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 Forum index » Modding Central » Tiberian Sun Editing Forum
Swimming Infantry?
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Potato_Doggo
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 02 Nov 2019

PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:02 am    Post subject:  Swimming Infantry?
Subject description: Trying to make TS infantry swim
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I've been modding TS for about a month now, and have not been able to find an answer to if the TS engine supports letting infantry swim like in RA2. I have tried giving the unit both the amphibious speedtype with the infantry locomotor and it with the amphibious locomotor but they don't seem to do anything. Is this possible?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no
-TS has no swimming logic
-infantry are hardcoded to use SpeedType=Foot
-the infantry locomotor doesn't allow them to walk on water
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Potato_Doggo
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Joined: 02 Nov 2019

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I suppose I'll have to find some sort of other way.

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Potato_Doggo
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 02 Nov 2019

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I have a few more questions but I don't want to make a new topic for this.
1. Is there a way to make an apc able to deploy the troops inside it and then deploy into a structure?
2. Does typeimmune work with airburst? (My MIRV submarines keep blowing each other up)
3. Is there a way to make a weapon have spread greater than 3x3 squares? (I know about the debris thing and want to see if theres another way)
4. What is the maximum size for a unit shp?
5. Are non-walker shp vehicles possible? (I've ported the sub image from RA1 for testing purposes and it refuses to show even though I've changed the palette, resized it, put it in an ecache file which is in my game directory as well as in an expand file.)

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potato_Doggo wrote:
1. Is there a way to make an apc able to deploy the troops inside it and then deploy into a structure?

The APC will receive the order, but never carry it out. But try it yourself, it might just work; I tried with miners long ago. Nothing happened.

Potato_Doggo wrote:
5. Are non-walker shp vehicles possible? (I've ported the sub image from RA1 for testing purposes and it refuses to show even though I've changed the palette, resized it, put it in an ecache file which is in my game directory as well as in an expand file.)

Counter question: why wouldn't it be possible? The walkers all have their "walking" animation in the SHP. If that "walking" animation is just the tank treads moving (or staying still, even) the game won't care as long as you don't butcher the definitions of the SHP and its "walking" frames.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potato_Doggo wrote:
1. Is there a way to make an apc able to deploy the troops inside it and then deploy into a structure?

no, both deploy commands refer to the same command and only one can be used, which is the first default one to deploy the passengers.

Potato_Doggo wrote:
2. Does typeimmune work with airburst? (My MIRV submarines keep blowing each other up)

TypeImmune works only for the weapon with the same identity and owner. Since an Airburst weapon changes the weapon identity to a 2nd stage weapon, it seems to be not useable for your case.

You may try giving the unit as Secondary the Airburst 2nd stage weapon.
This way the unit should be immune to it again, but you have to make sure the weapon isn't fired. Like having worse Verses than the primary Airburst weapon's warhead. The game always uses the weapon whose warheads Verses are higher against the given target.

Potato_Doggo wrote:
3. Is there a way to make a weapon have spread greater than 3x3 squares? (I know about the debris thing and want to see if theres another way)

Webby logic can be used and for each web particle you instead use a damaging particle. Webby logic creates a single particle on each cell in the given WebRadius.

Simply using Cluser=3 (or higher values) on the projectile also works (no Airburst or Splits, just Cluster)
It will then put on a random location with a Radius about 2.5 cells away from the center the additional explosions, which are exactly the same as the main weapon explosion (it simply duplicates the explosions by the number set on Cluster)

Potato_Doggo wrote:
4. What is the maximum size for a unit shp?

160x160 pixel for turreted SHP units, otherwise no known limit.

Potato_Doggo wrote:
5. Are non-walker shp vehicles possible? (I've ported the sub image from RA1 for testing purposes and it refuses to show even though I've changed the palette, resized it, put it in an ecache file which is in my game directory as well as in an expand file.)

yes
RA1 submarine has 16 facings, by default TS only allows 8 facing SHPs. You need a hack done to allow 32 facings and then have to change the RA1 SHP to match this (double all facings)

Since it doesn't show up at all is most likely a coding error. Wrong art.ini ID, rules.ini ID, not listed in [VehicleTypes] list, using bad/wrong Image= key etc
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Potato_Doggo
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 02 Nov 2019

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You may try giving the unit as Secondary the Airburst 2nd stage weapon.
This way the unit should be immune to it again, but you have to make sure the weapon isn't fired. Like having worse Verses than the primary Airburst weapon's warhead. The game always uses the weapon whose warheads Verses are higher against the given target.

