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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum
Let’s throw around some crazy ideas
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AnimalMan
Chem Warrior


Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:19 am    Post subject:  Let’s throw around some crazy ideas Reply with quote

Hey, I make this thread to discuss purely theoretical ideas for ra2.

I read the forums over and it makes me think.

Here are some editing ideas that I believe are currently impossible:

1. Life Steal / Leech Life
True life steal, is ability to directly sap the HP of an enemy. While having it replenish your own. Apply to infantry type. I can’t conceive of a way that this could work, even if you try to cheat it with some idk Gatling logic. True life steal require you to actually hit an enemy, while healing yourself and damaging the enemy on WH impact. I mention Gatling as I suppose a Gatling could alternate a self heal and attack weapon, and loop in a cycle, but it would likely open up the unit to be exploited for free self heal. When unlike normal self heal leech life is suppose to require the infantry to deal damage for its heal.

2. Shielding / Armor
True shield protects units HP from incoming damage for as long as the shield HP lasts. This, as seen in EBFD is shield HP and HP. Weapons affect shield/armor differently via Versus override. When the unit is not being attacked, and some time has passed since it’s taken damage, the shield recharges in intervals, but armour is never replenished unless the unit is repaired. Shield and armor require additional HP bar with customised colour to represent Shield(blue) Armor(yellow).  One way shielding could/won’t work (well enough) is that a unit with shield could die into a unit without shield and redeploy into a unit with shield.  One thing with shield that is very important is that even a unit with low HP can recharge shield and be immune for as long as the shield holds. This mean unit beneath the shield doesn’t need to be very strong. This was how the laser tank was balanced in EBfD. It was very weak and die in one shot if it’s shield was broken but could also quickly retreat to recharge the thing.

3. Projectile Deflect
An armour type that rebounds incoming projectile back in the direction it came, with adjustable speed change, and travel time before detonation. Effectively we delay the detonation of the projectile and reroute it’s course so it either deflects randomly away from the unit, or directly back at the target who fired it. This could work well with true shield mechanic. But currently there is no way of doing this.

4. Weapon Steal
Similar to hammer tank, the enemy weapon is stolen when the enemy is destroyed and the unit or infantry now holds either exclusively; a brand new weapon replacing his default weapon (the only real way); or acquires an additional secondary weapon.(will struggle to fire it because of primary override) would be nice if a unit could fire two primary simultaneously. Say as if dual pistols were primary=pistola and secondary=pistola and both were fired on command of the WH of each weapon permitted target. I not sure if the unit would be sleek and nice but I do believe that ares abductor logic can grant new weapons when a unit is abducted but it’s not true weapon steal. Unless of course the unit is allowed to fire out of an abductor unit like a battle fortress in which case true weapon steal may be a real thing that can work. With abductor battle fortress I don’t think that you could give it 1 port, and only allow the most recently abducted unit to fire out. If it is possible It would likely = the first unit ever abducted.


Anyway

Thought these things would be cool to have

If you have any ideas that can’t currently be done, or anything to ad or theory of how any of this stuff could be cheated (clean or broken) into the game post here.


Hope all’s well and you’re all having a good year so far.

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) you might be able to do this by having a normal weapon, but the muzzle animation then does negative damage to heal whoever fired the weapon.
You can already do this to destroy whoever fires the weapon, so healing should be possible too.

This is what I'm using to damage/kill a unit that fires a weapon:
Spoiler (click here to read it):
Rulesmd.ini:
Code:
[Unit]
DamageSelf=yes
Immune=no

[Weapon]
Suicide=no
Anim=SLAVSUICIDE

[SLAVNONE]
Verses=300%,300%,300%,300%,300%,300%,300%,300%,300%,300%,300%
AnimList=SLAVSUICIDE
CellSpread=0.3
Artmd.ini:
Code:
[SLAVSUICIDE]
Image=VETERAN
Damage=99999
Warhead=SLAVNONE


2) no idea; ask AlexB or the fine folks working on Phobos.

3) no idea; ask AlexB or the fine folks working on Phobos.

4) Mental Omega did this.
The Scavenger is a Gunner=yes vehicle; so any vehicles it abducts become Passengers. That's how it changes weapons.
I could post some code snippets here, but Speeder someone might get angry and get me banned.

