Hmm? Older C&Cs were all about spam, more so than these new ones, especially RA3.
Really it can be down to the players. If you know someone your playing against then you should try more creative ways to win to make it fun. If your only goal is to win then just spam away. QUICK_EDIT
I found that there were alot of creative ways to win that were just overlooked. Like using a nighthawk to drop in some Seals. _________________ Please, read the signature rules of the forum. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:06 pm Post subject:
Uh, Red Alert 1, Tiberian Dawn were extremely micro-intensive.
You couldn't just drive your tanks by the enemy formations and watch them die en masse. You had to issue attack orders.
Also, TD and RA1 also were the only CNC games without faggotry never-miss weapons. Proper micro-management could allow you to beat a Mammoth Tank with one Light Tank! Try that in modern CNCs with their ztyping stupid hit-scan projectiles. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
Also, TD and RA1 also were the only CNC games without faggotry never-miss weapons. Proper micro-management could allow you to beat a Mammoth Tank with one Light Tank! Try that in modern CNCs with their ztyping stupid hit-scan projectiles.
The 'miss' feature for tank projectiles was in the early versions of C&C3, but was patched out later on (1.05 I think). But also the concept of missiles missing their target was what make rocket infantry useless in RA1; why bother creating anti-tank infantry when your opponent can just constantly keep their tanks moving (to crush them) and cause them to miss every time?
Deformat wrote:
No,I just mean it when people have the slightest idea on what I'm doing with my mod.
I wasn't even aware that you were making a mod. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
In RTS games,as RA2,yo ucan kill the enemy in different ways but in RTT you can only do it in one way thus ingame rewards matter.
Heh well in RTS I kill the enemy with my tanks and my soldiers and my planes. And in RTT I find myself doing the same thing!
Killing the enemy in "only one way" I presume you mean defeating the enemy, and on that note I say in RTS there is one and only one way as well: Destroy all enemy buildings. No other way! Do RTS games give you alternate choices such as "hey you know what don't kill the enemy base if the situation doesn't permit it, you can also win by securing control points instead! let that ignorant turtler sit in his impregnable fortress while you secure the control points that he never bothered with since he was so busy turret-spamming n his base!".
The only possibility I can think of in RTS where you defeat an enemy by not killing his base is the "death by economy" tactic where you cripple the enemy eco beyond recovery, forcing him to surrender inevitably (done this before in RA3 by rushing to kill collectors), but then again RTT has something similar as well where you keep harassing the enemy until he is practically unable to hold on to any control points and surrenders out of helplessness.
To me the real difference between RTT and RTS is not number of "win conditions" since like I mentioned, each have one clear defined win-objective. What RTS truly has more than RTT is in fact scope. In RTT the scope is purely tactical engagements (all you do is fight). In RTS it is that plus base management plus resource management (you do more than just fight). _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
In RTS games,as RA2,yo ucan kill the enemy in different ways but in RTT you can only do it in one way thus ingame rewards matter.
Heh well in RTS I kill the enemy with my tanks and my soldiers and my planes. And in RTT I find myself doing the same thing!
Killing the enemy in "only one way" I presume you mean defeating the enemy, and on that note I say in RTS there is one and only one way as well: Destroy all enemy buildings. No other way! Do RTS games give you alternate choices such as "hey you know what don't kill the enemy base if the situation doesn't permit it, you can also win by securing control points instead! let that ignorant turtler sit in his impregnable fortress while you secure the control points that he never bothered with since he was so busy turret-spamming n his base!".
The only possibility I can think of in RTS where you defeat an enemy by not killing his base is the "death by economy" tactic where you cripple the enemy eco beyond recovery, forcing him to surrender inevitably (done this before in RA3 by rushing to kill collectors), but then again RTT has something similar as well where you keep harassing the enemy until he is practically unable to hold on to any control points and surrenders out of helplessness.
