Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Location: My avatar pretty much gives it away...
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:24 pm Post subject:
C&C 3: Retaliation [C&C 3]
You might remember me posting a few pics of some tanks for my mod last year, but I've been quite silent since then.
Due to many projects and exams related to my studies, I haven't had much time to work on my mod, but I've been able to complete a couple of models.
Now, however I have more time, but I need some motivation and fresh ideas, so I decided to just announce the mod now, and see where it goes.
Now, about the mod: Retaliation will be an enhancement/expansion mod, in other words, I intend to fix all the small (and big) things in the game that I'm not happy with, as well as adding new units and upgrades for all sides. It also means that I don't intend to make an own story for this mod.
The things i wish to change from the original game include everything from unnecessarilly unrealistic (weapon) effects, inconsistent damage of speciffic weapon types and unrealistic weapon damages to remaking explosion effects and unit models.
I will do a little work on balancing as well, but I know from experience that such things take too much time, and often ends up worse than it was to begin with.
Three things I plan on (and have begun) doing, is increasing weapon damage and reload time for most weapons, making them feel more powerful, while dealing the same amount of damage over time as before. This will also make many tactics, such as hit-and-run more effecive.
The second balancing operation I have planned, is increasing the might of base defenses, bringing it closer to the other C&C games.
The third important change I plan on doing, is reducing the amount of stealth detectors in the game. Some work will be needed to balance this.
Now over to the part that I hope you will find most interesting: The screenshots. Note that my current logo has been added to all the pictures, and they have been scaled down from 1680x1050 to 1440x900.
Edit: By request, the screenshots have been replaced with tumbnails; click them to see the original pictures.
First off, a screenshot that only show some minor changes: The black hand soldiers have been retextured, and now have black capes and a darker helmet.
The overall shape of the flame tank has been modified, and the tracks have been remodeled. The tracks will now also follow the terrain, the way seen on the mammoth tank.
Now for something a bit more interesting: My new Nod missile tank. I haven't decided on the name yet, but my working name is Viper. The Viper tank is a medium tank, it will be available at tier 2, and while strong vs. vehicles and buildings, one of the main roles will be late game anti-air support.
It will initially be slower and heavier armored than the Scorpion tank, however the lack of available upgrades will make it weaker vs. ground units late game than its counterparts. As you can see from the screenshot below, the ingame model is not much larger than the Scorpion, something I might change to make it look heavier than the Scorpion.
The next screenshot shows one of the many fixes I will do to ingame units: For being a super-heavy arillery, the firing sound and impact explosions of the Juggernaught are quite dull. I therefore made new firing sounds, and added new, powerful explosion effects on impact.
In addition, I increased weapon damage and reload time by 50%, making it appear more poweful, while dealing the same amount of damage over a period of time.
Up next: Another new Nod unit: The Vulture MLRS. The speed and light armor of this hovering artillery piece makes it ideal for hit-and run attacks. It does, however, have quite long minimum range, and needs a short time to prepare for launch. This makes scouting crucial, and should it run into enemy resistance, its only hope will be running away.
While ideally suited for hit-and-run tactics, the scattering of the missiles makes it less suited for combination with short range units like the flame tank or the black hand.
The next picture shows my modified, enhanced mammoth tank model. The sizes and shapes of all sections of the tank have been modified, and the tracks and rocket launchers have been completely remade. Changes will be done regarding the balancing of this unit, but the details have not yet been worked out.
The following screenshot shows the two tanks I posted screenshots of last year: The new Predator tank and the Cyclone Anti-Aircraft tank. The predator is now considered a heavy tank, and has stronger armor, higher cost and higher weapon damage and reload time. In addition, it can now be (individually) upgraded with a rocket pod, significantly increasing its damage output in early games. In contrast to EA models like the Pitbull, the rockets will not still be in the rocket pod after being launched.
As for the Cyclone, it will be available at tier 2, and will initially only be able to target airborne targets. An upgrade will be available, making it able to drown soft ground targets in a shower of shells. It is quite heavilly armored, and will be able to detect stealthed units. From the screenshot, it looks as if it only fires from one barrel; this is because I had to give the barrels seperate weapons with interleaved firing in order to make the weapon tracers work correctly. Ingame, the muzzle flash will swich quickly between the barrels, making it look as if both fire at once.
