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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya there is a matrix in a vxl file. And its in the files tail data  Laughing

I do not know why I forgot about that... I made a scripted a wail ago that read the voxel files... Link below shows train voxel file... still no rotation.

http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/temp/voxelload.php
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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW ViPr are you still working on 3ds2vxl...?

I do not know if I am using an old version or what, but I am thinking 3ds file format might have changed as the newer version of 3dsmax I have exports some thing 3ds2vxl can not handle... Specifically the textures, the mesh/normal seems fine. It just does not acknowledge the textures.
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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There has not been a new version of my program released for many years now.

I've had missing texture complaints ever since the early releases of my program. Are you sure you didn't just forget my program's peculiar requirements? Why would the 3D Studio Max company change the 3DS file format now?

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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So attached is a zip with 2 .3ds files and 1 texture file, and a screenshot from xcc showing two vxl outputs...

This 3ds model was from a public free site, so I was able to test older/other .3ds format.

So the 3ds file called "new3dsmax.3DS" is one that I created from importing into 3dsmax, I did have to reapply texture in material editor and mesh (into diffuse channel), then exporting back to 3ds file.

Then the file "Boat N100614.3DS" is straight from download. I have not edited it at all.

the texture file itself never changes, its used in both.

And the screenshot from xcc is the conversions from 3ds2vxl...
"Boat N100614.3DS" original file, worked fine... (1st row in image)
"new3dsmax.3DS" my edit, no texture... (2nd row in image)


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boat.zip
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Download
 Filename:  boat.zip
 Filesize:  1.29 MB
 Downloaded:  6 Time(s)


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Matthias M.
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Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible that you release (some) of your civilian assets under permissive https://creativecommons.org/licenses/ please? I am still hoping to make an emergency services mod, but I am not such a talented artist.

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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matthias M. I have no idea what any of that stupid legal crap means...  Rolling Eyes

I do not care to read what that site says... There to much text... Should have a mission statement... or a clearer one if its there...

If this helps, every thing I do and touch is free/opensource.. I guess...

The guess means, I do not own rights to creative things such as stuff from my hollyweird vxl packs or, designs of vehicles I base voxel off of. The only large concern I have is the Mario stuff... I know Nintendo is pretty hard on that kind of stuff...

I also use software that I do not own, such as Vxledit/HVAedit/Shpbuilder/3ds2vxl/Finalalert 2/XCC/3dsmax (this is the only major concern... as I think its the only one that cost money, but I could argue I used blender, witch I do some times)/blender/Im sure there are others I can not think of right now...

TBH, I do not give any shits about legal licence stuff as I make absolutely no money from this stuff! And neither should you!

This is all admiration and a hobby for me.

I would not suggest trying to sell anything I make...

As this image below is a voxel pack that contains vehicles that are based on real world vehicles properties/designs that I do not own.


So no, I would say do not sell it, but you may use it for a free project, just use common since to were legal crap may need to go if you are concerned about that stuff.

Hell! I shouldn't even have to have stated all that, all my downloads are in a file format that I do not "own" (if any one still owns them) vxl/hva/shp..., you get the idea...

If what I wrote sums up what your inquiring about then maybe I should state that on my site some were... Because I do have starwars/mario/BSG stuff like that on my site...

That was the dumbest thing I have typed... I should have just ignored that post...
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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MadHQ

Why is there a difference in the voxelizer text output of the two 3DS files before voxelization?

Why is there a difference in capitalization for the texture file name?

Does the texture work in 3D Studio Max when your edited 3DS file is reimported into it?

Are you telling me that the original 3DS file works better in my program than in 3D Studio Max?

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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

humm... This is odd... Im glad you asked if I imported the modified .3ds file back into 3dsmax and if the texture is there... Because its not...  Confused

First uploaded image shows 2 outputs from 3ds2vxl before voxelizing:
The top one is my edit/export... no texture file name is there... (no texture)
Bottom output shows file name (this is the old original file.)...

Now second uploaded image shows 2 things:
Top part shows original file imported, then picked material from object. This is odd as it shows file name in I guess Chinese... Does not find texture naturally...
Bottom part shows that I have added the texture back onto it, I then exported that... and tried to export/voxelize with same results (no texture).

Also I have just tried importing/exporting from blender... same results... no texture...

I have even tried to change the texture file name to some thing shorter... I changed it to "test"...

Its not just this 3d model its all 3d models...

