Well RA3 is meant to be silly. It's meant to be silly in the same way that TF2 is meant to be inherently silly. In the same way that its very predecessor, RA2 was meant to be silly.
btw the Asahi Teikoku did have technological handwavium. Consider all of their units which are more sophisticated than the likes of what Nod has in C&C 3 and C&C 4. Their stuff is pretty much decades if not centuries in advance. I mean... Nod needs an entire mech arm to accommodate a laser on a mech (Avatar). The Japs can fit 2 lasers in the eyes of a mech's HEAD _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Okay, first things first; calm down. I'm not trying to force people into how I feel, and neither am I being needlessly aggressive. I understand that others have different views to my own; all I'm asking is for people to explain their point of view, without hiding behind the classic 'it's too campy' barrier that everyone always hides behind. Now, to what you said:
Lt Albrecht wrote:
So you love the fact it appears to have been textured using a child's set of crayons?
I like the fact that it uses the same art style of RA2, which was and still remains my all-time favorite game. If you take a step back and compare the two games, you can clearly see the uncanny similarities between the two:
Which of course is definitely the darkest C&C to date. I know very well that you understand that they share an almost identical engine. If Westwood had wanted to give Ra2 a dark, gritty atmosphere, then they were more than capable of doing so. The cartooniness of Ra2 was a design choice, not a graphical limitation.
The only real difference between Ra2's cartooniness and Ra3's cartooniness is that Ra3 has fancy lighting effects which enhance the colours. Had the technology been available back in Ra2's day, Westwood would have undoubtedly used such an effect.
Of course, if you're referring to the units in RA3 as being over the top, I'd suggest you take off those rose tinted glasses and have a look back at the units in previous RA games. What with accurate tesla coils, tesla tanks, tesla troopers. Nuclear cargo trucks, redneck mechanics, cape-wearing thiefs, invulnerability devices, dual-barreled T-80s, mechanical dogs that can leap further than an M16 can shoot, cybernetic super soliders that can defeat battleships one-on-one, flamethrower towers, a civilian with pistols that can kill 20 men trained to fight, flamethrowers that shoot fireballs, GIANT ANTS, laser towers that shoot at each other for increased firepower, laser tanks, guys with personal teleporters, storm-creating machines, suicidal Russians with dynamite, hinds that deploy into 155mm artillery pieces, mind control, attack dolphins, UFO's that shoot lasers and steal money, instantaneous cloning machines, incredible hulks, devices that turn men into incredible hulks and pretty much everything else in Yuri's arsenal, it's pretty safe to say that Red Alert 3 is sticking by its counterparts in terms of realism and 'over the topness'.
It may surprise you, but I've been with the RA series since the beginning, and am a pround owner of every RA game (including Retaliation). In my own honest opinion, I feel that RA3 is a worthy successor to RA2. Whether RA2 is a worthy successor to RA is debatable, but once you factor Retaliation, Counterstrike and Aftermath as transitional elements into the mix, you realize that the series has slowly become increasingly campy over time, with RA3 being the pinnacle of RA campyness.
Lt Albrecht wrote:
That in the tutorial tanks talk to each other and say "ouch!" when shot?
Oh yes. God forbid should a game have sense of humor, and not try take itself seriously when it clearly isn't a serious game.
Lt Albrecht wrote:
That the plot is so meh it's not even B grade?
It depends on which campaign we're referring to here. I agree that both the Soviet and Allied campaigns were somewhat dissapointing, but I really got into the Empire campaign. Really it was the only one to have something resembling a story; less 'go here, kill this' missions that made the other two extremely repetitive.
Lt Albrecht wrote:
And thet hired that stupid bitch Jemma Atkinson who put on an accent EVEN THOUGH SHE'S ALREADY ztyping BRITISH!
Tbh I really didn't notice. I guess as someone who lives in the UK you would notice that sort of thing immediately. Mind you, it's no worse than the hilarious attempt at a Japanese accent by Kelly Hu.
Lt Albrecht wrote:
You obviously hate realistic games (Icyson quote, contempt for anyone who dares dislike RA3 etcetera)
Yes, how on earth did you guess? Clearly I hate all realistic games, and only enjoy games without a shred of realism in them.
