Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: 3,000,000 years away from Earth
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject:
It looks like the words "Chrono Prison" in white against gray background, if I remember correctly.
Some other things that were cut or not implemented:
C&C
- a special "squished infantry" sprite that was never used
- certain sounds, including alternate pistol shots, a pistol being reloaded, SAM site rotating sound and some more (gotta compile a list of them)
Red Alert
- both Chronosphere and Iron Curtain have unused "activated" animations (that would play when you use the respective superweapons); in fact, the "damaged Chronosphere animation is originally its "activated" animation
- there are also some sounds that were not used _________________ I am MrFlibble. Just MrFlibble. From the Potato King to Uncle Arnie to MrFlibble. I am his right hand. FED2k Forums - Westwood Studios' Dune games and more QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 24 May 2004 Location: Flanders (Be) Posts:300000001
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:12 am Post subject:
Clarkson?
Really, Carno, with all your name & avatar changes I only recognise you from your User ID 1199....
MrFlibble wrote:
C&C
- a special "squished infantry" sprite that was never used
omg, I forgot that, lol... Reaperrr told me how to activate that. It's pretty buggy though:
the squish mark is an object that only infantry could walk on, and which could be destroyed by force-firing on it. Oddly enough, flame weapons couldn't destroy it. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: 3,000,000 years away from Earth
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject:
Destiny wrote:
Hmm...I've never personally seen the Helicarrier at work yet...
It looks like a small floating helipad that can host up to 5 (maybe more, I don't remember) attack choppers and launch them at any target anywhere on the map. Meaning you can easily overwhelm you enemy with loads of choppers that are located somewhere in the backside of your base (provided there's a body of water there). The choppers will return to re-arm, which takes a while, but the good stuff is that you spare power and buildable space that would be needed for regular helipads. So it's pretty overpowered IMHO.
slavikcc wrote:
-Await (never in the game files despite the song name and length)
-Afterlife (found in the game files but never used)
AFAIK these two are actually one song, and it gets enabled in Aftermath (possibly Counterstrike as well). _________________ I am MrFlibble. Just MrFlibble. From the Potato King to Uncle Arnie to MrFlibble. I am his right hand. FED2k Forums - Westwood Studios' Dune games and more QUICK_EDIT
The Helicarrier is great (I use it in my personal Redalert1 Mod)(the one I worked on before my personal TS mod)(Both mods have the same theme) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 24 May 2004 Location: Flanders (Be) Posts:300000001
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:27 am Post subject:
MrFlibble wrote:
slavikcc wrote:
-Await (never in the game files despite the song name and length)
-Afterlife (found in the game files but never used)
AFAIK these two are actually one song, and it gets enabled in Aftermath (possibly Counterstrike as well).
The file appears twice: await_r.aud on the original RA CDs, and await.aud on the CS and AM CDs. The two are exactly the same though.
I don't really understand why they changed the name to "await.aud"... must be to actually keep it an "expansion track", and deny people the pleasure of hearing it ingame in normal RA missions, even after having installed the expansion pack.
I'm just wondering where the name "Afterlife" comes from.. both the filename and the strings file say "Await"... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:44 am Post subject:
Hmm, RA2. Give 'Em Hell, C&C In The House, Probing, and Ready The Army. Frank said that Give 'em Hell is Hell March 2, though...but, it as its own seperate string value, so I don't think it is. _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Location: North America Posts: You cannot comprehend...
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject:
I've heard it, found it in a mix file, it's a shortened version of the HM2, with added dialogue - some guy, his voice distorted repeats the words:"Give 'em hell! Give 'em hell!" I think its a modified voice clip from RA1, just thrown in with HM2. _________________ Destroy to create. All for the hunt to dominate!
-Await (never in the game files despite the song name and length)
-Afterlife (found in the game files but never used)
AFAIK these two are actually one song, and it gets enabled in Aftermath (possibly Counterstrike as well).
The file appears twice: await_r.aud on the original RA CDs, and await.aud on the CS and AM CDs. The two are exactly the same though.
I don't really understand why they changed the name to "await.aud"... must be to actually keep it an "expansion track", and deny people the pleasure of hearing it ingame in normal RA missions, even after having installed the expansion pack.
I'm just wondering where the name "Afterlife" comes from.. both the filename and the strings file say "Await"...
