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C&C: DFR
Moderators: Generals Moderators, Global Moderators, OpenRA Moderators, Red Alert 2 Moderators, Tiberian Sun Moderators
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DaubertMotion
Cyborg Engineer


Joined: 17 Dec 2015

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:57 pm    Post subject:  C&C: DFR Reply with quote

I'm working on a private mod with the aim of adding some variety to YR's skirmish games.  Way back when I used to mod YR and Generals, but coming back to it after all these years YR has more charm, and with Ares out there are so many possibilities.  I started by adding additional countries since Ares lets you have 16 playable countries (or is it 32, but only 16 have taunts? Its unclear what bugs I might encounter by adding more countries).  I'll be working on AI next.  I'm not going to bore you with lists of units, invented lore, or screenshots of a mod filled with public assets.  Instead, I'd rather just discuss superimposing today's global political climate and the cold war of the last century onto the fictional universe we all know and love - Red Alert.  

The Soviet Union dissolved in 1991.  The following year Francis Fukuyara, a key contributor to the Reagan Doctrine, published a book called "The End of History and the Last Man" where he proposed that we have reached the "end of history", that is: "the end-point of mankind's ideological evolution and the universalization of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government."  As we have seen over the past 28 years, Fukuyara could not have been more wrong.  Since 9/11, there has been constant war in the middle east (western occupation, civil wars, ISIL), a resurgence of Russian aggression (invasion of Crimea/War with Ukraine), China has flexed its muscles and is playing tug of war with the US, North Korea has built the bomb, Iran and the US are trading blows, and there is a wave of dictator-like strong men rising to power across the globe.  Far from the "end of history" where everyone lives happily ever after in a free trade loving liberal democracy, tensions are high, another war seems imminent, and there is a new struggle between authoritarianism, theocracy, and democracy.

The Cold War saw a global standoff between East and West, and included many important players, some of which were hosts to open conflict (Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc).  From essentially 1945 to the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, the Doomsday clock was mere minutes to midnight with the threat of mutually assured destruction.  Red Alert 2 gave us a sci-fi re-imagining of what would happen if this war turned hot, complete with weather control devices, mind control, tesla towers, and attack squids.  They threw in the monkey wrench of war world 2 never happened, so that does change the landscape in some ways (yet not the maps in loading screens).

So my prompt for open discussion is what countries should be playable in a mod that is addressing the above.  We have the Cold War with frames everything in East vs. West, Communism vs Democracy, Russia vs USA.  We have today's global landscape where things aren't so simple (and they really never were).  

I'll start with the Allies - here's a roundup of the five that were included in RA2 with one more that I think is a must include.  Any thoughts of other countries which are musts for the allies?  

America - an original faction and obviously a central character.  Today, America is more isolationist that perhaps any time since the Great Depression.  Would America be a central figure of the Allies, or perhaps aligned but no longer a leader?

Great Britain - an original faction and of huge historical importance.  However, Britain's role has diminished over time as she surrender her empire.  Today Britain is in the midst of "Brexit"

France - an original faction and like Britain, has great historical importance as one of the main fronts of WW2.  France was also involved in the Vietnam war of the Cold War and today is one of the leaders of the European Union.  Is France now the leader of the European Allies?

Germany - Again, an original faction.  While entirely with the Allies in the RA2 univers, Germany was split during the cold war.  Today, Germany is a leader in the EU, and one of its most productive members.

(South) Korea - An original faction.  I was never a huge fan of how they combined North and South Korea into one country in RA2.  There's the Pacific War which is alluded to but never explained, so what happened is left to conjecture.  In my mod I would like to see South Korea separate from North Korea, being a close ally to the USA as a result of America's stepping in during the Korean War.

Turkey - Turkey was very important during the Cold War - It controls the Bosporus Strait protecting the Mediterranean from the Black Sea, and was home to many US missile silos pointed at the USSR.  Even historically, the Turks have a long history of war with the Russians.  Today, Turkey has one of the largest armies in Europe, but has an authoritarian streak and is even threatening the west that it will have closer relations with Russia.  Turkey wants to invade Syria and fight the Kurds there.  I think it would be remiss to not include Turkey.  The Ottoman history of using large cannons to attack Constantinople would also be a nice basis for a unique unit of a field artillery (Howitzer?).

Italy, Greece, Spain - Larger European countries, but with the limit of 16, I'm not sure they have priority to make the cut.  Canada and Australia - necessary or too much overlap with the US/Britain.  Should there be more South/Central American Representation?  Japan for most Asian rep? Would traditionally non-aligned countries (India, South Africa, etc) be more inclined to join the Allies if the war?  Any thoughts?

Yuri - I never liked that Yuri was depicted as controlling only an island in Skirmish mode despite the campaign showing he controlled large areas of territory.  Since during the cold war there were many countries that were clearly not on one side or the other, I would like to have Egypt be a "Yuri Country."  Egypt has a large population, is strategically located, and has had relations wax and wane with both east and west.

Soviets - I'll expand later but for the moment I'm thinking Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, and China.

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this is going to be private, why would anyone put in effort to help flesh out your ideas?

This is akin to someone saying they want to invent a new product, and asking all their acquaintances for ideas.
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DaubertMotion
Cyborg Engineer


Joined: 17 Dec 2015

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, its a private mod forum, so people know when they click on this thread its for a private mod.  If you want to have an existential discussion on why a private mod forum exists, I guess we can have that.  People put all sorts of effort into meaningless conversations on the  internet.  I just want to have a discussion about which countries people think should "make the cut" when its limited to 16.

Libya has like six million people, I don't know why it was included as a country in RA2 when there are so many others to choose from with more Cold War relevance.  Egypt is next store with 100 million.  Vietnam has about 100 million people, and a major component of the Cold War, but did not appear in the game.  Today it might make sense to include Libya because of its Civil War and the presence of ISIL, but Syria probably makes more sense.  Somalia probably would have been a better choice to represent communist aligned Africa.

Ultimately, the difference between a private mod and a public one is a properly documented credits.txt.  If for whatever reason people are interested, then sure, I could take this further.  I just miss this community and wanted to get back into it with a little modding and discussion here and there.

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