If you get your hands on MO's code, search for [TRACTOR].
For some reason the Tyrant has ID SCAV and the actual Scavenger TRACTOR. Hooray MO for great naming.

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MasterHaosis
General


Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Location: Serbia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnimalMan wrote:
3. Projectile Deflect
An armour type that rebounds incoming projectile back in the direction it came, with adjustable speed change, and travel time before detonation. Effectively we delay the detonation of the projectile and reroute it’s course so it either deflects randomly away from the unit, or directly back at the target who fired it. This could work well with true shield mechanic. But currently there is no way of doing this.

I am sure I have seen kenosis made this thing working! He made some shield which destroys all projectile fired


AnimalMan wrote:
Hope all’s well and you’re all having a good year so far.

This is shitty year so far for me.

TAK02 wrote:

4) Mental Omega did this.
The Scavenger is a Gunner=yes vehicle; so any vehicles it abducts become Passengers. That's how it changes weapons.
I could post some code snippets here, but Speeder someone might get angry and get me banned.

Then edit their code and post it. Do not use same names for units, verses or something like that. You cant be banned for that because we are talking about codes, not assets. This is for learning! Remember if we did not share codes in past from Westwood we would not be able to mod game at all.
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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
4) Mental Omega did this.
The Scavenger is a Gunner=yes vehicle; so any vehicles it abducts become Passengers. That's how it changes weapons.
I could post some code snippets here, but Speeder someone might get angry and get me banned.

If you get your hands on MO's code, search for [TRACTOR].
For some reason the Tyrant has ID SCAV and the actual Scavenger TRACTOR. Hooray MO for great naming.


It's very simple really, there's no reason to take codes from MO so long as you can read the Ares documentation. Take the IFV and give it these tags, then just give everything (including vehicles) IFVMode=

Code:
[FV]
Passengers.BySize=no
SizeLimit=6
IFVMode=16

[HoverMissile]
Abductor=yes
Abductor.Anim=WARPAWAY
Abductor.ChangeOwner=yes

[MTNK]
IFVMode=4

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Virgil
Flamethrower


Joined: 22 Jul 2018

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing special for the abductor logic, you give vehicles IFVMode=, make the abductor an IFV (Gunner=yes), then give it an abduct weapon to abduct the first vehicle it destroys, thus making it getting a passenger, so that vehicle would get a new weapon. That's how MO3 Scavenger works.

Problem with this approach lies on the IFV logic itself, as it doesn't allow you to fire 2 weapons like the RA3 Hammer Tank, and the logic, though expanded already, still has a limited number of IFVModes, so when you have too many units to abduct, you won't have enough modes to give them.

As for Shield, I believe Revenge Now have that with their own modified Ares, though not public for stability issues.

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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4StarGeneral wrote:
Code:
Passengers.BySize=no
What's BySize=no do?
Is it there to emulate RA1 behaviour of having each tank-passenger in an amphibious transport only take one slot at max?
EDIT: "Passengers.BySize=no makes every passenger take up only 1 spot in the transport regardless of size, e.g. a Size=6 APOC takes up the same space as E1."

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AnimalMan
Chem Warrior


Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding a heal weapon on muzzle anim I am not sure that you can put negative damage on animation weapons. They need I believe a positive damage to cause effect. Since negative damage only works on allies. The muzzle animation doesn’t keep reference to the player who fired the weapon I think***  so a negative damage muzzle hmm

If you want two weapons then the abductor capacity could be limited with battle fortress. But never tried putting a vehicle in a battle fortress so

Good to know there is a work around for weapon steal.


The fire storm destroys projectile on impact. Presumably by animation?

So maybe a shield is possible but it wouldn’t be as nice as a secondary blue HP bar

On the shields and Armor here ;; Projectile Impact Sound ; to let you know the projectile was eaten by the shield, or Armor.

Actually true Armor  goes like this —-

Armor HP BAR
Health HP Bar
ArmorStrength = 25% // Damage Absorption Percent

So unlike shield the damage from each projectile is reduced by 25% and eats the Armor value. So like damage of 100 cause 75 to HP and 25 to Armor. That’s real classic Armor.  A shield is effectively ArmorStrength = 100.