Actually, I've e-mailed Frank Klepacki about "Await" and "Afterlife" and they're indeed separate songs, not the "same" ones. Unfortunately, he cannot find the master tapes for the two songs.
TD has quite a few unused songs in the MIX files, from the MS-DOS version. I'll write down exactly what I can remember:
Die!! (there exists a vocal version of the song but Frank doesn't want anyone to listen to it)
Heartbreak
Reaching Out
Enemies to be Feared
Airstrike (the song is played in the GDI ending credits but the AUD file is in there)
Times (by I AM, Klepacki's band)
variants of AOI, Enemies to be Feared, Looks like Trouble, Great Shot!
Nod Score Theme
Nod Map Theme
Ride of the Valkyries (originally used as a placeholder track)
Untamed Lands (unless someone activated the -funpark command line to play the dinosaur missions)
C&C 80's Mix (found only in the Covert Ops add-on) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: 3,000,000 years away from Earth
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject:
Gosho wrote:
I'm wondering, can someone upload Times and all the TD songs somewhere?
You can listen to 'em all (well, almost all) in high quality on Frank's site. Unused songs are in the "Songs of the Month" section. No Afterlife or Heartbreak though. By the way, an official preview screenshot of C&C is called HEARTBK.GIF (it shows the GDI aircraft carrier from the intro movie) - do you think there's any connection with the track?
As for Give 'Em Hell, I know there's and "alternate" version of HM2 in AUD format in one of the MIXes, in which there are some additional speech samples which sound like "give 'em hell" (if it's really Von Esling from RA1, then his voice is somehow altered/distorted though) somewhere in the middle of the song.
I've also found that two sound files are mentioned in C&C:TD executable but are absent from the game files, namely 2DANGR1(.V##) and NEGATV1(.V##). The second is apparently the "Negative!" unit response (one version of it is used in the Theme Pack that came with C&C95), and the first one is most probably "Too dangerous!" I wonder in what situations such speech could be used... _________________ I am MrFlibble. Just MrFlibble. From the Potato King to Uncle Arnie to MrFlibble. I am his right hand. FED2k Forums - Westwood Studios' Dune games and more QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Aug 2004 Location: DAS BOOT IM DER OSTSEE
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject:
Perhaps units had a fear type thing. Units that were 'afraid' would say Negative or Too Dangerous, and not move? _________________ PPM's Reichstrollfuherer, 236th Trollenparties brigade. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 24 May 2004 Location: Flanders (Be) Posts:300000001
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject:
slavikcc wrote:
Untamed Lands (unless someone activated the -funpark command line to play the dinosaur missions)
1. it's "funpark" without the '-'
2. The DOS 1.22 patch activates that track
3. Since C&C95 is a port of DOS version 1.22, it has the track in its playlist, with no addons or codes needed.
4. It's "Untamed Land", without S. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: 3,000,000 years away from Earth
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject:
Clarkson wrote:
Perhaps units had a fear type thing. Units that were 'afraid' would say Negative or Too Dangerous, and not move?
Perhaps the devs were going to implement some kind of a threat assessment module in unit AI... But that'd be too cool for a 1995 game
I've been browsing through Sole Survivor files yesterday and noticed that the icons are not all the same as those in C&C95. In fact, three icons are different. Here they are (Sole Survivor versions to the left, C&C95 ones to the right):
The most noteworthy one is the Advanced Guard Tower icon, which was heavily edited: the rocks on the background were removed, and the tower itself got a bluish outline, since on the older icon it blends with the similarly-colored background. _________________ I am MrFlibble. Just MrFlibble. From the Potato King to Uncle Arnie to MrFlibble. I am his right hand. FED2k Forums - Westwood Studios' Dune games and more QUICK_EDIT
I just got a reply back from Eric Gooch about the scenes and this is what he says...
"About the "missing" cut scenes, yes some of those sound familiar. I don't think those were rendered by me though. Most of what I worked on ended up in the game. Also, it's quite possible that there are others besides those you mentioned that were created but not used.
The same is probably true for RA2. It's not unusual for scenes to get cut after the fact, for any number of reasons. (Just like all the film that ends up on the cutting room floor from movies).
Unfortunately, all of that is probably history now...I don't know of anybody that's put together an archive of any kind that has lost footage from the games."
