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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
Warfactory Foundation
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silverwind
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:36 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

I'm quite curious as to how you managed to pull off the 3x3 war factory.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Foundation=3x3 #Tongue
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silverwind
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Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just like that? I thought war factories needed the 11th cell in the foundation (middle in the fourth row) as the exit point.

Or maybe I'm just remembering issues with custom foundations.

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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 3x3 factory isn't possible in RA2, as you said the the exit path is hardcoded & If you try to use a foundation other then 5x3, units will just spawn next to the building instead of driving out from the center. He is probably using the Chinese version of Ares which has a bunch of extra hacks.
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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mig Eater wrote:
If you try to use a foundation other then 5x3, units will just spawn next to the building instead of driving out from the center.

same problem with 4x3?

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m7
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Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Location: The Fang

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A 3x3 factory isn't possible in RA2, as you said the the exit path is hardcoded & If you try to use a foundation other then 5x3, units will just spawn next to the building instead of driving out from the center.


I had 3x3 factories work just fine when I split jumpjets into their own war factory in Ares. They'd rise from the center cell of the 3x3 foundation, then head towards the southeast as they exit the building like in the above screenshot.
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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCoder @ RenProj, 2009 wrote:
Update regarding War Factories: Using different exit paths than the existing one for normal vehicles is impossible for now, and will stay that way until someone smarter than me can read the locomotor code and extend it. Hover vehicles and jumpjets have their own exit paths which can be made changeable, but I don't think it's worth fixing without ordinary vehicle support. So, using custom foundations on War Factories is not supported.

Details: When exiting War Factories, objects get spawned in the ExitCoord= cell of the factory.
If the object uses Teleport or Tunnel Locomotors, it gets imbued with the Drive Locomotor and instructed to Force_Track(66) and go to the earlier mentioned Outline.10 cell.
If the object uses the Drive Locomotor, it also gets instructed to Force_Track(66) and go to Outline.10.
Otherwise, the object is told to go to cell (4, 1) relative to the factory's top corner cell.

Problem is, Force_Track() is an instruction for it to pick one of the predefined behaviours. In this case, track 66 is "four cells down that way\", and it calculates where it should start from based on the wanted exit position. Which means that, for example, if I pick a 3x5 foundation to mirror the current 5x3, and set an arbitrary ExitCoord=, this will happen:
1. All units spawn here.
2. Teleport, Tunnel or Drive Locomotor -equipped units will warp to here...
3. ... and drive out to here ignoring any obstructions in the way.
4. Whereas all other units will use their normal Locomotor from (1) to arrive here.


Source of quote: https://forums.renegadeprojects.com/showthread.php?tid=1378&pid=14772#pid14772
The image is a recreation, since the original was lost in time. The blue cell is used as Outline10.

TL;DR: 4x3 is completely possible without major art issues via customfoundationing to ensure Outline.10 ends up at the exit position. My The_I_Man based prerelease Allied WarFactory in AS-Ares relied on this for years. I suspect this 3x3 building is done the same way, forcing Outline10 to be the (4,1) cell, but I don't know for certain. The empty row skipped between the factory and the exit cell implies so.

All the other foundations will only work flawlessly for certain locomotors.


dcodercffactoriesrecreation.png
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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it's possible and it should be mentioned in the documentation.
The only problem is that the unit must move a fixed distant in order to exit so you need the length longer than 3.
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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the game care in what order I have the Outlines?

Like:

Outline9=3,0 (or something)
Outline10=4,1
Outline11=3,1

Or:

Outline01=3,0
Outline10=4,1
Outline02=3,1

Basically, how much freedom do we have to set up Outline cells before the game bugs out?
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silverwind
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
DCoder @ RenProj, 2009 wrote:
Update regarding War Factories: Using different exit paths than the existing one for normal vehicles is impossible for now, and will stay that way until someone smarter than me can read the locomotor code and extend it. Hover vehicles and jumpjets have their own exit paths which can be made changeable, but I don't think it's worth fixing without ordinary vehicle support. So, using custom foundations on War Factories is not supported.

Details: When exiting War Factories, objects get spawned in the ExitCoord= cell of the factory.
If the object uses Teleport or Tunnel Locomotors, it gets imbued with the Drive Locomotor and instructed to Force_Track(66) and go to the earlier mentioned Outline.10 cell.
If the object uses the Drive Locomotor, it also gets instructed to Force_Track(66) and go to Outline.10.
Otherwise, the object is told to go to cell (4, 1) relative to the factory's top corner cell.

