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Red Alert 2: Valiant Hearts replaces Attacque Supérior
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject:  Red Alert 2: Valiant Hearts replaces Attacque Supérior
Subject description: When a valiant heart is a superior attack than a project of an unfeasible magnitude!
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Graion Dilach has recently announced that he will no longer work on Attacque Supérior (originally Yuri's Revenge mod and then OpenRA). He has changed his directives to work on something more feasible: a new project called RA2: Valiant Hearts. It is also a modification for OpenRA and it will extend OpenRA's features to cover the needs of Red Alert 2 like mods for the engine. However, unlike Attacque Supérior, it will have only Allies and Soviets and no sub-factions. Here's Graion's words explaining the situation and a video with a teaser of the project:

Quote:
It's been a while since there has been any update here.

Where to start…

Well, let’s face the truth. Attacque Supérior was a beast of a project. It was unexpectable from the start to get 6 or so factions running. While the goal was mostly reached by 2014 (depending whom you ask), it was mostly done via reusing the same gimmicks and basically cloning units left and right to counterparts at different sides.

The uniqueness was simply lost in the armada of stuff, and instead of factions standing out, there were only individual units which either ended up at the same faction, either not.

While the jump to OpenRA from Ares helped to change a lot on this setup with faction gimmicks and similar aspects, it literally pushed back progression beyond limits the project could not recover from the most part. Attacque Supérior already had artwork issues and the lack of artist manpower of it was not resolved with the engine update, especially considering I ended up getting more and more involved in coding OpenRA itself/putting more emphasis on the features I coded for it instead of picking up the necessary skills at the art department to have it finished.




Remember these times? They never came back ultimately.






Over time, Attacque Supérior on OpenRA became nothing more, but an excuse for me to maintain additional features upon OpenRA itself, knowing these features have little to none chance of getting merged into upstream directly as time passed by. The ability to have these features around proved influential for an entire modding subscene of OpenRA’s however, as they became the basis of spearheading projects Crystallized Doom and Shattered Paradise, even founding their way to Romanov’s Vengeance.

Basically, the mod’s own progression got sidetracked for the engine progression and my realization of this in the first half of 2019 was the final nail of the coffin. There’s no point at keeping up the hopes that AS would ever get done considering there were constant moving goalposts in the entire project’s lifetime.

With all the above, it’s about time to call AS as a mod dead with the name Attacque Supérior reinterpreted to mean this engine project alone.

There’s also an urge of me to getting retired from modding. While it has it’s merits, it took more of my time than what it gave back to me in return. However, there were personal reasons back then which started the project back in 2010… and those particular reasons prevent me to leave the scene without having something done. Since AS-as-an-engine can never be called finished and there should be a proper project aimed to atleast showcase it’s depths… I took another choice.

Let me present to you... Valiant Hearts.

Inspired by the relative simplicity of Red-Resurrection and VS_INI, Valiant Hearts is a limited-to Allied-vs-Soviets project, even lacking countries/subfactions for the time (and I don’t have any active plan to introduce them either). Limiting the scope allows the units to become more different themselves and allows me to utilize the tricks I picked up during AS-as-a-mod, transferring the features which made AS unique back then, like resource spawner meteor storms and rebuildable tech buildings.

With this announcement, VH development has been moved out to the open, with everything visible at Github.com, including public devtest builds powered by OpenRA’s ModSDK and Travis-CI. Documentation and branding is lacking for the time being, but will be resolved with time. Note that Valiant Hearts utilizes the new, in-testing OpenRA OpenGL 3.0 backend and limited-to-OpenGL 2.1-capable hardware won’t be able to run it.

Regarding the status of Valiant Hearts though – if a picture is worth a thousand words, than a video will tell everything about it what I could.











Feel free sharing your thoughts/getting involved in the further development on Discord at Discord.gg.

Unlike AS, Valiant Hearts isn't and never intends to be a magnum opus, moreso aim to be a respectful farewell to the community. Only time will tell how well it performs in that regard. There are still things I still haven't decided on, like if it needs it's own ModDB page and similar aspects. We'll see.

Graion out.


Key Words: #News #OpenRA #RA2ValiantHearts 

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand, he has a working mod that he could just cut factions from and call it a day, but instead he puts in work to make another...
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MadHQ
Commander


Joined: 07 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are all those vehicles shps? Has vxls still not been implemented in openRA?
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OpenRA has implemented voxels. However, at the moment, they seem to be much more heavy for the game, in computational terms, than SHPs.

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MadHQ wrote:
Are all those vehicles shps? Has vxls still not been implemented in openRA?

From what I heard, on the contrary; ORA's VXL rendering is just so superior that it looks like high quality SHPs when in reality it's just the same old, low-ish quality VXLs we've had for two decades now.
Tho not sure about Graion's mod, if it uses VXLs or SHPs for tanks, but there have been several videos already showcasing how ORA renders the VXLs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlEpjb236_w&index=229&list=LLRJ32BRTY8UPF49Ilq3rNDw
Just search YT for OpenRA Red Alert 2, or Tiberian Sun if you fancy that; you're bound to find something.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
I don't understand, he has a working mod that he could just cut factions from and call it a day, but instead he puts in work to make another...