It looks like I might have to hunt down for other former Westwood employees around who worked on the C&C series. I wish I can find a proper way to contact Louis Castle, Brett Sperry, Eric Yeo, Adam Isgreen, Joseph Bostic, and many others via e-mail or something... I do know that Bostic and Isgreen are working for Petroglyph, so I'll have to dig around and find a way to contact them. All of the C&C unused and cut ideas is really fascinating to me.
Kevin Becquet is another CG producer who did the C&C series and he's working in Hollywood now. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: 3,000,000 years away from Earth
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject:
slavikcc, it'll be very cool if you find some more rare C&C related material
Have we mentioned the "hand-to-hand combat" sprites for infantry in TD and RA1? I forgot if the developers really wanted to implement hand-to-hand infantry combat, or it was done just for fun..? _________________ I am MrFlibble. Just MrFlibble. From the Potato King to Uncle Arnie to MrFlibble. I am his right hand. FED2k Forums - Westwood Studios' Dune games and more QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 24 May 2004 Location: Flanders (Be) Posts:300000001
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:57 am Post subject:
well, I dunno. If you got a GUN, surely you won't put it down to whack the other guy with your fists? If anyone would do that to me in a war, I'd just blow his head off -_-
But yes, the fact every single infantry unit had them sure seems to indicate that they were meant to be implemented.
C&C1 also has a hidden civilian building called The Studio, which is an accurate reproduction of the old WW Studios building in Las Vegas
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: 3,000,000 years away from Earth
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject:
Has anyone been able to find the colored 3D renders from TD that were later used both in the manual and for the C&C95 icons? I think one or two are available on the net, (the colored ones, that is), but that's all. It'd be also nice to have the renders from RA that became the sidebar icons.
There are, of course, some very nice recolors made by Nyerguds, but that's not the same
BTW, am I right that all those were made by Eric Gooch? _________________ I am MrFlibble. Just MrFlibble. From the Potato King to Uncle Arnie to MrFlibble. I am his right hand. FED2k Forums - Westwood Studios' Dune games and more QUICK_EDIT
With the whole C&C universe that Westwood envisioned, I won't be too surprised if they created the C&C "bible" that gang created. I'd love to get my hands on such a document but that would require me to get in touch directly with the producers, who I'm pretty sure are quite too busy to deal with a puny C&C fan who has a huge curiosity in the series.
Oh, and I emailed Kevin Bacquet and got the reply regarding some stuff about RA1:
"I think what your talking about is a teaser that was done before I started working there, Felix Kupis and Gooch did that in lightwave. It might have been mostly Felix actually.
I did most of the live action compositing in the game itself using Flame.
That teaser is fantastic, he even modeled the shell casings flying out of the gun. A fun thing to do if you can get a high enough resolution copy of it is read the words on the screen, and also one of the screens that is shot out has a picture of an artist from Westwood that Felix didn't get along with.
Its always great to hear from a fan of the c&c games."
I also found Brett Sperry's website at www.brettsperry.com. I've already e-mailed Brett Sperry, which I hope he'll reply to me. Adam Isgreen, as some may know, is no longer working with Petroglyph Games and he has a blog (http://obscured-view.com/), but I cannot find his e-mail address or a way to contact him. I'll see if I can dig around to contact other former Westwood employees. QUICK_EDIT
Hi guys, I've created my own weblog dedicated to this topic on hand. It's at http://cncrevealed.wordpress.com/ and I've created my first entry, which is on Tiberium Dawn music! Take a look at my blog at http://cncrevealed.wordpress.com/ and give me any suggestions or details of it. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: 3,000,000 years away from Earth
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject:
This is very cool Thanks a lot for all the research you're doing, and keep up the good work! I've always thought the C&C community lacks a comprehensive source for all things that were left behind the scenes in game development, and now we're on our track to getting one. Great! _________________ I am MrFlibble. Just MrFlibble. From the Potato King to Uncle Arnie to MrFlibble. I am his right hand. FED2k Forums - Westwood Studios' Dune games and more QUICK_EDIT
Hi guys, I've created my own weblog dedicated to this topic on hand. It's at http://cncrevealed.wordpress.com/ and I've created my first entry, which is on Tiberium Dawn music! Take a look at my blog at http://cncrevealed.wordpress.com/ and give me any suggestions or details of it.
C&C: Tiberian Dawn _________________
Westwood Studios forever! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 24 May 2004 Location: Flanders (Be) Posts:300000001
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject:
Slavikcc, I gave some notes on your C&C music entry in the blog.
