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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum
Getting to the bottom of the Speaker Tower
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PePsiCola
Sergeant


Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Location: The United States

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject:  Getting to the bottom of the Speaker Tower Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm giving this yet another go, still seeking a solution.

Basic rundown: I've given the AI a Speaker Tower as a base defense. The tower heals health and boosts firepower to any units near it via a healing weapon with a firepower AttachEffect. I've achieved the weapon in various ways, changing from an auto-firing Type=EMPulse SW, a healing weapon with positive damage/negative verses, and vice versa, and currently it auto fires on nearby units using AttackFriendlies=yes (but has infinite range anyway).

Current code is right here
Spoiler (click here to read it):
[NASTWR]
UIName=Name:NATWR
Name=Speaker Tower
Image=NATOWR
BuildCat=Combat
Prerequisite=NATECH,NACNST
Strength=600
Armor=steel
TechLevel=8
Adjacent=3
Sight=8
ForbiddenHouses=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance,Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs,YuriCountry,Ukraine,Greece,Italy,Norway,Vietnam,Japan,Phillipines,Australia,India
Owner=Chinese
AIBasePlanningSide=1 ;gs 0 for Good, 1 for Evil
Cost=2000
Points=30
Power=-150
Crewed=no
Capturable=false
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
Primary=PropagandaV
;EMPulseCannon=yes
;SuperWeapon=SpeakerSpecial
HasRadialIndicator=true
ConcentricRadialIndicator=true
Turret=no
TurretAnimZAdjust=-100
DebrisAnims=Dbris1sm,Dbris1lg,Dbris4sm,Dbris5sm,Dbris4lg,Dbris7sm,Dbris8sm,Dbris5lg,Dbris4lg
MaxDebris=15
MinDebris=5
ThreatPosed=40 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys,BigGreySmokeSys
DamageSmokeOffset=96, 64, 112
IsBaseDefense=no
BaseNormal=yes
Powered=yes
HasStupidGuardMode=false
WorkingSound=PowerOn
NotWorkingSound=PowerOff
ImmuneToPsionics=no ; defaults to yes for buildings, no for others
Drainable=yes
AntiInfantryValue=15
AntiArmorValue=15
AntiAirValue=0
;gs these three are in abstract units and just help the AI pick the right base defense. (see AIForcePredictionFudge)
SolidLevel=0
AttackFriendlies=yes

[PropagandaV]
Damage=65
ROF=300
Range=255
Projectile=Invisible
Speed=100
Warhead=PVWarhead
AreaFire=yes

[PVWarhead]
Wall=no
Wood=no
Verses=-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,0%,0%,0%,-100%,100%
InfDeath=0
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=1.25
AttachEffect.Duration=300
AttachEffect.Animation=POSFPWR
CellSpread=7.5
PercentAtMax=.5
AffectsAllies=yes
AffectsEnemies=no


So does it work for the player? Perfectly.
Does it work for the AI? Effects work fine, though being fired upon does cause all units to scatter. Other than that, it seems harmless.
The issue? An AI with Speaker Towers firing on its units will not build any important buildings more than once. Only power plants and base defenses are rebuilt. Any other structures will not be rebuilt. The key point there is firing on its units. Through using the Ares AI Control feature on a 1-player test skirmish, the AI would build its entire base, including speaker towers. I would assume control, sell a couple of my important buildings, give them back control, and the AI would rebuild their base no problem. I ran another test where the AI had no speaker towers, but instead a vehicle they would build as a defensive team that possessed the Speaker Tower's weapon. After a couple of these started firing on each other (healing/buffing one another), I sold a couple buildings, gave the AI control again, and the issue was back.

TL;DR: It's hard to conclude. The AI will not rebuild important structures if any of their units are being fired upon by friendly units/structures that possess AttachEffect without dealing damage. It doesn't make sense for this to be true, but it definitely appears to be the case for me. I haven't seen anyone ever report this sort of issue, and although I've seen Speaker Towers done, I haven't seen them used by the AI.