To me the real difference between RTT and RTS is not number of "win conditions" since like I mentioned, each have one clear defined win-objective. What RTS truly has more than RTT is in fact scope. In RTT the scope is purely tactical engagements (all you do is fight). In RTS it is that plus base management plus resource management (you do more than just fight).
You do know that in RTT you can never loose a tank cuz you can respawn it with no cost.
In rts you can kill the enemy by building for ex:planes,in rtt you cant do that cuz the enemy easily deletes his units and builds a counter,not even wasting a single penny. Have done that in WIC?
In rtt all you do is fight da pointy point.
In RTS you could capture his base and kill him from inside,can you capture anything in rtt?
in rtt you do the same thing,like killing the enemy. but without caring fr your troops ,in rts when you lose that tank it hurts.
But of course,it depends on the person.
Just my two cents for this entire thing. QUICK_EDIT
In RTS you could capture his base and kill him from inside,can you capture anything in rtt?
Yes, a tactic I absolutely despise. What the ztype? It's only surpassed in utter stupidity by the attacking-with-powerplants-and-defensive-buildings. QUICK_EDIT
You do know that in RTT you can never loose a tank cuz you can respawn it with no cost
You are an ignorant fool with little knowledge of the subject matter. Go play Sudden Strike II with the RWM 6.7 and drown in strategy you imbecile. Every tank is worth twice its weight in gold, higher ranking officers may as well be made of bits of jesus and antiquities for how valuable and irreplacable they are.
Before you talk, think, and before you think go get something to think about. Either that or shut up. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. Last edited by Lt Albrecht on Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
You do know that in RTT you can never loose a tank cuz you can respawn it with no cost.
Eh? So WiC is the only RTT game in existence? No, it's not...
Go play Joint Task Force, Blitzkrieg, Ground Control 1 and 2 and your statement becomes invalid..
Quote:
In rts you can kill the enemy by building for ex:planes,in rtt you cant do that cuz the enemy easily deletes his units and builds a counter,not even wasting a single penny. Have done that in WIC?
It is impossible to "delete" units in Joint Task Force or Ground Control and you don't get a refund of your credits when your unit is destroyed.
Most RTT games are much more tactical than RTS games.
In Joint Task Force you start with limited resources and you get more be doing mission objectives.
In Blitzkrieg you can only use the forces you start with. (may be wrong It has been ages since I played this, and no I don't mean the C&C mods)
In Ground Control you get founds by holding "victory points" (well at least in GC2, I don't remember much of GC1) _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Uh, Red Alert 1, Tiberian Dawn were extremely micro-intensive.
You couldn't just drive your tanks by the enemy formations and watch them die en masse. You had to issue attack orders.
Also, TD and RA1 also were the only CNC games without faggotry never-miss weapons. Proper micro-management could allow you to beat a Mammoth Tank with one Light Tank! Try that in modern CNCs with their ztyping stupid hit-scan projectiles.
This. Oh and I don't know about RA, but in C&C1, bazooka dudes were a serious threat to tanks, compared to their cost. You couldn't dodge the missiles by moving the tank around because of the missiles' speed.
Their only drawback was their seriously-low amount of hp. The soldiers would die of a single, though precise, cannon ball hit if standing still. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
You do know that in RTT you can never loose a tank cuz you can respawn it with no cost
You are an ignorant fool with little knowledge of the subject matter. Go play Sudden Strike II with the RWM 6.7 and drown in strategy you imbecile. Every tank is worth twice its weight in gold, higher ranking officers may as well be made of bits of jesus and antiquities for how valuable and irreplacable they are.
Before you talk, think, and before you think go get something to think about. Either that or shut up.
Before talking to me like as an ignorant fool,GTFO.
You clearly have no right to insullt me scumbag
And lets be easy on the matter,C&C 4 is copying WIC and DOW2 not some other RTT.You will see in time what i mean or won't czu your are too stupid.
