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BS SHP Builder: MDI Progress #2
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:57 am    Post subject:  BS SHP Builder: MDI Progress #2 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Due to requests, I've changed the MDI Child design... now it looks like a PSP O.o... I hope you people prefer this way:



BS SHP Builder - Multi Documents 2.jpg
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What is that? Photoshop? Paint Shop Pro? Irfanview? No! It's BS SHP Builder full of windows!
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BS SHP Builder - Multi Documents 2.jpg



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stucuk
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Images shoud b centered in the window, with some background colour for the window, with a criss cross background (so the user can't confuse this with the editing bit)

Note: a statusbar in the window for the zoom and frame would b better, cos it just cluters up the bar of the window so u can't see the filename(or the frame number) on small windows.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the window size is fixed, now the image is centered. The image above was really rushed. As for Zoom and Frame... well, PSP does that with zoom and layer...what is happening here are that when the window is small, it trims the name. And status bar for frame and zoom will just complicate things... Anyway, I'm nearly done with my changes and I'll give you the source and post some documentation about this new engine as soon as I'm done, so you'll do the final touches Wink. Sorry for holding it for too long, but it was a tremendous change..

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stucuk
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a status bar for zoom and frame numeber is the sensible thing if u want one in the window.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nah... it will be harder to auto resize the frame in certain situations...

also, zoom and frame in the statusbar doesnt call as much attention as the zoom and frame in the caption do... and also zoom and frame in the caption uses less system resources and increases painting area...

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stucuk
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the caption area isn't the best place for it, the statusbar is. wtf u on about autoresizing, u ever heard of Statusbar.height??? its not hard. The painting area wouldn;t b affected since the painting area is not ever large so it isn't a factor. The "system" resources argument could also b if u never used the mci system the program would use less resources, this argument helps nothing. The simplest thing would b not use ur eyes n look at the left bar..... that would b the best saver of resoruces since the pc wouldnt b drawing as meny letters on the caption of the windows.

I strongly suggest u rename the program as Banshee Stucuk looks like we are partners.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

when you have several windows opened, the status bar usually gets hidden, unless you move all windows properly... the cascade setting of the problem makes caption already be visible. If it's trimmed, just increase the zoom. Is that hard? No... better than a damn statusbar... and that's the way PSP does with zoom and layer and it looks nice. Period.

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stucuk
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Do whatever u want to your program.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mine? not mine... that's a program being made for the CnC Community where anyone can work on. You complained at my original editing window.

I originally wanted:

-> frame and zoom in spin edits the top of the window
-> status bar in the botton of the window.
-> editing window between top and botton controls.
-> I actually wanted to add other buttons in the top bar of the editing window

You wanted:

-> centralized controls for zoom and frames
-> centralized status bar
-> clean editing window

Then, I tried to reach an avarage:

-> frame and zoom controls are centralized while its reference is in the caption of the window
-> statusbar centralized as you wished
-> clean editing window as you wished
-> top bar removed as I didnt wished.

Now you gonna complain that I'm ignoring you? Doing things only on my own? Give me a break, Stu!

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stucuk
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is no partnership. U changed the heart of the program without a care for what i thought(i remember u said something along the lines of "i want to make it so i will"), even my advice about waiting till v4 was ignored.

BS SHP Builder could have had about 3-5 more features if the mci was put on hold till v4, ppl could have been beta testing right this minute.

And when u change the heart of the program its always best for a compleate PLANNED rebuild, which u can't do at the end of a version.

And a programs arn't community work, they are a few ppls work wih several ppls ideas. I.e VXLSE is my work, wills work, koens work and plasmadroids. I have given up on BS SHP Builder, due to it not being a partnership (which is 2 ppl deciding the fate of something not just "banshee wants it so it happens").

If u want to get technical its proberly:
10% community
50% mine
40% yours

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
50% mine


- you mean:

10% community
45% mine
45% yours

Quote:
This is no partnership. U changed the heart of the program without a care for what i thought(i remember u said something along the lines of "i want to make it so i will"), even my advice about waiting till v4 was ignored.