Oh wait a minute, no I don't. You've completely over-generalized my stance on games, and interpreted my sig in completely the wrong way. Let me make it clear that I do not hate realistic games, and only show contempt for people who mindlessly bash RA3 without having any argument to back it up other than 'it's not serious enough' or 'it's cartoony', or in your case both.
Lt Albrecht wrote:
I mean come on Japan instantly becoming a superpower with enough resources of men and material to take on the Western allies and Soviet Union at THE SAME TIME
Yes, I can imagine that it doesn't make much sense, but only if you choose to look at the story in the shallowest possible way. If you piece together chunks of information from the units profiles, dev interviews, etc. you come up with a story that is deep and well thought out. Unfortunately, the FMV's do very little to try and explain the story, which leaves those who skim over the game rather baffled.
Look, overall I completely understand where you're coming from; however I do not agree with you. Many people seem to want the game to feel and play exactly like RA1; a hilarious game that treats itself with the utmost seriousness. However, this was completely and irreversibly broken with RA2. The devs over at Westwood Pacific took the series in a completely different direction, which was more than likely inspired by Aftermath, Counterstrike, and especially Retaliation.
It would appear that the development of RA3 was heavily influenced by C&C3. It cannot be denied that C&C3 took most of its inspiration from TD (Treaded Mammoths, lighter and more campy FMV's, etc), which considering that TS was not exactly a commercial success, would appear to make logical sense. The fans, however complained about the sudden change in pace; how suddenly GDI had given up on mechs, Nod had abandoned Cyborgs completely, and Tiberium had completely changed its molecular structure.
EALA would have taken all this into consideration, and understood that people wanted a squeal to the previous game, not to the original game. You can see this quite clearly in C&C4 (and partially in KW), and how they've conveniently woven a storyline to allow mechs, cyborgs and subterrainian units back into the game regardless of them being completely absent in the preceding game. In RA3 they decided to try and emphasis the unique and 'ridiculous' aspects of the previous game, just as RA2 had done to RA1. You can imagine their surprise when fans started complaining that they'd gone too far in enhancing these similarities.
Look, I don't try to try and force people into thinking in my mindset; I've long come to realize that I must have interpreted RA1/2 in a completely different way to many other people. But really, I think people need to take off those rose-tinted glasses and really take a look at what they've actually been playing all these years. Of course, many people will maintain that RA1/2 are both completely serious games, and that RA3 is a 'travesty' of the series. People are entirely allowed to speak their opinions, just as much as I am allowed to question them. We don't always need to descend into childish name-calling because of a difference of opinion, and I hope that we can resolve these differences with respect, and in the most mature and responsible way possible. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I completely understand where you're coming from; however I do not agree with you.
That sentence is the difference between being a twat and being reasonable. Yes, I see your view. Really (Armchair CEO of EA hat on) they should honestly have checked what people wanted, they divided the series up into tiberium and Red Alert, didn't it occur to them the expectations for an RA might be different to a Tiberium?
Quote:
. People are entirely allowed to speak their opinions, just as much as I am allowed to question them. We don't always need to descend into childish name-calling because of a difference of opinion, and I hope that we can resolve these differences with respect, and in the most mature and responsible way possible.
Sure, that's the way it should be.
Quote:
take off those rose-tinted glasses
Rose tinted glasses... They're round here somewhere. TBH C&C went down the plug after TD RA was imbalanced as ztype, TS just plain sucks (imbalance so bad Nod is unplayable online, craptons of unfinished stuff etc etc), RA2 the orifinal was quite cartoony, YR made it worse... Then we have the generals fiasco, C&C:3D (as you said, more TD than TS). The guys who made RA1, some were serious and some were not, what yo get is this weird mix of dark battlefields with tons of tanks and bloody splats that used to be soldiers, along with some crazy weapons (GG, Coil, MGG, MAD tank) and then Homoerotecism between the allied generals, stalin screwing the head of the NKVD and a ton of other weird crap. As a result the expansions exaggerate existing game aspects, leading to a continuation of the sillyness without people noticing to RA2 and hence RA3 because of stuff that happened to another series that they made not linked and the idea that what holds true for some C&Cs holds true for all of them (which you'd kinda think it would) but not checking this and as a result some people wining, others telling them to shut up a lot and dutchy going "FFS I'm off!" Every few related threads. In short it's all a clusterfuck and the topic really needs to be banned from being discussed. Schroedinger's arguement, put it in a box and leave it both lost and won, then shutting the box so nobody can open it and force it to be won/lost. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject:
Dutchygamer wrote:
Because we we already have a SC 1 forum, not used, and three C&C modding forums (Gen, TW and RA3) not used, nor supported by this community. Why do you think all of a sudden we will support SC II modding? Ain't it better to have some more activity in the unused modding forums instead of creating another (most likely) unused forum?
