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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
need help with soviet cloning vats based game.
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Mr.Hymn
Soldier


Joined: 01 May 2020

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 2:35 am    Post subject:  need help with soviet cloning vats based game. Reply with quote

I don't want to replace the yuri cloning vat so I made the soviet version extract the file from RA2 based game and rename it from NACLON to SACLON instead but for some reason I believe I did not extract all the shp files in needs.

The SACLONMK never played out so it's like I am placing the SACLON building and working like normal but no buildup animation or damage animation whatsoever.

But no animation played
I have only
SACLON.shp
SACLONMK.shp
SCLONICON.shp
SGCLON.shp
SACLON_A.shp

Did I missed something?
in artmd.ini

Code:

[SACLON]
Remapable=yes
Normalized=yes
Cameo=SCLONICON
Foundation=2x2
Buildup=SACLONMK
Height=6
DemandLoadBuildup=true
FreeBuildup=true
NewTheater=yes
ActiveAnim=SACLON_A
ActiveAnimDamaged=SACLON_AD
ActiveAnimZAdjust=-5
OccupyHeight=4
DamageFireOffset0=23,27
CanBeHidden=False
DoubleThick=true

; Clone factory active animation Damaged
[SACLON_AD]
Image=SACLON_A
Normalized=yes
;NewTheater=yes
Layer=ground
Start=11
LoopStart=11
LoopEnd=21
LoopCount=-1
Rate=200
;DetailLevel=1
DoubleThick=true

[SACLON_A]
Image=SACLON_A
Normalized=yes
NewTheater=yes
Layer=ground
Start=0
LoopEnd=10
LoopCount=-1
Rate=200
;DetailLevel=1
DoubleThick=true

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m7
Commander


Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Location: The Fang

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need a "SGCLONMK.shp" for the game to display the buildup in all other theaters other than arctic. The file "SACLONMK.shp" is the buildup animation for specifically snow maps.
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Mr.Hymn
Soldier


Joined: 01 May 2020

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

m7 wrote:
You need a "SGCLONMK.shp" for the game to display the buildup in all other theaters other than arctic. The file "SACLONMK.shp" is the buildup animation for specifically snow maps.


I have searched the file and this SGCLONMK only existed in ra2md.mix which is not the soviet version. I might duplicate the SACLONMK.shp to SGCLONMK.shp


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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

search n*clon*.shp
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Mr.Hymn
Soldier


Joined: 01 May 2020

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cxtian39 wrote:
search n*clon*.shp


Here thanks. Can't use in RA2MD it's yuri version.


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silverwind
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ntclonmk.shp -> temperate
nuclonmk.shp -> urban
naclonmk.shp -> snow

YR adds Desert, Lunar, and New Urban theaters (D, L, and N, for the second letter in the file names).

ngclonmk.shp -> generic (the last file loaded, overriden by the above files for individual maps if they exist).

Basically, what you want to do is make a copy of ntclonmk.shp and rename it to SGCLONMK.shp, and use that.


read more:
https://www.modenc.renegadeprojects.com/Theatres

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

silverwind wrote:
Basically, what you want to do is make a copy of ntclonmk.shp and rename it to SGCLONMK.shp, and use that.

But don't forget to copy NACLONMK.shp and then rename to SACLON.shp.

Wouldn't want the snow to suddenly appear out of nowhere, would you?

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Mr.Hymn
Soldier


Joined: 01 May 2020

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
silverwind wrote:
Basically, what you want to do is make a copy of ntclonmk.shp and rename it to SGCLONMK.shp, and use that.

But don't forget to copy NACLONMK.shp and then rename to SACLON.shp.

Wouldn't want the snow to suddenly appear out of nowhere, would you?


Okie Dokie. Let me try and will let you know. Thank you very much,

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Savoy
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 29 Jul 2020

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I know it's a very long time to post this, but I want to do the same thing as you.
The problem is, I don't have any .shp files related to the Cloning Vats in my RA2 directory.
Can you please send me all the SACLON files that you made?
Thanks a lot.

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll find the Cloning Vats SHPs inside the MIXs, not loose in the folder. You need to extract the original then rename them.

Use XCC Mixer then hit Ctrl+F. Make it search for n*clon*.shp
The "Yuri" vat SHPs are inside ra2md.mix, the "Soviet" vat SHPs inside ra2.mix

Does anyone know why WW decided not to add the Yuri variants of things as new structures instead of overriding the originals like they did?

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Savoy
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 29 Jul 2020

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done it, thanks a lot.
But why when I play in URBAN theater, its animation appears in SNOW?
I've extracted all the n*clon.shp files in ra2.mix and tested them all by artmd.ini, but none worked.

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've probably renamed naclon (snow/arctic) to nuclon (urban).
Or NewTheater=no somewhere...

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MRMIdAS
Plasma Trooper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
You'll find the Cloning Vats SHPs inside the MIXs, not loose in the folder. You need to extract the original then rename them.

Use XCC Mixer then hit Ctrl+F. Make it search for n*clon*.shp
The "Yuri" vat SHPs are inside ra2md.mix, the "Soviet" vat SHPs inside ra2.mix

Does anyone know why WW decided not to add the Yuri variants of things as new structures instead of overriding the originals like they did?


