Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:47 pm Post subject:
Faction Structure Lists (*)
Subject description: What each side has, and what a third/X-th side will need
Will messing around with my Forgotten faction, I though it would be a good idea to get some of the buildings and their dependencies figured out as a first, simply to enable the design process of the Forgotten Faction to go easier. Y'know, the basic "What is their equivalent of the Nod/GDI..." type of list.
Once I got that figured out, I though it might be worth sharing. I don't know how many modders are still doing extra sides, but I'm sure someone will find something in here that they think is useful.
Building Factory
It creates all your buildings, and can usually be deployed from a MCV of some kind. Extra factions usually have some funky trick for getting their respective MCV - I used a simple MCV clone belonging only to the Forgotten, and deploying into a unique MACNST instead of the shared Nod/GDI GACNST - but the end result, once deployed, is to have a building factory. An extra side would very obviously also need one, unless the faction has no use for buildings.
Nod/GDI shared: Construction Yard
Basic power generator
Post-deploying your MCV, this is the first thing that you will build in all likelihood. Cheap, small (2x2 foundation) and easily destroyed by anything from massed infantry to superweapons, these structures provide the power that you need to keep all your other structures functional. Without power, superweapons stop charging, your radar screen shuts down, most of your base defenses go off-line AND all power-dependent buildings start losing health. For an extra faction, following the small&cheap rule would be advised.
Nod: (Nod) Power Plant
GDI: (GDI) Power Plant
Infantry Factory
After the power plant, this one comes second. It's default tech level allows only the most basic soldiers to be deployed, and it is usually equally small&cheap as the power plant. Since you won't need as many of them as the power plant structure, having foundations slightly larger than 2x2 is entirely feasible. Do keep in mind that they need to be able to be built and deployed rapidly at a new/forward base, so making them large and very costly is usually not a good idea.
Nod: Hand of Nod
GDI: Barracks
Resource collection structure
This structure does three things:
1) it gives a free harvester unit to collect tiberium
2) it serves as a dock for the harvester, where it can unload the gathered tiberium and convert it into cash
3) it can store a modest amount of tiberium in the same way a tiberium silo would.
Because of their importance, these structures are large and costly (the price tag also has to reflect the free harvester, which creates the option of a free-harvester-less refinery perhaps?), and will take up a large part of your base. Multiple copies will be needed, and will need to be well-guarded against enemy attacks. Superweapons also have a way of being aimed near them, so giving them excessive health in order to avoid this syndrome might seem like a good idea on paper. In practice, making the main refinery unkillable will often provide a faction with a substantial advantage over other factions. Suggestions here:
- a cheaper refinery for Nod, with no free harvester?
- a mobile refinery for Nod, given their increased knowledge of tiberium compared to GDI
- a stealth refinery for Nod, with a cloaking radius covering only itself and any unloading harvester
- an armoured refinery for GDI, either armed itself, or giving an armed harvester.
All these would be in addition to the basic refinery, and could provide interesting late-game strategies.
Nod/GDI shared: Tiberium Refinery
Anti-infantry defense
A basic automated turret, used to back up infantry in defending a base against other infantry. The static nature of the weapon will be made up for by its increased range and damage compared to regular infantry-carried weapons, and in groups it will also be able to take out most lighter-to-medium vehicles. A small foundation is advisable, as you normally want to scatter them pretty much everywhere to deter anyone who manages to sneak in somewhere. Having a power drain makes them vulnerable to blackouts, and artillery will normally hammer them first to allow their infantry a chance when attacking. The structure's weapon should also deal instant damage (no arching projectile) to allow it to function around cliffs and tunnel entrances - having engineers sneak into your base because the defenses were blasting away at the terrain is never funny!
Nod: Laser
GDI: Component Tower + Vulcan Cannon
Anti-ground defense
A more advanced turret, still focusing only on ground targets, but with increased damage and range. This turret could focus on only one target type - infantry or vehicle - but idea is to have it as more of a supplement to the basic anti-infantry turret than as a complete replacement. If the basic turret targets infantry, this one should target vehicles; if the basic turret has a short range, this one should have alonger range but slower ROF. Think of it as a rapier/dagger combo - you want both, to cover at all ranges and not leave yourself exposed to a certain type of attack. These buildings can be larger, given the increased damage profile (and associated price tag), but once again - if you want to use many of them, making them too larger will be a severely limiting factor. Another limiter can be power drain - we all know what an Obelisk does to a power network.
