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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
SpecialPower to increase production speed?
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rey
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 15 Jul 2019

PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:36 pm    Post subject:  SpecialPower to increase production speed?
Subject description: possible?
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Mental Omega has ability to switch off all factories for 1 minute and get money. algorithm is not hard to understand: hunterseaker mechanic + emp on buildings + attach visual effect.
that made me wonder if it's possible to create SpecialPower that increases production of factories/barracks for some time via Ares mechanics?

hope smb experienced can give me some hints, if there are any, 'cause i found no obvious way.

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Virgil
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 22 Jul 2018

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iirc the MO superweapon is just a EMPulse Cannon that fires on firer itself and get all factory disabled (EMPed), no hunter-seeker is needed, so it has nothing to do with the production speed.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Production speed increases with the number of factories present.
Even in TS without Ares you could do something like this, by using the HunterSeeker to auto-deploy into a dummy structure.
The dummy structure being a certain Factory type and having a dummy ActiveAnim which kills the building after a certain duration.
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rey
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 15 Jul 2019

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Production speed increases with the number of factories present.
Even in TS without Ares you could do something like this, by using the HunterSeeker to auto-deploy into a dummy structure.
The dummy structure being a certain Factory type and having a dummy ActiveAnim which kills the building after a certain duration.
i was thinking about this as only variant i could imagine, but thought maybe there is other way.
main problem for me - i don't know how to create invisible-dummy structure that doesn't take place. all "examples" i could find in mods are about spawning some actual units. can you advice me some tutor or example for research?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know any tutorial for this.
I'm also not that familiar with the more advanced modding possibilities in RA/YR with Ares.
In TS i would make the HunterSeeker a normal vehicle with
Turret=yes
ROT=100
DeploysInto=DUMMYBUILDING
Primary=DeployWeapon
DeployToFire=yes

[DeployWeapon]
Range=255  ;to auto-attack any target on the map
ROF=1
Damage=1
Projectile=Invisible

[DUMMYBUILDING]
Factory=
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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recommend having the HS deploy like LKO suggested, but with a 0x0 foundation for the building.

Not sure how that'd impact the building's anims and the anims then damaging and destroying the "fake" building.

Last edited by TAK02 on Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Starkku
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
I recommend having the HS deploy like LKO suggested, but with a 0x0 foundation for the building.

Not sure how that'd impact the building's anims and the anims then damaging and destroying the "fake" building.


You wouldn't be able to use that approach to destroying it if you use 0x0 footprint as those buildings cannot receive damage from warheads like usual, likely a consequence of how damage from warheads is applied on buildings based on CellSpread and Foundation. Only workable method of erasing 0x0 dummy buildings like this is having them fire off a weapon with Suicide=yes.

Making dummy building a factory isn't gonna come without problems either. Particularly with VehicleType (and maybe InfantryType but I can't recall for certain at the moment of typing) factories, units can be kicked out from non-primary building factories if the primary one is busy and you are constructing units with fast building speed (a problem that is only exacerbated by owning multiple factories of same type). This would include these 'dummy factories'.

On overall I would say this idea isn't very feasible currently. Affecting cost on other hand would be, just basically combining this temporary dummy building logic with Industrial Plant, but that wouldn't affect build speed at all.
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rey
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 15 Jul 2019

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starkku wrote:
You wouldn't be able to use that approach to destroying it if you use 0x0 footprint as those buildings cannot receive damage from warheads like usual, likely a consequence of how damage from warheads is applied on buildings based on CellSpread and Foundation. Only workable method of erasing 0x0 dummy buildings like this is having them fire off a weapon with Suicide=yes.
i'm quite curious where such invisible 0x0 building will appear? lets say it's spawned via special power, so it's ought to appear close to building that has this SP as it's superweapon?

Starkku wrote:
Making dummy building a factory isn't gonna come without problems either. Particularly with VehicleType (and maybe InfantryType but I can't recall for certain at the moment of typing) factories, units can be kicked out from non-primary building factories if the primary one is busy and you are constructing units with fast building speed (a problem that is only exacerbated by owning multiple factories of same type). This would include these 'dummy factories'.
was thinking about that too. that's why asked if there is some other, non-extra-factory way.)
the workaround could be setting production multiplier to be not more than minimum number of factories can handle, but that's still a handicap and workaround.

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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another workaround would be giving BuildLimit=1 to factories, using a one-time use Unit Delivery SW to deliver a 1x1 factory structure next to said factory (thus giving you 2 factories of the same type activating the global), and changing the global factory boost to accomodate. The reason it should be 1x1 is to both have it able to be destroyed and for it to function properly as a factory as I believe the game won't let units exit from 0x0 factories iirc (or I could have this backwards and 1x1 doesn't work). Bonus points for making it look like it fits of course.

EDIT: Obviously this doesn't come without the drawback of players only being able to make a factory if the previous one is destroyed.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rey wrote:
Starkku wrote:
Making dummy building a factory isn't gonna come without problems either. Particularly with VehicleType (and maybe InfantryType but I can't recall for certain at the moment of typing) factories, units can be kicked out from non-primary building factories if the primary one is busy and you are constructing units with fast building speed (a problem that is only exacerbated by owning multiple factories of same type). This would include these 'dummy factories'.
was thinking about that too. that's why asked if there is some other, non-extra-factory way.)
the workaround could be setting production multiplier to be not more than minimum number of factories can handle, but that's still a handicap and workaround.

That is easily preventable by making the dummy factory have Owner=Neutral.
This way only vehicles with Owner=Neutral are able to leave that factory, which the player doesn't have/build.
The dummy unit deploying into the factory doesn't care about the factory owner and deploys anyway.

it's like the old alternate Naval yard workaround for TS.

if you then got a unit build quicker than the present factories can kick them out, the unit gets 100% refunded instead of kicked out from the dummy building.
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rey
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 15 Jul 2019

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
That is easily preventable by making the dummy factory have Owner=Neutral.
This way only vehicles with Owner=Neutral are able to leave that factory, which the player doesn't have/build.
The dummy unit deploying into the factory doesn't care about the factory owner and deploys anyway.
hmm.. that's really interesting information!
so in example with 2 normal factories and 1 modified-factory, with quite same code but Owner=Neutral(not even dummy, proper building) = this 1 will add to global production speed, but will not try to let exit any unit of player, as they aren't neutral, right?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

correct,
it's the same reason why you can't get soviet vehicles out of an Allies warfactory.
If you have 100 Allies factories and only 1 soviet warfactory, you can produce Apocs in no time, but are limited by the speed, that single factory kicks them out.
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silverwind
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
correct,
it's the same reason why you can't get soviet vehicles out of an Allies warfactory.
If you have 100 Allies factories and only 1 soviet warfactory, you can produce Apocs in no time, but are limited by the speed, that single factory kicks them out.


Ah, so THAT's why that happened. I remember being baffled by this decades ago when I first started playing RA2. You learn something new everyday.

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just set the Allied WF as primary, that'll fix it Smile
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mevitar
Missile Trooper


Joined: 31 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luckily Ares has BuiltAt= and Factory.ExplicitOnly=yes, so no need for Owner= workarounds.

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