that's one of the reasons why 800x600 was chosen for the max res. wich i still play on because any higher resolution ruins the game for me and i didn't installed settlers 2.
I'd also root more for a working Fog of war function from wich the game mechanics benefit a lot too.
plus in SC 2 the minimap is equally useful compared to SC1.
i don't know, it sounds contraproductive to ignore the intendet mechanics how the game should work like fog of war and minimap improvement but instead higher resolutions, bigger maps and always having permanent removed fog. this sounds more like working towards the supreme commander model. wich isn't bad butit destroys the relevance of so much factors ingame.
That's just your opinion. I'm pretty sure that most players would hate to be stuck to a resolution of 800x600; I personally wouldn't be able to stand playing TS with any res that has a width that's less than 1280px. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
back then when i had only a 17" monitor i liked to play TS in 800x600 too, but nowadays with a 30" it's unbearable to play in low res and stretch it to the whole screen. Shortly after the monitor change, I even tried to find a tool which allowed me to play TS only in a small area of the big screen, so i can keep the small res. But after a while i got used to ignore the minimap. Last edited by Lin Kuei Ominae on Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:05 pm; edited 2 times in total QUICK_EDIT
that's one of the reasons why 800x600 was chosen for the max res. wich i still play on because any higher resolution ruins the game for me and i didn't installed settlers 2.
I'd also root more for a working Fog of war function from wich the game mechanics benefit a lot too.
plus in SC 2 the minimap is equally useful compared to SC1.
i don't know, it sounds contraproductive to ignore the intendet mechanics how the game should work like fog of war and minimap improvement but instead higher resolutions, bigger maps and always having permanent removed fog. this sounds more like working towards the supreme commander model. wich isn't bad butit destroys the relevance of so much factors ingame.
That's just your opinion. I'm pretty sure that most players would hate to be stuck to a resolution of 800x600; I personally wouldn't be able to stand playing TS with any res that has a width that's less than 1280px.
Starcraft 1 doesn't allow to play above 320x??? under any circumstances other than a failed mod wich has a lot of bugs, so everyone plays it at the standart resolution and they stand it, because the mechanics are good and the game makes fun.
UFO:Enemy Unknown, people play an age old game on a horrific resolution, because the mechanics and the gameplay is fun.
X-More titles work that way bittah, so the outnumber of opinion thing isn't a valid point.
Sure it's prefference if you can do it, have a better resolution, personally i have nothing against it, what i have something against is rendering parts of game mechanic useless for eye candy. surely you'd understand that. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
Blubb, like LKO mentioned, the monitor size is a big part of the issue. Those games you mentioned are even older than TS, but I'm pretty sure that not many people would like stretching even those games over a whole 27" screen while using a resolution of 320x240 or 320x200.
Back when I still played TS with a res of 800x600 I also still used a 17". Even though I found out how to use greater resolutions in the game even then already, I stuck to 800x600 because 1024x768 just looked too tiny to me... until I switched to a 19" monitor.
So yeah, even though I'd like to have those game mechanics which were "broken" by high game resolutions working properly, if I'd have to make a choice between them, I'd much rather have the high resolutions than these game mechanics. Small resolutions just are too much of a pain on large monitors unless you play in windowed mode, which something I actually also prefer not to do. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Blubb, like LKO mentioned, the monitor size is a big part of the issue. Those games you mentioned are even older than TS, but I'm pretty sure that not many people would like stretching even those games over a whole 27" screen while using a resolution of 320x240 or 320x200.
Back when I still played TS with a res of 800x600 I also still used a 17". Even though I found out how to use greater resolutions in the game even then already, I stuck to 800x600 because 1024x768 just looked too tiny to me... until I switched to a 19" monitor.