- Your advice came too late, when I had no more backup of the source of the program in the old style. Anyway, you complain about so much about the change of the 'heart' of the program, when it actually took less than a month (against the one year you foreseen) and the big changes were some concepts... the rest of the program works in the same damn way, but now instead of using Form Main to store the main SHP Data and the editing data, we use an independent file to store the SHP data, the image1 is now in a different window with all variables related to it. So, Form Main only takes care of interface now and the pointers that indicate the current opened editing window and the current shp file being edited. So, what changed were things like:

FrmMain.SHP -> FrmMain.ActiveData^.SHP
SHPPalette -> FrmMain.ActiveData^.SHPPalette
UndoList -> FrmMain.ActiveData^.UndoList

FrmMain.ShadowMode -> FrmMain.ActiveForm^.ShadowMode
FrmMain.ActiveColour -> FrmMain.ActiveForm^.ActiveColour

There are few stuff made to avoid circular declarations, so FrmPreview and FrmSHPImage (the editing window) has a Data of the type pointer....

well, things might sound a bit weird, specially the pointer part, but I will put a detailed explanation on this matter soon.

Stucuk wrote:
BS SHP Builder could have had about 3-5 more features if the mci was put on hold till v4, ppl could have been beta testing right this minute.


- Actually, this MDI interface added inumerous features to the program. You are blind if you cant see that.

Stucuk wrote:
And when u change the heart of the program its always best for a compleate PLANNED rebuild, which u can't do at the end of a version.


- The reason we havent released the program yet is that we rebuilt that since the beggining. First, the SHP_Engine_Image. That file was a pain in the ass to work with, since its size was an absurd. We did cut the bull shit there and rebuilt the whole thing. The CCM engine was rebuilt by mel. The rendering engine was heavly patched and speeded up by me. You got pissed off at some changes, but you were complaining for a ridiculous cause, honestly... one darn new function? wtf is the problem, if the function is well used? But that Form Main was annoying me, because it was as big as that SHP Engine Image file in the beggining. I couldnt stand that file anymore, so I have rebuilt the heart, by changing some of the concepts, which changed the entirelly behaviour of the program. However, what controls this behaviour won't need to be touched in the future, since it's already done. The big difference lies in the way the shp files are created (AddNewSHPFile procedure or whatever I called that), in the way it creates a new editing window (FrmMain.GenerateNewWindow procedure... I think I can move that to shp data matrix too O.o), the way it load the settings of the window... instead of copying and pasting the same darn code in the import function, or in the new file function or in the open file, I've centralized everything to one function that is also in shp data matrix file and I forgot the name of the function in this moment.


Stucuk wrote:
I have given up on BS SHP Builder, due to it not being a partnership (which is 2 ppl deciding the fate of something not just "banshee wants it so it happens").


- We were working in the following way: You wanted to add a feature? Nice, you coded that and added that. I wanted to add a feature? Nice, I coded that and I added that. This is UNCHANGED! The difference is that the last thing I worked on changed some concepts... in the end, you will find them pretty easy to deal with and I know very well that you know how to deal with pointers... you've seen some of its usage previously in both vxlse and bs shp builder... and probably this quake engine use it too, or dynamic arrays, but pointers are a way faster for create and remove elements, while arrays are better for editing elements.


Quote:
And a programs arn't community work, they are a few ppls work wih several ppls ideas. I.e VXLSE is my work, wills work, koens work and plasmadroids.


- the target of this program is the CnC Community. Who will use it are the modders, not only us... we are having fun coding it...Remember that...same is applied to VXLSE and you know that very well.


Stucuk wrote:
I have given up on BS SHP Builder


- You do what you want, but I would be happy if you still worked on BS SHP Builder... anyway, I'll keep documenting it, in case you change your mind later or anyone else decides to work on it too...










And finally, instead of posting a huge ammount of bull sh*t like we are doing, contact me on MSN, so we can reduce this bull sh*t into a MSN window Wink.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and btw, I know you havent planned this MDI engine, but I PLANNED it very well... That wasnt something made randomly, really...