Nod: Obelisk of Light
GDI: Component Tower + RPG Upgrade
Anti-air defense
Small, cheaper, and buildable in a rush to fend off aircraft that suddenly come out of nowhere. The damage should be light but substantial, AND also avoidable - running away from a trailing missile should always give the aircraft a chance to escape, instead of turning airstrikes into suicide runs. Instant-damage weapons could be done, but the damage would need to be much lower to compensate for the fact that this damage is "guaranteed" once the aircraft comes within range. Possible ideas could be:
- a Gatling tower for GDI, with a shorter range than the SAM site
- a flak cannon, firing instant cannon shots that deal light area damage
- a cluster missile launcher for Nod, where the missiles could end up shooting down into your own base (a la Reaper)
- a flak cannon using the cluster missile setup: first stage missile is invisible and very fast, and blows up in a large puff of smoke; second-stage missiles are also invisible, very fast, and blow up in smaller puffs of smoke. The net effect would be to have a single main flak burst, followed by a cluster of smaller shrapnel burst impacting around the aircraft.
Nod: SAM Site
GDI: Component Tower + SAM Upgrade
Solid anti-vehicle walls
Basic barriers for blocking out land units from entering certain areas, as well as protecting buildings from unwelcomed attention from enemy infantry with engineering kits or explosives. They can also be very handy in walling off areas that need to be protected from veinhole growth. Cheap but sturdy, these walls can be used for many things, although their main function is usually to reduce the amount of terrain available to land units to maneuver through, and force them to act accordingly. Nothing fancy is required here.
Nod: Concrete Walls
GDI: Concrete Walls
Gateway structure
A structure that allows friendly units to overcome, to some extent at least, the terrain-limiting aspect of the above-mentioned walls. They will automatically lower if friendly units approach, which is both a pro and a con - harvesters can enter and exit your base without needing intense micro-ing, but enemy units will also be able to enter once the gate lowers for a friendly unit. If you are adding custom gates to your faction, makes sure that you have both the \\ and the // types available. Also keep in mind that gates will be the weak point in any wall, as destroying them will leave a much more sizeable hole than blowing out a single chunk of wall.
Nod: (Nod) Automatic Gate
GDI: (GDI) Automatic Gate
Pavement
This 'structure' functions somewhat different to a regular building:
a) it cannot be sold once placed
b) it becomes part of the terrain once placed, which means that it cannot be destroyed.
The function of the pavement - preventing subterranean units from surfacing, and protecting the underlying terrain from damage deformation - means that the player will need to build and deploy many copies of this structure, which would in turn require a low cost and a large foundation. Giving pavement structures with smaller footprints - 2x2 or even 1x1 - is usually not required, as a smart player will know how to maximise the available area covered by each pavement deployment. The pavement can also be replaced by a non-pavement tile - e.g. grass, sand or even water (water has a problem creating the auto-shoreline, so using it will look slightly ugly in-game) can be used. While water will definitely block off subterranean units (and your own land units), grass or sand tiles will not be able to fulfill either of the functions of regular pavement, so including them in the faction's structure list would be unwise unless well-integrated.
Nod/GDI shared: Pavement
Vehicle factory
This structure will produce all the land vehicles available to the faction. From the weakest scout buggy to the strongest tank/walker, all will be available from this structure as successive tech structures are built. Due to their importance in this regard, these structures are usually expensive and have large foundations, much like the refineries. The Nod and GDI structures both have 4x3 foundations, and while smaller foundations are possible, the results are often not as clean as that of the 4x3 foundation. Something to keep in mind here is that even if the faction has multiple types of vehicle factories - e.g. a basic War Factory and then a more advanced Battle Factory - any vehicle belonging to faction XYZ will be buildable (exit from building once constructed) from any vehicle factory belonging to faction XYZ. This means that a vehicle requiring the Battle Factory could also be built from the War Factory, as long as the player still possesses a Battle Factory. Because of this, having multiple factory types is usually made redundant by the fact that a simple tech building could essentially fill the same role as prerequisite.
