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some AI stuff
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Bugsey827
Grenadier


Joined: 15 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:43 am    Post subject:  some AI stuff Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Was wondering, is there a way for different AI houses in a singleplayer campaign mission to have different TeamDelays?

I think it would be useful to have different AI send units at you at different intervals, I can think of some of my own missions where I'd use this. I've had a quick search around and couldn't find anything. Is there a workaround? All I can think of otherwise is just a trigger system to enable/disable their unit production constantly. But tbh I'd rather just do it with TeamDelays if possible.

Another thing, setting ROF= and Firepower= for different countries works fine for Skirmish games, but not for campaign. I'm talking about
Code:

[Russians]
Firepower=1.2
ROF=1.2

etc. Again I've had a quick search about but found nothing. Is there anything I can do aside from duplicating every unit I want them to build to give them slightly different stats?

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G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For missions, you can of course choose what delay to start each houses production and triggers, but not between. However, the vast majority of missions use non-generic AI events and actions, and these are easily enough set behind timed triggers...

To your second part, I don't actually know, it's not something I ever cared to try. Have you tried adding the relevant code to the countries/houses inside the map? Or what did you try?

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silverwind
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You could simulate that effect by having different houses use different techniques to speed up team building such as recruitable pool teams, secondary teamtypes, etc. You could also have some houses use techniques that slow down team building such as giving them filler teams that serve no offensive purpose, and by not letting them recruit teams. As long as you don't let all houses use all of them, you should have a good variety, especially as the mission goes on.

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E1 Elite
General


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TeamDelays is same for all AIs and Firepower doesn't work in SP maps for countries. Because of different team size and time to build etc., even in Skirmish, attacks are not at same intervals.

You can use BuildTimeUnitsMult etc. at country level. Read about it in Country Statistics in rules.

And for Easy, Normal and Difficult, it is FirePower (with a capital P) if you want to use it.

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Bugsey827
Grenadier


Joined: 15 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

G-E wrote:
For missions, you can of course choose what delay to start each houses production and triggers, but not between. However, the vast majority of missions use non-generic AI events and actions, and these are easily enough set behind timed triggers...

To your second part, I don't actually know, it's not something I ever cared to try. Have you tried adding the relevant code to the countries/houses inside the map? Or what did you try?


What did you mean by non-generic AI events & actions, with timed triggers?

For the second thing, I just added the code to both player and AI controlled countries and then tested my mission, and it made no difference. It worked fine when I did it on a skirmish map. Though it does say in the rulesmd in that section "This applies only to multiplayer games and skirmish mode.", so I wanted to know if there was a workaround or something in Ares that would give a similar effect.

I tested it with some absurd multipliers (Firepower=5.0, ROF=0.1) to make it obvious whether or not it was working. So I can say for sure that it's fine in skirmish but doesn't work for campaigns.

silverwind wrote:

You could simulate that effect by having different houses use different techniques to speed up team building such as recruitable pool teams, secondary teamtypes, etc. You could also have some houses use techniques that slow down team building such as giving them filler teams that serve no offensive purpose, and by not letting them recruit teams. As long as you don't let all houses use all of them, you should have a good variety, especially as the mission goes on.


Something like that could work to a limited extent, but the country I had in mind to use this on was only intended to send a few mixed groups of infantry which they'd be able to build no problem with or without recruitable/pool teams.

E1 Elite wrote:

TeamDelays is same for all AIs and Firepower doesn't work in SP maps for countries. Because of different team size and time to build etc., even in Skirmish, attacks are not at same intervals.

You can use BuildTimeUnitsMult etc. at country level. Read about it in Country Statistics in rules.

And for Easy, Normal and Difficult, it is FirePower (with a capital P) if you want to use it.

Yeah I've considered just playing with build time & cost multipliers to make their stuff take longer to build, but then it would also take them forever to replace units in defensive & patrol teams that I'd set to "reinforce".

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G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bugsey827 wrote:
What did you mean by non-generic AI events & actions, with timed triggers?

There are AITriggerTypes and there are Triggers, the former uses conditions/power/money/randomness to decide what to fire, the latter uses specific conditions to fire, and can have delays.

Most missions use only Triggers since they want them to be predictable, and thus control difficulty.

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Bugsey827
Grenadier


Joined: 15 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm assuming you're talking about regular map triggers? "4 Create Team...", "Recruit team members if possible or else build from factory." it says so that's the action I'm assuming you mean. I've honeslty never done it this way lol. So how does it work? Set up a team in the Teams window as normal then just set up a trigger, even just something like Elapsed Time event and use the Create Team action?

If so I think this could work for my needs. Not ideal but possible

Also I had an idea about the second thing. I was reading about Ares AttachEffect last night, AttachEffect.ROFMultiplier= and AttachEffect.FirepowerMultiplier=

I haven't used AttachEffect anythings before, but would it be possible to create a friendly fire weapon on an off map building with some really fast fire rate and range to cover the whole map? Would the AttachEffect go on the weapon's warhead in this case? Though I also don't know what I could do to stop it firing at and buffing friendly units which belonged to another country.

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G-E
Defense Minister


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, that's what I mean, look at any of the vanilla missions, it's a chain of specific AI activities based on the player crossing into zones, destroying/capturing specific structures, or building certain things. Map Triggers aren't optional, once their conditions are met they fire...

On the plus side you can make the AI build a team when you the player expand your zone of control beyond a horizontal line, or enter a region you have ringed with celltags. With the use of local variables, you can even require 4 things to be true at once to fire off a chain of AI activities, which you can't do with AITriggerTypes.

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Bugsey827
Grenadier


Joined: 15 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah the more I think about it the more it gives me some interesting ideas. It would still be nice to have different TeamDelays per country but I think setting up some of those triggers could work as a workaround on a limited scale, but still be well enough for what I had in mind.

Any word about my second thing, with the AttachEffect?

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