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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
Is it possible for units to build structures?
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twistedconversion
Grenadier


Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Egypt

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject:  Is it possible for units to build structures?
Subject description: like in Generals?
Reply with quote

As the title says.
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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean like in Generals?

Or deploying into a building like the MCVs we all know and love?

Be a bit more descriptive.

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twistedconversion
Grenadier


Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Egypt

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Inhales with teeth closed in anger* just like the dozer from Generals building a structure. Is this possible?

Also, how the f*** do you assume that I don't know if an MCV is possible? IT'S ALREADY POSSIBLE, DUMBASS!

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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not possible.
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twistedconversion
Grenadier


Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Egypt

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then this https://ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=46883 is almost useless.
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HG_SCIPCION
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 07 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mig Eater wrote:
Not possible.



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cxtian39
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can do it approximately in an over-complicated way
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twistedconversion
Grenadier


Joined: 23 Feb 2019
Location: Egypt

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cxtian39 wrote:
You can do it approximately in an over-complicated way


Then post the over-complicated way in the tutorials forum.
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Last edited by twistedconversion on Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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unknown_men
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 09 Apr 2015
Location: Vi?t Nam

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little example, A base unit deploy into a base conyard building that need add-on attachment to work, a conyard build the add-on and have a superweapon to spawn a base unit (with a cost), then loop.
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NimoStar
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Joined: 07 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to ask this from openRA since its basically the only thing needed to make a Starcraft-like or AOE-like mod.

However they would not listedn.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NimoStar wrote:
I wanted to ask this from openRA since its basically the only thing needed to make a Starcraft-like or AOE-like mod.

However they would not listedn.

stop whining and blaming others.
Such logic is already implemented.
Look at Nomad Galaxy. There are no buildings, the big ships serve also as factories.
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Rakaziel
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Joined: 20 May 2019

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could use IsBase= to give the Unit in question a Construction Radius, build Building A
and give the Unit a Power Up Ray (like the Tesla Trooper has for the Tesla Tower)
and then use Brute Transformation (InfantryDeath=9) logic
to have Building A use a powered up suicide attack that transforms it into another building (or a Unit that deploys into one).

Or use Gatling Logic and Brute Transformation logic to have your "Builder" kill "Rocks" (that count as Infantry)
(In order to keep it a "Builder" unit, have all the actual enemies be immune against the attack type of the "Builder's" weapon
and have three different (one per Gatling Stage) InfantryDeath transformations (that then auto-deploy into buildings)
If your Builder can Deploy you can have him build 6 different Buildings (via 2 different Gatlings)
and another 6 Buildings at Elite Veteran Level.

Or some way to directly make the ability to Deploy dependent on Power Ups -
only way to implement that (that I see) would be to somehow have the unit give the building a veteran level (using Crate logic?)

Alternately maybe use your Construction Radius to spawn Tiberium (conveniently there are different variants)
and transform other units into deployable Buildings by having them killed by the different variants of Tiberium.

None of these are a clean solutions

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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rakaziel wrote:
None of these are a clean solutions


None of these are solutions...

Rakaziel wrote:
You could use IsBase= to give the Unit in question a Construction Radius, build Building A
and give the Unit a Power Up Ray (like the Tesla Trooper has for the Tesla Tower)
and then use Brute Transformation (InfantryDeath=9) logic
to have Building A use a powered up suicide attack that transforms it into another building (or a Unit that deploys into one).



  • IsBase= is a old tag from Tiberian Sun & doesn't do anything in RA2, even if it did though it's a building tag & doesn't work on units.
  • The Tesla Trooper ElectricAssault/Overpowerable logic only works with infantry powering up buildings.
  • InfantryDeath is as the name would suggest for infantry & doesn't work on buildings.
  • Buildings can only spawn infantry upon their death & not units.


With this you would still need to build a building in the normal manner, the unit would just be "converting/upgrading" it.


Rakaziel wrote:
Or use Gatling Logic and Brute Transformation logic to have your "Builder" kill "Rocks" (that count as Infantry)
(In order to keep it a "Builder" unit, have all the actual enemies be immune against the attack type of the "Builder's" weapon
and have three different (one per Gatling Stage) InfantryDeath transformations (that then auto-deploy into buildings)
If your Builder can Deploy you can have him build 6 different Buildings (via 2 different Gatlings)
and another 6 Buildings at Elite Veteran Level.



  • Rocks are terrain objects that cant use any code related to infantry.
  • Infantry cant deploy into buildings.