So does this mean that if I double the damage and halve the verses on the second stage and give it to the sub as a secondary typeimmune will work while still maintaining the damage?
Quote:
RA1 submarine has 16 facings, by default TS only allows 8 facing SHPs. You need a hack done to allow 32 facings and then have to change the RA1 SHP to match this (double all facings)

I've gone into shp builder and cleared all extra frames to leave 8 frames so I would assume that's not the problem. As for the art.ini data, I will leave it here.
Code:

[SUBBY]
Image=subby
Voxel=no
Remapable=yes
PrimaryFireFLH=135,20,0
Cameo=ARTYICON

[SUBBYM]
Image=subbym
Voxel=no
Remapable=yes
PrimaryFireFLH=90,10,0
Cameo=ARTYICON

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potato_Doggo wrote:
So does this mean that if I double the damage and halve the verses on the second stage and give it to the sub as a secondary typeimmune will work while still maintaining the damage?

it should. you can only be sure by trying it.

though i would go the other way and give the primary higher verses. After all this is for targeting only.
e.g.
[MyUnit]
Primary=TargetingWeap

[TargetingWeap]
Damage=0 ;Damage=1 may be necessary, so it is considered as an effective weapon and used instead of Secondary
Projectile=StartCluster
Warhead=TargetWH
[TargetWH]
Verses=1000%,1000%,1000%,1000%,1000%  ;always preferred over any orther warhead

Potato_Doggo wrote:
I've gone into shp builder and cleared all extra frames to leave 8 frames so I would assume that's not the problem. As for the art.ini data, I will leave it here.
Code:

[SUBBY]
Image=subby
Voxel=no
Remapable=yes
PrimaryFireFLH=135,20,0
Cameo=ARTYICON

[SUBBYM]
Image=subbym
Voxel=no
Remapable=yes
PrimaryFireFLH=90,10,0
Cameo=ARTYICON

remove the Image keys, you've set them wrong
a) they are redundant when the same as the ID
b) you set subby and not SUBBY, the IDs are case sensitive
you look for a [subby] section in art.ini which doesn't exist
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
using bad/wrong Image= key etc
Wink
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Potato_Doggo
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 02 Nov 2019

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have done some testing :
When I did the sub thing, since the sub missile has minimumrange=10, the sub used the secondary at close range. Also, when I forcefired at a cell near an allied sub, it still blew up. Is there something I'm doing wrong?
Code:

[TEST]
Image=SUB ;ICBM ;This is a different image that works. The spinny shp thing is unrelated
Name=Submarine
Category=AFV
Prerequisite=NAFLOT,SPYRA
Primary=SubICBM
Secondary=MIRVS2
Strength=1000
Armor=heavy
TechLevel=10
CrateGoodie=no
Sight=3
Speed=5
Owner=NN
Cost=2500
Points=50
ROT=6
Crusher=yes
Crewed=no
AllowedToStartInMultiplayer=no
Explosion=TWLT070,S_BANG48,S_BRNL58,S_CLSN58,S_TUMU60
VoiceSelect=25-I000,25-I002,25-I004,25-I006
VoiceMove=25-I012,25-I014,25-I016,25-I018,25-I022
VoiceAttack=25-I014,25-I022,25-I024,25-I026
VoiceFeedback=
MaxDebris=4
SpeedType=Float
Locomotor={4A582741-9839-11d1-B709-00A024DDAFD1}
MovementZone=Destroyer
VeteranAbilities=STRONGER,FASTER,SELF_HEAL
EliteAbilities=FIREPOWER,SIGHT,RADAR_INVISIBLE
ThreatPosed=55   ; This value MUST be 0 for all building addons
DamageParticleSystems=SparkSys,SmallGreySSys
Weight=1 ;Sub should not break ice
AccelerationFactor=0.01
ZFudgeColumn=8
ZFudgeTunnel=13
Turret=no
;MovementRestrictedTo=Water ;Sub can go under ice
Cloakable=yes
CloakingSpeed=10
GuardRange=40
Elite=SubICBME ;Elite MIRV
TiltsWhenCrushes=false
TypeImmune=yes

