Cat MBT? TF only has the prowler, which is the only tank afaik.
But no, the TF assets won't replace anything. They only enhance TI. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Oh, i totally forgot about that. But still no, this won't replace anything. Especially since such a conventional tank wouldn't fit a railgun tank.
However i think ErastusMercy or Shin Peter Pan will sooner or later make a much better voxel for the railgun tank. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I actually meant not only replacing the voxel, but also the entire tank including weapon, because the railgun is 'off' the timeline for TI. Heck, technically, you guys made GDI more advanced than Nod on the weapon department, though that was not intended at all . Railguns require much more sophisticated technology to work properly than lasers do, actually. QUICK_EDIT
How so? Railgun weapons already exist in real world (although they don't fire a sparkly yellow beam), and laser weapons as they appear in TI do not. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Northrop Grumman has already a working prototype of a 100KW laser, which is powerful enough to destroy tanks or planes. Considering they can keep all specifications secret, I guess it is at least smaller than the railgun prototypes, which are larger than BATTLESHIPS!
Railguns have not only power consumption and recoil issues. You shouldn't forget it works with two electromagnetic rails, which are quite bulky and produce a lot of heat, so it will require some very bulky heatsinks. On top of that, the barrel life is very short, some ten shots or something, and unlike old-fashioned battleships, you have chances only relining the barrel isn't enough and then you can wait for a new barrel, which is in the case of the railgun also an expensive one due to the nature of the weapon.
A laser will also produce a lot of heat, but around a smaller mass (the weapon has lower weight and isn't so goddamn bulky), so less heat sinks will be needed. Also, it doesn't need as much power.
Yes, the laser itself is technologically more advanced than the railgun. But it is less bulky and requires less sophisticated technology in the form of powerplants, heatsinks, barrels and recoil breaks than the laser does... Therefore, a laser is technologically less advanced when it comes to practical wartime use.
The Ion Cannon Space Sattelite has only one of those issues - power consumption - space isn't even much of an issue considering it is possible to build such a thing step-for-step, like the ISS. Heck, if humanity wanted, we would have such a thing operational. Price is an issue, but considering only one is enough to give a decisive advantage, well... QUICK_EDIT
Its also a game where whole military bases are built in seconds.
But anyhow in a world full of tiberium and constant conflict, scientific progress would increase sharply and thus miniaturisation, industry etc.
The public information test versions are big but in the future they would be deployed in much smaller vessels otherwise the navy would have abandoned it a long time ago.
You pretty much just said it yourself lasers are the superior weapon because they are more reliable, require less power to operate and are more cost effective.
However, since TI is a sci-fi real world restrictions may have been overcome due to the arrival of Tiberium, GloboTech may have developed some new alloy derived from their Tiberium research, which they found makes for longer lasting and more cost effective rails. Even the power requirements wouldn’t be to much of an issue in such a world, I could see it using Tiberium/Ion power cells.
As Dr.Mobius once said, “the possibilities of Tiberium are limitless".
Edit: Nice avatar AG _________________
"And Cain went out from the presence of The Lord, and dwelt in the Land of Nod, east of Eden."
Indeed, bases are built in seconds. Let's leave that fact alone I did.
Also, yes, war and a world full of weird crystals causing massive environmental damage would indeed increase research greatly.
But we're derailing this topic; the initial point was that GDI was intended to be less advanced than Nod, while railguns are more advanced than lasers, and that, partly for that reason, the railgun tank should be entirely replaced with the Cat MBT.
(another reason is that deploying a unit removes crate effects like firepower upgrades, and as I said before, I'd rather have a Mammoth X67 than a Railgun Tank for that reason, and maybe GDI needs a specialized AA unit or a multipurpose unit which does not require something silly like deploying).
This even leaves the question if it is possible to mount them in tanks around the year 2019 aside.
@ErastusMercy: Don't forget everything said about energy production for the Railgun goes also for the Laser... this goes definately both ways. QUICK_EDIT
(another reason is that deploying a unit removes crate effects like firepower upgrades
Are you even sure on this? Because veterancy is retained in TS.
Also since TI is based on a Nod victory, the modders have free reign on what tech should be developed or "exist" at that time period.
Its like saying its impossible for soviets to be fielding a tesla coil in 1950's which may well be true but westwood screwed that logic.
@ ErastusMercy thanks I added you to msn :p _________________ Last edited by Allied General on Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Indeed, and a pair of fully upgraded well-controlled scatterpacks can easily deal with a single railgun tank... Especially if they caught it in its deployed state and when supported by an Orca fighter.
I actually favor using X67 Mammoth Tanks over the Railgun tank in actual combat... says something I guess. X67's are much more useful and don't worry as much about deploying and can much easier swap targets. And they're more useful against those infantry pests.
And I still find railguns silly things. Even moreso with the railgun commando! (it is physically impossible to carry a railgun).
Strangely, the Stealth Gen doesn't bother me as much as the railgun tank, while this is physically impossible (stealth requires structural changes in the things you want to be cloaked) unlike a railgun tank. Maybe because the Stealthgen was already in vanilla but the railgun tank was not?
I still don't get how my freakin' brain works at times, lol QUICK_EDIT
And I still find railguns silly things. Even moreso with the railgun commando! (it is physically impossible to carry a railgun).
Ghoststalker from vanilla TS says hi which is is even more impossible if you consider their Forgotten who use salvaged tech but really don't go down that route.
We have miniaturised nuclear bombs into suitcases, I doubt its impossible.
More importantly it adds variety to gameplay and possible tactics.
