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FS TiberCrater vs Tiber River 2356
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Origin
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 06 May 2004

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 11:09 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote

wow... a map with some random crap thrown together obviously without any thought behind it for playability nor graphical design.. add to that the most horrible lighting i've ever seen and a ton of graphical glitches on the map and.. i am amazed..
this competition truly was a joke..

edit:
he didn't even bother to sticky the cars.. they drive around when hit by units or ion storm lightning.. you really didn't test these maps out very much did you?

Last edited by Origin on Sat May 08, 2004 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Tesla7zap
Stormbringer


Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks a lot Mad
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Sk8erkid
INSANE


Joined: 16 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that you need to quit your damned insults Origin. If your going to give critisism make it constructive, I don't know if this is because your swore about making 7th place or what but there is absolutely NO way this comp was in any way rigged or bias. If this continues your posts may be edited or deleted upon arrival so I/we do not have to listen to it. You have been officially warned, please stop.
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Tesla7zap
Stormbringer


Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really dosent feel that I would won. If you read the news post it seems that Banshee wanted Phonic to win.

"if the categories were only Map Layout, Eye Candy and Playability. However, there is a smaller category called Trigger that gave the advantage to the map Tiber River 2356, from Tesla7zap"

3 categories versus one?

and on top of that, Origins damn posts on how bad the map sucked. I'd like to see your map, If I won and you just came on the 7th place, man your map has to suck hard.....
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Origin
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 06 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it didn't suck. i just think it should've been 3rd and not first. it does look like it has some good effort to it tho little thought and sloppy execution (what with the terrain errors and moving cars).

I'm attatching my extremely sucky map to this post. enjoy.


FSTiberCrater[2-4].mpr
 Description:
My sucky map

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 Filename:  FSTiberCrater[2-4].mpr
 Filesize:  261.69 KB
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The DvD
TiberiumWeb.com Webmaster


Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My judgement on FSTiberCrater by Origin (copied straigt from the text file i sent to banshee)

Map 0002

Map Layout: *** Very basic layout with 4 bases, each in a corner, with a lovely Tiberium Pit in the middle. Cliffs, when used, were done very well though.
Eye-Candy: **** Great night setting with a spooky feeling. Lots of tiberium plants. I liked these small civilian outposts, in the middle of terrain ravaged by Tiberium. Nice dirt roads.
Playability: *** Very standard TS gameplay. Equal resources for every player, which is good. It might have been a nice twist to remove those Blossom trees at the players' locations, to make the players battle for the Tiberium pit when later in the game. (That would give the pit actual use)
Triggers: - (No triggers available)
Overall: ***½ A great looking map without any special gameplay twists.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Froggy's:

Map 2
L 2
E 2
P 4
O 3

-no real detail
-same start corner on each side (just desert)
-nice tiberium light, but mostly green
-needs more unique building names
-cliffs done well and are detailed




Now, the final score is calculated on the following way:

Map Layout: (TheDvD + Froggy) * 3
Eye Candy: (TheDvD + Froggy) * 3
Playability: (TheDvD + Froggy) * 3
Triggers: (TheDvD + Froggy)
------------------------------------------------
Overall Score: ML + EC + PL + TR


In your case:

Map Layout: (3 + 2) * 3 = 15%
Eye Candy: (4 + 2) * 3 = 18%
Playability: (3 + 4) * 3 = 21%
Triggers: (0 + 0) * 1 = 0%
-----------------------------------
Overall Score: 54%
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Tesla7zap
Stormbringer


Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tested your map, it was quite good but it was really nothing special about it. One thing I wonder though... How did you put your own names on the buildings?
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SMIFFGIG
General


Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tiber crater is a cool looking map in FinalSun

shame its so symetrical, its just like a quarter of the map then mirrored 3 times, seems more like an RA2 map (which are generally mirrored)

still looks nice though, just to unrealistically and boringly mirrored
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Origin
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 06 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its symmetrical wich makes it fair. there are tons of details that are not the same. ayway its a high quality map with good terrain well thought out and fair layout good lighting and no gfx errors as oposed to most of the other maps in the competition. if i was a judge i'd give maps with graphical errors 100 minus points cause god its so sloppy and horrible but maybe that's just me.

