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Warcraft: Reforged released as worst Blizzard's game ever
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MasterHaosis
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Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:07 pm    Post subject:  Warcraft: Reforged released as worst Blizzard's game ever
Subject description: Worst start
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Yeah.I was optimistic. I cannot even post many proofs (there are hundreads) how people are disappinted and many refunded game prior to release.
Actually here if you can see in their official forums
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/warcraft3/c/general-discussion/5
People (read CUSTOMERS) made tons and tons of angry posts and asked for refund.
Here are bugs
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/warcraft3/c/bug-report/9
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/warcraft3/c/technical-support/8

People you wont believe me, just read! vast majority complains either disconnects, instant defeat in campaigns, black screens all time and all craps in OFFICIAL RELEASE!
They removed classics, they forced people download 30GBs Reforged, but who want to play Reforged need to pay 30$ or 40$ depends of pack.

And now they prevented people to even refund game




Here it is not even working! I can play as classic, cannot play with Reforged graphics (they acepted preorder al ltime but released specifications few days before release). So, like I do not have it at all.
When I complained many times over they banned me for one month!
They are insane!
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly?

It still looks better than C&CR. That's also destined to be a similar level of trainwreck noone's willing to acknowledge at the moment - at least Blizzard announced dropping some ideas last year already.

The main issue here was that the "fandom" demanded to revert from the Blizzcon 2018 UI and cutscenes/minor retcons/new voiceovers plan with "how dare you touch the story of the original". We got what remained after it.

The only glaring issues I see are the competitive fallout and the fucked-up way to play a skirmish, the lack of a custom campaign button, the removal of the Orc Marine model (apparently this is because Games Workshop threatened to sue, oh yeah), the male death knight model issue and the forced rename of Grom Hellscream to Grommash.

Even if the backlash post-Blizzcon2018 was only useful for an excuse to justify the state of the game now, it came handy for dropping ideas on the floor and the fact that the fandom takes a double standard with ignoring their own behavior on that one now is ludicrous with everyone bringing that up on the official forums is an acceptable target for ad hominems.

I'll be keeping it. Even if it lacks the polish it desperately needs in some fronts, it's mostly what I expected when I preordered 3 days ago (yes, i waited with the preorder until they revealed the system requirements, because I had to refund Detroit Become Human for this reason and I didn't wanted to repeat that story). And I can't believe that this level of feedback will end up ignored anyway, so I do expect a good portion of the issues will get fixed in time.
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MasterHaosis
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Joined: 01 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach! Thank you sir for commenting.
I am really glad to see you!

But sir, with all due respect, I have little more ,,info" and ,,access to informations" than anyone else here. Simple because I am from hiveworkshop, biggest site for warcraft resources (and modding/coding). That site is connected to Blizzard, members from here go there to work on various projects. Blizzard even officially in patch notes thanked to few of our members for helping them fixing stuff in patch.
I was map moderator at that place before. My job was testing maps. And chat. Oh, I made tons of models. So, aside from YR, I was more fan of Wc3 too. We regularly (and often before others) get updates. Even our members interviewed their developers before.
If you doubt at anything what I wrote here, I can prove you!

Now, since obviosly I got more informations and what was going on ,,behind curtain", let me tell you al this:
At their Blizzcon, they promised lot of stuff. Meanwhile 4 hours of new videos, and many stuff. That did not happen.
Graion as you pointed out, many of ,,purists" complained, which is true. But they are not their main target. They used purists as shield.
What you do not know is that (I forgot his name and I am tired and lazy now to search for name) their lead developer, man in charge left company in September/October. Many people left.
They did not communicate with anyone and game was supposed and promoted to release before or on 31. December! They became active in DECEMBER TWO THREE WEEKS BEFORE RELEASE.
Believe or not. They did not say single shit or single patch since Blizzcon FOR ALMOST YEAR! And in that time man left company.
Oh you want proof about official forums? I was there until yesterday. See this

COMMUNITY MANAGER WITH 4 POSTS DAY BEFORE RELEASE !!! Can you believe it?
Yeah. No news, nothing there! Just some patching, and here and there their developers collected informations and bugs.
I reported bugs too. I was everywhere regarding this.
I told you, they were silent, not taking feedback from community, if all. They had internal problems that lead some people left company, and they tried to put this on ,,purists", minority which is not their target audiance.
Oh see this


Graion you are not perhaps  registered in forums, if you wish I can screenshot you bug reports! Black screen, disconnects, instant defeat and NO CUSTOM CAMPAIGN which was present in classic! Tons and tons of reports worldwide!
This game is not ready.
Also, many more people rebelled meanwhile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gui2AqOfVwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHo_D8LYhq8
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the good aspects of forums is that you can read them without being logged in. I am fully aware of how the game is dragged down on Metacritic, losing a a decimal in an hour or two, the feedback on /r/WC3 and /r/Warcraft3 and following the official forums as well.

