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AA Target Acquisition - max range ?
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Overmind
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Joined: 05 May 2022

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 7:33 am    Post subject:  AA Target Acquisition - max range ? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is there a max range for AA projectiles / target acquisition ?

I'm trying to make a long range AA weapon and it seems to sometimes fire, sometimes not. I did not find out why.
Tried various things like long range variations of Patriot or Aegis weapon.

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G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is the only tag I know of that affects ranging: VHPScan=Strong

BUT warhead and ROT could play a role, being unable to target some things?

Also if you add SAM=yes to a defense, it will not target jumpjets only aircraft.

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Overmind
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Joined: 05 May 2022

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RoT is set to 1 (tested multiple values) and WH is good vs anything except structures.
Land/Naval targeting are like for the NASAM.

Last edited by Overmind on Fri Apr 28, 2023 5:29 am; edited 2 times in total

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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ROT=1 is probably not enough to hit a moving target.

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Overmind
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Joined: 05 May 2022

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry, that was for testing, back at 100.

This is the current projectile.

[ProjectileX]
Arm=2
High=yes
Shadow=no
Proximity=no
AA=yes
AG=no
CourseLockDuration=5
Image=GRAVTE
ROT=100
Scalable=yes
SubjectToCliffs=no
SubjectToElevation=no
SubjectToWalls=no

I want to test what Ranged=yes does and enable proximity.

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Overmind
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Joined: 05 May 2022

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is most strange.
Sometimes the AAs fire at max range, sometimes below their range, at about 15-18 cells cells.

Here's an example below.
The firing started at half the range of the AA waeapon.
Range is 30, the fire was opened at the point of the screenshot.



Is it possible to be something threat-assessment related ?
As in if the units don't have an attack order to be ignored ? I doubt it, but it's strange behavior.

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Overmind
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did some testing. I just put Patriot range to 100 to see what happens. Basically, it will only shoot at certain angles, most likely XY axis and 45dgr between XY. The rest seem to be dead angles.

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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AA weapon range is calculated by a dome shape over the firing point, at the short ranges & consistent aircraft flying height in vanilla RA2 it isn't that noticeable. If you increase the weapon range the dome will become stretched out & its shape more noticeable though. This means that at the edge of the weapons range it will only fire at targets that are close to the ground & then curve towards its peak above the AA weapon. The lager the range the larger the distance between the edge & when the curve intersects with the flight level of the target.

In your picture with the Kirovs they are flying over uneven ground, which adds an extra variable as the height of the ground will make the Kirovs fly higher & thus they will need to be closer to the AA weapon in order for it to fire at them too.

I discovered this targeting dome when I gave different aircraft types different flight levels & noticed that low flight aircraft would get attacked a lot more & the high flying ones would only get shot at when directly over the AA weapon, or in some cases not at all.



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Overmind
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Joined: 05 May 2022

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the details.

Makes sense why a jumpjet was attacked when spawning from factory but not after reaching its altitude.

Would putting the AA projectile at VeryHigh=yes make any difference ?

Now I'd need to find a way to determine how altitude translates into cells range. that should help with the overall adjustments.

Not sure what decreasing the jumpjet altitude would influence overall, probably make things hard to pass over structures.

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Mig Eater
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

VeryHigh= is used used for the projectile path & not the targeting.

FlightLevel/JumpjetHeight is measured in leptons, with 256 leptons = 1 cell.

To find the exact curvature the game uses though you'd need to either find someone to look into the game engine & find the formula used for the range. Or you could make a "firing range" map with lots of different targets at different heights. You can then test different weapon ranges to see what targets get hit etc.

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G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Vertical distance is approximately half the horizontal distance, so Range= will run out much sooner for high flying vehicles than low flying ones, that's all you really need to understand.

It's actually a good way to change the survivability of aircraft, even a slight change in FlightLevel could give it 2-3 cells closer safe distance, thus impact how likely it is to get to shoot on target, and how long it spends in range to be attacked.

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Overmind
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Joined: 05 May 2022

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2023 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

G-E wrote:
Vertical distance is approximately half the horizontal distance, so Range= will run out much sooner for high flying vehicles than low flying ones, that's all you really need to understand.

It's actually a good way to change the survivability of aircraft, even a slight change in FlightLevel could give it 2-3 cells closer safe distance, thus impact how likely it is to get to shoot on target, and how long it spends in range to be attacked.


I tried using gap generation for spread testing.

The lowest AA range seems to be not on horizontal/vertical or 45dgr axes, but at angles between (like ~22dgr, 67 dgr, etc).

This pic describes tests observations:


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G-E
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2023 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, because you're viewing it rotated at 45deg with a 30deg camera angle. So any line drawn vertically is about 2/3 scale, and horizontally is about 4/3 scale, whereas the along the cell grid you'd get 3/3 (NW, NE, SW, SE), but range is cell based, so it's more of an approximate.

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