Also, from what I know this is a C&C modding forum. Why should we support the number 1 concurrent of C&C?
We do not have any SC1 forum here.
And the Generals, C&C3 and RA3 forums are being used, even if they are not as active as Red Alert 2.
Also, there will be a lot more people mapping SC2 than people still modding RA3 once SC2 is released. QUICK_EDIT
May as well have a damn Renegade forum then if you're still going to support (HAH) Red Alert 3 and its nonexistent modding community
I mean seriously whats the damn point in the forums past Generals? Barely anybody here likes or mods (rather just bitches in the fourms) about those games. Theres obviously a wealth of tutorials here for RA3 and C&C3, too. Admit that the C&C3 and RA3 forums really are useless. There are hardly any MODDERS for the new games coming here period, and hell, theres what, one hosted C&C3 mod and C&C3's been out for like, 3 years now?
So rather then praising SC2 for its modding community's ability to pwn RA3's(really nice way to support C&C there by the way) and adding another useless forum, just delete the damn C&C3 and RA3 forums. Do you actually think that SC2 modders are going to come to a forum full of C&C fans because one forum? If I was a SC2 modder I would never host my mod here. It'd be a death sentence to the mod. Which is already true for most non TS mods here.
Albrecht's post, 1000%, by the way. Ban this goddamn Westwood and EA discussions. Ban them, ban people when the start them, lock threads or SOMETHING. this is a modding community supposedly but its become the 'EA sux' forum. Constant bashing of EA and Westwood and constant worship of them. The fighting is ztyping old. Please just ban the damn topic and get something done at this place. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Yes, please. I swear we all spend more time arguing than modding. Nice big thread saying "THOU SHALT NOT PASS COMMENT ON THAT WESTWOOD/EA THING!". _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject:
Seems my memory was false: it was Warcraft III forum. Still, it's Blizzard... But what the hell, it's your forum Banshee, do with it what you want. You may attract some new ppl, but you may also lose some of the old ppl (taking any of their knowledge and abilities with them)... QUICK_EDIT
Albrecht's post, 1000%, by the way. Ban this goddamn Westwood and EA discussions. Ban them, ban people when the start them, lock threads or SOMETHING. this is a modding community supposedly but its become the 'EA sux' forum. Constant bashing of EA and Westwood and constant worship of them. The fighting is ztyping old. Please just ban the damn topic and get something done at this place.
I totally do NOT agree on this part.
Muting people's opinnions is very bad, what if modders spend more time arguing then modding, it's there choice, noone says they need to discuss anything...
Everyone has an opinnion, even if there are some stupid discussions, therefore you don't need to ban that.
Sorry if I sound a bit out of my normal neutral stand but as you can see I'm a heavy supporter of freedom of speech. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: National Reference Laboratory for IPNV
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject:
I'm getting the idea that none of you know the extent of Starcraft modding.
Starcraft itself is moddable, maybe not as moddable as TS or RA2, but more than RA1. However it's not easy (you are more limited adding new units, and they all need to be sprites, as Starcraft doesn't have an "easily" editable file format as voxels). There are total and partial conversions. Personally I loved Gundam Century, and there's also a Warcraft 2 remake, but the name escapes me. In relation to partial conversions I'm looking forward to Sons of War.