Another picture showing the Viper tank and the Vulture MLRS
Another picture showing the new Predator and Mammoth tanks, as well as the Cyclone.
For now, the only help I could use with the mod, is ideas to new units and upgrades. Since I'm a perfectionist, and because the mod is this far from complete, I don't really want any help modeling or skinning at the moment. I have some more unfinished models, and I've also been able to make some cool effects to the superweapons, but I won't show them before they're completely done. I'm still quite new to modeling and skinning, so please don't expect me to give any big uptate too soon. If requested, I can post more screenshots of the units seen above. Please feel free to give suggestions to improvements of the things I have shown or suggestions to new units or upgrades (good concept sketches are invaluable, and would be much appreciated ). _________________ Last edited by Chronosheep on Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:52 pm; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
The basic idea reminds me somehow of my own mod (you did a lot of things I originally planed) ^^
But very nice work, I love these new models, especially those for GDI.
Allthough I dont like the idea of a hover MRLS for Nods, it would fit better for GDI
Nevertheless, great work! _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Location: My avatar pretty much gives it away...
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject:
Well, my original plan was to add some hover units for GDI, but with the new hovering units coming in KW, I decided to make a Nod hover unit instead.
Since Nod rely heavilly on fast and lightly armored units for hit-and-run tactics, and the main GDI strategy revolves around heavilly armored units, I think the concept of hovering units fit Nod better. Based on the C&C canon, it would of course fit better for GDI, but if Nod stole mech technology from GDI, why couldn't they steal hover technology as well ? Also keep in mind that the Hover MLRS from TS was as short range assault unit, while this is an artillery piece.
Anyway, I can promise you that I'm not planning any other hovering units for Nod . _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject:
Wow...amazing, to say the least...A must get as far as I see. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Location: My avatar pretty much gives it away...
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject:
I don't like the idea of making a pure balance mod, I personally think there's too many of them out there already. However, I've noticed that I and Stygs have many of the same ideas, and I like many of the ideas he has presented in his mod, so I suppose the idea of a cooperation wouldn't be completely out of the question. But as I said, the mod would have to do more than just balancing. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Location: My avatar pretty much gives it away...
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject:
Replaced the original screenshots with thumbnails, click them to see the original pictures.
The feedback so far has been positive, but there hasen't been very much of it. Is there a low general interest for my mod, or doesen't people have anything to say about it? Please feel free to give suggestions to new units etc. or feedback to the things and ideas I've presented so far. I can handle negative feedback as well, as long as it's constructive. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
ah..it happens. Well I like everything I see here..I don't own C&C3 yet so its hard to see the context of changes you have when I haven't played the original. >__<
Although with that said there are some things that would be nice to see some more Tiberian critters. :3.
The capes are cute. I do love Nod's fashion sense. xD
I do like the new missile units, reminiscent of the long forgotten SSM. but the chassis for the Viper Tank doesn't seem to fit. Also the turret reminds me of a tarantula...a nice tangent for names. _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:59 am Post subject:
I think not many ppl play TW yet, or they don't want any mods for it, because they haven't finished the original game (like me, I still must beat a Brutal army in skirmish ) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Location: My avatar pretty much gives it away...
Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject:
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ah..it happens. Well I like everything I see here..I don't own C&C3 yet so its hard to see the context of changes you have when I haven't played the original. >__<
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I think not many ppl play TW yet, or they don't want any mods for it, because they haven't finished the original game (like me, I still must beat a Brutal army in skirmish )
Ah, that makes sense... I almost forgot this is mainly a TS/RA2 modding forum , and C&C 3 is still a quite new game. It's good to see that you give feedback anyway.
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Although with that said there are some things that would be nice to see some more Tiberian critters. :3.
I've allways wondered where all the tiberium critters and "plants" went (and where are all the civilians?)... I'll see what I can do about it.
