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 Forum index » Other Projects » Inactive Projects » Open Tiberian Sun
TSO decision making time
Moderators: Judeau
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what method should be used ?
OpenGL real-time rendering( high-end )
70%
 70%  [ 17 ]
pseudo-real-time software rendering( in-between )
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
pre-rendered( low end )
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
both( OH NOES, MY VACATION )
12%
 12%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 24

Author Message
Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject:  TSO decision making time Reply with quote

after having gone through various solutions for voxels, i've got several possible ways to do it, some are high-end real-time voxel rendering, others are far simpler, but do not allow for the same visual goodness.

The OpenGL option by far, is the most visually appealing, and would allow for a lot of extra functionality, think specularity maps, 24 bit colors, 24 bit normals, and emissiveness, however, you'll need a video card of about 2 years old or younger to run it at good FPS rates

the software rendering engine, allows for most of opengl's functionality, and fr good frame rates on poorer systems, the problem with this solution, is the fact the CPU has to carry it all, so these will not be fully real-time, and only be updated when the unit moves, the light color/brightness changes, or you just got it on-screen, this method, in my opinion, is the golden road in between, it however requires more RAM than the opengl method

and finally, like in RA2 and tiberian sun, rendering voxels into sprites during loading, this method has close to no CPU usage in real-time, and costs the most RAM, seeing as 32 orientations * 16 pitch directions * animation frames need to be saved into sprite form, which, as you can guess, is quite a bit.
another method to handle the pre-render method, is by simply re-rendering the part if pitch changes

and no, i cannot allow both software rendering and opengl rendering as options, pre-rendered and opengl, or prerendered and pseudo is possible though

ask any questions you want .


spotlighttest.rar
 Description:
also opengl, just.......bigger voxels

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 Filename:  spotlighttest.rar
 Filesize:  220.88 KB
 Downloaded:  430 Time(s)


test.rar
 Description:
this is the opengl method, as you can guess, again, not fully finished

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 Filename:  test.rar
 Filesize:  156.52 KB
 Downloaded:  420 Time(s)


special build.rar
 Description:
this is the pseudo method, though, not done yet

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 Filename:  special build.rar
 Filesize:  481.09 KB
 Downloaded:  410 Time(s)


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Last edited by Judeau on Wed May 23, 2007 10:53 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Clazzy
Karma Police


Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Location: Algae Colony On Mars

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for reference to people voting, I get a decent FPS rate with an oldish 9700 Mobility, it'll be crap on integrated cards and stuff 4 or more years old but it should be fine for most people.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, my vote goes for OpenGL. It's easier and it makes a better usage of your video card potential and provides a better image quality. The other two options are recommended if you wanna make a game for mobiles. Considering that this engine will still take some time to be finished, mobiles will be much better and probably support OpenGL better, even if it is OpenGL ES...

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Kiith-Sa
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely OpenGL.
When this is finished, almost everyone will have good enough 3D card.
Altough I'd also like an SW renderer as an option.
But if you make it expandable and OS, someone might write additional SW renderer if you don't want to write both (of course I don't mean myself:P).
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m666
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OpenGL, Judeau. It's working quite well here, on mah weaker graphics card. It'll work perfect for those on the beast cards, and it should be good for those on anything weaker than mine.
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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here, a performance test
extract to a directory, run, keep on for 10 seconds or longer, and then post the contents of log.txt here
if your average frames / second rating exceeds 40, your computer is most probably going to be able to handle real-time voxel rendering in opengl


voxel-GL.rar
 Description:

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 Filename:  voxel-GL.rar
 Filesize:  177.74 KB
 Downloaded:  424 Time(s)


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ORCACommander
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: Flying into hostile territory

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its looking awesome here are my results for 10+ seconds


log.txt
 Description:
my stats

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 Filename:  log.txt
 Filesize:  1.17 KB
 Downloaded:  251 Time(s)


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Kiith-Sa
Rocket Cyborg


Joined: 26 Oct 2004

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the tests on my comp .
The performance test uses same method as test.rar, right? The spotlight one looks nice but is rather slow, altough that might be becouse of the voxels' size.

Anyway, considering you're gonna also have tons of other objects and terrain to render, not to mention the game logic, I think you still need to speed it up. Maybe TS/RA2 style prerendering would be faster in the end,
it didn't waste my old 192 MB of RAM, and today people have much more of it, considering you have 60 OGL Mammoths on some 60 FPS on my Radeon X1600+Athlon 3200, while you could have similar speeds in TS on 1 GHZ or something like that.


results.txt
 Description:
(Athlon 64 3200+, Radeon X1600 Pro, 512 MB DDR I)

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 Filename:  results.txt
 Filesize:  3.02 KB
 Downloaded:  244 Time(s)


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Mortecha
Commander


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It ran flawlessly. I guess ill be behind the idea of using OpenGL as well


log.txt
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 Filename:  log.txt
 Filesize:  1.17 KB
 Downloaded:  224 Time(s)


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DonutArnold
General


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It ran like a dream. Btw, I think that those voxels needs more life with their colours...


log.txt
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 Filename:  log.txt
 Filesize:  1.17 KB
 Downloaded:  234 Time(s)


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IVI
Commander


Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Location: Feilubin

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it ran perfectly. very promising owrk Judeau, I am looking forward to the progress of your project Smile


log.txt
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 Filename:  log.txt
 Filesize:  1.17 KB
 Downloaded:  202 Time(s)


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Judeau
Commander


Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IVI wrote:
it ran perfectly. very promising owrk Judeau, I am looking forward to the progress of your project Smile


thanks

however, http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15012

i'm hoping to reveal a good terrain engine during june
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Lightstorm
Light Infantry


Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Location: Dead and back Commander...Dead and back

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why bother with voxels at all? someone should just make a program that turns voxels into 3d renders, we can already turn renders into voxels, why not voxels to renders?

or better yet we use alternating non isometric sprites! lol j/k


log.txt
 Description:
I'm pretty sure i can handle it, but am i reading the right thing?

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 Filename:  log.txt
 Filesize:  1.17 KB
 Downloaded:  199 Time(s)


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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightstorm wrote:
why bother with voxels at all? someone should just make a program that turns voxels into 3d renders, we can already turn renders into voxels, why not voxels to renders?

or better yet we use alternating non isometric sprites! lol j/k


PLEASE, look at the date of the post before you.
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DeathRay2K
Commander


Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turning models into voxels, you lose all the information except, to some extent, the normals.
The only way to convert a voxel into a model, then, is to extrapolate the data from the shape of the voxel. In the simplest form, a voxel to model converter would simply make each voxel a vertex and attach adjacent vertices. The problem with this is that it would not look very good, and it would probably have problems that would need fixing in a model editor.
The ideal solution would analyze the voxel for curves and flat surfaces, and then use the analysis to recreate it in 3D. The problem with this is that it would be a lot of work, and may still need fixing.

There is no real reason for there not to be a voxel to 3D converter, its just that its more work than its worth.
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Lightstorm
Light Infantry


Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Location: Dead and back Commander...Dead and back

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay i feel stupid now, for some reason i thought that post was recent
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Judeau
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Joined: 28 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightstorm wrote:
okay i feel stupid now, for some reason i thought that post was recent


no problem, have a look around #Tongue
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Dupl3xxx
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere south of the north pole

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did this get under my radar, this rules!

Note, this was on vista, with a nVidia 7100 with two screens at 1280x1024, so I am amazed!


log.txt
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 Filename:  log.txt
 Filesize:  1.17 KB
 Downloaded:  170 Time(s)


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