edit:
oh and its a spaceous map wich allows for room to maneuver and avoids pathfinding problems. the starting areas are very nice and flat and big because that's good for a starting area. the most noob mistake ever in map design is to make too little room and too many obstacles in the starting areas making the place a bitch to build in (a mistake many in the competition did)
froggy calls this lack of detail wich is absurd. the map is highly detailed but built with thought, and room is left in places to enhance gameplay. space was also left just around the crater to allow people to build expansions there later in the game (but as a balancing factor the spots are vulnerable due to adjacent cliffs). for unlike the dvd said, the tiberium in your starting position does run out, even though there are blossom trees. how much did you test this map? 3 minutes? i could go on and on but i won't bore you that much.

so what's my point with all this? do i want the results changed? of course not, I'm not stupid. what i'm trying to say is that quite frankly you guys sawk at judging maps. i know i sound like a bad looser but if i would've been beaten by maps that weren't utter crap i would not have uttered one word. the only maps above mine who seemed to have had any kind of thought behind them was search and trauma. all but 2-3 had severe graphical glitches. few were fair and balanced. and only 2 even tried to make any kind of decent lighting (and one of them, tesla, failed horribly and made the map look horrible instead with his random red spotlights everywhere). many had neutral units wich totally destroys the gameplay (whomever attacks the units is at a disadvantage so noone will and instead they will use air/tunneling units etc. only and ground combat will be at close to zero, this is already a big problem with the gameplay in ts and making it worse through huge neutral settlements and tiberium lifeforms across the map just shows a great lack of thought with the map and its playability.

it all just makes me wonder how you thought when you tested these maps.. you couldn't have taken it very seriously could you? for an example, teslas map has a bridge leading to an abandoned cnc1 base on high ground. he also has the kodiak crashed on an inaccessable low ground corner. both of these are small but obvious examples that he had no thought or plan for the gameplay of his map but merely put out some "cool stuff" here and there. in short, he made zones on his map that no unit will ever travel to because there is nothing there of interest and it leads to nothing of interest, thus simply wasting map space. he wasn't the only one either. someone (i forgot whom) had almost the entire western part of his map totally obsolete. another one most of the northeastern side. you see there is a huge difference between a map that has been carefully planned out and a map where the author is simply trying to make some "cool" landscape and couldn't care less about gameplay. but you judges don't take such things into account do you? you think more along the lines of "oh cool! pretty red lights at random throughout the map!!!!11111one" or am I wrong? this is just how i see it from my perspective.

if i sound like an asshole, i apologise. i really am an ok guy (no, really). I just feel i've been handled really unfairly in this competition wich just hit a switch on me somewhere sending me into bad mood asshole mode Smile

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Tesla7zap
Stormbringer


Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I just feel i've been handled really unfairly in this competition wich just hit a switch on me somewhere sending me into bad mood asshole mode


Yes, you should be send to prison!

You're a bad loser, no matter of what you say, you sound like a map guru but you're really not.

You really try to see the negative thing in EVERYTHING and not a single positive thing, at all.

Edit: Can someone please ban this guy for a week or something til he learns some manners. Me and I think a lot of others is sick of his "My map is the best in the world and it's impossible to have a better map than my map and everybody elses maps are so bad they can be".
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Mike
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i could not agree more i demand an ip ban
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Sk8erkid
INSANE


Joined: 16 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Origin, im not going to waste my time quoting parts of your long posts to reply to each seperate complaint but the thing about how things seem random and pointless is because alot the people who were in the top 5 went for REALISM in their maps. And in real life things are not perfect and symmetrical. Dude, making things "more fair" like you said is so easy when every corner is identical but when you have strange uneven terrain it really takes alot of thought to make the starting positions even with their own advantages adn disadvantages
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SMIFFGIG
General


Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

u cannot ban Origin, his map was good and his point is ok, but the fact that his map was bascially 1 quarter of a map mirrored is very RA2ish and not something I for 1 (and im sure many others like) i think in future you u should make your maps non-symetrical and they would be much much better.