On relation to Warcraft 3, the UI is changeable, and there are tons of free high quality public models and textures for the game (as an example before WC3Campaigns fused with the Hiveworkshop, it accepted every submission, since it fused, only the approved models are accepted, it's like we only accepted the spotlighted stuff, and dumped everything else).
TCs, are possible, as I've seen some (like Project Revolution, a 3D remake of Starcraft), however I've never played them.
And adding new units, weapons, or abilities is incredibly easy, as all you need, coding wise, is included in the world editor, if you needed graphics you could use 3dsmax plugging provided by Blizzard, or use one of the several tools made by the community. If you need a totally new mechanic, you could program it on JASS.
And about Stacraft 2, Blizzard has stated that they wanted to make it as powerful as they could, adding stuff that they won't use, but could be used interestingly by the players. I guess it will also support JASS, which was used in Warcraft 3 to include new coding to the games.
The downside, is that mods like those we work on here, are not a common thing in Blizzard's games, the most common stuff is mapmods, mostly minigames, or (in)complete campaigns. QUICK_EDIT
There is as much effort put into SC2 as there is in converting TS' units to RA2 and not adding anything new. Activision doesn't care because Madden, eh...Call of Duty, makes a profit each year along with all the WoWnerds.
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:04 am Post subject:
Quote:
May as well have a damn Renegade forum then if you're still going to support (HAH) Red Alert 3 and its nonexistent modding community
If you wanna a Renegade mod community, create one. In free websites of internet, people work on whatever they want.
Quote:
I mean seriously whats the damn point in the forums past Generals? Barely anybody here likes or mods (rather just bitches in the fourms) about those games. Theres obviously a wealth of tutorials here for RA3 and C&C3, too. Admit that the C&C3 and RA3 forums really are useless. There are hardly any MODDERS for the new games coming here period, and hell, theres what, one hosted C&C3 mod and C&C3's been out for like, 3 years now?
There is one hosted C&C3 mod here, but many outside it. Our lack of success on getting hostees on C&C3 does not mean that we'll never be able to host C&C3 mods or expand its community.
I think PPM's C&C3 and RA3 editing forums activity are surprisingly high comparing with all these places, even with no hosted RA3 mod here. And it is doing very well, considering the conditions provided by these games, even if you don't visit both forums or get interested by these games, Carno.
Quote:
So rather then praising SC2 for its modding community's ability to pwn RA3's(really nice way to support C&C there by the way) and adding another useless forum, just delete the damn C&C3 and RA3 forums. Do you actually think that SC2 modders are going to come to a forum full of C&C fans because one forum? If I was a SC2 modder I would never host my mod here. It'd be a death sentence to the mod. Which is already true for most non TS mods here.
Tiberium Essence is quite successful here and it could be more if I actually posted more news about it. I don't want to restrict PPM to Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2. I'm not lunatic, nor fool. I'm actually trying to adapt some of the tools here to become useful to these newer games, starting with Voxel Section Editor III and the upcoming work on OSGIC. I don't expect TS and RA2 to be successfull forever. And I don't think C&C3 and RA3 failed completely. 3 years after TS's release, the modding community was in a similar state and I managed to help to raise it to what you've seen in these years. So, throwing away something that works, such as C&C3 and RA3 support here, even if it is nowhere near our RA2 activity is a stupid action.
Quote:
Albrecht's post, 1000%, by the way. Ban this goddamn Westwood and EA discussions. Ban them, ban people when the start them, lock threads or SOMETHING. this is a modding community supposedly but its become the 'EA sux' forum. Constant bashing of EA and Westwood and constant worship of them. The fighting is ztyping old. Please just ban the damn topic and get something done at this place.
You are the main person who feeds this kind of discussion here, can't you notice?
Quote:
You may attract some new ppl, but you may also lose some of the old ppl (taking any of their knowledge and abilities with them)...
I'm honestly not that motivated to bring SC2 support for PPM, to be honest. But if I added a SC2 mapping forums here, why would you or anyone else leave the place? I'm seriously curious about it. I'm not crazy to cut support for C&C games here, for sure... so it would be one additional feature instead of cutting other features. QUICK_EDIT
lol what I feed the discussion apparently yet im not the one who has to bash EA in every post. Good stuff. Its not me starting these discussions, its the people who can't take their nostalgia googles off and act like 1999 was a better time. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
You are the main person who feeds this kind of discussion here, can't you notice?