Shield takes the full 100% damage. While Armor is reducing the damage to HP taken; for as long as the Armor holds. This mean you still can die with 15% Armor in the HP in short each shot causes damage to both HP and Armor unless Armor = 100 //Shield

Higher value like ArmorStrength = 75 will cause the Armor to eat most of the damage while taking only 25% of the projectiles damage from the HP


There’s an additional handling here;
When the remaining ArmorHP < (ProjectileDamage \ ArmorStrength) then the remainder is deducted from the DefaultHP. For example; I have 15 Armor remaining, and incoming damage is 100, and ArmorAbsorpotion = 25% the remaining 10 HP that couldn’t be taken from Armor are taken from HP while the Armor drops to 0. This can be done after projectile is detonated like.

If (Armor < 0)
{
HP = HP - (-Armor);  // or HP + Armor (because it’s negative)
Armor = 0; // reset Armor to 0.
}

Finally Shield and Armor are the same thing ;
ArmorStrength = // Absorption Percent 0-100 or 0.0-1.0
ArmorReplenish = // Ticks to regenerate Armor -1 doesn’t replenish
ReplenishAmount = // Amount to replenish per tick
ArmorHP = // the amount of HP the Armor has

Although the versus system does incorporate this behaviour; this is only relevant a secondary HP bar.  So if Bool UseArmorShield = true.

In this respect the Versus is not overridden. The code is intercepted before damage is removed from HP after versus calculate.Where it checks if UseArmorShield = true. If not then follow through with classic damage reduction. If true; then deduct this damage from ArmorHP & HP instead. Versus of WH still affect whether a unit can or not even fire at the target.  Only the actual HP reduction part needs to be intercepted. Versus is still respected that if the weapon was only 25% effective vs this UnitType then the weapon is only 25% effective vs this Shield. With additional DamageAbosption modifier telling us how much of that versus’ 25% effectiveness vs thisUnit is eating ArmorHP instead of HP

After Weapon Damage and Warhead Versus is calculated (e.g 100 damage, 25% vs plate)  this value is then further divided and shared among both HP and ShieldHP based on the shields ArmorAbsorb percentage. As Paralel route to the final HP reduction code after the classic Versus is calculated. In this respect the projectile carrying 100 damage was only ever going to cause 25 damage to this unit. But since the unit is using Shield; and that Absorption is 20% then the 25 damage deals 20 to ShieldBar and 5 to HP. If shieldbar ever hits negative run the HP adjust and reset that shieldbar to 0.

More so adv EMPDisableSheild= Yes // if Absoption is 100% does the disabled unit keep its shield?





Sardaukar + Guild = Pyramid




Freman + Sardauker = Storm Rider

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kenosis
Commander


Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just cannot see the point of very much detailed explanations of how things work while they do not exist at all.......if it is a manual for a already working patch, it would be respected.
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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virgil wrote:
Problem with this approach lies on the IFV logic itself, as it doesn't allow you to fire 2 weapons like the RA3 Hammer Tank, and the logic, though expanded already, still has a limited number of IFVModes, so when you have too many units to abduct, you won't have enough modes to give them.


To fix this you just don't give the vehicle IFV logic, make the vehicle OpenTopped and you get both weapons.
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TAK02
General


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4StarGeneral wrote:
Virgil wrote:
Problem with this approach lies on the IFV logic itself, as it doesn't allow you to fire 2 weapons like the RA3 Hammer Tank, and the logic, though expanded already, still has a limited number of IFVModes, so when you have too many units to abduct, you won't have enough modes to give them.
To fix this you just don't give the vehicle IFV logic, make the vehicle OpenTopped and you get both weapons.
Can V3s for example still fire from within such transports?

Yes, yes they can if PassiveAcquire=yes

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AnimalMan
Chem Warrior


Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt spawner weapons will work like this ^^

However; why not give that V3 a secondary that uses a projectile image for this very purpose Very Happy


There’s another alternative method to make shield which is make Iron Curtain breakable with DamageThreshold. So that shields are active indefinitely until a set amount of damage has been applied to the Curtain.

Maybe now now maybe you can destroy infinite animations using other animations or warheads. Maybe attach a destructible animation. Apply some attached effect. And have this attached effect breakable under damage idk. Maybe animation Health should exist.

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