, like in the TS retro mod.. the klax1 sound seems to have been hardcoded as a sound that you hear anywhere on the maps (and for some reason you hear the "-bleep- over here" chameleon spy voice when an enemy's thing spots you)
i liked the idea of having proper base alarms that are noisy and grab your attention even if you got scouts in your base.. so you don't have to wait until you hear "base under attack" to get the notice.

also, is it possible to make things trigger eva events? ie: "critical unit lost".
i decided to take up Ares, and i'm finding a lot of stuff doable now haha.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so, here's an odd question.... is there a way to modify how far lines of walls can go? like what the max distance is for filling in segments?

also, can i make sandbags behave like walls with the filling-in as well?

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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Use GuardRange

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RP
Commander


Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mapping God Heaven

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aye, the number you put there is the amount of cells a wall can extend and connect to a previous piece.
Source

It's not an odd question, Aria. This specific feature isn't that easy to find as GuardRange in no way indicates anything related to 'wall' or 'length'.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, just wasn't something super important, i wouldn't have complained if it wasn't possible.  i haven't even tried laser walls yet (not sure i care to until i cook up a yuri faction conversion).

anyways, now making bit better walls, and sandbags as well!

i'm quite enjoying fiddling around with this stuff . . . especially now that i can manage to accomplish things... it's been at least 7 years since i tried modding this game last, and i ran into internal errors left right and centre and usually gave up once i got to where i couldn't figure it out... so far, internal error free! (after fixing that crap with the fire spawning)

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's obvious why it doesn't die (I think), but why it regains full health when it "dies" is beyond me...
What _should_ happen is that it "attempts" to die, fails to find deathframes (since its NotHuman, it has to use the death frames from its own art), then keeps existing with 1 HP.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Naw, i figured out that part.  i needed to add INVISO to death animations.  if there's no death animations or enough death frames it'll just respawn it.  It's a weird quirk.  Just like the unnecessary lag that can be caused by a unit if their rules/art stats don't line up right. (i had some crazy lag issues just making a second spy with the same unit image, i ended up duplicating the shp just so i could have a different icon)


Is it possible to modify the chrono time-out duration? (make it shorter, or lower the max distance for duration modifier?)
I'd like to consider making a teleporting unit that uses flashes (as wormholes) or something for instant teleporting, without that painfully long time-out implemented for balance reasons.
OOHHH brain blast, could make a unit perhaps deploy or something and use a parasite-jump to projectile itself.  Although that behaves like an attack rather than movement.  It would be nice to be able to bring back the "one type movement for short distance and other type movement for long distance" that TS had for devil's tongue and jumpjet.
Anyways, anyone got an insight of implementations of chrono and whatnot?

but yeah, as i've been asking here these are the kinds of things i want to try to whip up and show as possible implementations of things.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This exploit has been used to replicate "zombies" in my mod, ie infantry units that can be damaged to near-death with small arms fire (anything that makes use of DieN frames in its death anim), but can never really be killed unless "gibbed" (or hit with something else that confers a death animation). I've never had them respawn with full health before... I wonder what makes the difference between one and the other.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe it wasn't full health, maybe it just healed really fast.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A really simple question, it's been bothering me, i remember it being easy to do in TS...
How do i make a weapon fire alternating, like left-right-left-right. With the same duration between each shot.  For example making a tesla tank fire alternating between each coil instead of shooting one in middle or left-right instantly (because it cancels out the first bolt animation with the second one)
I could probably accomplish it with gatling, but that seems like a pain and unnecessary.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


_________________
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=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I tried burstdelay but it didn't even do anything.  i tried putting it in the weapon, as well as on the unit and nothing changed. I just entered it wrong.

I just wanted double barreled things to sometimes shoot alternating sides as opposed to always starting left or w/e.  Would gatling allow 2 electric bolt animations come from a single unit at the same time? Cuz my issue is how the tesla tank cancels out the first arc with the second one, and it looks odd.
Also might be nice to have tesla weapons fire a seemingly constant arc damaging a unit until it dies, as opposed to just a single hit. That would prob be best achieved with gatling tho cuz of charging.