Lies. Stop trying to give carno my job! Don't you know there's a recession?
Quote:
If you wanna a Renegade mod community, create one. In free websites of internet, people work on whatever they want.
Sod it, I'll take my little side project to freedom then one day...
Quote:
There is one hosted C&C3 mod here, but many outside it. Our lack of success on getting hostees on C&C3 does not mean that we'll never be able to host C&C3 mods or expand its community.
C&C3 and RA3 editing forums here have few people, but if you visit other modding communities with hosted mods of these games.
I think PPM's C&C3 and RA3 editing forums activity are surprisingly high comparing with all these places, even with no hosted RA3 mod here. And it is doing very well, considering the conditions provided by these games, even if you don't visit both forums or get interested by these games, Carno.
Actually on the modding front Both C&C3 and RA3 are quite quiet with a few determined one man shows, a handful of professional teams like isotx and a few dozen people of varying intellect who screw round with the SDK to make those horrible everything overpowered mods... then RA3 retarded which is what they are all aiming for and will universally never reach.
In short everything is screwed up, just as it's always been and just as it always will be. Also carno is not starting the EA Vs WW arguements, a combination of people are and they never solve anything anyways so ban the damned things. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Really,if this thing could be transformed to a better RA3,it could be awesome.
What exactly in your eyes would constitute a 'better' RA3?
Let me guess; one that's dark, scary and serious? Of course, because that would make for a great sequel to RA2, which was heavy on all three accounts
Blah blah blah.
Everything can be better.
If you don't like my RA2 mod,this doesn't mean that my SC2 mod could be worse.
Simple as that.
And,yes,I DO dislike RA3.Thankyou very much.
No,I don't wanna enter endless discussions about it.Thankyou again.
Yes,I DID play it,so you won't convince me to buy it,nor use it.Just the engine has been done better.
I say that SC2 engine IS better than the RA3 engine,and I doubt it will be worse.
Heck,Blizzard will also allow people to make their own mods and sell them.Its a relatively fair deal to me. QUICK_EDIT
Yes, please. I swear we all spend more time arguing than modding. Nice big thread saying "THOU SHALT NOT PASS COMMENT ON THAT WESTWOOD/EA/Blizzard THING!".
Fixed.
Heh. Comparing them is just useless. Like I said in the other thread, each company has their own wins and fails. Last edited by AltomareXD on Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:54 am; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
Indeed. And it's also more than a little amusing how so many guys on the first page jump on this Blizzard modding thing, using it as a means to further bash EA. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
"OMG EA is evil!"
"Yeah, Blizzard is best!"
"NO, Blizzard fails omfg"
"RA3 sucks"
"No, RA3 is great"
"You fail"
"Omg StarCraft is awesome!!!!"
"StarCraft fails C&C3 FTW!!!
"C&C3 sucks."
"Westwood owns, they must be revived"
"Omfg you fail Westwood can't be brought back"
"hahaha lol you all fail"
"O RLY?"
"YA RLY"
"lol you suck!"
"ztype you all, I'll go play on my Atari 2600!"
"Your what?"
"Omg Atari fails, NES FTW"
"STFU, SEGA Master System Owns!"
"I like apples!"
"Wut?"
"Bananas are teh best!!"
"NO, oranges are better!"
"uhmm, what where we discussing again?"
"IDK...something about a snow storm and arts...." _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Nice of you to completely ignore my above post. If you're not willing to justify or even discuss your opinion, then it's hardly valid. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
It's far easier to criticize without justification than it is to make an intelligent analysis of the topic at hand. That's why everyone always flocks to using the 'EA is the great Satan' and 'Westwood was the Messiah' mantra at the first given opportunity.
Example A:
Giant Squid: Awesome, Westwood is hilarious!
Sonic Attack Dolphins: Absolute Westwood Genius!
Attack Bears: ZOMG EA IZ MAKIN TEH GAME TOO UNSERIOUZ!!!! BRING BAK WESTWOOD PLZKTHX!!!!!!
