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Coming very soon: 3D Preview mesh effects!
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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banshee wrote:
I've committed the revision with a 'fixed' OBJ exporter. There are still some awful bugs to solve on it.

Note however, that I've splited the 3D Preview window in two. The 3D Preview Window's sole purpose is to preview what you are creating.

The second part of this split is the new 3D Modelizer, inside Tools. Its purpose is to prepare and exporter the finished volumetric voxel as 3D model. Note that once you open the 3D Modelizer, any changes made in the original voxel will be ignored by the modelizer.

For more information, check
http://svn.ppmsite.com/listing.php?repname=OS%20Voxel%20Tools&path=%2Fvxlseiii14x%2F&rev=186&sc=1



bsub_blender.png
 Description:
Boomer submarine on Blender, after a quick edit on bsub.obj
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bsub_blender.png



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Tony
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very cool. #Tongue

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ConMan
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Amazing! There are so many potential possibilities with this!

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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And now the program can convert quad based models as triangle based models. Using the 3D modelizer and converting quads to triangles...and then, renormalizing the mesh, you get the following effect (with Yuri Boomer):



Note 1: You can export .obj based in triangles as well.
Note 2: Quad to triangle conversion is only available at 3D modelizer. It might be added as a quality option later on both 3D Modelizer and 3D Preview Window.



bsub_000.gif
 Description:
Yuri Boomer with triangles and triangle based perfect normals.
 Filesize:  1.37 MB
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bsub_000.gif



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Dupl3xxx
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Isn't there a lot of "bumps" in the front end of that boomer? Or is it just my eyes Confused

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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yea, there are some bumps. This happens because interpolation algorithms does not solve all kinds of pixels discontinuities.

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Dupl3xxx
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Smooth out those bumps, and an improved edge detect and your (our? Laughing ) quest for perfect normals is over!

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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Things are not that simple, buddy.

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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Things are not that simple, buddy.


Perhaps they are not that complicated either. If I get one normal per vertex instead of normal per face, I get a hell of an improvement.

Note: the screenie below also includes colour smooth.



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raminator
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

leave color smooth out for remap
else you need to fix it manually

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Dupl3xxx
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

More improvement! yeah!

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ConMan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, that is amazing!

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Vertex normals are now correctly exported. Here's a sample of an Orca Fighter imported with Blender.



orca_on_blender.png
 Description:
Tiberian Sun Orca Fighter imported with Blender, using Vertex Normals.
 Filesize:  34.74 KB
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orca_on_blender.png



Last edited by Banshee on Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Deformat
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Joined: 17 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Do want. #Tongue

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And we have more improvements. This time, we have colours per vertex, instead of faces. It makes things much more smooth.


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raminator
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

looks better
but try something to prevent smoothing of remap so there´s no AA-effect

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Orac
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Would you mind showing us the effects of this on something squarer? Like the Disruptor, Battlefortress, Soviet MCV, or the Fist of Nod?

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And here we go:










And a bonus!


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suraj_geddam98
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Joined: 02 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome Banshee!

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ConMan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's too smooth for me to handle! Very Happy

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ViPr
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Joined: 30 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

can you use the voxel's stated normals somehow in the final mesh? anyway i think the viewer has lighting which is too subtle to notice the effect of normals by the way.

btw maybe you should look into COLLADA .dae for a model file format. it's supposed to be the new universal format for 3d models. i've considered supporting it myself although it may be really complicated and take a long time.

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Deformat
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Joined: 17 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Itsa nice,but don't make it THAT smooth(or at least give people a different option #Tongue )

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Guys, you can use the tool yourself. It's in the SVN:
http://svn.ppmsite.com/filedetails.php?repname=OS%20Voxel%20Tools&path=%2Fvxlseiii14x%2Fvxlse_III.exe&rev=0&sc=1


The smoothness is optional, just like anything there. The result can be a bit less smooth if I actually ReNormalized the mesh when I took these screenshots, which I was lazy to do.


raminator wrote:
leave color smooth out for remap


You can opt to not use it. But restricting it from remappable is a bit complicated at the moment. I'm making no restriction if a vertex belongs to a remappable area or not, specially because a vertex can be in a frontier.

ViPr wrote:
can you use the voxel's stated normals somehow in the final mesh?


The five latest pictures that I posted uses the normals stated by Westwood Studios. Of course I had to make a sort of an average to convert face normals to vertex normals.

ViPr wrote:
anyway i think the viewer has lighting which is too subtle to notice the effect of normals by the way.


Yea, I must admit that I haven't paid much atention to that. It uses the default settings from OS: Voxel Viewer. I'm not focusing on customizing lighting in the 3D Preview, neither the Modelizer. If I make a feature focused on rendering the voxel in a scene, then I'll take a look at the lighting.

ViPr wrote:
btw maybe you should look into COLLADA .dae for a model file format. it's supposed to be the new universal format for 3d models. i've considered supporting it myself although it may be really complicated and take a long time.


I'll take a look at that once I have textures. But could you try to use that in your tool as well? Because textures in .3ds sucks...

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ViPr
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, as far as i understand at the moment, any self respecting programmer working with 3d models should use the .dae format. so as long as i intend to be a game maker then i should use it and of course if i do program for it then that will be used in 3ds2vxl. the only problem is that because of my depressed mood nowadays and because of the other things i have to do for work i don't get much time to work on these things.

btw can you elaborate on all the things about .3ds that you do not like and maybe state how .obj might have some advantages over .3ds?

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ConMan
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread




RandomTank.png
 Description:
Taken in sketchup
 Filesize:  24.98 KB
 Viewed:  18716 Time(s)

RandomTank.png



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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The advantage of obj is its flexibility with the amount of vertexes per face, as well as its organization. .3ds forces triangles with one texture coordinate per vertex (which forces the creation of vertexes to not avoid loose data when dealing with textures). Perhaps it is not that bad... or it is even the ideal thing, as far as I've been researching recently.