So yeah, even though I'd like to have those game mechanics which were "broken" by high game resolutions working properly, if I'd have to make a choice between them, I'd much rather have the high resolutions than these game mechanics. Small resolutions just are too much of a pain on large monitors unless you play in windowed mode, which something I actually also prefer not to do.
if they are streched in awkward ways i can understand your point, but even then with bigger monitors and a higher resolution, that would mean most stuff on the screen is still reasonable big and good to control, that means the minimap has it's use, and it's just not utilized. why is that? i could only blame the missing objects wich are non visible in vanilla versions atleast at the radar like aircrafts, nearly every civ building and certain other unit types, or just you can't make out elevations of the terrain on the MM, if it was optimized, would people utilize it more then?
i certainly use it often, but that is due to me playing this on a notebook with a smaller screen on 800x600 and it's comfortable. i re-activated and made the units all in all visible on the radar and the buildings, and it works well for me. just not the elevations and i doubt that would ever change. but compßletely abandoning a feature for insanely large maps is beyond me. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
i re-activated and made the units all in all visible on the radar and the buildings, and it works well for me. just not the elevations and i doubt that would ever change. but compßletely abandoning a feature for insanely large maps is beyond me.
Can you post an example pic of the adjusted minimap? I run TS at 1024x768 since everything seems bit too small above that. I use the minimap to quickly navigate the map, but other than that can't say I look at it much. Maybe if it showed enemy units more clearly and with some other color adjustments it could become much clearer. I recall the minimap being very useful in Red Alert 1, you could spot enemy units on it easily. Someone please do a tutorial on this, I doubt I could get it to look right. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject:
I'm with the 800x600ers on this one, I still play it on that reso on a 21,6" width monitor.
tho yeah, playing above 800x600 reduces all stuff to be too damned small. A zoom function like the one from TTD would be useful, but then still, sidebar sizes can also freak me out. And I use the minimap. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
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Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
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WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
i re-activated and made the units all in all visible on the radar and the buildings, and it works well for me. just not the elevations and i doubt that would ever change. but compßletely abandoning a feature for insanely large maps is beyond me.
Can you post an example pic of the adjusted minimap? I run TS at 1024x768 since everything seems bit too small above that. I use the minimap to quickly navigate the map, but other than that can't say I look at it much. Maybe if it showed enemy units more clearly and with some other color adjustments it could become much clearer. I recall the minimap being very useful in Red Alert 1, you could spot enemy units on it easily. Someone please do a tutorial on this, I doubt I could get it to look right.
i'd have to transfer it over to my pc, later on when i decide to upload another version of the mod you can look for yourself if the chore is worth it, as for radar colors, it's easy and it's just standart tags you'd find easily in the rules you can assign. it's just a chore going through the units one by one, but it's worth it. and yeah the TS MM is mainly used for fast navigation by most i can assume, but the zoom MM from red alert would be an improvement over the static one. i wish i could thicken the dots on the radar so it's easier to make out, but i'm afrain that seems to be bound to cell sizes. as buildings are shown in the designated cell size on the mm and units only always have 1 cell sized dots. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
What would be ideal is if the sidebar's width (and thus also the minimap) would always be a certain percentage of the width of the resolution, instead of always being a specific amount of pixels. In other words, the sidebar should become more pixels wide on higher resolutions, just like in C&C3... _________________ QUICK_EDIT
255x255? Haha wasn't MadHQ's RA2 map Farmland 399x100? How do you even make it bigger than 200x200 anyway?
I play TS and YR at 1280x800 (laptop max size)...but then I go back to the tiniest 640x480(something like that) just to relive nostalgia when I first played C&C games. _________________ Tiberium Uprising (a few missions for TS): http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31029 QUICK_EDIT
On the left is the RA1 minimap, on right the TS. In the RA1 minimap you can quickly see the enemy stuff and ore, and make out the basic shape of the terrain. Could TS minimap be made to look something like this? It shows too detailed information about the terrain, it should be solid colors with cliffs and water clearly visible. I know the RA1 maps are alot simpler and thus the minimap is simpler, but would it be possible to hide all the extra details in the TS minimap? The tiberium colors could also be adjusted to be something more like what they are in the RA1 minimap, so the only bright colors on the minimap are your enemies.