So, i decided to give the technician are repairbullet type weapon for low efficiency vehicle repair and building repair, yet it insists on behaving like a medic, and it ignores the warhead rules.  It can't repair buildigns or vehicles and it ends up shooting it's secondary weapon (pistola) at infantry when they get hurt.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GenesisAria wrote:

Would gatling allow 2 electric bolt animations come from a single unit at the same time?

Not at the same time technically, but it would virtually seem that way to the player if you gave it a cyclic gattling with very short stages.
Again, maybe I'm missing the point of what you actually want to do, but as Graion said, BurstDelay would probably be the better way to go. If you gave your Tesla Tank Burst=2 and BurstDelay0=0, that would virtually fire both bolts at the same time. It's something I wanted to do for my Tesla Tank since forever, but never gotten around to, so I don't know if there are any issues with it.

Quote:

So, i decided to give the technician are repairbullet type weapon for low efficiency vehicle repair and building repair, yet it insists on behaving like a medic, and it ignores the warhead rules.  It can't repair buildigns or vehicles and it ends up shooting it's secondary weapon (pistola) at infantry when they get hurt.

Infantry is hardcoded not to be able to repair vehicles. There are some workarounds to it, but I believe none of them will allow you to have a pistol that will be used exclusively against enemy units, while repair will be used exclusively on your own units. The best you could do in that way is an infantry who shoots the pistol at infantry of any side, and repairs vehicles of any side.

Unless you give him a repair aura via AE. Then, you would be free to use the pistol as usual.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well with a normal burst=2 for tesla, the second bold cancels the first animation. so the second bolt arc lasts longer than the first. when it stops firing.


Another thing i came across, i didn't notice it at first, but now i do... why do some vehicles have acceleration and deceleration and others not? i couldn't find a correlation. personally i'd want acceleration on all units except extremely slow ones. seeing the grizzly and ifv instantly go to full speed is really awkward.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Accelerates=yes/no
And if you want to customize it,
AccelerationFactor/DeaccelerationFactor[sic]
Did that on all of my units, except walkers.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i guess certain units have hardcoded defaults.  give example of the factors

edit: wth how did i not even see this...  i use tibed, just because the organization is nice, and making sure i didn't typo anything, i still do most of my stuff in manual.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Check the Terror Drone. I think that's the only unit in RA2 which uses acceleration. TS had a few more if I recall, I think the Tick Tank was one.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

apoc had acceleration. no factors set tho.  i know because my reaper tank i cloned apoc first, and it would get really painful when moving only like 1 tile, cuz it's only got speed 2 XD

edit: modenc says it's percentile... but percent in what way? acceleration math doesn't work like that XD . . . even if we assume a consistent deceleration rate, does 75% mean cut off 75%? or cut off 25% and when it gets to 75% it can stop?
edit2: tick tank had 0.01 acceleration factor... i don't think it had to crawl to a stop.... though acceleration mgiht work differently in ra2 DX

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Last edited by GenesisAria on Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Accelerates=yes works without setting factors, but I'm not sure what the default factors are.
On a side note, you can also apply this to projectiles, but here you don't use Accelerates, the projectile tag is "Acceleration" and needs a number, just like AccelerationFactor on vehicles.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

acceleration was necessary to have straight-firing projectiles.

edit: CarriesCrate doesn't seem to be working anymore since i got ares...

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Acceleration on those projectiles is not _really_ needed, compare the Cyborg Commando's plasma ball thingy in TS, it flies in a line but it does actually accelerate during flight, ie start slow and get progressively faster as it moves away from the firer.
Setting Acceleration to really high numbers on those projectiles will mean they reach their Speed instantly when being fired, avoiding the Cyborg Commando's weapon effect.
Seems like ROT=1 projectiles default to low Acceleration, but you can set Acceleration on any projectile (with ROT; projectiles without ROT ignore Speed and anything Speed-related).

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Try it for yourself. The straight-line thing certainly works without Acceleration, but Acceleration adds a visual aspect that resembles a cannon more closely.
It may also prevent some glitching at long ranges, not sure.

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G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually arcing projectiles obey speed just fine... I used 60 for the artillery-like guns and 120 for tank cannons, it was clearly visible.

I was using the scatter/inaccurate effect on tank cannons, I found I didn't really like the random placement usually fell short of the target. It made it seem like the cannons arced into the ground, passing some boundary layer where the explosion anim would go off, usually appearing behind the bullet impact area.

