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Editing C&C Remastered graphics
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:56 pm    Post subject:  Editing C&C Remastered graphics Reply with quote

How does remap work in the TGA files?
Is there still a palette used in the remaster? Does the palette now contain an alpha channel?

Could you provide an example frame from the Remaster mammoth tank?
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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The TGA files dont use pals & yes they use an alpha channel for the transparency. Remap colour is done with bright green instead of red.

I converted the Alpha channel into a mask on the Mammoth so you can see the shadow (otherwise all the transparent parts are black).


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cxtian39
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So just one file for everything remap + nonremap + shadow?
I thought it would be another tga for remap only.
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G-E
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After all this time people still haven't realized the units are basically all remap?
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mig Eater wrote:
The TGA files dont use pals & yes they use an alpha channel for the transparency. Remap colour is done with bright green instead of red.

How does that work when you want a non-remap green unit? e.g. Tiberian Fiend with green tiberium crystals on its back?

G-E wrote:
After all this time people still haven't realized the units are basically all remap?

you mean the obvious how they were like that in classic TD/RA1,
or that now in the Remaster really everything is remap and every slightly green tint is changed into the respective house color tint?
And in case of other colors like grey, it would still apply the color shift, but since grey has no rgb difference, it stays grey.

Does remap now work like a Hue color shift in a HSL color space and simply applied to the entire image? (like shown in attached gif)


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Tuc0
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only green is remapable, units have other colors too, like blue windows for Harvester, MLRS or red one for Stealth Tanks, etc.

LKO wrote:
How does that work when you want a non-remap green unit? e.g. Tiberian Fiend with green tiberium crystals on its back?

Looks like only exact color tone of green is remapable - HSV
H tone seems to be 110-111 as remapable green.

Silos don't have any issues.


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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm, i wonder how i can persuade 3dsmax to restrict a texture to produce only colors in a certain Hue value when rendered.
A green texture under a yellow light or antialiased against a different adjacent color would change the Hue value.

I see this becoming a real nuisance in future. Too bad they didn't use something like purple for remap.
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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This probably explains why neutral objects appear bright green in the Remasters' map editor.
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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LKO, you can still use multiple passes for rendering and then merge the layers if that's easier for you. The same way you're doing 8bpp SHPs atm.

Considering the acknowledged bug of texture bleaking causing lags and spikes, I guess duplicating most of the textures once more for the masks would have meant way too much texture space getting wasted and was an optimization.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems i may have to revisit my old Image Combine tool again, since that was able to merge/combine 2 alpha channel images into one.
That would be right now the only way for me to combine different render passes in a convenient way, without already fitting the images into a color palette (as Image Shaper is doing).

It may need to be enhanced, to offer options like "make sure every pixel has a Hue value of 100" for all images in a certain column, so there is no color mixup in the remap render pass.
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Merophage
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Joined: 26 Mar 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not think the conclusion of limiting it to one hue value is entirely correct. It's a chroma key that does hover around a specific range of green that allows for shading and antialiasing. I'm sure it broke on some of the sprites where they then had to be corrected manually, as all chroma keys do. I'm certain we will find evidence of this as we go through the files more thoroughly

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Tuc0
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if it is fine (legal) to share modified and ripped CnCR assets downgraded and compressed for RA2 and TS here or having them included in mods for different CnC games.

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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Technically it's illegal as its against the EULA, but its the same for Generals, C&C3, RA3 & C&C4. EA didn't care when assets were converted from any of those games & used in TS/RA2 mods in the past.

Maybe if say next week an OpenRA Remastered mod was released, which was basically C&CR you can download for free. Then maybe the EA lawyers might appear...

I can imagine that in a few years time someone might make a OpenRA Remastered mod though, by which point EA would have moved on & wouldn't care enough to do anything about it.
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question: wasn't "remap" in C&C and RA1 a sort of yellow? Why would they change it to green?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mig Eater wrote:
I can imagine that in a few years time someone might make a OpenRA Remastered mod though, by which point EA would have moved on & wouldn't care enough to do anything about it.

I would love to see the modding community getting together and finishing ReWire before the official TS Remaster (if there is one ever made)
The current content is certainly qualitative high enough to be a serious competition for any "professional" made TS Remaster.
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G-E
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mig Eater wrote:
Maybe if say next week an OpenRA Remastered mod was released, which was basically C&CR you can download for free. Then maybe the EA lawyers might appear...

I can imagine that in a few years time someone might make a OpenRA Remastered mod though, by which point EA would have moved on & wouldn't care enough to do anything about it.