Spot the inconsistancy. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
It's far easier to criticize without justification than it is to make an intelligent analysis of the topic at hand. That's why everyone always flocks to using the 'EA is the great Satan' and 'Westwood was the Messiah' mantra at the first given opportunity.
Example A:
Giant Squid: Awesome, Westwood is hilarious!
Sonic Attack Dolphins: Absolute Westwood Genius!
Attack Bears: ZOMG EA IZ MAKIN TEH GAME TOO UNSERIOUZ!!!! BRING BAK WESTWOOD PLZKTHX!!!!!!
Spot the inconsistancy.
Westwood LA=EA
The only connection between the two studios was the management. So design-wise the whole silly animal soldiers idea was all EA design.
Althrough EA probably based it on Chitzoy or whatever the name of the robot dog was... QUICK_EDIT
Chitzkoi. Who was pretty random I admit. The whole outranging a rifle soldier thing though... EVERYTHING outranges rifle soldiers, IIRC even grenadiers at least equal them... _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject:
Banshee wrote:
Quote:
You may attract some new ppl, but you may also lose some of the old ppl (taking any of their knowledge and abilities with them)...
I'm honestly not that motivated to bring SC2 support for PPM, to be honest. But if I added a SC2 mapping forums here, why would you or anyone else leave the place? I'm seriously curious about it. I'm not crazy to cut support for C&C games here, for sure... so it would be one additional feature instead of cutting other features.
You didn't mention you meant only mapping... QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject:
What else would we cover from it? Modding? Does anybody really mod Warcraft 3? Only mod maps are really successful. I have the same expectations for Starcraft II. QUICK_EDIT
Why mod the game when the editor was basically as powerful as what the devs (Blizzard) themselves used?
I expect the same results for SC2 as well. TCs involving modding the actual game and its layout I don't see much of. But a TC campaign map series (that for extra awesome is multiplayer compatible out of the box!) I could see happening. QUICK_EDIT
I want to mod Warcraft III. It can do some pretty amazing things, its just that its not a modern or greater era type setting. I've been wanting to do a mod/map game for WarIII, but I've been busy with school and my current projects to start another new one.
Of course, modding is a loose term when used with WARIII because the map editor is pretty much the modification SDK as well. It is capable of WAY more than just making maps. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: National Reference Laboratory for IPNV
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:20 am Post subject:
I feel that my previous post got totally ignored.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpTuQBMakog&feature=related[/youtube]
On a sidenote the Zerg reveal video was done on the Galaxy editor. (BTW it uses the alpha models and textures, so it's quite outdated graphically). QUICK_EDIT
I am with you on that Machine. I did have a chance actually to mod WC3...and actually get paid to do it. anyways worldedit is incredibly powerful piece of software, but what makes it so is the community. while on its own can be limited but the power lies in its ability for wide range of game play and story. In which I, myself have no doubt Galaxy Editor will not only carry on this torch but use it to light its own mega-nuke of creativity with it. ;P
The funnest thing about modding WC3 it was being able to actually design your "own" game..I was able to emulate a crude pac-man like mod for WC3. Probably not the most intriguing example but w/e.
While my time here, I noticed majority of mods are limited in terms of game play. Only a few branched out and opted for more unique approaches, using game modes, etc, its either habit/custom or the lack of option the tools have...While I seen many are focused on emulating nostalgia or creating "MyperfectC&C_2.0"....laser walls, Firestorm..tiberium..etc. not that its bad but its why I felt ppm is lacking in terms of innovation...although, I will say that I guess that is the guiding spirit of C&C, to create its own utopia, full of trex riding mutants.err herds of every mammoth tank imaginable with titan remakes in little firestorm stalls. Also not to say there are a few originals...
Delirium existed as I wanted to create something different using TS/RA2 engine..although since then I cannot say that what I imagine now can really be captured there.
It was always exciting to know a new C&C was going to come, becuase that meant more logic, more stuff and "freedom"! If anyone started out modding RA1, remember when TS was god sent back then! The ability to create new units, new weapons ! OMGNOWAI! O__O!