I prefer this method with ROT=1 and accel=50, since it still misses, often overshooting, and looks more natural. Also the top speed is in the engine is faster than 200, although 200 is the fastest I could distinguish in a explicit arcing projecting speed.

It's possible Arcing=yes limits the speed because of the path re-calculations, whereas homing doesn't have to do nearly as much math.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Arcing projectiles obey Speed? o_o
Wow... I remember there was a feature request for Ares for exactly this issue... maybe I remember wrongly ><

Also is max speed not 100?
I really wish someone with expertise would look at this.. I've never noticed a difference for Speed for arcing projectiles, although I have customized many weapon speeds in anticipation of Ares fixing it.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

is it possible with ares to exempt a particular infantry from hospital heal buff? like cyborgs or drones?

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ApolloTD
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, hospital affects all infantry, wanted or not presently.

Regards arcing speeds...frankly I'm not seeing too much difference whether I put 10 or 100, maybe there is but its too marginal for my tank cannon workings view...
Its just unrealistic you see the shell for so long as its so damn slow and can even be avoided... actual cannons hit like whoosh BAM!

Here its like whoooooooooooooooooooo bang.

The request is to allow much more finer control as its limited too much by gravity so setting the speed= whatever doesn't make that much impact in long run.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nother random question, is it possible to make terror drones not die when the target unit is blown up by allied fire? (like squid)
i always hate using terror drones because i keep losing them all over the place (idealy they'd come out damaged, but either way)
it also prevents them from force attacking their own unit to remove the terror drone...
ofc to balance you'd want repair units for be more readily available...

similar reasons that railguns/sonic were annoying in TS, cuz they killed ur own units if you didn't micromanage it...


and another question, i know that you could accomplish units with charge anim weapons in TS, but how would one go about doing this in RA2?  i don't necessarily need charge animation, however i would like a charge sound for pre-fire.  i intend to make a railgun with a "buzz" charge up

can gattling system be used on infantry? prob not eh

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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Try AffectsAllies=no on the warhead. If at all, that is likely only going to work for TD's inside units affected by sonic weapons. For units being destroyed, I don't think there is a way to change it. Annoys me too.

For Charge weapons, look at the Tesla Coil and Prism Tower in art(md). The old Charges thingy doesn't work in RA2/YR anymore, it's now an art property called... AnimDelayedFire... or something like that?
Chances are that will only work for buildings, though I've never checked it, but the way it's implemented in the INI suggests it.

And no, gattlings only work for vehicles and structures.

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For Parasite Units adjust SuppressioThreshold till you are satisfied with how often hey live/die

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah i tried messing with delayfire to make that youmu konpaku attack delay a couple frames so that she fully poofs before coming down on the target, but to no avail.

i really would like to know how to handle charging weapons, or at least something that is convincing enough to look like charging... (i remember this spider mech thingy in TS, it could charge up the shot and didn't actually fire until half way through it's firing animation) there's gotta be a way to reproduce it...

and as far as SuppressionThreshold goes, i have no idea where that stat is supposed to go, or even what assignment type it's supposed to have, is it percentile? decimal? integer? what's the default?

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That spider-mech thingy (it has a name as Cyborg Reaper, but dun mind that) was added in Firestorm. Best option is to use Splits logic (ProjectileRange=0) with a PreImpactAnim on first stage, using a dummy 1x1 shp with frame amount controlling the delay.

Also, open your rulesmd, Ctrl-F "Suppression" and press 'Search'... a bit hard, isn't it? There's also ModEnc to look up individual tags, dammit. http://modenc.renegadeprojects.com/Main_Page

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'd already looked at modenc's description and it was terrible.
tibed says "damage below this amount won't suppress the parasite" that makes much more sense.
i didn't think to search it (derp) didn't know if it was under weap or vehicle or w/e... anyways.

i meant this spider. lin kuei's cobra. it didn't fire until it was full red.
but i know ra2 can't just used the simple "charges" anymore.


so you're saying make a weapon that immediately splits, triggering the 'charge' impression, and then dummy shp for delay and have the actual weapon fire off of the split?  wouldn't that make the weapon like, fire from the air if you move the unit during the delay period?
i'm still getting the impression that gattling would be the most realistic way to implement a "charge" effect. charge initiator then dummy for time gap, then weapon (even if the weapon is a multi-staged one).