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stucuk
Geek


Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
- We were working in the following way: You wanted to add a feature? Nice, you coded that and added that. I wanted to add a feature? Nice, I coded that and I added that. This is UNCHANGED! The difference is that the last thing I worked on changed some concepts... in the end, you will find them pretty easy to deal with and I know very well that you know how to deal with pointers... you've seen some of its usage previously in both vxlse and bs shp builder... and probably this quake engine use it too, or dynamic arrays, but pointers are a way faster for create and remove elements, while arrays are better for editing elements.


That was adding features, not redesigning a part of the program that efects EVERYTHING. And the mci adds one feature the ability to have multipul windows, thats it. We could have made several features.

BS SHP Builder ahs NEVER been remade, the remake of the SHP ENGINE files, was just a shuffle around, nothgin was remade, just moves around.

Planning? When u plan a thing that effects everythign don't u normaly plan it with ur partner? Isn't ur partner kept compleatly uptodate?

The MCI wasn't rearly needed (to my knowlage ppl managed fine with multipul BS SHP Builders running), and at a late stage in development of a version you NEVER make a major change, this is anything that takes over a week, the "year" i said was an exageration, this is for several reasons:

1) if there is any probems the release is put off and off and off
2) at the start of a version you can spend alot more time on a big change without worrying about problems.

You also want to put anything that changes the workigns of the program onto the next version this is so you don't make the program have more bugs, having a stable program is much better than haveing extra tools but a buggy program.

In partner ships all big changes are ment to b discussed and planned together, not one person doing it, but both. It is for the simple reason its not a partnership(tho i thouhth it was) that i have given up on it.

BS SHP Builder was made mainly to see if i could make a SHP Builder (i say i rather than we since u had uni when the first verison was made) and secondly for the community. Programs are programmers programs, they may be for the community, but the programmers made them, thus the programmers work(with community ideas ofcorce).

The basic thing is, u change the way the program works, which effects everything, just because u wanted to, i was never involved in anything. This is not a partnership. I don't want to learn ur new system, i want a program we made not u, we. Partnership. The whole program should ahve been compleatly redesigned from SCRATCH, planned well, etc, and the mci would have been added then. not patched in. And this would have been done by both of us, not one of us both. But my suggestions/ideas/thoughts didn't count at all, even tho they would have been better than oen man rebuilding the heart. With a rebuild we could have made the program faster and better than b4. But it never was to b i guess.

P.S the reason i assigned more percentage to me than u was for the fact i programmed more, i made the SHP Engine Original and BS SHP Builder Original.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stucuk wrote:
mci


- Multiples Cocuments Interface? I know what Documents, but not what Cocuments means... could you explain that to me? #Tongue.

Quote:
That was adding features, not redesigning a part of the program that efects EVERYTHING. And the mci adds one feature the ability to have multipul windows, thats it. We could have made several features.


- EVERYTHING? No... not everything. The units are not affected directly by this. Only the forms, and on most of them only few things were replaced. In the end, it mainly renames some of the identifiers... other than that the program works in the same damn way. The part that was different I already finished and it's done, you won't need to change it at all, since it only affects the creation and destruction of windows and files. And it's actually much more simple than it used to be.... So, what has affected more the program was NOT the MDI engine. It was that I edited the SHPBuilder.dpr... and I talked to you about that. Instead of creating all forms at the beggining of the program, I made it create the form ONLY WHEN IT WAS NEEDED. This was what affected the frmsequencer and the frmpreview that you gave me. I had to merge the Form Create with Form Show and alter few functions to not allow them to run before the window opens...


Quote:
Planning? When u plan a thing that effects everythign don't u normaly plan it with ur partner? Isn't ur partner kept compleatly uptodate?


- I also reprove what I did in this matter. I decided to do that as an adition to the engine, but I didnt made a backup of the last working source, which was a fatal error. I tried to explain you the changes, but my first method failed. So, I thought that explaining you the changes of a code that may not work might be an idiocy. So, let the code work and Ill inform you. After the first failure, you refused to help me on this. You complained that you didnt know anything about MDI Child and when I asked suggestions on a new way I've explained the details of the situation in the forum and received no help either. Honestly, I didnt know how to deal with MDI Child either! Today, the MDI engine is working fine and I've found no bugs on this matter anymore. If you want, I can explain you now.