Problem is, Force_Track() is an instruction for it to pick one of the predefined behaviours. In this case, track 66 is "four cells down that way\", and it calculates where it should start from based on the wanted exit position. Which means that, for example, if I pick a 3x5 foundation to mirror the current 5x3, and set an arbitrary ExitCoord=, this will happen:
1. All units spawn here.
2. Teleport, Tunnel or Drive Locomotor -equipped units will warp to here...
3. ... and drive out to here ignoring any obstructions in the way.
4. Whereas all other units will use their normal Locomotor from (1) to arrive here.


Aha! So that's where I read this before. I was certain I read a discussion about this somewhere.

@TAK02, why don't you test that out and find out?

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FS-21
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 09 Dec 2002
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
DCoder @ RenProj, 2009 wrote:
Update regarding War Factories: Using different exit paths than the existing one for normal vehicles is impossible for now, and will stay that way until someone smarter than me can read the locomotor code and extend it. Hover vehicles and jumpjets have their own exit paths which can be made changeable, but I don't think it's worth fixing without ordinary vehicle support. So, using custom foundations on War Factories is not supported.

Details: When exiting War Factories, objects get spawned in the ExitCoord= cell of the factory.
If the object uses Teleport or Tunnel Locomotors, it gets imbued with the Drive Locomotor and instructed to Force_Track(66) and go to the earlier mentioned Outline.10 cell.
If the object uses the Drive Locomotor, it also gets instructed to Force_Track(66) and go to Outline.10.
Otherwise, the object is told to go to cell (4, 1) relative to the factory's top corner cell.

Problem is, Force_Track() is an instruction for it to pick one of the predefined behaviours. In this case, track 66 is "four cells down that way\", and it calculates where it should start from based on the wanted exit position. Which means that, for example, if I pick a 3x5 foundation to mirror the current 5x3, and set an arbitrary ExitCoord=, this will happen:
1. All units spawn here.
2. Teleport, Tunnel or Drive Locomotor -equipped units will warp to here...
3. ... and drive out to here ignoring any obstructions in the way.
4. Whereas all other units will use their normal Locomotor from (1) to arrive here.


Source of quote: https://forums.renegadeprojects.com/showthread.php?tid=1378&pid=14772#pid14772
The image is a recreation, since the original was lost in time. The blue cell is used as Outline10.

TL;DR: 4x3 is completely possible without major art issues via customfoundationing to ensure Outline.10 ends up at the exit position. My The_I_Man based prerelease Allied WarFactory in AS-Ares relied on this for years. I suspect this 3x3 building is done the same way, forcing Outline10 to be the (4,1) cell, but I don't know for certain. The empty row skipped between the factory and the exit cell implies so.

All the other foundations will only work flawlessly for certain locomotors.


From my experience, a foundation of 4x3 is troublesome for the AI in some rare cases with mechs or hover vehicles involved because they get stuck inside the building jamming that factory until is destroyed. I don't remember that problem with human players.
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Noble_cat
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 24 Oct 2019

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

silverwind wrote:
I'm quite curious as to how you managed to pull off the 3x3 war factory.


I don't know what to say, so I'll take the screenshot and ini to talk about it. xD

Foundation = Custom
Foundation.X = 4
Foundation.Y = 3
Foundation.0 = 0,0
Foundation.1 = 1,0
Foundation.2 = 2,0
Foundation.3 = 0,1
Foundation.4 = 1,1
Foundation.5 = 2,1
Foundation.6 = 0,2
Foundation.7 = 1,2
Foundation.8 = 2,2
FoundationOutline.Length = 18
FoundationOutline.0 = -1,-1
FoundationOutline.1 = 0,-1
FoundationOutline.2 = 1,-1
FoundationOutline.3 = 2,-1
FoundationOutline.4 = 3,-1
FoundationOutline.5 = -1,0
FoundationOutline.6 = 3,0
FoundationOutline.7 = 4,0
FoundationOutline.8 = -1,1
FoundationOutline.9 = -1,2
FoundationOutline.10 = 4,1
FoundationOutline.11 = 3,2
FoundationOutline.12 = 4,2
FoundationOutline.13 = -1,3
FoundationOutline.14 = 0,3
FoundationOutline.15 = 1,3
FoundationOutline.16 = 2,3
FoundationOutline.17 = 3,3


QQ??20200419104347.png
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QQ??20200419104347.png



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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Genius.
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue
I once ninja'd MigEater #Tongue
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silverwind
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so essentially a 4x3 war factory with a 3x3 visible base, complimented well by what appears to be Unit Delivery-based base building.

Nicely done!

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