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Every gattling firing restarts the firing sequence.

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Trans_C
AA Infantry


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere in China

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As for the Youmu shp, just use the tag "FireUp=" . Set it to 9 and it should be fine.
However it seems that infantry stop playing their attack frames immediately when the target disappears so no perfect solution anyway.
As for the "charging" since every weapon in the gattling system will make the unit play its attack frames so using gattling to solve this problem is just impossible.
For melee vehicles though, using slow-flying invisible missiles can make the damage delivered just at the right frame.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Infantry seem to spawn their projectile at the beginning of their firing sequence, unfortunately. Maybe someone wants to correct me on that, but I remember I came across that issue before. So what you _can_ do is use a firing sequence that looks like the infantry is charging their weapon and firing it on the last frame(s). Then give the weapon, like Trans_C said, a slow invisible missile. If you time it right, the projectile will hit at just the moment the weapon seems to be firing. Obvious disadvantage is that it only looks right on a "fixed" range - ie exactly that range at which the flight time of the projectile matches the duration of the "charging" part of the firing sequence and the "firing" frames are played at just the moment the projectile hits.

So, if you want it to look credible, you'd be limited to either:
a) A weapon that has just one range it can hit at and can't go lower. Meelee weapons maybe the obvious choice here since you can't go lower than meelee, yet your dummy projectile will still need a few frames to cross the intra-cell distance if you make it slow enough... But what kind of unit could possibly use a charging meelee weapon, I don't know.
b) You can use a weapon with a minimum range that equals the range from A), but allow it more range. In that case, it will look like it hits targets at its minimum range instantly when its "firing" frames are playing, but takes longer for hitting further-away targets. It will look strange, but maybe you can explain it away and find a credible reason why a weapon would hit further-away targets with a substantial delay.

For b), there are two possible additional solutions that I can't be bothered to investigate right now:
1) remember our conversation about Acceleration maybe, if your projectile accelerates by a high amount, you may be able to make it accelerate enough at longer ranges to negate abit of the additional delay past minimum range (since acceleration is cumulative over distance), but it obviously makes timing your frames correctly more difficult, since acceleration would be applied pre-MinimumRange too...
2) you can give your unit's weapon a ProjectileRange equal to the MinimumRange and give the projectile Splits, RetargetAccuracy=100% and an AirburstWeapon that is identical to the unit's weapon, but has Speed=100. That way, when the projectile hits the boundary set by MinimumRange at moment your unit's "firing" frames are playing, it spawns a Speed=100 projectile that instantly hits further-away targets, looking as if your unit fired on them and hit them instantly the moment the "firing" frames are playing.

I hope this explanation was somewhat comprehensible. >< I've just written it up without too much effort... very messy.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i said i didn't need fire animations, i just meant the charge logic.  though i'm not sure how that green camo tesla with charge turret was supposed to work out heh.

As for the Youmu shp, just use the tag "FireUp=" . Set it to 9 and it should be fine.
Trans_C wrote:
However it seems that infantry stop playing their attack frames immediately when the target disappears so no perfect solution anyway.
yeah that's a derp. maybe that should get put in ares requests "make shp anims not reset when target disappears" although same crap seems to happen in regards to burst, where the burst is reset when target dies. it seems to have the same effects as the player triggers 'stop'

Trans_C wrote:
As for the "charging" since every weapon in the gattling system will make the unit play its attack frames so using gattling to solve this problem is just impossible.
unless the ROF was the same as the charge frames...

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, maybe I missed some things here... but you simply can't have Charges on infantry weapons. AnimDelayedFire(?) for buildings, and ChargeTurret for vehicles (of which I'm not sure why it doesn't meet your needs)... no other solutions and neither of them work for infantry. ChargeTurret probably works for buildings, too.

By the way, I tried all ideas I had for the siren thing (if that question is still up to date), and neither worked. It's audible across the map, but for all players.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Millennium wrote:
Then give the weapon, like Trans_C said, a slow invisible missile. If you time it right, the projectile will hit at just the moment the weapon seems to be firing. Obvious disadvantage is that it only looks right on a "fixed" range - ie exactly that range at which the flight time of the projectile matches the duration of the "charging" part of the firing sequence and the "firing" frames are played at just the moment the projectile hits.
already worked that over in my head, didn't seem very practical, would do odd things vs air as well.

for youmu specifically, i'll see what fireup= does... otherwise if i cared enough, the solution would probably be making a split weapon.  split would be perfectly fine for an invisible, just not a delayed cannon shot or anything like that.