Could someone please give my codes a try to see if they find similar results?
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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would give a try on dropping AreaFire (it has some nasty sideeffects IMO) and instead use a Vertical/invisible voxel projectile or an invisible bullet with RangeLimit=0 or somewhere along these lines.
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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Have you tried giving the Warheads Malicious=no

As for my own code:
Code:
[SpeakerTower]
Damage=10
ROF=120
Range=5
Projectile=SpeakerTowerVertical
Speed=40
Warhead=SPEAKERWH
AreaFire=yes
OmniFire=yes
Anim=SPKRING

[SPEAKERWH]
Wall=no
Wood=no
Verses=-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,0%,0%,0%,-100%,-100%
CellSpread=6
PercentAtMax=.5
AffectsEnemies=no
AffectsAllies=yes
Versus.UnitSteel=-100%
AttachEffect.Animation=AE_SPKR
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=1.5
AttachEffect.ArmorMultiplier=1.5
AttachEffect.Duration=150

[NAPROP]
UIName=NOSTR:Speaker Tower
Name=Speaker Tower
BuildCat=Combat
Prerequisite=SOVTECH,NACNST
TechLevel=4
Adjacent=2
VoiceSelect=SpeakerTowerSelect
AmbientSound=SpeakerTowerAmbient
Primary=SpeakerTower
AttackFriendlies=yes
CanPassiveAquire=yes
HasRadialIndicator=yes
ConcentricRadialIndicator=yes
Strength=800
GuardRange=6
Armor=steel
Sight=8
Points=30
Owner=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance,Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs,YuriCountry
AIBasePlanningSide=1
Cost=1500
Power=-100
Powered=True
Capturable=False
Crewed=no
BaseNormal=no
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
DebrisAnims=DBRIS1LG,DBRIS1SM,DBRIS4LG,DBRIS4SM,DBRIS5LG,DBRIS5SM
HasStupidGuardMode=False
MaxDebris=4
MinDebris=2
TogglePower=yes
ThreatPosed=0
DamageSmokeOffset=450,200,150
AIBuildThis=no
ImmuneToPsionics=yes

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PePsiCola
Sergeant


Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Location: The United States

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Neither option worked, nor did a combination of both. At first I looked at the differences between my code and the above one, and the only significant differences were mine not having CanPassiveAquire=yes, and mine had a ThreatPosed value greater than 0. I made these changes, which left the tower working for the player, but not even firing for the AI. Interestingly, it still led to the same bug nonetheless.

It's worth noting that if the AI has no opponents (using AI Control on a 1-player game), it still won't fire, but the bug doesn't occur and prevent them from rebuilding their base.
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PePsiCola
Sergeant


Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Location: The United States

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alright, I'm revisiting this issue and I'm sooo eager to finally resolve this once and for all. The speaker tower is a neat building, so it's shame I've yet to get the AI to use it without struggle.

I just ran a few tests before posting. Using the latest test build of Ares, the issue still occurs as always with the coding I gave above. Surprisingly enough, as Graion suggested, the issue no longer occurred after removing AreaFire from the weapon code. Unfortunately, the speaker tower also doesn't work without AreaFire, for players or AI.

Here's the current code. Is there another way to achieve this effect without AreaFire? Simply adding AreaFire to this current weapon code allows it to work, but also breaks the AI.