Ickus wrote:
the studio? what building is that? also what is the Arcology building? It just look so weird. xD
Clarkson wrote:
Email him about Give Em Hell, wouldya?
Hmm... I DO know that the Hell March remix featured in Sole Survivor contains the words "Give Em Hell!" (around 2:20). But it contains an entire assortment of voices from the RA1 FMVs. _________________ Last edited by Nyerguds on Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:49 pm; edited 3 times in total QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 19 May 2008 Location: Scotland, starting a Revolution Cameo: metricon. Posts:???
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject:
aparently when westwood was tacken over by thay had started a ra renagade game , had started an other expansion pack for tiberian sun and were planning an expansion for red alert 2 and an other one for tiberian sun
(if only thay were compleated) _________________ Creator of TS:BoB and some other things that might be good when finnished. QUICK_EDIT
If also a little familiar with the Renegade 2 they were developing. I think it was set in the RA2 Universe and it featured vehicles from the allies and soviets. I remember seeing the finished PT icons somewhere for these vehicles. Apparently they Also included the hind and the light tank from RA1.
But i can't remember that website. Try googling "renegade 2 models".
Might you or anyone else know this website by any chance?
Edit: So Westwood was developing a second set of expansion packs for both games? Any idea what these were about? QUICK_EDIT
lemme guess:
TS: GDI and Nod want to kill each other more, possibly with some scrin trying to rule the world and harvest it or something.
YR: More Alied-soviet fighting, maybe the meteor hits and it starts to follow on to TD... _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
aparently when westwood was tacken over by thay had started a ra renagade game , had started an other expansion pack for tiberian sun and were planning an expansion for red alert 2 and an other one for tiberian sun
(if only thay were compleated)
There was only one expansion for TS, which was going to change The Forgotten into a fully playable faction. Scrin was also going to play a lot bigger part in TS.
About the expansion packs for Red Alert 2...Yuri's Revenge has always been there. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 19 May 2008 Location: Scotland, starting a Revolution Cameo: metricon. Posts:???
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject:
all i know is that thay were planed and the ra2 expansions could have been a folder of concept art and notes or a commpleated mod for all i know
and with the sorry your right about the ts expansion (i miss read it)
there was a ra renagade that was scraped befor the take over because the liked the idea of a ra2 renagade
(if only thay were compleated)
_________________ Creator of TS:BoB and some other things that might be good when finnished. QUICK_EDIT
ID 0634F4D7 Helicopter rotor sound
ID 81D80B0C Helicopter rotor sound
ID D361F5EC Unidentified bleeping sound
BOMB1.AUD Building half damaged
COUNTER1.AUD Counter sound
GUN19.AUD Rapid-fire machinegun
GUN5.AUD Another rapid-fire machinegun
GUNCLIP1.AUD Handgun reload
HVYGUN10.AUD Heavy gun firing
MTHANKS1.AUD Dr.Moebius: "Thank you!"
NUYELL10.AUD Infantry death scream
NUYELL11.AUD Infantry death scream
NUYELL12.AUD Infantry death scream
NUYELL6.AUD Infantry death scream
NUYELL7.AUD Infantry death scream
OVEROUT.V01 Infantry: "Over and out"
OVEROUT.V03 Infantry: "Over and out"
RITAWAY.V01 Infantry: "Right away sir!"*
RITAWAY.V03 Infantry: "Right away sir!"*
SAMMOTR2.AUD SAM site motor (?)
SFX4.AUD Another unidinetified bleeping sound
SIDBAR1C.AUD Sidebar related sounds
SIDBAR2C.AUD Sidebar related sounds
TONE2.AUD Some more unidentified sounds
TONE5.AUD
TOSS1.AUD Grenade throw (?)**
TREEBRN1.AUD Tree on fire
TURRFIR5.AUD Gun turret fire
XPLOBIG7.AUD Huge explosion
XPLODE.AUD Explosion
* Note: These files are not missing from the game archive, but they don't appear in the game because their name is misspelled as RITWAWA in the game executable.
** Note: this file is listed as TOSS in the game executable.
Plus, there are a few sound files that are still present in the game archives, but I have never heard them in game. I'm not sure if they're all really unused though. _________________ I am MrFlibble. Just MrFlibble. From the Potato King to Uncle Arnie to MrFlibble. I am his right hand. FED2k Forums - Westwood Studios' Dune games and more QUICK_EDIT
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