The rocks (why rocks of all things?) would have to be pre-placed at specific location on the map for the player to convert into buildings. In which case why not just have the actual buildings on the map so you can capture them. Or have dummy buildings that once captured fire a SW that spawns the proper building.
   

Rakaziel wrote:
Or some way to directly make the ability to Deploy dependent on Power Ups -
only way to implement that (that I see) would be to somehow have the unit give the building a veteran level (using Crate logic?)


  • Veteran level doesn't effect what a unit deploys into.



Rakaziel wrote:
Alternately maybe use your Construction Radius to spawn Tiberium (conveniently there are different variants)
and transform other units into deployable Buildings by having them killed by the different variants of Tiberium.



  • Units cant deploy upon death.
  • Units cant change what they will deploy into based on the type of damage that killed them.  
  • buildings cant be deployed/placed on top of Tiberium.


Why Tiberium? There are easier ways to make different AOE weapons.  
Also if you have to build a unit & then kill it to make it deploy, why not just deploy it like normal in the first place?
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silverwind
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can this work? Uses UnitDelivery SW, and Advanced Rubble.

1. Use Unit Delivery SW to deliver a 'construction site', with a 'Builder' acting as a SW Designator, allowing construction wherever there's a Builder.

2. once delivered, the 'construction site' would destroy itself via AttachEffect, and turn into an AdvancedRubble with the same image plus scaffolding.

3. a 'builder' (actually an engineer) may then 'finish' this construction, (basically restoring an Advanced Rubble) into the final building.


EDIT: Just tested. This works as intended. The effect is that the normal building construction (or UnitDelivery SW targeting) only serves to let the player place the construction sites. A builder (in this case an engineer) is needed to actually finish construction and for the building to function.

If that BigInfantry suggestion passes, that can be used to make a faux Dozer/Engineer hybrid.

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WoRmINaToR
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Location: AKA Sir Prize

PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only problem with that approach will be build times. I'm not aware of Advanced Rubble being able to account for any sort of delay between the repairing unit entering and the building being "restored." This could lead to a scenario where someone walks a builder unit just outside someone's base, has a spawn SW ready for a defensive structure, places it, and immediately builds it up with their builder unit. I could see that being abused in a multitude of ways.
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silverwind
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two ways around that. Step 1 doesn't necessarily have to be a SW-based placement. it can be a normal construction with the added benefit of building foundation being shown and the ability to divide structures into the two tabs we already have, instead of just the base defenses tab. This method feels better for me.

The other way is to use Rubble.Destroyed.Anim= to put an artificial delay between the moment of 'destruction', and the actual rubble appearing. I haven't tested this, so I don't know if engineers are prevented from restoring the building while the Anim is playing, but they should.

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Mr.Hymn
Soldier


Joined: 01 May 2020

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

silverwind wrote:
Can this work? Uses UnitDelivery SW, and Advanced Rubble.

1. Use Unit Delivery SW to deliver a 'construction site', with a 'Builder' acting as a SW Designator, allowing construction wherever there's a Builder.

2. once delivered, the 'construction site' would destroy itself via AttachEffect, and turn into an AdvancedRubble with the same image plus scaffolding.

3. a 'builder' (actually an engineer) may then 'finish' this construction, (basically restoring an Advanced Rubble) into the final building.


EDIT: Just tested. This works as intended. The effect is that the normal building construction (or UnitDelivery SW targeting) only serves to let the player place the construction sites. A builder (in this case an engineer) is needed to actually finish construction and for the building to function.

If that BigInfantry suggestion passes, that can be used to make a faux Dozer/Engineer hybrid.


Can I know how please? Because I don't know how to make a designator for sw unit delivery.

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tomsons26lv
Cyborg Artillery


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Location: Latvia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No its not even from TS, IsBase is just the internal name for BaseNormal.
https://github.com/electronicarts/CnC_Remastered_Collection/blob/master/REDALERT/BDATA.CPP#L3775
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silverwind
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Hymn wrote:

Can I know how please? Because I don't know how to make a designator for sw unit delivery.

I've only mentioned the extra keys for each section.