Code:
;The commented AI base defense keys will be implemented once it works. For now I just have them building one
[NASTWR]
UIName=NOSTR:Speaker Tower
Name=Speaker Tower
Image=NATOWR
BuildCat=Combat
Prerequisite=NATECH,NACNST
Strength=600
Armor=steel
TechLevel=8
Adjacent=3
Sight=8
ForbiddenHouses=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance,Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs,YuriCountry,Ukraine,Greece,Italy,Norway,Vietnam,Japan,Phillipines,Australia,India
Owner=Chinese
AIBasePlanningSide=1 ;gs 0 for Good, 1 for Evil
Cost=2000
Points=30
Power=-150
Crewed=no
Capturable=false
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
Primary=SpeakerTower
HasRadialIndicator=true
ConcentricRadialIndicator=true
DebrisAnims=Dbris1sm,Dbris1lg,Dbris4sm,Dbris5sm,Dbris4lg,Dbris7sm,Dbris8sm,Dbris5lg,Dbris4lg
MaxDebris=15
MinDebris=5
ThreatPosed=0 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys,BigGreySmokeSys
DamageSmokeOffset=96, 64, 112
IsBaseDefense=no
BaseNormal=yes
Powered=true
HasStupidGuardMode=false
WorkingSound=PowerOn
NotWorkingSound=PowerOff
ImmuneToPsionics=no ; defaults to yes for buildings, no for others
Drainable=yes
;AntiInfantryValue=30
;AntiArmorValue=30
;AntiAirValue=0
SolidLevel=0
AttackFriendlies=yes
;CanPassiveAquire=yes
AIBuildThis=yes

[SpeakerTower]
Damage=65
ROF=300
Range=255
Projectile=InvisibleSP
Speed=100
Warhead=PVWarhead
OmniFire=yes

[InvisibleSP]
Inviso=yes
Image=none
Vertical=yes

[PVWarhead]
Wall=no
Wood=no
Verses=-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,0%,0%,0%,-100%,-100%
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=1.25
AttachEffect.Duration=300
AttachEffect.Animation=POSFPWR
CellSpread=7.5
PercentAtMax=.5
AffectsAllies=yes
AffectsEnemies=no

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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What I did is letting it fire on some neutral CivilianEnemy=yes unit.
My repair zone can also kick off enemy terror drone #Tongue
Also you need PreventScatter=yes
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PePsiCola
Sergeant


Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Location: The United States

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ugh, I thought I had it, but I didn't.

So I added Malicious=no and PreventScatter=yes to the warhead. Tested and the AI didn't break after building the tower. Unfortunately, I realized I had also commented out AreaFire on the weapon, which as I said, is the key that makes the tower actually work.

So after several years trying to figure this out, I'm concluding that:
- You can have a working Speaker Tower, but the AI will break if they use it
- You can have the AI build a Speaker Tower, but only if it doesn't actually function (meaning the player can't use it either)

It honestly makes no sense to me why I haven't figured this out. What's the point of an auto-firing AttachEffect building if it breaks the AI? I also don't know if AreaFire is to blame, but rather the AI's handling of having their own units constantly hit with an AttachEffect warhead from their own base. Yet I have them use AttachEffect and repair SWs on themselves all the time without issue.

So the most important question here: has anyone successfully made a Speaker Tower that functions for both player and AI?
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MRMIdAS
Laser Commando


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm, you tried making an AttachEffect.Animation= on the building, give that animation a dummy warhead with your actual attacheffect on?
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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I just made one from MasterHaosis' Allied Base Expansion Node and brutal AI still rushed me with (now buffed) medium tanks because they 'conveniently' placed the GANODE next to GAWEAP (and thinking about it, ToProtect=yes sounds great). So if nothing at all they ignored it or used it unintentionally:
Code:
[GANODE]
UIName=Name:ATESLA
Name=Allied Base Expansion Node
BuildCat=Combat
Prerequisite=POWER,RADAR,GACNST
Strength=500
Primary=BuffWeapon
Turret=no
TechLevel=7
AntiInfantryValue=25
AntiArmorValue=25
AntiAirValue=0
Sight=8
Armor=wood
Cost=700
Points=20
Power=-10
Owner=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance,Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs,YuriCountry
AIBasePlanningSide=0 ;gs 0 for Good, 1 for Evil
Capturable=true
Crewed=no
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
DebrisAnims=DBRIS1LG,DBRIS1SM,DBRIS2LG,DBRIS4LG,DBRIS4SM,DBRIS5LG,DBRIS5SM,DBRIS6LG,DBRIS6SM,DBRIS7LG
MaxDebris=5
MinDebris=3
ThreatPosed=10
SpecialThreatValue=1
IsBaseDefense=yes
AIBuildThis=yes
BaseNormal=yes
DefaultToGuardArea=yes ; the much awaited dog default to move and attack when resting
GuardRange=255