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chassis for the Viper Tank doesn't seem to fit
Could you be a bit more speciffic? What is it it doesen't fit to? To Nod's unit style or the turret of the tank?
Considering the time it took to make it, it's not very likely that I'll do major changes, but if you can point out what you don't like about it, I'll look into it, and perhaps change it if I agree with your opinion.
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Also the turret reminds me of a tarantula...a nice tangent for names.
Hmm... I think maybe the name Tatantula fits better for this tank than Viper . I still haven't given it a final name, so it's not unlikely to be changed. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Interesting mod, I'm mainly modding RA2/YR and I guess main reason for lack of comments is like others said and also because most of us found the whole 3d model, 3d skin thing a nightmare to understand.
I remember trying to get into Generals modding and that was a no lol.
Still like I said before interesting mod and good luck with it. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Holy crap thats a huge spider! But uh for the "viper"tank I do not believe the turret suits the chassis very well. I don't know what Id do to make it better though. Regardless the work you have done is quite impressive on the units. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Location: My avatar pretty much gives it away...
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:50 am Post subject:
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i like the look of this mod any updates mate
As I said in the initial post, the progress is quite slow, but I think I'll have an update ready by next weekend. I've applied new shaders to many units, and done many minor modificatons that weren't worth making an update about. I also used alot of time on the tiberium fiend project , so except for the tiberium fiend, I don't have that much to show off just yet.
I'm currently working on texturing a new unit, and I will make an update as soon as it's done. I personally think it's coming along nicely, so I hope you will like it.
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Holy crap thats a huge spider! But uh for the "viper"tank I do not believe the turret suits the chassis very well. I don't know what Id do to make it better though. Regardless the work you have done is quite impressive on the units.
Hmm... you're not the first person to say so, but I simply don't know what to do about it. In the next update, you will see that I moved the turret a bit forward, and applied a new shader and darker textures to the tracks... you may like it better than you do now. If not, I guess I could always use the turret and chassis for two different units, but doing so would require me to make up new concepts for those units (and of course model them). I hardly have enough time to work on the concepts I already have, so I'm afraid it won't be my first priority . _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Idea: a kind of orca/A10 aircraft, not a battle fortress/orca cross like that KW unit but a pure Tank killer, something that makes you think, oh ****! there goes my tank column as it swoops in between the hills, drops cluster munitions/ uses a big ass rotary cannon then zooms off dodging or bearing the brunt of SAMs seemingly unaffected, you could make it cost loads but it' really put the squeeze on any vehicle heavy players... _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Location: My avatar pretty much gives it away...
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject:
Sorry for the delay... my internet connection has been down lately, and I've been away visiting my family, so I haven't been able to make the update earlier.
First of all:
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Idea: a kind of orca/A10 aircraft, not a battle fortress/orca cross like that KW unit but a pure Tank killer, something that makes you think, oh ****! there goes my tank column as it swoops in between the hills, drops cluster munitions/ uses a big ass rotary cannon then zooms off dodging or bearing the brunt of SAMs seemingly unaffected, you could make it cost loads but it' really put the squeeze on any vehicle heavy players...
I've actually been thinking about reintroducing a heavilly modified/modernized version of the A10 Thunderbolt (I even made a concept drawing ), but I was only planning on replacing the orca bomber or something like that... I like the idea of making it a pure tank- (or perhaps unit-) killer, but I'm not sure how I should balance it. I might make it some day, but I already have a list of models I want to make or complete.
Now back on subject: The mod will be moved to Kane's Wrath as soon as EA releases a new mod SDK. If EA should decide not to do so, I'm afraid I may abandon this project, but lets just hope that doesen't happen.
The work on the mod may be slowed down a bit the next weeks because of the release of KW.
Regarding the update: Because of the recent delays, the update will not be as big as I planned. I may post some more in a few days, but this depends on how much time I spend playing Kane's Wrath .