One way around these type of legal conflicts is to force a user to use the actual data files from the game. In ORA's case that would mean loading the C&CR data natively, but forcing a player to provide the "pirated" game data themselves.
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Tuc0
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merophage wrote:
I do not think the conclusion of limiting it to one hue value is entirely correct. It's a chroma key that does hover around a specific range of green that allows for shading and antialiasing. I'm sure it broke on some of the sprites where they then had to be corrected manually, as all chroma keys do. I'm certain we will find evidence of this as we go through the files more thoroughly

You could be right. Comparing color tone of silo and power plant, red is tint is a lot different.
Isn't chroma keying like this a bit expensive for performance? Or does the game precache all remapped sprites?


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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Topic split so the discussion can be easier to find.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks Mig

if it's really Chroma keying, how could objects then still have green parts?
Is the silo fill state a separate cut out animation which has Remapable=no?
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Tuc0
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silo stages frames contains whole image. 4 stages + 4 damaged +1 standalone frame as 3rd damage stage.
Along with each standalone TGA frame is META disctionary that holds image size and crop coordinates.
Code:
{"size":[384,384],"crop":[0,0,384,375]}


I have just realized that all buildings have nicely crafted 3rd damage stage, these could fit well into TS.

Out of curiosity, is there some program where you can attach 3D mesh to 2D image to change isometric camera angle from 45deg to 30deg so it could fit better in TS?


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4StarGeneral
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuc0 wrote:
Out of curiosity, is there some program where you can attach 3D mesh to 2D image to change isometric camera angle from 45deg to 30deg so it could fit better in TS?


You can do it in Photoshop, but it won't come out nearly as nice as having the 3D model.
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Merophage
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Picking a hue and replacing it is chroma keying. I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with the fact that it's hue. I am just pointing out that it must be more than just one hue value.

Considering the size of the textures here and that the shading overhead is low, tt's likely they picked that over a separate mask layer for performance reasons. You cankey in the shader and you have one less texture to load.

I don't know why they specifically picked green. seems like a risky choice for a tiberium based game. That being said the only object that has non remapable green in it is the TD silo, and even that green is sufficiently different from the remapable range.

The issue to get around is usually solving anti-aliasing when it's against another saturated color, and that's where I think we are likely to find the clearest evidence for post processing to stay within the keyed range.

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Crimsonum
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuc0 wrote:
I have just realized that all buildings have nicely crafted 3rd damage stage, these could fit well into TS.


I think you mean 2nd damage state, excluding the "normal"/"intact" state. Semantics aside, isn't this last frame still used in the Remasters like in the originals? As in, when the building has 1 HP left or is about to collapse.
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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the 2nd damage frame is used just before the building is destroyed.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

could someone replace a frame of one unit with an image like this

and then make screenshots ingame in different house color settings?

Then we could see pretty fast which greens are replaced and which aren't.
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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
could someone replace a frame of one unit with an image like this


I had the same idea, I'm busy for the next few days tho so it will have to wait until next week. Unless someone else wants to try it sooner.
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Tuc0
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have already tried that, but anything I replace gets corrupted in big editor. I will look for some other way.

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E1 Elite
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Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here.


CnCRe_Remap_Orange.png
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuc0 wrote:
I have already tried that, but anything I replace gets corrupted in big editor. I will look for some other way.


Are you using the very latest version of the BIG Editor (0.583 Beta)?

I'm asking that because I've recently fixed the preview of 32 bits TGA files there.

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Tuc0
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:

I'm asking that because I've recently fixed the preview of 32 bits TGA files there.

Yes I have latest version, when I replaced one of files, editor viewed it fine, but after I looked on file after restarting the editor, imported image didn't had any preview and meta file showed corrupted symbols.

Looking on remapped palette, the presence of purple and orange tint for red remap area indicates that remapping shifts hue in specific green range.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E1 Elite wrote:
Here.

thank you
Could you upload as reference the unchanged original image as well?

Concerning the remap result, it looks pretty bad imo. I see lots of false remap conversions and color issues in future, especially when trying to get green tiberium on a unit/building.

Especially problematic when someone somehow creates the object with those border line greens, which turn into a completely different color than the intended remap. A purple or orange unit among soviet red units would stick out.


The Zoom factor seems to ruin pixel precise analysis on those remap images. They are a bit stretched/shrinked and make it hard to tell if orange and red house color indeed use a different range of green (as shown on the images), or if the slight difference is a result of the rescaled zoomed image.
I assume the white circle was once a single pixel line, and not 2 pixel thick at some places as now visible in those images.