Except... I don't have a working mod. Well, technically I do, but practically I wouldn't count that one either.
AS-on-Ares worked because by 2014/2015 it got to the final playtesting phase (sans artwork, because artwork was a mess).
AS-on-OpenRA was an unplayable mess where I messed up my own AS-on-Ares paradigms with the stat conversions and ended up breaking everything. The error I made back in 2015 during the Ares->OpenRA jump was that I did not use the opportunity to reconsider what worked in the faction design and what didn't.

Both AS-on-Ares and AS-on-OpenRA were full of unit clones with only stat differences. That won't do - OpenRA already has Romanov's Vengeance for a "plain" mod. Logics like "Tier Resitance" where tier level worked as rock-paper-scissors was arbitrary and I should have just simply stop there and should have went back to the drawing board. And yes, I did this nonsense.

For the record, AS-as-a-Whiteboy's Rules-styled-ADD-EVERYTHING mod took 2 years.
AS-as-the-supersaturated-multifactioned-on-Ares took 3.
AS-as-the-supersaturated-multifactioned-on-OpenRA took 4 and couldn't even reach either of the former during that time.
Valiant Hearts took half a year so far (starting it on April 20th this year, according to my git history) and it's already as close to call it playable as the first two iterations of this list. Simply because I actually used the opportunity to rethink what worked and what didn't. I trimmed out everything now to have something functional. If this works, I might maintain it for a longer while, but now I want to get this limited scope getting finished.

The option of getting back to Ares technically exists, but that would have led me to drop the engine research I made in the last 4 years which revitalized the OpenRA modding community. It would have been very awkward to me to drop my own coding, considering that I was always better at that compared to art.

TL;DR: You would have been right in 2015 when I made the previous jump, but you're wrong today.

MadHQ wrote:
Are all those vehicles shps? Has vxls still not been implemented in openRA?

Banshee wrote:
OpenRA has implemented voxels. However, at the moment, they seem to be much more heavy for the game, in computational terms, than SHPs.


These are voxels. OpenRA lacks tilting logic for voxels on slopes at the moment which might cause the confusion. The voxel performance gained a massive improvement last year and I expect the minimum requirements being bumped to a GPU with OpenGL 3.0 capabilities eroding any voxel rendering slowdown issues ultimately.

Note that most of them are actually retextures/remakes and not the Westwood originals - OpenRA renderer isn't as lenient to the quality issues most WW voxels have (like how the intentionally-wrong-normals on the Prism Tank's refraction breaks it to be rendered as fully black or the black hole syndrome on the V3) and I am not tolerating that either (these aforementioned two units will receive a retexture in January I think).

NB: Ignore my numbers on the screen regarding GPU performance during the start, I have VSync enabled within the GPU driver and that pads out the rendering. The real values which rendering takes start when the framecount starts dropping below 60. For the reference, the video was recorded on an i5-2500/8 GB RAM/GTX 750 Ti PC with the game running on the Ludicrous speed, which would be 60 game FPS in theory. The actual Normal speed is 25 game FPS and as you can see, the game fares a lot better than that for the most part.
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MasterHaosis
Commander


Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach, oh, I am sad to hear that you are retiring.
But yeah, you have other stuff to do in life, more important.
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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
i5-2500/8 GB RAM/GTX 750 Ti PC

Someone can re-record that footage for you; personally I've got an i7 8th gen. Not sure how much improvement there would be, but I doubt it'd be any worse.

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Except... I don't have a working mod. Well, technically I do, but practically I wouldn't count that one either.
AS-on-Ares worked because by 2014/2015 it got to the final playtesting phase (sans artwork, because artwork was a mess).
AS-on-OpenRA was an unplayable mess where I messed up my own AS-on-Ares paradigms with the stat conversions and ended up breaking everything. The error I made back in 2015 during the Ares->OpenRA jump was that I did not use the opportunity to reconsider what worked in the faction design and what didn't.

...

The option of getting back to Ares technically exists, but that would have led me to drop the engine research I made in the last 4 years which revitalized the OpenRA modding community. It would have been very awkward to me to drop my own coding, considering that I was always better at that compared to art.

That's not terribly relevant to what I asked, because fundamentally you made the choice to clone units (what I might call placeholders) to fill out superfluous factions. You obviously didn't have enough ideas for units if you had to clone them, which means you didn't have enough ideas for whole factions to exist.

You could have backed off whatever vague wishful thinking plans you had,  focused on getting a few core factions perfectly balanced, fleshed out, and for lack of a better term completed. You could then mull over your other unit ideas in a test faction that didn't even need a full roster. A lot of the TS universe mods toy with minimalist Cabal and Forgotten factions, and not always playable, that was a route you could have taken until it was ready.

I can't tell you how many dozen units I've tried and cut from my mod, but adding units has always been a slow process, only once there was enough playtesting to understand how everything changes (if anything) in balance could a counter unit be given to an enemy. This is how I ended up with smart mines for Korea instead of their own mini-subs, and how Libya ended up with anti-naval helicopters instead of a new warship.

Likewise, if you had a surplus of units with cool tech, they'd always work as stolen-tech or neutral-tech unlocked units, there's no real limit there, and canonically unimportant for tech type or unit style.

You made a potpourri of stuff, but you didn't have to use them.
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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure how it's helpful to talk about how he could've made a mod he's no longer developing and has infact changed his approach anyway.
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