Im not crazy... Confused

What the hell is going on...  Surprised


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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

humm...

with some googleing I found this...

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-3ds-max-design-general/texture-filenames-missing-from-3ds-export/td-p/4257233

I have not tried the users fix... as the link is dead...

But this almost doesn't seem like this could be it, as blender has the same issue...

Confused
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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems you have some Unicode problem.

The reason I think that is because of the appearance of Chinese text and the number of Chinese letters compared to the English letters.

I have no idea what to do.

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tomsons26lv
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Latvia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MadHQ wrote:
humm...

with some googleing I found this...

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-3ds-max-design-general/texture-filenames-missing-from-3ds-export/td-p/4257233

I have not tried the users fix... as the link is dead...

But this almost doesn't seem like this could be it, as blender has the same issue...

Confused


http://www.frogsinspace.at/?p=903
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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, but this doesn't fix Blender, does it.

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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So... A fun fact!

Software have these things called "updates"... And if you do not do updates you may not get fix's that have been made...  Laughing

So, I updated my version of 3dsmax to the most current version... and guess what...  Laughing

THEY FIXED IT...  Rolling Eyes who knew software developers did that...

Anyways, it is odd that blender does not work... But, does not concern me as I prefer to use 3dsmax anyways.
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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if all the other people, who are complaining about missing textures, are having the same problem.

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4StarGeneral
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing would be to create a new 3ds file and import it, then apply the texture renamed to non-unicode manually by saving the UVW from the original and applying it to the imported model. This would possibly fix Blender's version assuming Blender can import UVW's in the same format. (I haven't used Blender in quite awhile, so I don't know)
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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing this problem may have happened because an operating system update has broken some programs, and now those programs need to update also to compensate for, or adapt to, or take into account the operating system change.

What do you guys think?

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Matthias M.
Jumpjet Infantry


Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MadHQ wrote:
If this helps, every thing I do and touch is free/opensource.. I guess...

[...]

TBH, I do not give any shits about legal licence stuff as I make absolutely no money from this stuff! And neither should you!


The CC licenses are made for laymans. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ is probably what you would choose here. It won't be free/open source if you put non-commercial restrictions on it, but I don't blame you for that intuitive repulsion.

My intention isn't to sell your work. It is just that I always ask politely if art can be re-used and under which terms. By default you hold the copyright and no one is allowed to redistribute or modify without permission. I don't want to create a mod that just re-mixes stolen artwork, but maybe spark a community project with multiple contributors that stands firm on both ethical and legal grounds. Sounds like that may be more difficult than I expected.

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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViPr wrote:
I'm guessing this problem may have happened because an operating system update has broken some programs, and now those programs need to update also to compensate for, or adapt to, or take into account the operating system change.

What do you guys think?


I have no idea what caused the break... Though I would not be surprised if it was there mistake... They have made other odd blunders over the years...
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MadHQ
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


Well seeing as my site is still growing and I am still hanging around, I felt as though I needed to add a few things.
First: I have created a Permissions page that talks about permissions and legal crap.
Second: I have created a F.A.Q. page as I get a lot of similar questions.

Moving on to something more pleasant...
This is the last of the assets I was working on for my modded missions.
I thought it would be best to touch them up a little more before releasing them.

Civilian Work Vehicles Voxel Pack #4


Civilian Ship Voxel Pack #1



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Kamuix
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wo! boats are amazing, I love your work, well done

Last edited by Kamuix on Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool a hydrofoil! I remember riding one from Holland to England.

You should however make it about 40% smaller, they aren't very large...
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EVA-251
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

US Navy built a hydrofoil that was about 70 meters long at one point.
Overall though, hydrofoils were too complex, too expensive for the purposes they were meant to fulfill (compared to a more conventional ship design), so they never got too big.

Works fine as a piece of civvy scenery in RA2 though, which gives no ztypes about things such as practicality.
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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


I am really proud to showcase a new feature to my site. This feature is a .shp file viewer through HTML5 canvas.
Though it is still very much W.I.P., So far it seems stable enough to build into my site.

Go here http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/ Then Click the Shape Canvas Painter image to view demo Ra2/Yr .shp files in viewer.

Now, there is sill much to do, such as:
animations, terrain (tiles,trees,cliff...), maybe another shp format compression., maybe look into some kind of pallet solution...