;Sub missile MIRV
[SubICBME]
Damage=1
ROF=600
Range=50
Projectile=MIRV
Speed=12
Warhead=SuperPuls3T
Report=ICBM1
Supress=yes
MinimumRange=10
IonSensitive=no
Burst=4
BurstDelay0=80
BurstDelay1=80
BurstDelay2=80
BurstDelay3=80

;MIRV 2nd stage
[MIRVS2]
Damage=700
ROF=1
Range=18
Projectile=HeatSeeker
Speed=50
Warhead=SuperPuls3
Supress=yes
Report=MISL1

;Sub WH w/ mushroom cloud
[SuperPuls3]
Spread=512
Verses=500%,350%,200%,100%,75%
InfDeath=5
ProneDamage=350%
AnimList=NUKEEXP
Deform=100%
DeformThreshhold=200
Sparky=yes
Bright=yes
Tiberium=yes
Wall=yes
Wood=yes
Rocker=yes
Fire=yes
Conventional=no

;Sub ICBM Targeting warhead
[SuperPuls3T]
Spread=512
Verses=1000%,700%,400%,200%,150%
InfDeath=5
ProneDamage=350%
AnimList=NUKEEXP
Deform=100%
DeformThreshhold=200
Sparky=yes
Bright=yes
Tiberium=yes
Wall=yes
Wood=yes
Rocker=yes
Fire=yes
Conventional=no


As for the shp sub thing when I tell it to move north it shows the sub spinning around and doesnt show any image when told to move any other direction. Would assume it thinks that there are walkframes and I should therefore copy/paste the frames to stop this?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With MinimumRange you tell primary that it can't shoot at anything closer than 18 cells. So it's logical it is forced to use Secondary instead.

Check out the [REAPER] and its art.ini keys
StartStandFrame=0
StandingFrames=1
StartWalkFrame=8
WalkFrames=12
FiringFrames=0
use and adjust them accordingly
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Potato_Doggo
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 02 Nov 2019

PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would assume this means I would have to give up the MinumumRange? And the sub still blows up another sub if I forcefire at a nearby cell. I will fiddle with those art.ini keys later.
EDIT : the sub looks the wrong way when moving and is invisible while moving in some directions but I assume that I just need to do some more key fiddling. On a side note, for some reason I can't get HarvesterDumpRate working.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

compare it with an original SHP unit and its art.ini keys

https://www.modenc.renegadeprojects.com/HarvesterDumpRate
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Potato_Doggo
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 02 Nov 2019

PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am aware of that. However, I have it set to 0 ATM but it still takes at least 20 seconds to empty the harvester. I'm using Rampa's TS Client for this and have the key under the production and income section of Rules.ini's [General] section, which from what I hear is the proper place for it.
Code:

; income and production
;BailCount=28            ; number of 'bails' carried by a harvester
BuildSpeed=.8           ; general build speed [time (in minutes) to produce a 1000 credit cost item]
BuildupTime=.06         ; average minutes that building build-up animation runs
GrowthRate=5            ; minutes between ore (Tiberium) growth
TiberiumGrows=yes       ; Does ore grow denser over time?
TiberiumSpreads=yes     ; Does ore spread into adjacent areas?
SeparateAircraft=yes    ; Is first helicopter to be purchased separately from helipad?
SurvivorRate=.5         ; fraction of building cost to be converted to survivors when sold
SurvivorDivisor=90      ; the divisor into the survivor rate value to determine the number of survivors
PlacementDelay=.05      ; delay before retrying produced object deploy if temporary blockage detected
WeedCapacity=50         ; Amount of weed that needs to be harvested by a house in order to build the chem missile
HarvesterDumpRate=0
HarvesterLoadRate=1

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