Millennium wrote:
By the way, I tried all ideas I had for the siren thing (if that question is still up to date), and neither worked. It's audible across the map, but for all players.
did you test with players? because i'm not entirely sure an AI is 100% considered another player.  thinking about it really, it would make the entire type=player option completely useless.

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Trans_C
AA Infantry


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere in China

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Millennium wrote:
Infantry seem to spawn their projectile at the beginning of their firing sequence, unfortunately. Maybe someone wants to correct me on that, but I remember I came across that issue before.

Indeed there is someone who wants to correct you on this.
But since I'm now holding the venerable title of the guy who knows nothing but talking stupid nonsense about everything, a proof is necessary.
That's how it works when i set the FireUp to 24. Hope the projectile is visible enough.



fireup_24.gif
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fireup_24.gif



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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Graion Dilach wrote:
That spider-mech thingy (it has a name as Cyborg Reaper, but dun mind that) was added in Firestorm. Best option is to use Splits logic (ProjectileRange=0) with a PreImpactAnim on first stage, using a dummy 1x1 shp with frame amount controlling the delay.


Oh... is that meaning to say spawning the Splits weapons can be delayed by PreImpactAnim to the moment the warhead actually "detonates"? o_o Wow... I did not know that.

Trans_C wrote:
Millennium wrote:
Infantry seem to spawn their projectile at the beginning of their firing sequence, unfortunately. Maybe someone wants to correct me on that, but I remember I came across that issue before.

Indeed there is someone who wants to correct you on this.
But since I'm now holding the venerable title of the guy who knows nothing but talking stupid nonsense about everything, a proof is necessary.
That's how it works when i set the FireUp to 24. Hope the projectile is visible enough.


Haha... okay! That will give me the ability now to fix some other graphics problems in my mod. Your title now passes back to me.

Last edited by Millennium on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Trans_C wrote:
Hope the projectile is visible enough.
that totally makes me wanna make kirov launchers.  not really but lol.

(i wish i could steal ur assets for asian stuff)

seeing those cursors also makes me want to consider dragging the unused RA3 cursors into RA2 . . . (all those great pin-shaped ones) cuz for stock cursors, the RA2 ones actually look more legit cuz they're actually 3d looking lul.

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Trans_C
AA Infantry


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Location: Somewhere in China

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Apparently I'm not a Japanese and all these Japanese civillian buildings are just created according to my imagination, so the authenticity is perhaps unreliable at best.
Anyway since they only appear once in EASB Hour and all these things only cost me half an hour, releasing them should be fine.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I believe those are GEN/ZH cursors?

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes they are...

...and no they're pretty darn good for authenticity...  Even if the layouts don't match any actual designs, everything is in the right place.  Although the komainu stones are probably unnecessary in places that aren't the haiden or along the sandou... little excessive having them at every entrance, but it still looks good.
and slightly imperfect is infinitely better than none at all.

now that's making me think of that map i still haven't finished in RA3... i should probably show that off here cuz why not, maybe someone will motivate me to finish it... It's a sky fortress, using the floating fortress pieces i put a ship in the sky, and it's got a shinto shrine and full japanese garden to the back of it. XD

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just realized ModEnc's description of the FireUp setting lacks the very crucial detail of what it does in an infantry art section, as opposed to a Sequence... I was kind of at a loss about what that setting actually does (although there is an accurate description in the artmd itself)... now that I know, yes, that would be pretty awesome for a charge logic. And the frames stopping when the target disappears would make sense, no? At least it's consistent with all the other charge methods in the game.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Geez, couple tiny details and i'm super pumped that my version of youmu is perfected now... there's a sorta ricochet sound for the iai, and then sword clang for animation, and a small shockwave+crater cuz it's a force hit not just a plain old sword... and i have full voices for her as well (in japanese, got them from a fandub). :3
that FireUp= thing was the cherry on top Very Happy

ps: i edited modenc to include the other use for fireup= . . . iono if changes show yet or not.

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Last edited by GenesisAria on Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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