This viewer is built into the SHP section of this site exactly like the Voxel viewer is.
I have omitted a few sph files/downloads, as the viewer is not ready for them.
Other wise have fun and let me know if you experience any problems.



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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the SHP files appears to be running incorrectly.

ngcnstdm.shp

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MadHQ
Commander


Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya...  Laughing

as said above... "maybe another shp format compression"...

I really have no idea, but that is what it looked like to me...

It doesn't cause an error/crash so I wasn't to worried... just some thing I have to iron out... And its is the only one I have seen so far...
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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...  Face palm!

Yup, that face icon thing summed it up...

I was sort of wondering why that shp's frame's was acting the way it was... Thought it was some other type of compression...

Nope, just forgot that span data length is 2 bytes... I was completely ignoring/screwing up any thing that was over the size of one byte, 256...

Face palm!

But the good news is, it is fixed.  Smile
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Kamuix
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Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

since I was ignored I just edited my post down to a basic "nice work" style post

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MadHQ
Commander


Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kamuix relax... I did read it, And I do not hate the idea of making more mini-vans... I think it would be a good idea. and I do plan on making more civi voxels, so i can make the dodge caravan some time. I have developed a bad habit of just not responding to request, as I have gotten lots in the past...

If you read my FAQ's, you may see my attitude towards request are not that great...

Link just in case.
http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/index.php?page=F.A.Q.

I just have very limited time these days, and I am not a dispenser...


Anyways!

I have been playing wit HTML5 some more...

I am currently playing with voxels again. My goal is to try and get voxels on "pixel" canvas, however the vxl format doesn't really blend its self that easily to sprites...

So, what I am going to do is use webGL to render the voxel file as a point cloud,  then pull image from the buffer, and then use it like a sprite. And as an added bonus! this is a lot more performance friendly.

Link bellow shows just that. NOTE: You need a browser that can support webGL (Use chrome)
http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/vxlrender/normalsvxldrawsprite.php?zipName=sovietunits.zip&fileName=zep.vxl

ALSO Note* I do not think the camera angle is right... I have it set as a modified isometric angle... So I still have to iron that out if it really bothers me... It seems okay for now.

Also... I know voxels with muilt sections are not working correct... (it wont crash, it just rotates odd.)

Now one thing you can see is I am not sure how the normal's 32 facings work... does ra2/yr even use 32 facings like the animation in the link shows? or is more like 360 spherical rotation... where does it even start?

Does anyone know?
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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I recall, Normals type 2 has 32 directions, type 4 has 256...
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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was 16 and 32...

I thought it was a pallet of 256 color multiplayer values per angle rotation (section)...

link shows all data in voxel.vpl.
http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/vxlrender/normalsread.php

Or have I been looking at this wrong the whole time? I am not sure how else to look at it...
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ApolloTD
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Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
As I recall, Normals type 2 has 32 directions, type 4 has 256...


No, type 2 (TS) is 36 surface normal directions, type 4 (RA2) is 244 normal facings. You can see this in VXLSE.

Each normal is per volume pixel.

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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8048&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8048&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

You can copy paste the normals from bglman from there. He actually apparently discovered 4 normals palettes although the games apparently use only 2 of them.

I already copy pasted them so you can just use the normals palette files from my program except, if I recall correctly, I screwed up on the last lines by not being consistent with whether the last line has a carriage return, but my program is able to handle that properly although other peoples' programs might get thrown-off by that.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wait, all the years the offsets of the normals in the exe were known?
Why has no one ever wrote a small editor to change them, so the ugly RA2 lighting is rotated 45° upwards? Thus giving the voxel some more light from top than the southwest side.

wow
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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because the light wouldn't work that way? The normals are ultimately remapped into a VPL page within the WW renderer.

This is why TS/RA2 renders voxels a lot worse than VXLSE or OpenRA, neither does that degradation. (TS also only uses the first 16 page, omitting the off-lighted ones, which means prolly you'd end up a lot happier with RA2 lighting if all voxels for RA2 would also only use TS normals).
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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach

I don't understand what you are saying in the parentheses part. Can you rephrase it?

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please consult with http://www.ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=30026 again.
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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I don't understand the VPL file. I never used it.

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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! I forgot about that topic at sleipnirstuff... Damn! That was a long time ago... Still after all these years I am still at it... And Still do not know much about how this game works...  Laughing

Now those normal values from that topic are I am guessing a universal table...

