Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 2:34 am Post subject:
Things to take note about Orca Transport?
Hi
Simply making Orca Transport buildable can be problematic. I observe that the transport sometimes hovers in the air, having its target line insanely changing to different positions.
I first made a copy of the transport so I won't mess up the original one. I've then tried adding a Airdummy weapon to the transport. I've tried tweaking Category= (doesn't make sense, eh?).
So what are some notes to take about making a workable Orca Transport? Is there a working code lying around in these forums?
Hey Lin, in your TI, you used the orca transport. You said they are able to pick up enemy units in a forum post manual, so from v2.0 onwards, what exactly happened to the logic about CarryAll= tag? QUICK_EDIT
Well, first it's not my TI. I'm one person in a great team with Aro the leader and me the co-leader.
Second, i fear i can't follow you. Can you point me to the topic where i said that?
I don't remember that i have said, that carryalls are able to pick up enemy units.
Third, afaik wasn't the CarryAll logic changed in any way during the update from 1.17 to 2.00. The aircraft logic was changed in general, which broke the air-transport, since it has no special logic key like "IsAirtransport=yes" and is using the basic transport logic that also vehicletypes use. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I'm not sure, but didn't the logic break as a side-effect of fixing another bug, where aircraft was able to land at water at the top edge of the map? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I thought that too, but afaik was this fix already done during the 1.13 to 1.17 update and not in the 2.00 update. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Second, i fear i can't follow you. Can you point me to the topic where i said that?
I don't remember that i have said, that carryalls are able to pick up enemy units.
Sorry. You didn't say it but I believe people in your team said it in this post:
Orca Transport: This unit can carry up to 5 Infantry passengers anywhere on the battlefield.
Note: This unit is currently using the Carry-all workaround logic so it can also pick up enemy vehicles, I trust people not to abuse the issue in-game though.
And my question was unclear. Sorry about that.
So the Orca Transport can be made to work using "the Carry-all workaround logic". I'd just like to know what's that? QUICK_EDIT
Oh, seems you found a mistake in the guide. Well of course it can't carry enemy vehicles, but since it's using the carryall logic to make the infantry transport work, it can carry player vehicles too.
We use the Carryall logic in TI, since this is the only way to have a working airtransport with as few as possible sideeffects. All other workarounds (*) still have a lot of sideeffects which would have made the airtransport unbalanced. Using the carryall logic, the only 2 sideeffects are, that it can transport a vehicle too and that it unloads one infantry after the other and each on a different cell.
(*)e.g. vehicletype with air/jumpjet locomotor
or aircraft transport with weapon _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
If there would be a way to make the AI target them automatically, i would be definitely supporting them too. Especially with your railgun and/or superjoe's jellyfish workarounds. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
By any chance because you came up with the idea? In my opinion, none of the workarounds are worth using with their current side-effects. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
I went for a combination of a vehicle which looks like a cargo/infantry carrier, acts like an APC and can't move, which combines well with the Carryall to form an transport of sorts. It's an interesting option, but probably only if you're giving GDI a more modular style in their units too. QUICK_EDIT
Yep, that is one of the best ideas to get around this problem by adding at the same time a great new gameplay feature. I would have loved to add this to TI, though ZoidZilla wants to keep it Tiberian Fall exclusive. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I tried to mess a little with the orca transport again. Didn't find anything really useful, but I managed to create a slightly altered version of the weapon + paradrop logic. Instead of dropping the infantry out, the transport lands to the location where you fired, and you can empty it as you would normally do. But it's still too buggy, have to force-fire the ground or attack a target, and if you don't force-fire / attack, the transport goes to the insane mode. You can reduce the weirdness a little by giving Dock= key every building GDI has, so it should always at least head back to base, not to your closest units.
I did find out something useful. If you give an aircraft SlowdownDistance=100, or up to 120, it will land really quickly instead of taking its sweet time positioning its ass correctly. With this key the Carryall logic should empty all 5 infantry out a bit faster. It might even be a good idea to give this value to all air units, it makes them more controllable. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Yep, that is one of the best ideas to get around this problem by adding at the same time a great new gameplay feature. I would have loved to add this to TI, though ZoidZilla wants to keep it Tiberian Fall exclusive.
Shame, I thought of this idea for a mod years ago and was going to add it to one of my mods, but somehow it's magically copyrighted by ZoidZilla, even though the idea is a clearly presented capability of the dropship anyway. Not to mention the US Army experimented with the idea using their Sikorsky Skycrane.
I don't think you can claim ownership over the game logic in any way. Because in the end, unless it involves private executable modifications, anyone can implement those features in one way or another once they know how. Only thing you can do in attempt to keep some of the mod features exclusive is not to tell others how you did it. In case someone else manages to figure it out on their own, you'll just have to deal with it.
Of course one can choose to not use same ideas as others already have out of sheer respect if the person who originally came up with wishes to keep it exclusive. I don't think anything is going to oblige people to do so, though. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
What if we created a pod with a move speed? That changes everything!
I think that copyrighting code is a bit ridiculous, copyrighting image assets isn't. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
If this works the same way in TS as it does in YR, then it doesn't. Basically the unit still tries to move but since it can't do so according to it's speed, it gets stuck to the moving state or something like that unable to perform any actions. Somebody else might know and be able to explain better, though. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
There is a work around, but it only works on pre-placed units. If you restrict a unit's movement zone to railroad or some other terrain it will not be able to turn. This has uses for things like voxel container crates like the one's in TS:AE.
Setting ROT to 0 doesn't address this issue either, and when a vehicle with movespeed and ROT set to 0 is built from the war factory, it won't exit, forcing you to sell the WF. Once it is out, it will not turn when told to move or attack. However, once you pick it up with a carry-all, the bug occurs again.
And don't even get me started about the bugs and weird behaviors of the "pod" if you allow it to carry infantry. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
A vehicle with ROT=0 will behave like an infantry when turning; in other words it'll instantly face the direction it intends to go in without actually turning to face that direction first. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Once, it will only do it once, after you move it with a carryall.
If a vehicle being built from a warfactory has a speed of 0 and a ROT of 0, it will not exit the war factory. Once the war factory is sold, the unit will not be able to move nor will it rotate, however, it can be picked up by a carryall. Once you set it down again with a carryall, it will be able to turn ONCE. After it attempts to turn once, it will no longer be able to be turned until you pick it up again with the carryall. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
There is a work around, but it only works on pre-placed units. If you restrict a unit's movement zone to railroad or some other terrain it will not be able to turn. This has uses for things like voxel container crates like the one's in TS:AE.
Wouldn't it be possible to make self-destructing invis buildings that have them as FreeUnit? They would just appear on the building side of the sidebar, but wouldn't that kinda make sense too if they can't move? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Location: C:\Westwood\ TechLevel=12
Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject:
SuperJoe wrote:
Regulus wrote:
There is a work around, but it only works on pre-placed units. If you restrict a unit's movement zone to railroad or some other terrain it will not be able to turn. This has uses for things like voxel container crates like the one's in TS:AE.
Wouldn't it be possible to make self-destructing invis buildings that have them as FreeUnit? They would just appear on the building side of the sidebar, but wouldn't that kinda make sense too if they can't move?
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Things to take note about Orca Transport?
In my opinion, none of the workarounds are worth using with their current side-effects.
Exhibit Two