Oh and if you dont like capturing buildings,i do,if you feel other way for RTT I do in this way,if you dont respect anyone,go to first grade again kiddies and learn to be kind before coming to a serious forum. QUICK_EDIT
And lets be easy on the matter,C&C 4 is copying WIC and DOW2 not some other RTT.
I have neither seen nor heard anything about C&C4 that is "copying" World in Conflict or Dawn of War 2...
I am talking on the info we have already for it. Of course,thses games are from 2007 and 2009 and are the newest games.What i mean with this is that the domination sys is practicly from dow2. QUICK_EDIT
And every game has ripped off pong! Performing actions to prevent defeat and move closer to victory is *so* overused! _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: evanb90 Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Location: o kawaii koto
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject:
Every game ripped off Pong which ripped off table tennis which ripped off tennis.
So ultimately every game is just a heavily modified digital clone of tennis. _________________ YR modder/artist, DOOM mapper, aka evanb90
Project Lead Developer, New-Star Strike (2014-)
Former Project Lead DeveloperStar Strike (2005-2012), Z-Mod (2006-2007), RA1.5 (2008-2013), The Cold War (2006-2007) QUICK_EDIT
And every game has ripped off pong! Performing actions to prevent defeat and move closer to victory is *so* overused!
Actually every game has ripped off game. I've yet to see a game that does not conform to the stereotype of needing to be played on a PC or a console, or a board with pieces, or cards, or involving balls, or involving people... argh where's the originality and innovation in today's world?
Ixonoclast wrote:
I'm still waiting for the ONE RTS game that brings something new into the gameplay.
...and when it does comes out people're gonna complain that it's so wonderfully new that it doesn't feel like an RTS at all. Just look at the reception to C&C 4. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
C&C4 is an original step for the franchise which is a bore to play because its the same crap for 15 years straight repacked and repainted (sometimes not even balanced!).
And its hated. Seriously, if EA just remade Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 1 in 3D like 60% of the C&C3/RA3 mods do, all of the whining hardcore fans would shit bricks of delight. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
IMO whining hardcore fans do not deserve to experience anything remotely resembling delight or brick-shitting. Why should they, when if you think about it, they are the main source of annoyances and irritation on the community... _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
I didn't say they should though. But its true and a bit funny. EA doesn't do radical changes with madden and they generally rag on EA for that... but for C&C they want it to stay exactly the same like a football game, just update the roster.
Kind of ironic. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
And every game has ripped off pong! Performing actions to prevent defeat and move closer to victory is *so* overused!
No,any imbecile has ripped the jerk shit game.If you are unaware,you are playing it.
I have never met this kind of resistance in a forum,just wow.
YOu must be really.....uhmm dumb to come to forums and speak like this.Go and rant with your agresssion to your mommies.
I am sick of trolls. QUICK_EDIT
No,any imbecile has ripped the jerk shit game.If you are unaware,you are playing it.
I have never met this kind of resistance in a forum,just wow.
YOu must be really.....uhmm dumb to come to forums and speak like this.Go and rant with your agresssion to your mommies.
I am sick of trolls.
Somebody get me a nice, free, NHS ambulance before I die of exposure to Irony. If geiger counters registered it they'd burst into flames at that post. Firstly you say I am dumb because I write ledgibly and with proper spelling. Also you claim I am masturbating faeces... Which is a disturbing concept to say the least, also you claim we are all trolls. Although I'll admit to being a casual (and ineffectual I might add) troll, I am not actually trolling, I was counteracting your half-baked opinion with proper knowledge and more than a little sarcasm... You know why you haven't met resistance like this on a forum before? You've obviously spent your whole time online sheltered from opposing opinions, or you spend a lot of time at the EA forums (regardless of their image their forum undeniably has an average IQ of below 20).
Please actually argue your point with evidence and defend your opinions with reasoning and logic rather than going "FUUUUUUUUUUU YOU'S TROLLIN' NUB!!!!!!" at the first sign of defeat. Seriously, if your opinions were actually valid maybe oyu could proove it by... Defending them maybe?