I have to admit that there were times where I thought about giving up of this MDI thing and patching your source, but I gave up after I noticed that the work would be longer and that I would miss a lot of things...


Stucuk wrote:
The MCI wasn't rearly needed (to my knowlage ppl managed fine with multipul BS SHP Builders running), and at a late stage in development of a version you NEVER make a major change, this is anything that takes over a week, the "year" i said was an exageration, this is for several reasons:

1) if there is any probems the release is put off and off and off
2) at the start of a version you can spend alot more time on a big change without worrying about problems.


- This would happen if the MDI Engine directly affected everything, but as I mentioned before, the biggest changes from MDI lies on renaming identifier. So, what is really affected by the MDI engine, the generation of SHP files and windows and their destruction works perfectly.


Stucuk wrote:
BS SHP Builder was made mainly to see if i could make a SHP Builder (i say i rather than we since u had uni when the first verison was made) and secondly for the community. Programs are programmers programs, they may be for the community, but the programmers made them, thus the programmers work(with community ideas ofcorce).


- For me, BS SHP Builder makes no sense if the C&C community wont use it. I know we want to have challenges and enjoy new programming adventures, but I am still priorizing the users. I personally think you are an egoistic programmer, no offense...

Quote:
This is not a partnership. I don't want to learn ur new system, i want a program we made not u, we. Partnership.


- We made BS SHP Builder. I just added a MDI engine to the program... it's better now.

Stucuk wrote:
P.S the reason i assigned more percentage to me than u was for the fact i programmed more, i made the SHP Engine Original and BS SHP Builder Original.


- In this case, a good part of these 10% goes to Will, Plasmaroid and Koen. BS SHP Builder originated from VXLSE. It's not something made from scratch, so your extra percentage doesnt justifies and do not disconsider my work... I might have started working with an entirelly strange engine which slowed me down at first, but now I'm on full power, coding as much as you...

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Sk8erkid
INSANE


Joined: 16 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I hate to say this but things are really starting to remind me of the LC incident a couple years back, I vote for you too just to settle your differences and work on this thing together for the community? If this was any two other people in any other forum I would "move" a few things around so its a little out of reach, but I'm going to give you both a chance just to get over this and stop bickering like old hens! Common it works in the movies lol, ya just both have to apologize for being a little out of line..?

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stucuk
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Joined: 27 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
- Multiples Cocuments Interface? I know what Documents, but not what Cocuments means... could you explain that to me? .


Wow i made a spelling error, your point?

You did change how the program works, the main part of the program is the MainForm.SHP.

Quote:
I decided to do that as an adition to the engine, but I didnt made a backup of the last working source, which was a fatal error.


I have the source codw without the MDI, funnily enough, so u don't have a point about not having source code since i can easily send anyone on this planet the source code.

When u have to change the preview, the sequence gen and basicaly everything else it is called a BIG change.

"- In this case, a good part of these 10% goes to Will, Plasmaroid and Koen. BS SHP Builder originated from VXLSE. It's not something made from scratch, so your extra percentage doesnt justifies and do not disconsider my work... I might have started working with an entirelly strange engine which slowed me down at first, but now I'm on full power, coding as much as you..."

No, BS SHP Builder originated from XCC, VXLSE had nothgin to do with the creation, it did however provide the flood fill, rectangle tools and brush's (except spraypaint which was amde by me), the rest of the VXLSE stuff that was transfered over was made by me. The community has put much more input into the program than VXLSE.

"but now I'm on full power"
Yes, but i still programmed more of the BS SHP Builder and SHP Engine, not that this means much.

"ya just both have to apologize for being a little out of line..?"
Err? For doing what? Im not the one who doesn't work like a partner, im not the oen who doesn't listen to the partner, etc.

"I hate to say this but things are really starting to remind me of the LC incident a couple years back"
Not at all, i don't h8 Banshee. I just can't work with someone that doesn't know the meaning of partnerships.