I get what you mean even when you're wrong - it wasn't the lead dev who quitted, but the lead designer. There was also a comment on one of the reddits I mentioned where a dev who quitted on his own mentioned that things only started to stabilize around now after that 800 people layoff they did in the non-development departments early last year.

I am not claiming it's perfect and I acknowledge it has issues. Still, I still see way more potential in it than what C&CR showcased so far. I did give a thought of refunding it during the entire yesterday at work just alone of all the flak it's getting, but I still think it can be salvaged.

Even if it can't, I can still imagine doing a mapmod or two for myself where I import some campaign heroes into the map to build and play. I really loved how some beta players shown that most campaign units/heroes received custom models instead of the legacy texture edits and this was what sold the game for me anyway (how I explained it at work: UTHER'S NO LONGER A LAME PALADIN WITH SO SUBTLE TEXTURE EDITS YOU NEED MAGNIFYING GLASSES TO FIND THEM! THEY GAVE THE MAN JUSTICE!). Lemon Sky's work worths all the praise it can get - it is Blizzard's mismanagement which is ruining the immersion.
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This refund story and people getting banned for complaining or providing information about it is indeed outraging. I was genuinely interested on buying the game (I do have the original Warcraft 3 here), but now I'll wait somethings to settle down before thinking about buying it or not. I think I do have the requisites (unless they are very strict about the latest Windows 10 version here, since I'm blocking Windows updates on all my machines).


What is also very outraging for me, as a modder, is that everything you created on World Editor belongs to them and not to you. This is a complete absurd! Not just for taking your ownership of your sacrified work with no compensation, but also by doing the atrocity of associating fan created work with the developper itself.

Last edited by Banshee on Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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MasterHaosis
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Joined: 01 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach, oh sorry, yes! Lead designed quit.
Hey, what about metacritic, what does it mean to Blizzard? How this can affect them?

Banshee, I think I know why they did this to World Editor, maps and copyright! Remember Dota and few others? They used Wc3 as base and grow popularity on their own (promoting Blizzard meanwhile of course), but later separated and created their own engines!
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, Warcraft 3 was used to prototype (and advertise) Defense of the ancients, which was later used as design/inspiration for League of Legends and Dota 2, but both LoL and Dota 2 uses its own engine, therefore, it doesn't abide by the awful end user agreement from the World Editor. In short, it is an atrocity that won't prevent the 'competition' that they wanted to prevent.

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m7
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Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Location: The Fang

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
What is also very outraging for me, as a modder, is that everything you created on WorldBuilder belongs to them and not to you. This is a complete absurd! Not just for taking your ownership of your sacrified work with no compensation, but also by doing the atrocity of associating fan created work with the developper itself.


And that's due to the loss of the lawsuit against Valve for making DOTA2. "We'll never let another cash cow slip out of our hands again!" they claimed, meanwhile running everyone away from the War3 scene. One could have expected a messy release, but I think this game's re-release is even pretty low for modern Blizzard standards.

There should have been more openness and honesty about what was truly coming in War3: Reforged, and they shouldn't have gutted the original game in the process to force everyone into their ridiculous scheme. Remaster culture is the worst, and I'm ready for this cash-in on nostalgia to finally end.
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know this cutscene?





That's what they did when they've created this new messed up end user license agreement. It looked like just a demo for Reforge, but the guys being purged there are us, end users.

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee, they scrapped that Culling Demo yeah!
Do not forget that they promised and advertised 4 hours of videos!

Also here it is











And here is metacritic score.
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/warcraft-iii-reforged

1/10 HAHAHAHHA!
EDIT:Fixed links
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
What is also very outraging for me, as a modder, is that everything you created on World Editor belongs to them and not to you. This is a complete absurd! Not just for taking your ownership of your sacrified work with no compensation, but also by doing the atrocity of associating fan created work with the developper itself.


Yeah, true this. But honestly, even if that wouldn't be the case, the game would still pass on for modding scenes. Those got Starcraft 2 now for the Blizzard scene and Dota2 also supports modding outside it, so one can move on to something better.