Nod: (Nod) War Factory
GDI: (GDI) War Factory
Radar structure
This structure is a rather important tactical asset. It does the following:
1) it (usually) activates the radar screen of the faction, allowing the player to see the minimap
2) it (usually) gives access to both air and anti-air units and structures
3) it (usually) consumes a sizeable chunk of energy to accomplish 1)
Due to these functions, a player will rarely need more than one of these structures, unless a backup or two are scattered throughout the base. A relatively middle-class price and a small foundation are advised, as most players will want one of these built within the first five minutes of the game. Removing the radar functionality from the structure will severely limit its uses, unless an interaction of some kind can be achieved between it and another radar-giving structure:
- a radar structure which does not activate the radar for the player, but instead allows him to build (or gives for free) a vehicle which can deploy into a radar-giving structure
- for CABAL, a Network Center which gives no radar, but gives a free Uplink Drone vehicle which can deploy into a 1x1 Uplink Station providing radar, a large energy drain, and no undeploy function
- for Nod, a Will of Nod command vehicle that can deploy to give radar access amongst other things
- for GDI, an Upgrade Center plug which provides radar and is the tech equivalent of the GDI Radar, GARADR, but draws more power.
Nod: (Nod) Radar
GDI: (GDI) Radar
Resource storage structure
This structure stores tiberium. Nothing fancy about it is required, as nothing more is required. A medium-sized footprint should be the maximum, as the player might need to deploy several of these without cluttering up the entire base. Engineers and superweapons will invariably be aimed in their direction, so protecting them - either with other units/structures, or by arming them - is advised. Some ideas:
- a Tower Silo for CABAL - tall, with a 1x1 foundation and the added function of being to heal infantry via the hospital function
- a Storage Warehouse for GDI, armed and with more armour than a regular silo, and with the option to be upgraded with a ligth anti-infantry weapon of some kind
- a Tiberium Bunker for Nod, with stealth properties to hide it from unwelcome attention.
Nod/GDI shared: Tiberium Silo
Advanced power generator
This structure is an improvement (energy-wise) over the basic power generator, but will also have its own limitations:
a) it will likely be more expensive
b) it will likely take up more space.
Using these structures is more of a mid-game strategy, but never should they completely replace the basic power generator - Nod cannot use only the Advanced Power Plant, as the regular Power Plant has a smaller foundation and can therefore be fitted into more confined spaces; GDI cannot use Power Turbine upgrades without first having a basic Power Plant to mount them in. These structures will also be much more common late-game, when the high-tech and superweapon structures all require masses of energy, so making them too large - more than 9 cells in the foundation - is not adviseable. Possible ideas:
- for GDI, a Thermal Borehole, with a 3x2 foundation and providing power equivalent to 1.5x that of a fully upgraded GDI Power Station
- for CABAL, a Solar Tower with a 3x3 foundation
Nod: Advanced Power Plant
GDI: (GDI) Power Plant + Power Turbine
Energy walls
Energy walls function like regular solid walls, except for some vital differences:
1) they draw power, which makes their deployment very dependent on your energy supply
2) they can be switched on and off at will, giving them a potential attack and ambush value
Otherwise, they are used in pretty much the same role as solid walls.
Nod: Laser Fence Post
GDI: Firestorm Walls
Aircraft factory
This buidling will construct the aerial units of the faction, as well as providing a reload function for those air units which carry limited ammunition (as most tend to do). As a factory type, these buildings will often be needed in larger numbers than infantry and vehicle factories, mainly because of this important reloading function. Their low cost and frequent employment would suggest a smallish foundation - 2x2 as regular - and modest power drain, along with only moderate health. Some possible ideas:
- a Subterranean Hangar for Nod, with increased health and a small cloaking field covering only the building and the docked aircraft
- a Fleet Helipad for GDI, which can be built on water to provide a 'secret' base for a squadron of aircraft
As with the infantry and vehicle factories, any aircraft owned by faction XYZ be built from any helipad owned by faction XYZ, so making a higher-tech helipad specifically to introduce a higher-tech aircraft would probably not be necessary.