[BuffWeapon]
Damage=1
ROF=60
Range=-2
Speed=50
AreaFire=yes
FireOnce=no
Projectile=InvisibleHigh
Warhead=BuffMyUnitsWH
IsRadEruption=yes
Report=PropagandaTruck

[BuffMyUnitsWH]
CellSpread=4
PercentAtMax=.1
Verses=3%,3%,3%,3%,3%,3%,0%,0%,0%,3%,3%
InfDeath=1
Malicious=no
AffectsEnemies=no
AffectsOwner=yes
PreventScatter=yes
AttachEffect.Animation=HEALONE
AttachEffect.Duration=90
AttachEffect.SpeedMultiplier=1.25
AttachEffect.ArmorMultiplier=1.25
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=1.25
AttachEffect.PenetratesIronCurtain=yes
AttachEffect.AnimResetOnReapply=yes


Set to AIBuildThis=yes because I didn't feel like adding it to defense lists. And if you want it to heal, give [HEALONE] (or whatever anim you're using) Damage=-## {where ## == actual damage / frames (or 3 == 90 damage over 30 frames)} or Damage=## /w a negative versus warhead, whichever works.
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PePsiCola
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Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Location: The United States

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't what it is specifically you've got in that code, but that coding actually works perfectly! And additionally, no problems even after adding it to defense lists. I can't thank you enough 4Star haha that's been the one feature in my mod I haven't been able to figure out  Very Happy
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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Required tags I think should be:
Code:
DefaultToGuardArea=yes
GuardRange=255

Damage=1
Range=-2
AreaFire=yes

PercentAtMax=.1
Verses=3%,3%,3%,3%,3%,3%,0%,0%,0%,3%,3%
Malicious=no
AffectsEnemies=no
AffectsOwner=yes
PreventScatter=yes

Essentially it does negligible damage (0.02 directly next to the 1x1 and less going outward) so the AI ignores it. You should be able to change it to AffectsOwnerAllies and be fine too and obviously IsRadEruption doesn't change anything, just easy to make sure it's working.
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NimoStar
Cyborg Commando


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Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I propose another solution, instead of using negative warhead verses, use negative damage. In this way the AI will not know their units are being "damaged" but healed. Negative damage is what is used for medic units so this was debugged in TS, unlike negative verses which were AFAIK never used for units.

(this is bump but could be useful to someone)
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MRMIdAS
Laser Commando


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

NimoStar wrote:
I propose another solution, instead of using negative warhead verses, use negative damage. In this way the AI will not know their units are being "damaged" but healed. Negative damage is what is used for medic units so this was debugged in TS, unlike negative verses which were AFAIK never used for units.

(this is bump but could be useful to someone)


From my experience, negative damage doesn't work against stuff with different armour types, it's why you can't give an ambulance the medic's heal weapon, just won't work.

Negative verses do work however, but the damage is treated like an attack.

Long and short, with negative damage, only buildings can heal buildings, only vehicles can heal vehicles, and only infantry can heal infantry.
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NimoStar
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
it's why you can't give an ambulance the medic's heal weapon


I thought that limitation was only because vehicles can't heal an infantrytype. But possibly buildings can?

Also, another thing:

Give the -1 damage weapon an attacheffect anim with negative damage in artmd.ini

That way even if the -1 from the weapon doesn't heal, the one in the anim will.

Tada? At least worth trying.