Finally all units have counters - your example was horrible. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Idd, but that my horrible example (which it definately is, let's face the truth) is enough to kill a sole railgun tank already says enough, I guess... especially because none of those units are designed to take the railgun tank head-on. With fully powered Scatterpacks and some Orca Fighters behind I usually take the gamble and do it. Usually I lose a single Scatterpack, but so what. That railgun tank is destroyed. Especially in low-tech games you deny your opponent of a powerful unreplacable unit.
And yes, Ghost Stalker fucks off with realism, but I started to hate his railgun especially since I blew my own disruptors up with him by accident because I was doing something else when the AI attacked my base. Line-of-fire damage ffs.
Oh, miniaturized nukes actually exist. There were man-portable nukes used in mortars with a yield of 0,5 kiloton or smth.
@Starkku:
Quote:
By whom? Westwood Studios? Who says anyone has to follow their rules instead of coming up with their own stuff
The TI staff... They said that numerous times across the board.
@Mod: We indeed derailed this topic. Sorry, I started the fuss with the Cat MBT... this wasn't my intention though .
Split and move the stuff about railguns to the general TI subforum I guess QUICK_EDIT
The Railgun Tank (ingame) sucks in chaotic fights as well. Ever tried to take on an AI attack group with a relatively small group of them somewhere in between both bases? Damn, those air units harass them like hell and if you deploy a few of them, that will take too much time and you will get attacked by those land units straight away.
Afterwards, do the same, but use X67 Mammoths instead, they get rid of both threats easily. Versatility ftw.
The Cat MBT would instead ignore the air units and just blast all land-based threats apart and then run back to base to repair.
And this will get even worse for the Railgun Tank when crates come into play (deploying removes their effects).
So even aside from realism, I have some gameplay issues with the Railgun Tank...
I tested both Railgun Tank and X67 a lot today, and the Railgun Tank is inferior to the latter in all occassions with only one exception: defending against a huge air attack - even then, if the X67 obtained a firepower upgrade crate... no comments. QUICK_EDIT
Yes, and I know that it works correctly in Tiberian Sun with both Tick tanks and artillery. Never really tried the Sensor array though, and if I did, that is looong ago
The bug appeared in Firestorm, probably... and appears in TI as well... I tried
It applies only to crate bonuses though; I've never seen the bug appearing with veterancy.
EDIT: It seems the bug appears randomly though and it seems also one upgrade can be kept while another can be removed when deploying. I'll try more stuff with deploying/undeploying tomorrow. QUICK_EDIT
You're arguing for realism. Obviously, silliness can be kept to a minimum by not giving ridiculously cumbersome weapons like railguns and lasers to very many vehicles or infantry, but every here and there it's OK to stretch the bounds of realism in the pursuit of an interesting unit.
Honestly. Nod has a stealth tank which has an engine which can not only nullify gravity but is also able to produce an opposing gravity field for propulsion. This is not only completely unknown to science, but actually defies physics completely. Gravity which can be tilted? Gravity from an object so small?
Arguing about railguns kinda fades in comparison. At least railguns have been developed, and the united states have a new laser weapon on order. QUICK_EDIT
Of all things, the size of real life rail guns make TI ones look impossible?
Let's consider that the TS rail gun effect doesn't look remotely like a real rail gun's firing. Also let's look at the other ridiculous technologies in TS and TI that make no sense: Stealth Tech, TS-Style Lasers, Sonic Weapons, EMP Weaponry (As it is in TI), Ion Cannon, Antigravity, Hover Tech, Pulse Cannons (Eclipse Heavy Tank), Dropships, Jumpjet Infantry, and Tiberium itself.
So can we just say that realism when in comes to technology can be thrown out the window. QUICK_EDIT
Waa Waa Waa Railgun Tank this and that, first its too high tech for GDI and when that doesn't catch fire i proceed to say in a way that the unit sucks in gameplay just so you'll change the unit for me k thx!
Comparison to X67 is also unfair IMO, technically Railgun tank is more like support unit given its hindrances (maybe ever considered its unwieldy design so you'd mix?) not do it all MBT all alone aka X67 mammoth with heaviest armor... Imagines if Railgun Tank was Prism Tank godly, then we'd have whine zomg X67 is frickin' useless just like apocalypse as it gets zapped to hell before in range
Mix 'n' match and you might see success, or else you will just have to spam those X67 when find TD warfact QUICK_EDIT
Luckily the Prism Tanks are nerfed to hell in any serious mod .
@ApolloTD: I can do a lot myself.
@Darkstorm: I've said something somewhere in this thread:
Quote:
Strangely, the Stealth Gen doesn't bother me as much as the railgun tank, while this is physically impossible (stealth requires structural changes in the things you want to be cloaked) unlike a railgun tank.
Yes, it is possible in the near future to build a stealth tank. A small downside is that it is also invisible to your own soldiers and the invisibility isn't perfect due to background 'bugs'. If we already had a decade of constant warfare, I'd bet those were operational and running
And as I've said: I don't know why the railgun bothers me more than everything else you listed. I really want to know the answer to the question THAT brings up, though... but well... that question isn't TI related at all
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I still don't get how my freakin' brain works at times, lol
Maybe it is more that I just dislike the unit more than everything else?
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*...*
... Oh... goddamnit. FFS.
WHY ... oh well... sorry guys QUICK_EDIT
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Railgun vs. Cat
But still no, this won't replace anything. Especially since such a conventional tank wouldn't fit a railgun tank.
. Railguns require much more sophisticated technology to work properly than lasers do, actually.
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