Saves on disk space, install time and coding time, one would assume.
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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MRMIdAS wrote:
Saves on disk space, install time and coding time, one would assume.

No to all except the last one. The Yuri SHPs would still weigh a MB or two regardless of how they're named.
But even if WW wanted to save on coding time, all it would've taken was just copy-pasting existing code, then just change the first letter from N to Y.
A one-minute job, tops, since Psychic Sensor, Cloning Vats and Light Tank are pretty much the same in everything (except for what WW added later for balanz).

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4StarGeneral
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alot of stuff is hardcoded without Ares. It would definitely require additional coding. It would save on disk space and install time to not have another SHP when even a MB or 2 is a lot for 2000 era games.

Also, you have to remember, Yuri's Revenge was largely done by a handful of people and were rushed by EA. Time constraints killed a lot of things they wanted to do.
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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm struggling to understand what you mean.

4StarGeneral wrote:
Alot of stuff is hardcoded without Ares. It would definitely require additional coding.

Making a copy of NACLON and calling it YACLON (and adjusting the other values in art and rules entries as such) does not require Ares. It'd be like copying the RA2 cloning vats and changing only a bit, and finally the Image= and adjusting the art entries. How can Ares be necessary for such a small modification?

4StarGeneral wrote:
It would save on disk space and install time to not have another SHP when even a MB or 2 is a lot for 2000 era games.

RA2.mix already has a naclon.shp. It weighs 32232 bytes.
RA2md.mix also has a naclon.shp that overrides the RA2 one. It weighs 32440B.
The difference is roughly 200B per SHP. Multiply by 10 or something and... 2KB difference, 4KB if you want to be pessimistic.

I'd get if what you meant was "saving RAM space".
But not disk space. The YR naclon.shp would still weigh 32440 bytes even if I called it yaclon.shp. And it'd still be on the drive along-side the RA2 naclon.shp.
The rules and art INIs would've weighed a bit more if WW went with "addition" instead of "graphical override", but the difference would be marginal.

That, and unlike Firestorm 2 years prior, the YR INIs don't seem to override the RA2 INIs' values and expand upon the RA2 INIs (like we can do with Ares' #include), but fully replace them.

YR rules weighs roughly 725KB. RA2 rules weighs 530KB. If WW had done what Firestorm did (or used something like Ares' #include), they'd have saved those 530KB and the YR rules would only weigh roughly 195KB.
Currently both YR and RA2 rules together weigh 1.225MB on the SDD. And 530KB more than would be necessary.
I don't want to know how it looks like with the art, sound, theatre INIs and everything else.

side-note: I have the option "compress drive to save disk space" on, so my files are already compressed, or so Windows wants me to believe.

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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Constant Flux

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a pointless discussion, but at least it's not just a copy of the previous post and an actual discussion unlike the recent Media Hut, but I digress. You misunderstand, I think you forgot your own question.

Quote:
Does anyone know why WW decided not to add the Yuri variants of things as new structures instead of overriding the originals like they did?


Adding a 2nd structure copy of the first instead of overriding the original would take up more space on the HDD (already a precious commodity with most PCs only having ~20 GB at the time) by adding an additional file to install. This could be an attempt to save space or the more likely scenario, just rushed like much of the games are known for. UTNK, WEEDGUY, and DigSound to make Nuke work; Fog of War and Ice logic left broken and unused; SHPs of all sorts missing frames or art completely (GAFWLL?); need I go on?
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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4StarGeneral wrote:
Adding a 2nd structure copy of the first instead of overriding the original would take up more space on the HDD by adding an additional file to install.

Just explain this:
RA2 already has a naclon. YR then adds its own naclon, though it didn't have to add it under that name and could've been its own thing. So now we have two naclons.

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MRMIdAS
Plasma Trooper


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
4StarGeneral wrote:
Adding a 2nd structure copy of the first instead of overriding the original would take up more space on the HDD by adding an additional file to install.

Just explain this:
RA2 already has a naclon. YR then adds its own naclon, though it didn't have to add it under that name and could've been its own thing. So now we have two naclons.


Yes, this is how they *should* have done it, except it's much easier to just change the AIBasePlanningSide and the Prerequisite, instead of copying the structure, making the above changes, adding it to the structures list, adding the animation to the animations list, adding the art/animations to art.ini, changing all the triggers associated with the original, on top of having the Yurified art files to go with it. all that additional screwing around will take TIME AND DISK SPACE, also, the larger a file is, the longer it takes to install to disk, just FYI.

Also, we don't know *when* the decision was made to change the cloning vats to Yuri, it may have been after missions were already complete, and Westwood discovered the "mission 1" bug happened if they screwed around cloning buildings.
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see your point, except for this:
MRMIdAS wrote:
changing all the triggers associated with the original

There are no triggers featuring NACLON, and any added over the course of YR's campaign would be from scratch anyways.

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MRMIdAS
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Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
I can see your point, except for this:
MRMIdAS wrote:
changing all the triggers associated with the original

There are no triggers featuring NACLON, and any added over the course of YR's campaign would be from scratch anyways.


Fair enough, I'm too used to seeing them in my mod apparently.
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