Nod: (Nod) Helipad
GDI: (GDI) Helipad
EMP cannon
This structure is used mainly as a defensive weapon, although it can also be used offensively against an enemy base through the correct useage of MCV's and pre-built structures. The EMP effect unleashed at the point of impact will disabled both vehicles AND buildings, and will even cause affected power plants to cease generating power for a short while. With a foundation of 2x2, the building is somewhat more difficult to deploy than a regular 1x1 base defense, although this problem is largely overcome by the weapon's great range.
Nod/GDI shared: EMP Cannon
Tech structure
This building will give access to most of the higher-tech units and structures the faction will need after mid-game, especially the superweapon structures. This structure will usually function as a catalyst of sorts - it will allow many new things to be done, but will not actually do anything itself. Power drain will be moderate to high, and both the foundation size and cost will depend on the number of units that are directly dependent on this building to be constructed - i.e. the larger the limb of the tech tree that is unlocked by this building, the more important it will be (with a price to reflect). Like the radar structure, you will not need many of these buildings, so giving them a large-ish foundation (more than 6 cells) is entirely feasible.
Nod: (Nod) Tech Center
GDI: (GDI) Tech Center
Superweapon structure #1
This structure gives access to the 'first' of the faction's superweapons/-powers, and the only real rule of thumb here is that the price and energy drain of the building should reflect the lethality of the weapon it deploys. Other than that, the options are legion - the weapons could all be centralized, reducing the space they take up but making them more vulnerable to counterattack; the weapons could be spread out, taking more space and power but being more difficult to destroy; the weapons could be dependent on the presence of other buildings to function; the weapon could be Power=no, allowing it to be fired even in the event of a loss of power; etc etc. Superweapon structures also usually give a good indication of the type of effect they will unleash, which in turn is usually something quite faction-specific (apart from the shared Hunterseeker).
Nod: Missile Silo
GDI: Upgrade Center + Ion Cannon Uplink
Superweapon structure #2
This structure is exactly like #1, except that it gives access to the 'second' superweapon available to the faction. Apart from the shared EMP and HS superweapons, giving a faction more than three superweapons is often not a good idea, as it can quickly unbalance the gameplay and allow a single player to wipe out his opponent completely with a single superweapons salvo. Obvious exceptions to this rule would be superweapons that are not aimed at damaging an opponent, but rather at assisting the owner of the superweapon - e.g. GDI deploying Drop Pods to bolster their infantry ranks, or Nod unleashing an Ion Storm to prevent GDI aircraft from gaining air superiority.
Nod: Tiberium Waste Facility
GDI: Upgrade Center + Drop Pod Node
You don't need to go for this style of linear expansion. If you wanted to you could create some quite complex sub-trees for some buildings, possibly multiple tech centres, etc.
The main tree really only needs to be
Conyard-> Powerplant-> Refinery-> Barracks-> War Factory. All the rest can be isolated off from that tree.
But that is just my opinion.. QUICK_EDIT
You don't need to go for this style of linear expansion. If you wanted to you could create some quite complex sub-trees for some buildings, possibly multiple tech centres, etc.
The main tree really only needs to be
Conyard-> Powerplant-> Refinery-> Barracks-> War Factory. All the rest can be isolated off from that tree.
But that is just my opinion..
In certain special situations not even Barracks or War Factory is required Maybe I just want infantry.
On the other hand, this is a good tutorial, a theoretical one, but it gives a few nice tips to newbies what they should avoid and what is recommended. QUICK_EDIT
Nono, you misunderstand me, Orac - this is not about tech dependencies and all that, it's about what the structures DO, how the Nod and GDI equivalents are related, and what the rules-of-thumb appear to be (at least to my mind). Tech dependencies are something else. _________________ Adapt or die QUICK_EDIT
Yeah. But my point is that you can combine the roles of some of these buildings, or have multiple buildings for similar purposes. What ever you do, tech levels come into it just because that is a fundamental part of the game.