If I my guess is right the .vpl is a index redirect for a normal's pallet. Meaning when the unit turns in game it redirects the normal values...

I posted this before but I skipped 786 byte pallet... But I may have been incredibly stupid to skip 786 pallet, as that IS what I think I am looking for...

http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/vxlrender/normalsread.php

So I think each section in the .vlp is a series of index values that point to that index...

I must try that...



I know that skipped pallet is not unittemp... as unittemp looks like this.
http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/vxlrender/readcolors.php


Edited to clarify that I not talking about .vpl section index pointing to unittemp...
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can skip the internal palette, it's not used. But yes, your VPL understanding is correct (with unit???.pal being the one pointed towards to).
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ViPr
Gauss Rifle Trooper


Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MadHQ

Maybe it would be better if you didn't try to use the VPL file at first or maybe ever? I don't think any of the community made voxel renderers use it, do they?

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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, I think you meant 768; not 786.

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MadHQ
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Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya I may just give up on VPL... Its not making to much since to me...

The pallet is unused sadly... I decreased all values by 50% and nothing happens, as far as I noticed...

The 1st attached image is just all of section 0's index numbers set to "1" Not to much changes besides a the "north east" lighting (pointing to unit) I was hoping each section was a unit rotation value. But changing sections one affects multiple unit angles...

The 2nd attached image is each section's index numbers set to what ever section number it was on. meaning this...
http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/vxlrender/normalsnewtest.php

The 3rd attached image is the same just using a sphere instead of gtnk...

The really odd thing is it seems to redirect to unit temp... seeing as I set each sections index numbers to 1-32 (0 was transparent...) and  this is unittemps colors at least the early ones...

But I do think I will keep playing with it to see what happens.


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MadHQ
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol okay this is interesting....

I change all 32 sections, values 80-95 to "175" (green in unittemp pallet)...
I added "**" before and after a value that was changed... in this php display.
http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/vxlrender/normalsnewtestgreen.php
and well look at the results...

Is there even such a thing as a normal multiply value? I wonder if they just sift/swap unittemp index values...  Laughing


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay so now I have changed sections:
0-3, index's 80-95 (allied color)  to value "168" (green)
4-7, index's 80-95 (allied color)  to value "169" (green)
8-11, index's 80-95 (allied color)  to value "170" (green)
http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/vxlrender/normalsnewtestgreenchange.php

You should see the pattern every 4 sections I increment green index value...

What the hell is going on...  Laughing

I do think I am starting to see how the .vpl file truly works...  Laughing

Edited* Made things a little more clear and fixed bad counting...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are people sure there is 244 normal values?

Attached image shows custom normal Gradient effect, and it does not support that... Each number has two "columns" that are the same, with two different normal values from vxl edit.

Along with what I have been look at with the .vpl, it seems as thought the normal's are just pointers do different levels of unittemp...

Is this how it works?

Is it possible that the game only knows 32 face's...

yes you can use ranges 0-255 (or 244 or what ever) but the game engine divides down to only 0-31? Meaning only a 32 normal color pallet...


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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm still completely lost. So, I can't be the one to help you.

How big is the VPL file, by the way?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its 8976 bytes (9kb) link bellow shows what in it... (this is modified...)
http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/vxlrender/normalsnewtestgreen.php

Ya here is another look at normal's...

This is a 32 sided sphere from 3ds2vxl, vxl edit does show it does a really nice job getting allot of normal values...

However, once in game you start to see that is another story...

Its almost like chunks of the normal pallet are used per 32 .vpl facing...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another look...

http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/vxlrender/normalsnewtestbrown.php

I changed sections 0-7 index's (0-255) color index to "110" Brown-ish...

And look how many normal index values it changes...

EDITED post... Added new image (top one)
granitize the brown shading to show better.


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G-E
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible that the repeating 32-face idea includes a kind of skew? By that I mean it allows you to do in-between faces, or some kind of rotation?

Don't be afraid to challenge the accepted truth Smile
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MadHQ
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this is it for me today...

I should have done this in the first place...

http://zombapro.ppmsite.com/vxlrender/normals32.php

Image and php script/link shows all 32 sections granitize to soviet and allied index colors...

This to me really says there is only 32 working normal values...

And that normal's is not a multiply value. It is a pointer redirect to unittemp.

EDITED* Added grey-scale normal's image, top image (shows the lighting a bit better)


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Last edited by MadHQ on Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total

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