For an ancient modder like myself, it does feel weird for the trend to break. Once generals came out, I was disappointed...idc about the game but the tradition of modding C&C was gone..the anticipation was lost TW and KH didn't help either, not that I am bashing them at all, TW was alright, Scrin FTW, RA3 was fun..but in terms of modding they made a choice and thus I responded with apathy, I am a modder, I play it, then mod it ...I did tinker with RA3 though although..It didn't catch on. I never felt attached to it as I did when modding RA1/TS/RA2...& WC3...
haha, yea I just was thinking the same thing when I watched that again earlier today. SC2 changed so much since that vid. I still think they should of made the drones cuter though with the those big red eyes...d'awww
and I am glad they changed the infestor..i hated that pug ugly thing. _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: National Reference Laboratory for IPNV
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject:
@Eaver:
SC2 multiplayer is directed toward hardcore Korean players with APMs WAY OVER 9000!!!, it's meant to be highly competitive from the start. Though Blizzard said that the game probably won't be really competitive until at least the first patch.
However the game won't be inaccessible to new players either, as Blizzard is going to include a set of minigames to help you reach higher APMs, and learn micro and macro effectively.
The singleplayer should be more accessible to new players, however Blizzard also stated that they won't include proper tutorial missions, and are going for a more step curve of difficulty. If you want to try the new units, you can do so at the Hyperion's armory, where you buy/customize your army, as it has a "simulator", though I don't know to what extent is the unit test.
Anyways, even if the game is meant to be hard and competitive, as any popular game, it will get filled with noobs, idiots and arrogant players.
@Ickus:
I also modded WC3, in fact my first proper 3D model was from Nene Romanova from Bubblegum Crisis, I made it with a community tool. However, I've never been very fond of fantasy settings, and WC3's overly cartoony graphics made that worse.
It's also worth mentioning that unoriginality is also common on WC3, after all, most of the modmaps tend to be either defenses or DOTA clones. But there's still original games there, like Pyramid Escape, but I wish I played WC3 with people that actually knew English, instead of answering 4 to every question. QUICK_EDIT
DoW, CoH, DoW 2, are all epic RTS. It takes a considerable level of skill to win a CoH game, especially now. ztype its hard. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
DoW2 is the best thing ever since bludgeoning brains out with stones.
have played it and it sucked imho.
Why?
Does anybody like the "Famous" cat and mouse play?.DOes anybody like playing an "RTS" where you dont build anything and have just one building already build?
DOW1 was epic,dont know about coh(i hate WW2 era games) but dow2 fails in every aspect.
My prob is that it was aimed at casual gamers,it became a no brainer game cuz the only thing you have to do is to hold some victory points and thats it.The player with the best camping and blobbing wins.
C&C4 is aimed at casual gamers and this is the thing that is really bothering me.
WIC was cool but it would never fit in a C&C . QUICK_EDIT
Well how do you define epic? And even if it is defined epic who's to say if it's going to be universally liked by everyone? Because that's something that applies to no game in existence. Every game has people who like the style and dislike the style. eaver posed the question "Does anybody like playing an "RTS" where you dont build anything and have just one building already build? " my answer is yes, because logically speaking if the answer is no, both WiC and DOW II would be deader than a doornail today.
Eaver wrote:
the only thing you have to do is to hold some victory points and thats it.
That's really just a simplification of the general gameplay objective of RTT games.
I could just as well say "Hey in a FPS game all you need to do is shoot the enemy before he shoots you" or "Hey in a RTS the only thing you have to do is kill the enemy base" but of course all of us would know there's actually more to it than that, and likewise for RTT games there is a certain level of depth involved so to assume it is a shallow "no-brainer" genre because it is built around a single objective is tantamount to calling soccer or basketball or golf a no-brainer since they also involve a single core objective (get a ball into a certain place). _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Played the DOW2 demo and it feels so unnatural. The intro video is crap compared to the intro of DOW1, it feels so unnaturally animated like the whole game. From what I played I didn't like how all the squads were like "heros". The terrain was also incredibly clean, though I realise it was only the first few missions. The Ork voices weren't as good as DOW1 versions either.