Origin do u play Tiberian Sun Retro.????
Cause there is a TSR map competition comming up shorrtly with many new terrain features that will be included which will add much effect to maps

I would love to see you partatake in this map comp but not make such a symetrical map, and make it more exciting an random Smile
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Fremen5
Commander


Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Location: Laughing at Donald Trump in a rather flat place

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orgin, your'e map was good, but the layout was kinda boring 'cause it was symetrical.
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Origin
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 06 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the main layout was symetrical. not any details whatsoever. so anyway i take it you value "realism" better than gameplay then? awesome..

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm gonna short my reply into this link, that I recommend Origin and all those who want him banned to read:

http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4133

And Origin, negative criticism doesnt take anyone anywhere. I know you are pissed off because your map wasnt the 1st place, but we are all here to learn, not to fight against each other. Next time, try making a map less symetrical and with more details and you will have more chances to get a better score and maybe win and also... do not underestimate other people here... Tesla7zap showed he has some great mapping making skills and deserved the victory. His map really ownz.
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Origin
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 06 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im not pissed off because my map wasn't first. im pissed off because it got a lower score than some really horrible maps while not being a horrible map at all (but aparently in this part of the world a semi-symetrical map is horrible).

oh and tesla. i admited it already no? no need to rub it in Smile
i still think i do have some very good points.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we will not change any rating. If your map didnt scored what you expected, try learning with your mistakes instead of criticising everyone else's map.
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Origin
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 06 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i thought i said i didnt want anything changed.
and i did nothing wrong with the map so no mistakes to learn from there. i guess my only mistake was to think this competition would be anything worth nothing.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mappers are not perfect. They always commit mistakes. Dont be blind to think you own the truth... that might be the kind of map you like, but it doesnt mean that everybody thinks like you... The Map Layout and the Eye Candy category are certainly affected by the element realism...
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Origin
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 06 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes but that is an opinion. from all technical aspects my map was perfect or close to it. hence no mistakes made. i guess i just picked the wrong style Smile oops! too bad you didnt say so in the rules.. semi-symetrical maps will receive bad ratings!!! warning warning!!!

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Joyotoki
Civilian


Joined: 09 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question. Did the judges actually play each map before rating them? I think that would be the only fair way to give a valid opinion. After all, the maps are meant to be played, no?

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The judges played all maps as far as I know.
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Origin
Vehicle Driver


Joined: 06 May 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh well im gonna stop now. i just wanted to have it said. now it's said and you dont seem to take anything to heart but oh well. i can understand it seeing the way i acted. try to look past my asshole'ish ways tho and look at my arguments and maybe you will be suprised. have a nice day.

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The DvD
TiberiumWeb.com Webmaster


Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok here goes..

Origin wrote:
its symmetrical wich makes it fair.


That's a real easy way of making is fair..

Origin wrote:
there are tons of details that are not the same.


Well, random terrain detailing is not too difficult, i also use it in my maps just to fill space, but TS's possibility's for terrain are limited, so as with any TS map you see similar stuff everywhere.. not your fault though Smile

Origin wrote:
anyway its a high quality map


Thanks for removing the need to judge Wink

Origin wrote:
with good terrain


The tiberium pit looks good, yes, but the terrain around it is flat and boring..

Origin wrote:
well thought out and fair layout


Like i said the basic layout is very simple but the Tiberium pit is better
. It doesn't have any use though as there's plenty tiberium at the bases.. and you said they do run out. Well here they don't, unless i use more than 10 harvesters ??

Origin wrote:
good lighting and no gfx errors as oposed to most of the other maps in the competition.


While i think the lighting is indeed nice, it's nothing special. You DO have a point though with the terrain errors, you map doesn't have any as far as i've seen, as opposed to certain other maps..

Origin wrote:
if i was a judge i'd give maps with graphical errors 100 minus points cause god its so sloppy and horrible but maybe that's just me.
That's indeed just you.

Origin wrote:

oh and its a spaceous map wich allows for room to maneuver and avoids pathfinding problems.


I've made very complex maps that don't have any pathfinding problems so this is BS... and room to maneuver is not necessarily a good thing...

Origin wrote:
the starting areas are very nice and flat and big because that's good for a starting area.


