:: Home :: Get Hosted :: PPM FAQ :: Forum FAQ :: Privacy Policy :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Register :: Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in ::

Do you want to advertise at Project Perfect Mod. Find out how to do it HERE.

The time now is Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:45 pm
All times are UTC + 0
 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum
RA2/YR Palette Chart
Moderators: Global Moderators, Red Alert 2 Moderators
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [19 Posts] Mark the topic unread ::  View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Zorbung
Soldier


Joined: 04 Jun 2021

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:54 pm    Post subject:  RA2/YR Palette Chart Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Help me complete/correct this palette colors chart please, here's what I've found so far:

[0] = transparent
[1] = shadow
[2..15] = pure colors
[16..31] = player color remap
[32..199] = common colors used for vxl and shp
[200..203] = more common colors, useful for enhancing reds
[204..207] = unused
[208..239] = theater color remap
[240..254] = glow colors, unaffected by game lighting
[255] = unused

edit4: updated picture...


ra2-palette-map.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  66.14 KB
 Viewed:  947 Time(s)

ra2-palette-map.jpg



Last edited by Zorbung on Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:41 am; edited 4 times in total

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The pink region near the end is filled in on unitsno, but for whatever reason they left it out of the others. What I and others do is simply overwrite the others with the snow palette so they all match, the rest of the colours are the same.

Ironically each theater version could be slightly different to account for the tonality of being under an overcast vs sunny sky, but they share the VPL so it would require a lot of finessing to make sure the gradient curves still work... and thus no one will attempt it.

But to explain your numbered bands, they aren't meaningful except the remap, blank (0) and shadow (1) indexes. The default VPL considers 2-15 and 240+ to be perma-bright, as in they do not change under rotation on a voxel. There's nothing stopping a modder changing those colours and making their own custom VPL to incorporate them into the lighting schema like the other ranges. However there is some utility in having the last 16 as perma-bright for things like headlights or jet engines on voxels.

There's no range just for voxels, all voxels use the full unit*.pal appropriate for the map theater, as do buildings by default. You'll find the majority of voxels even dip into the perma-bright regions from conversion errors. The way to stop this is to make conversion palettes that pink-out the tonal ranges that shouldn't be converted into.
_________________
http://www.moddb.com/mods/scorched-earth-ra2-mod-with-smart-ai

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zorbung
Soldier


Joined: 04 Jun 2021

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks G-E, I've updated the post. Is it correct now?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well again the "unused" part is only true if you use the original palettes, and lately more mods are moving away from the original Westwood limitations. My own palette has almost every field changed, and a vastly different VPL to go with it. So what I'm saying is those shouldn't be treated as special, the editor should be able to use them like any other. Likewise "blood" is just red, do you call a firetruck blood coloured?


se-pal.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  25.59 KB
 Viewed:  910 Time(s)

se-pal.jpg



_________________
http://www.moddb.com/mods/scorched-earth-ra2-mod-with-smart-ai

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zorbung
Soldier


Joined: 04 Jun 2021

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are no limits, I was just charting them for my own interest. As for the 4 reds I read somewhere they are used for infantry blood on some SHP that's why the naming.

Like you did, I'd like to fill up the unused colors, some brown shades for the desert theater etc, but I wasn't sure if some of those indices were usable or reserved. Thanks again!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You know there was a modenc entry for this right?
https://modenc.renegadeprojects.com/PAL
_________________
"Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything."

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail YouTube User URL
Zorbung
Soldier


Joined: 04 Jun 2021

PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, but if you read it it's not very explicit and the only chart I've found is Haydn's jpg on https://xhp.xwis.net > Documents > VXL Palet FAQ which is also a bit messed up.

It's one of those things that advanced modders already know and they assume everyone else knows and never talk about so I was only trying to make things more clear.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is a tutorial topic on this - https://ppmforums.com/topic-33829/the-palette/

Picture and info on first post are conveying wrong information.