[EDIT]Missed a single letter out of the whole post, rag on me for changing my stance already[/EDIT] _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
No,any imbecile has ripped the jerk shit game.If you are unaware,you are playing it.
I have never met this kind of resistance in a forum,just wow.
YOu must be really.....uhmm dumb to come to forums and speak like this.Go and rant with your agresssion to your mommies.
I am sick of trolls.
Somebody get me a nice, free, NHS ambulance before I die of exposure to Irony. If geiger counters registered it they'd burst into flames at that post. Firstly you say I am dumb because I write ledgibly and with proper spelling. Also you claim I am masturbating faeces... Which is a disturbing concept to say the least, also you claim we are all trolls. Although I'll admit to being a casual (and ineffectual I might add) troll, I am not actually trolling, I was counteracting your half-baked opinion with proper knowledge and more than a little sarcasm... You know why you haven't met resistance like this on a forum before? You've obviously spent your whole time online sheltered from opposing opinions, or you spend a lot of time at the EA forums (regardless of their image their forum undeniably has an average IQ of below 20).
Please actually argue your point with evidence and defend your opinions with reasoning and logic rather than going "FUUUUUUUUUUU YOU'S TROLLIN' NUB!!!!!!" at the first sign of defeat. Seriously, if your opinions were actually valid maybe oyu could proove it by... Defending them maybe?
[EDIT]Missed a single letter out of the whole post, rag on me for changing my stance already[/EDIT]
Why counter something when I already won this by that fact that you admitted that you are a troll.So as for your ztyping spelling,it ain't of use when you suck at being..... convenient to read.
Tell me,which of your arguments is actually criticizing the concept I was following?
Time tells when C&C4 comes and cant wait to see your smiles on that faithfull day.
Dont worry,you wont see me again here.I don't like arguing with forum trolls and bogus speakers.
PS,If you care grammer in a forum,ok kiddie speak with guys who actually care of your devoid intelligence.(not very smart to insult others and making fun of opinions).Kidd,go torture your people who have to bear you.
Now i am being horny,i bet that nigger is your partner.I bet he is a transy.
Have a nice time. Cheers QUICK_EDIT
What is there to be said about the tool though? it isn't in our hands and we have nothing to base our expectations on.
I for one find this rather amusing, as well.Eaver has failed to the point that he has to use homosexual and racial slurs to win this argument. Whats next? The Hitler card? Shit. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Why counter something when I already won this by that fact that you admitted that you are a troll.So as for your ztyping spelling,it ain't of use when you suck at being..... convenient to read.
Tell me,which of your arguments is actually criticizing the concept I was following?
Time tells when C&C4 comes and cant wait to see your smiles on that faithfull day.
Dont worry,you wont see me again here.I don't like arguing with forum trolls and bogus speakers.
PS,If you care grammer in a forum,ok kiddie speak with guys who actually care of your devoid intelligence.(not very smart to insult others and making fun of opinions).Kidd,go torture your people who have to bear you.
Now i am being horny,i bet that nigger is your partner.I bet he is a transy.
Have a nice time. Cheers
You have invoked every possible defeat except godwin's law. The idea of an arguement is to win via logic, not going "LOL U FUKIN A NIGGA U LOSER!". Resortin to personal attacks is just sidestepping the fact your arguement is flawed and shows everybody you haven't got anything to argue with. Therefore resorting to personal attacks=failure. Also saying I am am amatuer troll doesn't mean I am always trolling here I was arguing properly, which probably worked better looking at your response.
Thanks for free entertaiment. _________________ Yes, work on MV continues. It is not forgotten. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Location: National Reference Laboratory for IPNV
Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject:
Volgin wrote:
What is there to be said about the tool though? it isn't in our hands and we have nothing to base our expectations on.
Did you read the topic before it became a shitfest?.
And we do have something to base our expectations, all the videos of the awesome things it can do, and what the Warcraft 3's editor was able to do.