; Existing building
[NAHAND] ;Soviet Barracks, as prerequisite for NAWEAP
SuperWeapons=NAWEAPSW

; New Infantry
[BUILDER] ;the unit you want as a builder. Copy from an Engineer.
Image=ENGINEER ; change this if you have something better
Engineer=yes
DesignatorRange=7 ;Defaults to Sight= value

; New Superweapon
; Delivery Superweapon for Soviet War Factory.
[NAWEAPSW] ; You need one for each building.
Type=UnitDelivery ; You can deliver any technotype
SW.Designators=BUILDER ; the destination must be around this technotype
Deliver.Types=NAWEAPSITE ;what to deliver
Money.Amount=-2000 ; how much it would cost
SW.AuxBuildings=NACNST ; this makes the SW unavailable unless the player has this building

; New Building ; copy from NAWEAP, and change as necessary
[NAWEAPSITE] ;ART code for this needs the same foundation as NAWEAP. image can be invisible.
Strength=1
Armor=wood
Rubble.Destroyed=NAWEAPSITE2 ; when destroyed, turn into this.
TechLevel=-1 ;you won't be building this normally
AttachEffect.Animation=KILLSELF ;animation ART code will kill the unit slowly
AttachEffect.Duration=-1 ;till death

; New Building
[NAWEAPSITE2] ;this too. This is the actual construction site as it appears to the player
Rubble.Intact=NAWEAP ;the actual building you want to deliver
Rubble.Intact.Strength=1000 ;match NAWEAP's Strength=
Rubble.Intact.Anim=NAWEAPMK
TechLevel=-1 ;you won't be building this normally

; Existing Building
[NAWEAP]
TechLevel=-1 ;you won't be building this normally

;New Warhead
[KSWH] ;universal kill-self anim WH
AffectsOwner=yes
Malicious=no
Verses=100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%

;;///ART
;; Create ART sections for [NAWEAPSITE] and [NAWEAPSITE2] as necessary

; New Animation ; you can re-use this animation for everything
[KILLSELF]
Image=NULL
Damage=1000
Warhead=KSWH



That should do the trick. Make sure you add everything to the respective lists.

How this works is, once you have a soviet barracks, you gain access to a superweapon that delivers a fake building. This building destroys itself with an attacheffect animation, turning itself into another building (the construction site). When you send a Engineer or Builder into the construction site, it turns into the final building, a soviet War Factory, in this case.

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Mr.Hymn
Soldier


Joined: 01 May 2020

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

silverwind wrote:
Mr.Hymn wrote:

Can I know how please? Because I don't know how to make a designator for sw unit delivery.

I've only mentioned the extra keys for each section.


; Existing building
[NAHAND] ;Soviet Barracks, as prerequisite for NAWEAP
SuperWeapons=NAWEAPSW

; New Infantry
[BUILDER] ;the unit you want as a builder. Copy from an Engineer.
Image=ENGINEER ; change this if you have something better
Engineer=yes
DesignatorRange=7 ;Defaults to Sight= value

; New Superweapon
; Delivery Superweapon for Soviet War Factory.
[NAWEAPSW] ; You need one for each building.
Type=UnitDelivery ; You can deliver any technotype
SW.Designators=BUILDER ; the destination must be around this technotype
Deliver.Types=NAWEAPSITE ;what to deliver
Money.Amount=-2000 ; how much it would cost
SW.AuxBuildings=NACNST ; this makes the SW unavailable unless the player has this building

; New Building ; copy from NAWEAP, and change as necessary
[NAWEAPSITE] ;ART code for this needs the same foundation as NAWEAP. image can be invisible.
Strength=1
Armor=wood
Rubble.Destroyed=NAWEAPSITE2 ; when destroyed, turn into this.
TechLevel=-1 ;you won't be building this normally
AttachEffect.Animation=KILLSELF ;animation ART code will kill the unit slowly
AttachEffect.Duration=-1 ;till death

; New Building
[NAWEAPSITE2] ;this too. This is the actual construction site as it appears to the player
Rubble.Intact=NAWEAP ;the actual building you want to deliver
Rubble.Intact.Strength=1000 ;match NAWEAP's Strength=
Rubble.Intact.Anim=NAWEAPMK
TechLevel=-1 ;you won't be building this normally

; Existing Building
[NAWEAP]
TechLevel=-1 ;you won't be building this normally

;New Warhead
[KSWH] ;universal kill-self anim WH
AffectsOwner=yes
Malicious=no
Verses=100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%,100%

;;///ART
;; Create ART sections for [NAWEAPSITE] and [NAWEAPSITE2] as necessary

; New Animation ; you can re-use this animation for everything
[KILLSELF]
Image=NULL
Damage=1000
Warhead=KSWH



That should do the trick. Make sure you add everything to the respective lists.

How this works is, once you have a soviet barracks, you gain access to a superweapon that delivers a fake building. This building destroys itself with an attacheffect animation, turning itself into another building (the construction site). When you send a Engineer or Builder into the construction site, it turns into the final building, a soviet War Factory, in this case.


Thank you very much. I am very appreciated.

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