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A New Future for Project Perfect Mod
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject:  A New Future for Project Perfect Mod
Subject description: I see a tiberium vision using my time machine. But I wanna see more things as well.
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Quote:
Generals,

Thank you for your participation over the last years in the Project Perfect Mod community. It’s been much appreciated, and you’ve been instrumental in helping define what a new Project Perfect Mod experience should and shouldn’t be.

Part of being in a website team is the understanding that not all of your choices are going to work out. In this case, we shifted the site away from Final Dawn campaign mode and built an community-based, mod hosting experience. Your feedback from the Project Perfect Mod community is clear: We are not expanding our community to the games that you want to modify. That is why, after much difficult deliberation, we have decided to cease to be labeled a Tiberian Sun or a Red Alert 2 community only. Although we deeply respect the great work done by our talented community, ultimately it’s about getting you more games than you expect and deserve.

Over the next 10 days we will be collecting any feedback on how can we grow into other games or game engines with your support. If you have a question about your that, please contact us with a reply to this topic in our forums.

We believe that Project Perfect Mod is a powerful mod community with huge potential and a great history, and we are determined to get the best modding coverage made as soon as possible. To that end, we have already begun looking at a number of alternatives to get the site back on track. We look forward to sharing more news about this site as it develops. Thank you again for your participation and support.



Hello everyone. We really don't want to be dependent on the game modifications from Command & Conquer games anymore. You've seen how unstable corporations like EA can be. While our coverage on games like Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 are very strong. We've been trying to expand for other games for a very long time already.

Due to lack of recognition of PPM as a modding community for games other than Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2, our Generals forums, Tiberium Wars, Red Alert 3, Starcraft II and Fallout 3 editing forums are not being properly used.

We've created the Other Games Modding forum where you can talk about any other game you wanna mod... or even game engine. But people use it to recommend other places instead of growing a community of their favourite game here. If you want us to create modding forums for your favourite games, please say so. Do you want modding forums for OpenRA? If you guys want it, we'll have it done here.

We have created a Media creation tutorial forum where you can place tutorials to create assets for any game, but people only post TS/RA2 tutorials there recently.

We have a Public Mod Announcements which clearly states "Post announcements, news, requests and info of your public mods (for any game) here." By any game, we mean that you can announce your mod for Unreal that will be welcomed as well.

Our Game Chat section is there for people to talk about any game. We've even created subforums for Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo, Dune, Warhammer 4ok franchise, Halo, Minecraft... what else do you need?

We have hosted mods for Supreme Commander... and people still think this place only host Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 mods only here. People don't seem to believe how happy we get when a modification for Generals, C&C3, Starcraft II or any other game joins this place.


Please, help us to expand. I cannot mod all these games on my own. I've barely have time to research for my DsC in computer science. But if we generate content about other games here, more people will join and contribute.

Don't understand it in a wrong way. Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2 are more than welcomed here, but we are not restricted to these games at all.

Please, help us to expand to other games and, as soon as our content to these games grow, they'll get more sections in the site and more news about them here as well.

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Zengar_Zombolt
Plasma Trooper


Joined: 30 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm Trying, I'm Trying. It's hard being the only person on this site modding RA3. I can only move so fast being inbetween RL work, and getting my new computer set up for ra3 modding and guah!

Let alone the OpenRA and Vector Thrust Modding, I just finished a Stage in VT! I still want to eventually make games myself!

I'm Sorry I can't do more, but Going solo on a game with disjointed mod base. Guah I am in despair!

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't get it.  If I wanted to mod other things I'd go somewhere else.  Fragmenting the site further with niches within the niche seems pointless considering we don't have the same userbase as ModDB, which imo is a better platform for publicising a mod rather than developing one.

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PillBox20
Commander


Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't know what to say. The games I like and will aways play are CnC games and Starcraft II. Starcraft II don't have mods, just custom maps.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I don't get it.  If I wanted to mod other things I'd go somewhere else.  Fragmenting the site further with niches within the niche seems pointless considering we don't have the same userbase as ModDB, which imo is a better platform for publicising a mod rather than developing one.


That kind of thought make us stuck where we are. Expanding the site and fragmenting it are different things. We are not trying to drive our TS/RA2 modders to other games. We are trying to make PPM more friendly to other modding public as well.

I really don't expect people to play and mod TS for the next 100 years, specially if we don't attract different public. Also, the name of this site is not Project Perfect Tiberian Sun Mod... or Project Perfect Red Alert 2 Mod.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now that you mentioned it, the name of the site could be very misleading to newcomers, as they might think the site is restricted to some particular project called Perfect Mod. Of course, you should be able to expect that people read the site description before turning away, but that might not always be the case.

I think the change is already happening, but you can't force it to go faster without merging with some other sites. We've had some discussion and modding going on in C&C3 and Generals sections (though the latter has since dried out), something we didn't have before.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so many ideas, so few time. Sad If days would be 36 hours long and each weekend having 4 days i would have created already a Dark Reign to C&C total conversion. Dark Reign is a great platform for modding too, yet it isn't known that well.

It would be also nice to see some more other games modding taking place on PPM, as this would increase the amount and diversity of public assets, which is good for all mods.

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Modders like their exclusive content, a lot of the more difficult to produce stuff stays protected.

Never heard of Dark Reign, but I'd happily chip in a few models.

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pd
Laser Commando


Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Location: Gone

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PPM will stay a C&C place for me, I doubt it's going to change that easily.

I have been modding other games, mostly UT2004, some Minecraft, but I would never had the idea of posting any of that here. Cause, this is a C&C place. Has been for over a decade.