I have now completed the new model; click the thumbnails below for larger pics. Since I remade the Predator, I thought it would be a shame to completely remove the old model from the game, so I decided to reuse the front tracks on a new model. This unit is a successor of the TS disruptor, and will be armed with a similiar ressonance based sonic weapon. By using two reflectors, this unit utilizes interference to minimize the damage done to units standing between itself and its target without reducing the damage done to the target. I haven't really decided on the name yet... I could always just name it Disruptor mk. II, but this could cause confusion since there's already a building named Disruption tower ingame...
I'm not completely happy with the unit just yet... I'm just not completely sure what needs to be fixed... Any feedback or comments will be greatly appreciated .
As you may see on the pictures I'm now using the new shaders made by Asuka. You can read about some of them here.
I will upload pictures of how the Nod units look with these shaders later (as well as how the "Viper" tank looks with after I changed the position of the turret).
I also added some cool effects to the superweapons, but I need a video recording program to show them... any tips on a good free one? I know Fraps is good, but I have to pay if I want to record more than 30 secs at a time... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Location: My avatar pretty much gives it away...
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject:
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Awesome! It looks good.
I can't wait to see what else you have to show.
Your a bloody good 3D Artist.
Thanks
As I said, I'm uploading pictures of the Nod units with the new shaders applied. Note that I applied normal mapped shaders to the tracks of ALL tracked vehicles (both GDI and Nod).
The work on C&C 3: Retaliation is currently on hold, due to the uncertainty regarding the release of a mod SDK for KW. Sure, I could just keep at modding TW, but I guess it would be kinda pointless to make a partial conversion to TW when you get alot more new units and features by simply playing KW. Without a mod SDK, I would instead of improving KW be competing with it . The second EA announces a new SDK, I will resume the work. If this doesen't happen, I guess it will be the death sentence for this project...
Anyway, here's the promised pics:
Aside from the changes to the tracks, you may notice that I've done some minor changes to the texture of the Scorpion tank and moved its turret slightly back.
I think I've found a way to fix the "Viper" tank, but this will not be done until I know the future of the mod.
Any comments would be appreciated _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Niiice.
You could make the A10/A10 substitute cost a lot and be crud against buildings, or very vulnerable to a specific AA or fighter units (if there are any, I haven't played C&C3, I know most of the units and stuff but I don't think 1 gig of ram and a 3.2 single core is enough...)
Or... it could be hellishly slow, so unless you keep your opponent busy so he doesn't have time to look for them, he can run away/mass AA at the right place. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
I think you should make the disruptor bigger and use it as an replacement for the Steel Talon mammoth (if EA ever released a KW SDK :/ ) _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Location: My avatar pretty much gives it away...
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject:
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I think you should make the disruptor bigger and use it as an replacement for the Steel Talon mammoth (if EA ever released a KW SDK :/ )
That's actually a really good idea . The new disruptor is supposed to be heavilly armored, so it could work as a somewhat less armored, but heavier armed mammoth tank. The only problem is that the railgun accelerator support power would become a bit less useful, so I'd eighter have to do some changes to it or add a new railgun-based unit.
I've been working on plans for where to put my new units in KW, as well as working on ideas for other new KW units. One of the things I've thinking about, is replacing the Steel Talon MARV with a Mammoth Mk. IV (improved Mk. II walker). I already have a WIP mk. II model that I made months ago, so with a bit more work and modifications to the model, it would be ready for texturing and rigging... But with the current situation, I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens to the SDK before I get to work
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I don't think 1 gig of ram and a 3.2 single core is enough...
Not enough for the highest graphic settings I guess, but (depending on your graphics card) it should be more than enough for medium settings. I played C&C 3 TW (without KW) on medium settings on my old computer with 512 MB ram and a 2.2 single core... but as I said, it depends on your graphics card (and your operating system) _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Vista, I think my Graphics card is a 256, but it could be a 512.
Yeah, mammoth MkIV would be cool, remember all 3 weapons systems though:
Railguns (sides)
SAM's (on top of railguns in little turrets)
autocannons(Under Chin, not in TS ingame but in the FMVs) _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
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C&C 3: Retaliation [C&C 3]
).
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, and C&C 3 is still a quite new game. It's good to see that you give feedback anyway.
. I still haven't given it a final name, so it's not unlikely to be changed.
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