Did anyone really not expect this thread to derail and turn into a troll-fest? I mean, the thread title is just asking for this sort of behavior. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
What is there to be said about the tool though? it isn't in our hands and we have nothing to base our expectations on.
As machine said, we have the vid. But notice in the vid that the devs never hint at what the limitations of the editor are, because I am certain that one way or another, there are limitations, we just don't know it yet and only find out the hard way when we try to mod something only to find out that we can't. that's how people get set up for disappointment, they buy into the hype, and fall under the illusion of perfection, so of course when what they get is obviously less than perfect, cue sad. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
Its amazing though how this thread has gone from Bashing EA to a flamewar about old and new C&C to somebody having a transvestite lover in what, three pages? Holy shit. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:48 am Post subject:
Oh God! I can't have a day off and this kind of crap happens. I'm tired of dealing with imaturity in this forum.
Anyway, Lt Albretch is banned for keeping trolling even after being suspended recently. This kind of lame behaviour is not tolerated here. I know that Moscow's Vengeance will definitely move out of PPM after that, but I'm tired of seeing you trolling all the time in this place, pretending to be a demi-god. This kind of action is pure n00bism, really. And I can't let this kind of behaviour contaminate the rest of the forum. Trully respectable people do respect others and that's how they get respected. Trollers are never respected in any online community or in real life. You should treat people in the same way you'd like to be treated. Would you like to be insulted whenever you talk about something that you are starting to learn about? I'm sure you don't want this kind of treatment, so don't do it with other people.
In the other side of the coin, Eaver is banned for racism. Prejudice at people because of their skin colour is plain ridiculous and not tolerable here either, even if it is a small PS in the end of the post. Skin colour, hair colour or eye colour are just visual differences. It doesn't make any difference in anyone's mind abilities, neither limits anyone from doing anything. Accept and live with differences. Everyone is different.
And I have no clue if any of them will be unbanned. Perhaps Eaver will. It's 2:11 am here and I'm quite tired to think about this.
And finally, how bout moving back to the topic... if I actually knew what is really relevant to talk about Blizzard's modding and mapping support for Starcraft II. As far as I could see, it is fantastic compared to any other company and not just EA. Last edited by Banshee on Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:12 am; edited 3 times in total QUICK_EDIT
On a separate note though, how soon after that SDK is released before someone does a SCII-based DOTA-style game? Could be interesting to see a sci fi twist on the popular WCIII spinoff mod
Personally I think the RPG-aspect described in the vid holds the most potential. Modders could potentially do a RPG-strategy hybrid... I also predict the first place the uberlisk shows up in would be as a boss in some tower defense mod... For me, as a modern warfare enthusiast I have fingers crossed for a TC-mod for SCII involving that theme, although given the futuristic setting, such a mod might be a tall order due to the need to also make the appropriate "civilian assets". Ditto for any fantasy setting mods. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
I think projects for SC2, won't be so hard pressed for 3d modelers. Like how WC3 has flourished with a grand variety of 3d material, from dinosaurs, spongbob, pokemons, anime girls, modern stuff, warhammer, doom3...etc. thx to hiveworkship and others.
granded many of them aren't professional quality work... _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
granded many of them aren't professional quality work...
You know these days professional don't mean that much about quality. Compare a unit model from EA's C&C 3 versus a unit model from MEC2 or Asylum and you'll see how it looks like when you compare certain non-professionals to the actual professionals in EA. In fact I personally feel that the days when only the professionals could give high quality stuff are over. we now live in a world where we pretty much have access to the same tools as the industry, 3DS max, photoshop, etc. it now all goes down to individual skill and proficiency, plus of course time, budget, etc. _________________
The white lady~! QUICK_EDIT
This is true. Hell, you can look in the voxel section and compare anything (sans Sevley's voxels) to Westwood's and see.
Though most devs(especially C&C) don't work on one set series constantly, with the same designs and same engine. I mean look at Halo 1's Warthog and compare it to 3's. Same design for how many years? Same engine. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
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