Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:22 am Post subject:
Just a thought and a question
Is it possible too create a subfaction via a special structure that enables several unique sets of units and structure depending on what upgrade for that structure you choose?
Just something i remember reading about before that a modder did.Thought it would help create more variety in the over all gameplay and storyline most of all. Like with the New brotherhood focuses more on organic and high technology weaponry, and the Old brotherhood focuses on more cybernetic and Drone & walker technology(I mean units like the venom 6 - 8 legs not 2 - 4). This is just an idea i thought might help make the mod better but the work load seems heavy though.But before that is it even possible? QUICK_EDIT
Using an upgrade as a prerequisite only works when all of the technology it gives access to becomes accessible immediately after the upgrade has been built.
So if for example a tech center has this upgrade and a radar as its prerequisite, the tech center won't be buildable if you build the upgrade first and the radar after that; it will become buildable if you build the radar first and the upgrade after that, but once you lose re-deploy your MCV (or just lose your Construction Yard and rebuild it), you'll have the same issue as before and the game will basically forget that the upgrade exists as a prerequisite (regardless on which building this upgrade was placed).
You'll have the same issue when using an upgrade as a prerequisite for units; if you build the upgrade before building the factory, the units that use this upgrade as their prerequisite won't be available.
This basically means that the only way to make upgrades as prerequisites consistently viable is by requiring to place these upgrades directly on the factory which they'll be providing extra technology for. So an upgrade which provides extra structures would have to be placed on the Construction Yard (and the structures it gives access to should only have this upgrade as their prerequisite) and an upgrade which provides extra vehicles should have to be placed on the war factory (and also be the only prerequisite for the vehicles it gives access to, along with the war factory itself).
That said, I have never tested if the AI is able to function correctly when using upgrades as prerequisites, although there are work-arounds available if the AI is unable to use these upgrades as prerequisites. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
If not an upgrade about an entire seperate structure that allows for a seperate group of structure and units.
In a sense it's like an entire faction via a structure of a sort. That's sorta what I had in mind. QUICK_EDIT
Then how would you go about preventing the player from building all of of these structures and thus get access to all factions at the same time?
One idea you might have could be to make your initial Construction Yard self-destruct after building one of these structures (by making its production anim inflict enough damage to make the building destroy itself) and making these structures into Construction Yards themselves.
Theoretically this does work, but unfortunately any building with FactoryType=Building (every construction yard needs this to be able to construct other buildings) will cause the game to crash if the player cancels its production on the sidebar. Aside from this the AI also wouldn't be able to build a base anymore because it can only have one structure listed after BuildConst= and this structure needs to be the construction yard for it to be able to build anything.
Another idea could be to make the structure the MCV deploys into a war factory which allows you to build different MCVs (each giving access to a different faction) and also having this War Factory self-destruct when the MCV has been built, but again this will result in the AI being unable to build anything.
So if you really want to have these sub-factions without having to add actual new factions, you're actually still best off sticking to upgrades (although I still don't know whether or not the AI can properly use these) and placing these upgrades directly on the factory for which they're meant to provide new technology (just like I initially suggested). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Upgrades used as prerequisite for anything later than right at the start on the conyard are a bad idea.
see this topic
Graion Dilach wrote:
only the last built building is checked if it has the prerequisited upgrade.
Thus if you build the warfactory, then something else and then the upgrade for the warfactory, the upgrade can't be used as prerequisite anymore. Because the last building with that upgrade isn't the warfactory but something else. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
No, because you would still need 2 buildings (else it's nothing else than a tech center) and the construction of A can not stop you from building B as well. (There is unfortunately no logic in the TS engine to stop the construction of one building if another is present)
Only upgrades which occupy the slot would have allowed such blocking of the other build option. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Upgrades used as prerequisite for anything later than right at the start on the conyard are a bad idea.
see this topic
Graion Dilach wrote:
only the last built building is checked if it has the prerequisited upgrade.
Thus if you build the warfactory, then something else and then the upgrade for the warfactory, the upgrade can't be used as prerequisite anymore. Because the last building with that upgrade isn't the warfactory but something else.