One big problem is the lack of Chaos. How can you not have Chaos Space Marines and still have Imperial Space Marines... even worse, Eldar are still ingame and yet their longest nemesis Chaos is not. Bad faction choice IMO... should kicked the Orks out and at least had Dark Eldar in or something. At least one faction has to be 'evil'. QUICK_EDIT
What's wrong with having strong allied tanks? is there some postulate that declares allied tanks have to suck? Plus Tiberium has never been harmless. Heck its revamped version is theoretically unstoppable, just that EA deliberately nerfs it in the storyline to give humanity a chance to survive. Last edited by Valdez on Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
it just seems to me that sometimes the more they make the animations different the more their coding looks the same. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
IMO the very idea of factions being diverse by virtue of one side having a strong tank and the other having a weak tank is pretty shallow. I mean it's essentially just a difference of some stat values in the code. I'd rather have an allied tank that is strong, just not strong in the same way as a soviet tank. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
well the idea is that by making the individual weaker but cheaper, is that they can be massed produced and the whole strength in numbers. Not only that, but considering things like speed (the usual trade of for armor/firepower) will allow for hit and runs.
By giving factions strengths and weaknesses, you force the players to develop different kinds of strategy that revovlve around the particular faction. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
What's wrong with having strong allied tanks? is there some postulate that declares allied tanks have to suck? Plus Tiberium has never been harmless. Heck its revamped version is theoretically unstoppable, just that EA deliberately nerfs it in the storyline to give humanity a chance to survive.
Well how do you define epic? And even if it is defined epic who's to say if it's going to be universally liked by everyone? Because that's something that applies to no game in existence. Every game has people who like the style and dislike the style. eaver posed the question "Does anybody like playing an "RTS" where you dont build anything and have just one building already build? " my answer is yes, because logically speaking if the answer is no, both WiC and DOW II would be deader than a doornail today.
Eaver wrote:
the only thing you have to do is to hold some victory points and thats it.
That's really just a simplification of the general gameplay objective of RTT games.
I could just as well say "Hey in a FPS game all you need to do is shoot the enemy before he shoots you" or "Hey in a RTS the only thing you have to do is kill the enemy base" but of course all of us would know there's actually more to it than that, and likewise for RTT games there is a certain level of depth involved so to assume it is a shallow "no-brainer" genre because it is built around a single objective is tantamount to calling soccer or basketball or golf a no-brainer since they also involve a single core objective (get a ball into a certain place).
Too good taht you know that DOW2 is an RTT and not RTS. If so,than it is stripped down cuz you dont build anything except your units.
In RTS,you have more micro and macro than in RTT games obviously.
Now one more thing, did anyone play WIC and DOW2?
I did.
WIC was good cuz you had Tactical Aid(was good to watch) and funnily,the main objective was to amass TA so as you could use nukes,carpetbombs and so on. Sure there were those points in the map but their role was simmilar as in dow2.
Dow 2 lacked any reward for capturing those points plus the map was minimalistic and unreal.Above this all,in wic there was no cat and mouse play unlike in dow2 and lets not forget the 360 degree camera in wic.
What i wanted to say with
"the only thing you have to do is to hold some victory points and thats it"
is that for this games,rewards are a must because winning the game is no reward in the gameplay itself.
In wic you get to use TA when capping and holding points in dow you get nothing immediately except some passive skin unlocks.
In RTS games,as RA2,yo ucan kill the enemy in different ways but in RTT you can only do it in one way thus ingame rewards matter.
Anyone played bf2? I never aimed at the flags but i aimed at killing enemies so i could rank up and unlock the special weapons.
I just hope that C&C4 aims more at WIC than dow2 QUICK_EDIT
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I feed the discussion apparently yet im not the one who has to bash EA in every post. Good stuff. Its not me starting these discussions, its the people who can't take their nostalgia googles off and act like 1999 was a better time.
Don't you know there's a recession?
anyways worldedit is incredibly powerful piece of software, but what makes it so is the community. while on its own can be limited but the power lies in its ability for wide range of game play and story. In which I, myself have no doubt Galaxy Editor will not only carry on this torch but use it to light its own mega-nuke of creativity with it. ;P