What I mean to say is that the rule of thumb is good, but modders should think outside of that at least a little bit so as not to simply clone the existing gameplay of TS or RA2, or whatever they are modding. QUICK_EDIT
Yes... But no-one wants to play a mod where the 3rd faction is so radically different from the vanilla factions that you spend more time figuring out how to get which units from which structures than you do actually enjoying the mod. A Radar is a Radar is a Radar. Ditto for the Barracks/ War Factory/ Helipad/ Refinery. I agree, a third faction should be different from the vanilla lot - but it should feel and play the same, if only to prevent it from sticking out like a sore thumb. _________________ Adapt or die QUICK_EDIT
Yes... But no-one wants to play a mod where the 3rd faction is so radically different from the vanilla factions that you spend more time figuring out how to get which units from which structures than you do actually enjoying the mod
This is your personal opinion.
Think about Starcraft as the perfect example for completely different sides that work perfectly fine.
On a different note. This tutorial needs more indepth modding information. Right now you can read all that in the manual too.
What it needs are the special keys that give a building a certain function and an explanation how these keys work.
Right now it's too wishy-washy imo. Nothing you can't figure out yourself if you plan your own mod and played TS long enough to know each building and its role.
Also test your suggestions if they actually work ingame, before you write them in a tutorial. e.g.
Askhati wrote:
Anti-air defense
- a flak cannon using the cluster missile setup: first stage missile is invisible and very fast, and blows up in a large puff of smoke; second-stage missiles are also invisible, very fast, and blow up in smaller puffs of smoke. The net effect would be to have a single main flak burst, followed by a cluster of smaller shrapnel burst impacting around the aircraft.
this is not possible. All the clusters won't explode in midair, but fall down and explode on the ground. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Hmm... Why would the clusters drop to the ground? I'm pretty sure I've seen a Reaper target air units, so why should the second-stage missiles fall to the ground instead of going after the targeted air unit?
As for Starcraft: completely different sides, yes. Follow different rules? No. There's a building for gathering resources. There's a building for making infantry. Ditto for vehicles and air units (Zerg blur this, but it it results in is more tech structures and a slightly more centralized factory system). There are some tech buildings that give upgrades and enable higher-tier units. There are some superweapon/-power buidlings. Everything falls into one of several broad classes, regardless of race, and THAT is what I'm trying to achieve here - identifying those classes, and expounding on their requirements/limitations.
And yes, adding the actual coding tags is an idea - but why spoonfeed it to them if they can just "figure it out" from the code itself, as per your advice?
I feel tempted to change the rating from (*) to (*/2)... _________________ Adapt or die QUICK_EDIT
Reaper split and cluster missiles are 2 different things
Reaper split missiles either choose an enemy unit which can be an air unit or if RetargetAccuracy is lower than 100%, they choose a random cell on the ground or a random unit in range which can be again air. But there is no way to tell the rockets to explode in mid-air. All missing rockets will explode on ground.
Cluster missiles are working quite similar as they randomly choose a cell on the ground and if an enemy air unit is in range they sometimes choose this as their target. But again, it's not possible to let them explode randomly in mid-air only.
My Rating for the tutorial would be ( ) 0 stars, as there is nothing complicated in it. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Hmm... What if the Reaper split missiles (2nd stage) use projectiles that are AA only, and with RetargetAccuracy=100%? Would they not then always go hunting for an airborne target?
As for the rating - see it more as a modding guide that any first-time modder should keep in mind when designing a structure list/tech tree for a new faction. Therefore, only (*) as it repeats 'obivous' things yes - but things that many mods seem to fail at.
As for (*/2) - that was sarcasm.
EDIT:
I tested the AA-only Reaper weapon, and it seemed to work. Some shots still came down to the terrain, but enough went after the aircraft (Harpy in this case) to kill it pretty quickly. So the flak cannon might be possible after all... *ponders* It's pretty RA2 though, so it could work for the Forgotten. _________________ Adapt or die QUICK_EDIT
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Faction Structure Lists (*)
Maybe I just want infantry.
Cool mod
BTW im new and i 