That's why I already mentioned that the structures which have this upgrade as their prerequisite should only have this upgrade as their prerequisite and nothing else. This way you prevent the situation where you build the upgrade prerequisite before a structure's other prerequisite, which would result in not having this structure appear on the sidebar.
The same thing goes for other factories such as the War Factory, where units should only have the factory itself and the upgrade as their prerequisite.
Also, it shouldn't be necessary to place the upgrade on only the Construction Yard at the game; there's no reason (that I know of) why you couldn't make these upgrade prerequisite available after for example building a radar or a tech center so that the "subfaction technology" becomes available at a later point.
That said, I'd personally still make the Construction Yard's upgrades available right after deploying the MCV for practical reasons (and not because it's not possible to do it differently).
After placing a subfaction's upgrade prerequisite on the Construction Yard you could either give access to a side-specific war factory or you could not use the Construction yard's upgrade prerequisite for the war factory (and other factories) to begin with, but instead make the Construction Yard's upgrade prerequisite give access to upgrades which have to be placed on the war factory and other factories in order to get access to that subfaction's unique units and thus still having access to the shared units when you don't place the upgrade. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also, it shouldn't be necessary to place the upgrade on only the Construction Yard at the game; there's no reason (that I know of) why you couldn't make these upgrade prerequisite available after for example building a radar or a tech center so that the "subfaction technology" becomes available at a later point.
That doesn't work.
If you build anything in between the upgrade and the building on which you place the upgrade, the upgrade isn't working anymore as prerequisite.
You have to build the upgrade and nothing else right after you have build the building on which you place the upgrade.
Thus it only works when using the conyard as there are no other build options than the upgrade available yet.
As GD put that down so nicely short, only the last build building is checked.
If you build a building A, then building XYZ and then the upgrade on building A, the upgrade wont work anymore. Because the game checks if Building XYZ (which is the last one being build) has the upgrade.
And later in a game you definitely have more buildings available than only the upgrade, so the chance is high the player isn't building the upgrade right after that but something else. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
It's been a while since I tested this, but I thought the issue was only that if BuildingC has Prerequisite=UpgradeA,BuildingB and you build UpgradeA (on BuildingA) and build BuildingB after that, the game "forgets" that UpgradeA exists as a prerequisite and thus BuildingC won't become available on the sidebar (and this wouldn't have happened if you build UpgradeA after BuildingB, even if you'd first build BuildingA, then BuildingB and finally UpgradeA).
I could be wrong about that italic part since it's been a while since I tested this and didn't make any notes, but if that really doesn't work, you'd indeed need to give access to all of the new subfaction-spefic tech right after building the upgrade.
To then still be able to have shared tech between sub-factions you could include the upgrade prerequisite after the PrerequisitePower= prerequisite category so that shared technology can simply get Prerequisite=POWER,xxx (although you'd probably also have to recycle PrerequisiteRadar= and PrerequisiteTech= to be able to have technology that's shared between subfactions, but not between GDI and Nod as well). _________________ QUICK_EDIT
No, because you would still need 2 buildings (else it's nothing else than a tech center) and the construction of A can not stop you from building B as well. (There is unfortunately no logic in the TS engine to stop the construction of one building if another is present)
Only upgrades which occupy the slot would have allowed such blocking of the other build option.
Then would it be possible after just deploying the con yard you get not the regular power plant refinery and barracks,but a few upgrades that you can place on the con yard?In which you can only choose one upgrade,The moment you pick and build one of the upgrades you the others become unavailable.
Would it be possible using what I said above too create several seperate faction tech trees within a faction? QUICK_EDIT
In a way, yes. But the other upgrades are only made "unavailable" because the upgrade slot on the Construction Yard is already occupied and you can't place another one on it. If you build another another Construction Yard you'd be able to build one of the other upgrades as well.
It's not possible to make the upgrades you didn't build disappear from the sidebar when you build another upgrade. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
This method allows you to have fully working sub-factions in TS (even works with the AI). You have to do the faction selection at the start of the match though. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
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Just a thought and a question