I recall something in the tmp files that you can change the radar colors and what not. But I also remember you have to hack new tiles to change colors in the tmp file itself, as the tmp editor can't do it right or something. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on the subject can contribute to that point. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
We were planning on doing this for TI a while ago, but it requires a LOT more work than what the result is actually worth, in my opinion, mostly because TI has well over 2,000 TMP files. QUICK_EDIT
Sounds like something you turn on a good movie and drone through it. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
I personally would benefit greatly from a in editor lighting view, restarting the game over and over gets tedius. I would also like to see a greater use of alpha lights aswell, having yard lights on the conyard would be awesome. _________________ MODDB Profile: http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-second-tiberium-war
Maybe we could start some sort of community project to "fix" the TS minimap for the default TS terrain? Group objects together into categories (passable ground, cliff, water, green tiberium, blue tiberium, veins, trees?) and figure out color codes for them that create a very clean and simple looking minimap. The RA1 minimap would be a good starting point. Are the tmp files the only things that need to be edited? What about trees and such? Should roads appear in the minimap? Bridges? Never looked into editing the terrain so I'm kind of noob on this. I can then take on the tedious work of editing every single tmp to make these changes. I kind of strangely enjoy doing boring and routine shit like that. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
There is plenty of stuff that needs to be "Fixed" in tiberian sun, graphically speaking. I would love for a community project to come about. Buddah knows I've tried spurring, as have a great number of others. _________________ You come for the modding but you stay for the Crap Forum. QUICK_EDIT
If you want faster results to test lighting you can make the map a mission map and play it, pause the game, tweak the lighting settings and restart scenario. Not exactly great but speeds up checking what light values you want massively. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
@SuperJoe: i've started an editor that does exactly what you want. A quick way to edit the radar colors.
However due to time restriction and a few problems with reading and showing the tmp files, i haven't finished it yet. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
@SuperJoe: i've started an editor that does exactly what you want. A quick way to edit the radar colors.
However due to time restriction and a few problems with reading and showing the tmp files, i haven't finished it yet.
A less cluttered with useless junk radar minimap would be nice...
this is my latest purtying of the vanilla game...still needs many tweaks and edits... think it's a little dark overall lighting and a few buildings need to be more 'pre-damaged' along with some trees switched out for less green like ones.
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_________________ Kalistia Crestland (2)
In Soviet Russia, grass grows on tiberium! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:25 am Post subject:
post-apocalyptic eye candy, the thing TS has that RA2 just can't compete with. That's one of those things that keeps me coming back to TS time and time again _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index QUICK_EDIT
ixith, this looks excellent but i imagine it's pathing and playing is horrible, it might look cool and all natural, but the way the tiberium is spread and how small the spots are, harvesting is a pain, for single player it's really really good, but multiplayer especially with other people maps like these are tedious to play on. let me explain:
it has no open areas (judging from the screenshot) to expand or to create battle tactical neccisities such as concaves around enemy forces.
the harvesting spots are small and sparse and have no clear "i abuse this area to harvest resources" feel to it.
the lat work might look good if it's overall placed and a lot of ramps give a natural expression of the landscape, BUT this is what makes the game tedious, it slows down forces, continually slowering the gameplay to a great extend, units drive slower on certain lat types so your army would be like "stop, go, stop, go, stop", really awkward, lat should be placed in areas where units might be in a good, or a bad position for their forces, that is to keep the battlefield alive and if neccessary re-route forces to a clearer path.
the lightning is great and all, i love it, but if every map has extensive lightning like this...meh that one is just personal.
overall it's a lovely map, but it's fitting best in the single player section. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
pathfinding shouldn't be such an issue anymore, once someone fixed the TS cliffs, so the impassable flat bottom and top cells don't allow tiberium to be spawned on them.
In most cases the pathfinding stops working, because a passable tiberium overlay spread onto an impassable cliff tile.