Again, a personal opinion, i agree the space should be too small (like in Wes.com's map, but it does add a special twist when done right.

Origin wrote:
the most noob mistake ever in map design is to make too little room and too many obstacles in the starting areas making the place a bitch to build in (a mistake many in the competition did)


Oh, the mapping god declares this a 'mistake'?? Come on, by your logic all maps should be symmetrial plains...

Origin wrote:

froggy calls this lack of detail wich is absurd. the map is highly detailed but built with thought, and room is left in places to enhance gameplay. space was also left just around the crater to allow people to build expansions there later in the game (but as a balancing factor the spots are vulnerable due to adjacent cliffs).


I agree with this although there could be some nice stuff near the borders of the player area but i'm nitpicking..

Origin wrote:
for unlike the dvd said, the tiberium in your starting position does run out, even though there are blossom trees. how much did you test this map? 3 minutes? i could go on and on but i won't bore you that much.


I would need more about 10 harvs to make it run out..

Origin wrote:
so what's my point with all this?

Good question...

Origin wrote:


and only 2 even tried to make any kind of decent lighting


what a nonsense, There where tons of maps with good lighting, Dad a Tude's map and Wes.coms, map and Tratos' map...

Origin wrote:


(and one of them, tesla, failed horribly and made the map look horrible instead with his random red spotlights everywhere).


I didn't like those either, they looked too artificial but it's a nitpit, calling it horrible doesn't make people take you too serious..

Origin wrote:
many had neutral units wich totally destroys the gameplay (whomever attacks the units is at a disadvantage so noone will and instead they will use air/tunneling units etc. only and ground combat will be at close to zero, this is already a big problem with the gameplay in ts and making it worse through huge neutral settlements and tiberium lifeforms across the map just shows a great lack of thought with the map and its playability.


Ok, this is COMPLETE CRAP. Why on earth do you think these civilian units and settlement are there????
And besides, are these so powerful? they're just infanty, i can easily beat all infantry on Changed Tacticts with two disruptors..
Also it's fun to kill them and makes for a realistic and varied look.

Origin wrote:
it all just makes me wonder how you thought when you tested these maps.. you couldn't have taken it very seriously could you? for an example, teslas map has a bridge leading to an abandoned cnc1 base on high ground. he also has the kodiak crashed on an inaccessable low ground corner. both of these are small but obvious examples that he had no thought or plan for the gameplay of his map but merely put out some "cool stuff" here and there. in short, he made zones on his map that no unit will ever travel to because there is nothing there of interest and it leads to nothing of interest, thus simply wasting map space.


I guess he wanted to fill up empty space. Is that a problem? And yes, the corner are not used but your map's corners are because that's where the bases are....Rolling Eyes

Origin wrote:
he wasn't the only one either. someone (i forgot whom) had almost the entire western part of his map totally obsolete. another one most of the northeastern side.


That's called a realistic environment...And it's better than nothing, right? I'm referring to the inter-base space of your map here, partially.

Origin wrote:
you see there is a huge difference between a map that has been carefully planned out and a map where the author is simply trying to make some "cool" landscape and couldn't care less about gameplay.


If you desperately want ultrafair gameplay that's always the same, yes then we need 'carefully planned maps' (just four bases in a corner and tib in the middle)... sorry but i'd like to see every map have differences in look, like all people do unless you're a cyborg or something.

Origin wrote:
but you judges don't take such things into account do you?


No, we never mentioned any gameplay aspect at all in our reviews...Rolling Eyes

Origin wrote:
you think more along the lines of "oh cool! pretty red lights at random throughout the map!!!!11111one" or am I wrong? this is just how i see it from my perspective.


when placed right they are not at random at will create a so-called atmosphere that is different for every map.

[quote="Origin]"if i sound like an asshole, i apologise. i really am an ok guy (no, really). [/quote]

Luckiliy i'm old enough to understand there's a nice person in everyone, but you just made a baaad entry at PPM..Wink

Origin wrote:
I just feel i've been handled really unfairly in this competition wich just hit a switch on me somewhere sending me into bad mood asshole mode Smile


How old are you? (no, seriously?)

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