With Reforged, if a modder adds new artwork/texture to the game, he needs to ensure that both Reforged and Classic works properly or even better, ensure that his new artwork fits to both. I don't feel this latter doable at all. This is a huge hit itself for the scene anyway.

Besides, there is still no way to create new voicesets for the ingame units. You are still limited to replace individual lines, you cannot assemble new ones/extend what we have now. Sylvanas's set is still a skeleton.

My first War3 modmap edit was to enable Sylvanas as a fourth human hero on ROC and add the War2 Alleria voiceover to her since that one has move and separate attack responses. I couldn't do that in 2004 without messing up a neutral unit voiceover back then and after a quick check in the World Editor, I can't do that today either. This bugs me the best as a modder.
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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach, haha 0.5/10 rating! it is on metacritics worst rated game in history.
Well this does not show really nothing much, but fact  that this is message from people definitively what they think of game.
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasterHaosis wrote:
Graion Dilach, haha 0.5/10 rating! it is on metacritics worst rated game in history.
Well this does not show really nothing much, but fact  that this is message from people definitively what they think of game.

Where does Fallout 76 stand there?
Or the couple of C&C games that may or may not exist?

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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02, I d onot know but here is link https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc
Perhaps those games are there.
Reforged is called now WARCRAFT:REFUNDED hahaha
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question that remains: why?
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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is called Refunded? Because many many people refunded game. And on release majority asked to refund as well because they saw that game is nothing which as been advertized
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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More butthurt, whiny entitled gamers. Moving on.
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FurryQueen wrote:
More butthurt, whiny entitled gamers. Moving on.

Wouldn't you be angry too if WW or EA or [insert your favorite company/author/whatever] pulled what Blizzard did? I'd like to see your response then.

That said, anyone have any speculation as to what Blizzard was thinking when they made whatever decisions that lead to this?

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were thinking on cash milk and also attempting to get cash from successful custom maps that could be transformed into commercial games.

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FurryQueen
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
Wouldn't you be angry too if WW or EA or [insert your favorite company/author/whatever] pulled what Blizzard did? I'd like to see your response then.

That said, anyone have any speculation as to what Blizzard was thinking when they made whatever decisions that lead to this?

Not particularly. I just wouldn't buy it and would move the fuck on. The overreaction here is probably being overblown. While it's shitty for them to go back on their promises, it's not a crime or "the worst thing ever." There are large contingents of gamers who just like being melodramatic over nothing. The new EULA is terribly shitty but that will backfire. No redone cinematics isn't the big deal the whiners are claiming either. It would be nice, sure, but may have turned out to be more time-consuming than originally planned. Didn't see this much faux outrage during the beta either. The entitlement is strong here.
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Allen
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FurryQueen wrote:

Not particularly. I just wouldn't buy it and would move the fuck on. The overreaction here is probably being overblown. While it's shitty for them to go back on their promises, it's not a crime or "the worst thing ever." There are large contingents of gamers who just like being melodramatic over nothing. The new EULA is terribly shitty but that will backfire. No redone cinematics isn't the big deal the whiners are claiming either. It would be nice, sure, but may have turned out to be more time-consuming than originally planned. Didn't see this much faux outrage during the beta either. The entitlement is strong here.


It maybe a crime in Australia with there Consumer Laws.
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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FurryQueen wrote:
More butthurt, whiny entitled gamers. Moving on.
LOL what. Gamers are entitled to good games. They're the ones paying for it, afterall. Blizzard wouldn't exist without it's audience.
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Virgil
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:

Or the couple of C&C games that may or may not exist?


TD 8.9 (CO 8.5)
RA 8.8 (CS 8.6, AF 8.4)
TS & FS 8.6
RA2 & YR 8.9
TW & KW 8.0
Generals 8.4 (ZH 8.9)
RA3 6.9 (Uprising 6.8 )
Renegade 7.7
TT 2.1

All scores are for PC version.

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Gangster
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote





Can't stop laughting on this

Long story short: Blizzard's auto licening custom maps feature, made them auto own some new questionable IPs
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MasterHaosis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FurryQueen wrote:
The entitlement is strong here.

4 hours of video cinematics is big promise and cut feature! it is like two movies!
Also do not forget that on release, game is still lke patch, not like official release. It got black screens, not functioning for many players, randon disconnections, instant defeat when you play game and all of bugs SINCE DAY 1 BETA CAME. Yes they did that.
Rushed release, using old fans as excuse. And they did take preorders! That did not contain bugs. Preorders worked fine, when need to crab cash. I never heard any bug of it. But product is buggy as hell.
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