The map is great imo. It still offers enough space to build a small refinery outpost. For example, i would destroy the church and try to place 1 or 2 refineries on top of that hill. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
ixith, this looks excellent but i imagine it's pathing and playing is horrible, it might look cool and all natural, but the way the tiberium is spread and how small the spots are, harvesting is a pain, for single player it's really really good, but multiplayer especially with other people maps like these are tedious to play on. let me explain:
it has no open areas (judging from the screenshot) to expand or to create battle tactical neccisities such as concaves around enemy forces.
the harvesting spots are small and sparse and have no clear "i abuse this area to harvest resources" feel to it.
the lat work might look good if it's overall placed and a lot of ramps give a natural expression of the landscape, BUT this is what makes the game tedious, it slows down forces, continually slowering the gameplay to a great extend, units drive slower on certain lat types so your army would be like "stop, go, stop, go, stop", really awkward, lat should be placed in areas where units might be in a good, or a bad position for their forces, that is to keep the battlefield alive and if neccessary re-route forces to a clearer path.
the lightning is great and all, i love it, but if every map has extensive lightning like this...meh that one is just personal.
first off don't judge a map from a single small picture.
now for your points
-pathfinding: the AI's actually navigate the middle area well. The only issue they will come across occasionally is the couple of floaters I put in the middle section giving them troubles.
-open areas: there's more open areas away from the middle as the middle is an island of sorts...one which you've seen before or can go see...with edits of course
-harvesting spots, like LKO said the hill there with the partially destroyed buildings is the key. setting up a position albeit small. But to go along with that I didn't want to create a massive harvesting building area to be made on the island as the blue tiberium value is going to be higher on this map and I wanted to make sure you had to send your harvester away from the safety of base defenses in order to get to it and not just set up an outpost right next to the blue field.
-LAT/Stop&Go: again this is mostly the middle area that's like that. The outside area not so much.
-lighting is 'extensive' simply because it is an expansion on a previous map which used a similar (though way too dark) lighting. so this map was going to keep that lighting but not as dark.
all in all this map is essentially ready...i'm just lazy. but when it's released you'll be able to take a better look at it of course (probably ought to release something soon though...been over a year as of mid October)
but anyways...need more pretties in here... _________________ Kalistia Crestland (2)
In Soviet Russia, grass grows on tiberium! QUICK_EDIT
pathfinding shouldn't be such an issue anymore, once someone fixed the TS cliffs, so the impassable flat bottom and top cells don't allow tiberium to be spawned on them.
Funny thing, if you place roads, grass, or anything other than clear on said tiles, they become passable. _________________
Um... Those are all terrain and you can't place terrain on terrain, considering one tile will always replace another; in other words, there won't be anything "under" it, considering there is no under. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Eh? The cells we're talking about do not belong to the cliff tiles, but for some reason, the engine renders them impassable. Unless you place something other than Clear there, that is. _________________
@Ixith
Ohh dear i spot veins that could lead to trouble if a refinery was on the hill poor harvester its gonna get chewed oh well i suppose its a risk we all have to take for some quick cash.
BTw i think a Mcv on top of the hill and one refinery could fit, but you could have jams if you have more than four harvesters working at once. IMO just move the mcv to another spot after the refinery is made.
watch out for engineer rush hahaha.
please more screen shots. _________________ Link to a document to see what mods i have and/or working on or working with
Click QUICK_EDIT
Harvester are immune to veins.
And the veins could have difficulty to grow on top of the hill, since veins aren't growing on a single cell basis, but always need something around 3 free cells while only on the center cell is the main veins patch. The adjacent cells have only some harmless "fade-out" veins. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Veins can not be destroyed. Only harvested/removed with the weed harvester, or by killing the veinhole monster, in which case the veins will dissolve (grow back) until they reach the previous VHM and then completely disappear. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Eh? The cells we're talking about do not belong to the cliff tiles, but for some reason, the engine renders them impassable. Unless you place something other than Clear there, that is.
Oh, I didn't know that (since I haven't mapped for anything other than DTA in over 5 years and DTA only has "flat" cliffs =P), but that's an interesting fact to know.