How are glowing colors done now?
RA1 had glowing (red palette scrolling) pixel on top of the mammoth and submarine antennae iirc. How are the remastered graphics doing this?
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuc0 wrote:
Banshee wrote:

I'm asking that because I've recently fixed the preview of 32 bits TGA files there.

Yes I have latest version, when I replaced one of files, editor viewed it fine, but after I looked on file after restarting the editor, imported image didn't had any preview and meta file showed corrupted symbols.

Looking on remapped palette, the presence of purple and orange tint for red remap area indicates that remapping shifts hue in specific green range.


By replacing, you mean you have saved the .MEG file or created a new .MEG file out of it.

Because if this is the case, it is possible that some headers of this .MEG file might either be corrupted or we have some sort of CRC problem. Could you send me the file for analysis?

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CCHyper
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, The C&C Remasters can not load Mega archives from the mod folders. If it does load them, then it is unexpected behavior and could result in core files not loading correctly.
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Tuc0
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking on antennas, I don't see any benefit from remastering flawed wobbling frames where it is now more noticeable that they don't stay on same position when turret is rotating:

Spoiler (click here to read it):



Banshee wrote:
By replacing, you mean you have saved the .MEG file or created a new .MEG file out of it.

Because if this is the case, it is possible that some headers of this .MEG file might either be corrupted or we have some sort of CRC problem. Could you send me the file for analysis?


I have tried deleting one existing frame and copying new one and saving afterward.
I also tried making completely new one, where some of the files got corrupted, some not.

Here is small test with few images, almost half of these are corrupted. (meg inside, extension can't be used as attachment)


test.zip
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G-E
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was almost certainly done in the original to keep the lines distinct, so they don't create a blob when overlapping and such. It is rather hilarious they kept this though #Tongue
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cxtian39
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a mod adds new graphic already?
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E1 Elite
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attached few more samples with the same input. Irrespective of changes in resolution or graphics settings or meta file settings, in-game dimensions are different than the original image so scaling comes with it.


CnCRe_RemapColors.7z
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Banshee
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuc0 wrote:
Banshee wrote:
By replacing, you mean you have saved the .MEG file or created a new .MEG file out of it.

Because if this is the case, it is possible that some headers of this .MEG file might either be corrupted or we have some sort of CRC problem. Could you send me the file for analysis?


I have tried deleting one existing frame and copying new one and saving afterward.
I also tried making completely new one, where some of the files got corrupted, some not.

Here is small test with few images, almost half of these are corrupted. (meg inside, extension can't be used as attachment)


Thanks for the sample, buddy.

I've managed to track down the problem with .meg file saving on OS BIG Editor. The problematic files in your .meg file had a wrong offset (the program did not sum the offset of the headers into these problematic files due to a stupid line of code). If you fix the offset by hand, you can recover these files #Tongue (sorry).

Anyway, I will upload a version with a fix in the next minutes Smile.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E1 Elite wrote:
Attached few more samples with the same input. Irrespective of changes in resolution or graphics settings or meta file settings, in-game dimensions are different than the original image so scaling comes with it.

Thanks again.

I assume that's why several people were demanding a much finer zoom control, so they can set ingame scale to match 1:1 screen resolution.
It sucks that it seems to be impossible to get 100% 1:1 pixel precise rendering of pixel assets.
When assets are horizontally shrinked as in your example files (compared to the original tga), proportions will be off and fine pixel details lost.
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E1 Elite
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ZoomFactor under CNCZoomFactors in gameconstants.xml should be about 1.9744 to get closest to the original file width. (Gold/yellow looks more of grey).

Edit: Game isn't allowing to change the existing TGA file's Meta file in the mod, the refinery (PROC) graphics I tried to replace has 384x366 dimension.


RemapColorsBetter.7z
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Tuc0
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 26 Sep 2016
Location: Slovakia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tried Sketchup for the first time, to change camera angle for refinery to fit into TS. It still needs some touch and polishing, but I am quite satisfied with the result.


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Fryone
Soldier


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Location: Mother Russia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found cameos without frame and text, but it's one .tga file with all ui and it's 266 mb in size.


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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which file
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I DON'T extract models from Rivals.
I play Rivals tho, PM me for a fight.

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Fryone
Soldier


Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Location: Mother Russia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"MT_COMMANDBAR_COMMON.TGA" inside TEXTURES_SRGB.MEG

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't help but think of Village People when looking at that Medic.
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cxtian39
Commander


Joined: 11 Feb 2016

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone finds the UI box that shows unit's name?
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I DON'T extract models from Rivals.
I play Rivals tho, PM me for a fight.

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