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stucuk
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is the source code b4 the MDI.

O look its a backup.... wow where did that come from?



SHP_Builder_stu_source_3_4_2004.zip
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ITS SOURCE WOW

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 Filename:  SHP_Builder_stu_source_3_4_2004.zip
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

stucuk wrote:
Quote:
- Multiples Cocuments Interface? I know what Documents, but not what Cocuments means... could you explain that to me? .


Wow i made a spelling error, your point?

You did change how the program works, the main part of the program is the MainForm.SHP.


Re-read this paragraph that I wrote. Pay attention to every single word.

Banshee wrote:
- EVERYTHING? No... not everything. The units are not affected directly by this. Only the forms, and on most of them only few things were replaced. In the end, it mainly renames some of the identifiers... other than that the program works in the same damn way. The part that was different I already finished and it's done, you won't need to change it at all, since it only affects the creation and destruction of windows and files. And it's actually much more simple than it used to be.... So, what has affected more the program was NOT the MDI engine. It was that I edited the SHPBuilder.dpr... and I talked to you about that. Instead of creating all forms at the beggining of the program, I made it create the form ONLY WHEN IT WAS NEEDED. This was what affected the frmsequencer and the frmpreview that you gave me. I had to merge the Form Create with Form Show and alter few functions to not allow them to run before the window opens...


Also I highly recommend you to read the Dev Info I took the whole night posting about the BS SHP Builder MDI engine, before saying bull sh*t like that.


Stucuk wrote:
Quote:
I decided to do that as an adition to the engine, but I didnt made a backup of the last working source, which was a fatal error.


I have the source codw without the MDI, funnily enough, so u don't have a point about not having source code since i can easily send anyone on this planet the source code.

When u have to change the preview, the sequence gen and basicaly everything else it is called a BIG change.


- You havent paid attention to this:

Banshee wrote:
I have to admit that there were times where I thought about giving up of this MDI thing and patching your source, but I gave up after I noticed that the work would be longer and that I would miss a lot of things...



Stucuk wrote:
"- In this case, a good part of these 10% goes to Will, Plasmaroid and Koen. BS SHP Builder originated from VXLSE. It's not something made from scratch, so your extra percentage doesnt justifies and do not disconsider my work... I might have started working with an entirelly strange engine which slowed me down at first, but now I'm on full power, coding as much as you..."

No, BS SHP Builder originated from XCC, VXLSE had nothgin to do with the creation, it did however provide the flood fill, rectangle tools and brush's (except spraypaint which was amde by me), the rest of the VXLSE stuff that was transfered over was made by me. The community has put much more input into the program than VXLSE.


- VXLSE influenced the interface of the program too... And although you coded the decoding thing, I helped you to learn the SHP files. And again, I repeat: That engine was entirelly strange to me, which slowed me down on the beggining.

Quote:
"but now I'm on full power"
Yes, but i still programmed more of the BS SHP Builder and SHP Engine, not that this means much.


- There is a difference between the Stucuk's way to make things and Banshee's way to make things Wink. You implement features extremely fast, but they are simple and limited. I add some cool extra functionality into it... you know that Wink.


Stucuk wrote:
"ya just both have to apologize for being a little out of line..?"
Err? For doing what? Im not the one who doesn't work like a partner, im not the oen who doesn't listen to the partner, etc.

"I hate to say this but things are really starting to remind me of the LC incident a couple years back"
Not at all, i don't h8 Banshee. I just can't work with someone that doesn't know the meaning of partnerships.


- Sk8erkid is right, Stu... in the beggining of my 'war' with LC, I didnt hate him either. Anyway, I'm a human, entitled to commit mistakes and I commited them, otherwise this problem would have started. I'm sorry. I wanted to implement some of the april's fools features in v3 because I sorta regret to fool so many people #Tongue... and I started it too fast, in a non-partenership way because I saw that originally as an adition, not as a rebuilt.

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If you are visually impaired or cannot otherwise answer the challenges below please contact the Administrator for help.


Write only two of the following words separated by a sharp: Brotherhood, unity, peace! 

 
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