[2-15] - There is no highlighting or VPL connection. These are generic indices in unit*.pal, though similar ones in palette.pal are used for building selection box in TS.
[32-239] - These are also generic colors. The gradient, unused or theater differences are just the way original game has used it. Modders can change as needed. VPL is a separate file and it can be edited to make use of the unused ones in the original palette. Calling it blood or theater remap is misleading.
[240-254] - These are not affected by map lighting, so are also referred as glowing color indices. Index 255 is affected by map lighting.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zorbung
Soldier


Joined: 04 Jun 2021

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

E1 Elite wrote:
Picture and info on first post are conveying wrong information.

Didn't have room to write a wall of text in a little picture, so the names are just guides but I will update it if it sounds wrong. Btw I see someone put in on Modenc, I can't update that though.

E1 Elite wrote:
There is a tutorial topic on this - https://ppmforums.com/topic-33829/the-palette/

I read that too but is meant for TS and talking in "look at this and this and see how this looks like afterwards" doesn't make it a good tutorial... I also took the "blood" info from there which actually makes sense, why else would there be 4 isolated reds? Sure they can be used for other things, it's just a naming.

E1 Elite wrote:
[2-15] - There is no highlighting or VPL connection. These are generic indices in unit*.pal, though similar ones in palette.pal are used for building selection box in TS.

so what are [2-15] for in YR then? unused? Heritage from TS? Are they safe to change?

E1 Elite wrote:
[240-254] - These are not affected by map lighting, so are also referred as glowing color indices.

how is that different than calling them VPL highlights, isn't the same thing? why is that misleading?

E1 Elite wrote:
Index 255 is affected by map lighting.

what is 255 used for then? just an isolated color? is it reserved for something like [0] and [1]?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
McPwny
Cyborg Specialist


Joined: 29 Jan 2018

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the highlight colors arent limited to voxels and work on .shp art, too.
_________________
visit my moddb profile for .shp downloads and stuff

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

G-E wrote:
The default VPL considers 2-15 and 240+ to be perma-bright


Not true, see the attachment. In the default VPL none of the colors are unlit (well 0 is, but it renders transparent anyway). In addition colors 204-254 are magenta (unused).

Zorbung wrote:
E1 Elite wrote:
[240-254] - These are not affected by map lighting, so are also referred as glowing color indices.

how is that different than calling them VPL highlights, isn't the same thing? why is that misleading?


Associating them with the VPL is misleading, the default VPL does not support these colors like SHPs do. See the attachment. A modder can easily modify the VPL to produce the same unlit color effect though, as I did for TI.

In other words, if you want to be specific, calling them something like "Unlit colors [SHP]" would be more accurate.

Zorbung wrote:
E1 Elite wrote:
Index 255 is affected by map lighting.

what is 255 used for then? just an isolated color? is it reserved for something like [0] and [1]?


Just an isolated color, pure white in many of the palettes. It servers no special function AFAIK.


vpl_default.png
 Description:
Example of the default VPL.
 Filesize:  68.01 KB
 Viewed:  748 Time(s)

vpl_default.png



_________________
OmegaBolt wrote:
TS is abysmal to play, unless you're just casually city building in it.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zorbung
Soldier


Joined: 04 Jun 2021

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Crimsonum, I've updated the picture, let me know if it's still wrong.

One thing I don't get, how can a voxel use temp/snow theater colors while the other palettes are pink? When starting a desert map, does the game checks for that pink and falls back to unittem or what?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When these palettes are used by .shp buildings/units, they do not adjust brightness according to VPL, they obey they map lighting instead. With .shp art those perma-bright colour ranges aren't affected by map lighting.

Again I reiterate, those perma-bright ranges are NOT unused, many voxels use them, whether accidentally or deliberately, they are used. If you open VXLSE or SHP Builder, you'll see they come included with scripts to "kill perma-bright pixels" which just means replacing those with the normal ranges in the middle.