So tiberium is also still able to spread onto these impassable cells next to cliffs? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Eh? The cells we're talking about do not belong to the cliff tiles, but for some reason, the engine renders them impassable. Unless you place something other than Clear there, that is.
Oh, I didn't know that (since I haven't mapped for anything other than DTA in over 5 years and DTA only has "flat" cliffs =P), but that's an interesting fact to know.
So tiberium is also still able to spread onto these impassable cells next to cliffs?
I used to place LAT behind the cliffs for awhile as to 'make the minimap look more detailed' then I realized it was the cause to some of my problems such as the AI building buildings behind the cliff sections making horrendous graphical errors and in many cases hard to target the buildings. Although in some rare cases it would help with AI Pathfinding as it would increase the cell space they had to create the path...but it wasn't worth the other problems.
I never ran into the issue with the tiberium as I think my general placement of the tiberium was usually in front of cliffs instead of on the backsides like that.
Dubzac wrote:
Ohh dear i spot veins Sad that could lead to trouble if a refinery was on the hill poor harvester its gonna get chewed oh well i suppose its a risk we all have to take for some quick cash.
well the bits of pre-placed tiberium are there to block the veins from being able to progress up to that hill top and even if they did. it's not like it's exactly hard to destroy the VHM and make the veins go away or to bar your little outpost with a small section of walls to prevent the veins from doing damage. I'll have to check to see if they actually do get up there and can destroy stuff. Theoretically they will be able to as the dirt road is 2 cells wide and veins will grow with 2 cells and then reach the hill top and spread to 3 cells and start doing damage...but I don't think it's an issue you'll run into much. At least I haven't yet.
and i'll won't turn this into a photoshoot of my map. I'll do that another time in my own topic. I might eventually post a pic of a different map i'm working on if I ever get off my lazy ass and do a quick lighting scheme on it. _________________ Kalistia Crestland (2)
In Soviet Russia, grass grows on tiberium! QUICK_EDIT
Lin Kuei Ominae thanks for that. haven't played vanilla tiberian sun in ages.
@Ixith
yes~ *suspicious* killing the vein hole monster usually means getting your infantry killed or turned to visceroids or getting a artillery to blow up the damned thing.*shakes* Veins everywhere
its worse when your nod and you have to use the damned things.
Also invisible lights hamper building i think that is one reason the multi player maps didn't have that many.
Just wonder why didn't the WW-EA guys touch the maps when firestorm came out?. _________________ Link to a document to see what mods i have and/or working on or working with
Click QUICK_EDIT
Put the three files that are in that .rar into your SUN folder and your game should look like this. I'd credit all the artists but I'd have to do a load of research for that maybe they themselves will show up and tell you.
except Area51's titan, not really an improvement if you ask me.
Bad detailed and horrible colored units. You should have taken things from the spotlight forums, not 10 years old stuff from the normal SHP/VXL forums. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Well I am currently working on the next version of The Second Tiberium War with all new menu's and greatly improved lighting. The map I am currently working on will be competely overhauled with a new lighting technique i am testing. If all goes well I will be posting that soon and will put my original screenshots to shame. _________________ MODDB Profile: http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-second-tiberium-war
Joined: 17 Nov 2004 Location: The Most Holy Metal Reich
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:32 am Post subject:
blubb wrote:
that's one of the reasons why 800x600 was chosen for the max res. wich i still play on because any higher resolution ruins the game for me and i didn't installed settlers 2.
I'd also root more for a working Fog of war function from wich the game mechanics benefit a lot too.
plus in SC 2 the minimap is equally useful compared to SC1.
i don't know, it sounds contraproductive to ignore the intendet mechanics how the game should work like fog of war and minimap improvement but instead higher resolutions, bigger maps and always having permanent removed fog. this sounds more like working towards the supreme commander model. wich isn't bad butit destroys the relevance of so much factors ingame.
Single player skirmish doesn't benefit from fog of war as the AI ignores it. Even friendly units ignore fog of war when on guard. _________________ Eradicate. QUICK_EDIT
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