PS: Now if even that doesn't work, super complicated idea.

Make each tower a unique, hidden, automatically shooting superweapon that targets itself. It creates an imageless VehicleType and InfantryType. Those self-destruct with negative damage, generating the heal effect in infantry and vehicles respectively. Nothoing could wrong went have :V
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PePsiCola
Sergeant


Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Location: The United States

PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Your last suggestion and what 4Star suggested above is essentially what has worked for me without issue for the last few years now. Since you revived this subject, I'll share what I ended up with:

Code:
[NASTWR]
UIName=Name:NATWR
Name=Speaker Tower
Image=NATOWR
BuildCat=Combat
Prerequisite=NATECH,NACNST
Strength=750
Armor=steel
TechLevel=8
Adjacent=3
Sight=8
ForbiddenHouses=British,French,Germans,Americans,Alliance,Russians,Confederation,Africans,Arabs,YuriCountry,Ukraine,Greece,Italy,Norway,Vietnam,Japan,Phillipines,Australia,India
Owner=Chinese
AIBasePlanningSide=1 ;gs 0 for Good, 1 for Evil
Cost=1500
Points=30
Power=-150
Crewed=no
Capturable=false
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
Primary=PropagandaV
HasRadialIndicator=true
ConcentricRadialIndicator=true
DebrisAnims=Dbris1sm,Dbris1lg,Dbris4sm,Dbris5sm,Dbris4lg,Dbris7sm,Dbris8sm,Dbris5lg,Dbris4lg
MaxDebris=15
MinDebris=5
ThreatPosed=0 ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys,BigGreySmokeSys
DamageSmokeOffset=96, 64, 112
IsBaseDefense=yes
Powered=true
HasStupidGuardMode=false
WorkingSound=PowerOn
NotWorkingSound=PowerOff
ImmuneToPsionics=no ; defaults to yes for buildings, no for others
Drainable=yes
AntiInfantryValue=30
AntiArmorValue=30
AntiAirValue=10
SolidLevel=0
GuardRange=255
DefaultToGuardArea=yes
SpecialThreatValue=1
;AttackFriendlies=yes
;CanPassiveAquire=yes
AIInnerBase=yes ;that's just so they build them in the center, where they will gather many units that can get buffed

[PropagandaV]
Damage=0
ROF=75
Range=-2
Projectile=InvisibleSP
Speed=50
Warhead=PVWarhead
;IsRadEruption=yes
FireOnce=no
AreaFire=yes
Anim=RINGB

[PVWarhead]
Wall=no
Wood=no
InfDeath=1
Verses=3%,3%,3%,3%,3%,3%,0%,0%,0%,3%,3%
AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=1.35
AttachEffect.SpeedMultiplier=1.35
AttachEffect.Duration=300
AttachEffect.PenetratesIronCurtain=yes
AttachEffect.Animation=POSFPWR
CellSpread=6
PercentAtMax=.1
AffectsAllies=yes
AffectsEnemies=no
PreventScatter=yes
Malicious=no

[POSFPWR]
LoopEnd=4
Rate=450
DemandLoad=true
Layer=Top
Damage=0.5
Warhead=Slimer

[Slimer] ;not sure why I used this existing warhead. Probably because it goes unused in vanilla as it's from TS. This has negative verses for the positive damage on the POSFPWR animation
Verses=-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,-100%,0%,0%,0%,-100%,-100%
InfDeath=0
CellSpread=6
Wall=no
Wood=no
PercentAtMax=.5
AffectsAllies=yes
AffectsEnemies=no
PreventScatter=yes
Malicious=no


I would have done more than 0.5 damage/healing per frame, as it's a bit slow, but from what I recall in testing it way back when, going higher than a few whole numbers would break the AI, as the damage became "noticeable," or something like that. But this has worked perfectly other than the relatively slow healing. The AI unit don't even react/scatter to being buffed.
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