Another thing that scares me with .3ds is how each program reads these files differently.

And finally, what's the version that I should fill it with?

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ViPr
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i don't know what version. i don't think i ever had to use that. can't you output some simple 3ds file from blender and see what version is written in the file using some code you can write.

btw i think .3ds does not have stored vertex normals. that's going to be a problem.

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll export a cube on blender to figure out the version.

Also, .3ds does not store normals at all, except at the normal map. But I don't think your program uses that #Tongue.

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Deformat
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Joined: 17 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

right,tested it...

Results below.This is rami's grizzly(its on his website).

Tested in 3dsmax 9.

Not quite the results I expected...



ztype.png
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ztype.png



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ViPr
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

.3ds does not support normals maps. in order to test my normals map code i had to support the Doom3 model format, except those used only tangent-space normals maps and not object-space normals maps as far as i am aware. supporting the latter should be much easier though.

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You are right. Just checking the .3ds specifications I've found in a site, I haven't found normal map support there.


Quote:
0xAFFF : Material block
-----------------------
0xA000 : Material name

0xA010 : Ambient color
0xA020 : Diffuse color
0xA030 : Specular color

0xA040 : Shininess percent
0xA041 : Shininess strength percent

0xA050 : Transparency percent
0xA052 : Transparency falloff percent
0xA053 : Reflection blur percent

0xA081 : 2 sided
0xA083 : Add trans
0xA084 : Self illum
0xA085 : Wire frame on
0xA087 : Wire thickness
0xA088 : Face map
0xA08A : In tranc
0xA08C : Soften
0xA08E : Wire in units

0xA100 : Render type

0xA240 : Transparency falloff percent present
0xA250 : Reflection blur percent present
0xA252 : Bump map present (true percent)

0xA200 : Texture map 1
0xA33A : Texture map 2
0xA210 : Opacity map
0xA230 : Bump map
0xA33C : Shininess map
0xA204 : Specular map
0xA33D : Self illum. map
0xA220 : Reflection map
0xA33E : Mask for texture map 1
0xA340 : Mask for texture map 2
0xA342 : Mask for opacity map
0xA344 : Mask for bump map
0xA346 : Mask for shininess map
0xA348 : Mask for specular map
0xA34A : Mask for self illum. map
0xA34C : Mask for reflection map

Sub-chunks for all maps:
0xA300 : Mapping filename
0xA351 : Mapping parameters
0xA353 : Blur percent
0xA354 : V scale
0xA356 : U scale
0xA358 : U offset
0xA35A : V offset
0xA35C : Rotation angle
0xA360 : RGB Luma/Alpha tint 1
0xA362 : RGB Luma/Alpha tint 2
0xA364 : RGB tint R
0xA366 : RGB tint G
0xA368 : RGB tint B

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ViPr
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the shaders, and hence the texture type support, for 3ds and even 3D Studio Max are pretty bad in my opinion; they don't make much sense and they are missing a lot of things.

nobody should feel bad if they don't understand them. i think a lot of programs (3d renderers and games) have this problem, and they all have slightly different interpretations of what the texture types are and what they should do.

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's exactly why all .3ds models that I've tested with textures did not work properly on any of these programs.

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey guys,


There are some updates with this research. There were fixes on the way the cubes were originally generated, which fixed many problems with the normals that were generated with the program and with other programs as well (see Deformat's picture above). I've also added a mesh optimization feature, among other effects for testing. Also, the models ignore inner voxels, which reduces the amount of faces and vertexes.

Here's some results (without normal smooth):


YR Yuri Boomer Submarine



TS GDI & Nod Mobile Construction Vehicle



RA2 Soviet Demo Truck




And here's my road map:

1 ) Transform pixels into vertexes. (done)
2 ) Interpolate the vertex positions. (done)
3 ) Interpolate the colours. (done)
4 ) Find the correct normals. (done)
5 ) Interpolate the normals. (done)
6 ) Smooth curved areas of the model by adding vertexes. (not done)
7 ) Build a texture atlas for the model. (not done and I'm stuck with that)
8 ) Generate diffuse texture. (not done)
9) Generate any normal map related texture (yet to decide between bump mapping, tangent mapping or any other solution) (not done)
10 ) Simplify/Optimize mesh (done)

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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

With today's revision, we had a major speed up in the code. I've modelized this monster sized voxel from Sane Disruption in less than 2 seconds, using only 78mb of RAM. In the previous revision, it would give me an out of RAM memory after 5 seconds... using over 4gb of my RAM.



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raminator
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

looks nice...but then...
it´s way to smoothed texture and remap has AA to other colors
but i think you will fix that or make it look even better #Tongue

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yea. The idea is that the normal map, which will probably be some sort of bump map, reduces this smooth effect in a later time. Regarding the remap, I'll figure out a solution for it later. To export it to Generals and C&C3, I'll have to split it in a different texture.

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crevio
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I dont mean to sound retarded or anything, but is the whole idea of this to make a 3d object from a voxel, then use it as a .shp? and also I tried it, I saved one of my voxels as an .obj, then imported it into Blender, but it didnt bring the textures with it. Did I do something wrong? or do I have to retexture it in Blender?

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DaFool
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

think beyond TS and Ra2 modding, if these can be optimized enough, they can be used in generals, and even TW/RA3 with even less optimization.

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@crevio: At the moment, it is not exporting textures, because it doesn't get the texture coordinates yet. It's not simple to do it and I'm working on it.

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Gravity
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey guys a simple question.
How can i convert a voxel to 3ds at myself?
Is this possible or whats the target of your work?

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Banshee
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is the target of my work.

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