The reason the pink ranges in unittem are unused by voxels is there's no point to use them without something there in every theater. Unlike .shp art there's no theater-specific voxel art, although Ares/Phobos could allow this...
_________________
http://www.moddb.com/mods/scorched-earth-ra2-mod-with-smart-ai

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Zorbung wrote:
Thanks Crimsonum, I've updated the picture, let me know if it's still wrong.


Seems mostly right. The "shadow" color #1 is technically not a special color. It's simply a convention, and maybe some kind of optimization measure, to use it for shadow frames, but you can just as easily use any other color and it'll work fine.

I don't know if colors 2-15 are actually unused in all of RA2/YR, but they're normal colors as well.

G-E wrote:
Again I reiterate, those perma-bright ranges are NOT unused, many voxels use them, whether accidentally or deliberately, they are used. If you open VXLSE or SHP Builder, you'll see they come included with scripts to "kill perma-bright pixels" which just means replacing those with the normal ranges in the middle.


I think you misunderstand. Only colors 240-254 are so-called "perma-bright" (unlit) on SHP units/buildings using unit*.pal palette. This is a hardcoded engine feature. The voxel normals "palette" (VPL) does NOT have this feature, not by default at least. If you use colors 240-254 on a voxel without touching the VPL, those colors will appear magenta in-game (or green, but that's another topic). However, modders can edit that range of colors in the VPL to produce the same effect that SHPs have, for voxels.

I dunno why the editor scripts include colors 2-15, perhaps an oversight/misconception by early modders.
_________________
OmegaBolt wrote:
TS is abysmal to play, unless you're just casually city building in it.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Crimsonum wrote:
I think you misunderstand. Only colors 240-254 are so-called "perma-bright" (unlit) on SHP units/buildings using unit*.pal palette. This is a hardcoded engine feature. The voxel normals "palette" (VPL) does NOT have this feature, not by default at least.

It's been a long time since I had the default VPL, but as I recall some of those pixels were available for use and even when they didn't turn pink they were bright. They may have changed slightly, but if relative to the rest they were brighter anyway, it would match the idea of it, just not perfectly.

There's also Atomicnoodle's publicly released VPL which a lot of people use. I don't remember the specifics, but it had some stuff I really didn't like about it.
_________________
http://www.moddb.com/mods/scorched-earth-ra2-mod-with-smart-ai

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zorbung
Soldier


Joined: 04 Jun 2021

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

After doing some tests, VPL uses most colors except the glowing ones, so I've updated the picture again.

But I still don't understand how theater colors are being used. Voxels don't use that color range and default VPL doesn't use it either yet I can see some difference in voxels on snow maps, how are those theater colors applied?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
McPwny
Cyborg Specialist


Joined: 29 Jan 2018

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that chunk was occupied in tibsun with some of the colors that were in the theater palettes but, as far as i know, they
never really used them and were redundant. in red alert 2, the palette simply has them as blank colors, and they
never bothered to fill them in. notice that they left in two of the brown color schemes but have very little green or blue.
you could say that westwood poorly optimized its palette
_________________
visit my moddb profile for .shp downloads and stuff

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zorbung
Soldier


Joined: 04 Jun 2021

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah I see now, the theater colors are only for SHP and voxels don't use them at all by default. I was confused because some voxels looked kinda shinier on snow maps but it was just an illusion Very Happy

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This whole thread is a really long way of saying, don't think so hard, just add custom palette and corresponding VPL support Smile
_________________
http://www.moddb.com/mods/scorched-earth-ra2-mod-with-smart-ai

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 1 [19 Posts] Mark the topic unread ::  View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum
Jump to:  
Share on TwitterShare on FacebookShare on Google+Share on DiggShare on RedditShare on PInterestShare on Del.icio.usShare on Stumble Upon
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group

[ Time: 0.1907s ][ Queries: 16 (0.0161s) ][ Debug on ]