And quite honestly, it doesn't look like you want to promote PPM for anything else, just look at the main page. The favicon and PPM logo contain GDI and Nod logos. The left sidebar is filled purely with C&C editing tool and mod links and references. In the Revora bar, PPM is found under "C&C -> Resources". Anybody who knows PPM sees it as a C&C place, anybody new to visit PPM will recognize it as a C&C place. If you want something else, I believe the presentation of PPM is the first thing to adjust.

The second thing is that you need some key project to get things started - either "acquire" one or start one (stop subtly blaming the community for not modding other games - do it yourself as well!). All the "big dogs" around here (those that are able to post News, etc.) are working on C&C projects, so the news are barely about anything else. Have a popular mod for another game hosted here and you might be able to bootstrap a modding community for that game.

Also, keep in mind that moddable games seem to become a rarity. That is because game devs suddenly decide to disallow custom game servers and practically lock away every possibility of modding - and in many cases even mapping. Those games that are moddable do not have too many noteworthy projects going thanks to today's realism-mania. Visuals, audio, animation and coding have become way too complex. One-man-projects are simply not possible. The only thing where I see a very bright future is Minecraft, once they get their API done. However, you'll have to admit that there are more than enough places for Minecraft modding, because it has been going on for years now.

What I'm trying to say is that your idea is gonna be a tough step. The only way I see it become reality is if you stop treating C&C as your favorite child and start a popular mod - or modding research (I have never made a C&C mod, I just created tools for modding it - and just look how alive RenegadeProjects suddenly became) - for a different game yourself.

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blubb
General


Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PillBox20 wrote:
Don't know what to say. The games I like and will aways play are CnC games and Starcraft II. Starcraft II don't have mods, just custom maps.



starcraft don't have mods? serious? if you buy starcraft you buy 99999 games made by fans.

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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One of the most memorable Starcraft Mods was a Gundam Partial Conversion too IIRC (Turning the Terran & Protoss into gundam Sides and the Zerg gets revamped attacks on some units like the lurker)

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Only Diablo has mods in the traditional way. Modmaps, like what War3 and SC2 has are not even close to mods because you can't mix their rules into your own maps... so what.

Tho most of these games I don't give a damn about.

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blubb
General


Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread




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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's dead meat. No release, no post, no signs of life.

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"If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
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=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It at the very least proves that SCII is modable.

I didn't really expect that mod to be dead though, since although I knew about it, I've never really followed its progress.
The way everything looks like toys in this mod made it visually far less appealing than the original to me (and for a 3D total conversion I think I'm allowed to at least expect the opposite before considering it to be a visually good mod).

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OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banshee I highly doubt this is a good move. You are a site for C&C modding. If I want to look for modding communities for lets say Fallout then there already is a highly established modding community elsewhere for that franchise with the knowledge the assets and the people and so on. No matter what you do as long as you don't throw millions of $ into it you will never reach them and therefor never become the main hub for modding those games. C&C is huge and it desperately needs a single hub for C&C modding, you can see it with how the other communities pretty much happen to be dead apart from a few PPM vets coming by or some noobs putting up questions.

Orac has said it very well and yes I do believe that people will mod TS and other C&C for many years to come because of a simple reason. They are accessible, possibly the most accessible game to mod with the capability to achieve awesome results. We might see a transfer to OpenRA but C&C and with it TS modding will continue.

Even a noob like me was able to come up with not too shabby stuff be it converting be it LDD building be it explosions made in some generator be it ini coding be it what not. That is one of the main strengths of the C&C modding community. People mod it because they can.

If you try to become interesting for other modding communities then you harm them. You have to be aware of that. Segregating the communities does not help anyone at all. You as are many more are gifted with not being dependent on money on fiscal year on profit and what not, you are clean of all that commercial BS that corrupts peoples lives so do yourself a favor and don't do actions that don't fit you. You do not have to compete with other modding communities, you are PPM you are the no1 result on google for TS modding.

Now I for one sure would love to see some C&C mods with the Supreme Commander game or Empire at War or Starcraft2. I dunno if the Starcraft2 arcade counts but they got tower defense and mobas and all sorts of game mods made and they are featured and an official feature.

You got good intentions but think over it, or not. Do what you want.

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Exley
Commander


Joined: 09 May 2011
Location: Approaching the Great Pyramid

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banshee wrote:
Quote:
I don't get it.  If I wanted to mod other things I'd go somewhere else.  Fragmenting the site further with niches within the niche seems pointless considering we don't have the same userbase as ModDB, which imo is a better platform for publicising a mod rather than developing one.


That kind of thought make us stuck where we are. Expanding the site and fragmenting it are different things. We are not trying to drive our TS/RA2 modders to other games. We are trying to make PPM more friendly to other modding public as well.

I really don't expect people to play and mod TS for the next 100 years, specially if we don't attract different public. Also, the name of this site is not Project Perfect Tiberian Sun Mod... or Project Perfect Red Alert 2 Mod.


to be honest, you shoot too far
and for what ?
isn't what you have now enough ?

its not people's fault if for example CnC3 or RA3 aren't modded much
its developers fault and shit support for tools that make ease to mod

but scratch that, what do you get out of "possible future big mod community" ?

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd love to see PPM expand and flourish a little more, but (and I mean this in the nicest way Banshee), do you really have the time to revitalize PPM? It's been needing a refreshed and consistent look for a long time now and if you want to get a few more games involved then it will definitely require this.

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Team Black
Defense Minister


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It does make sense the need to expand and bring in fresh meat, otherwise our community will get isolated, and possibly dwindle away like tiberiumweb (granted, tibeweb had other problems).

Otherwise, one thing I've thought about is the PPM community gets so accustomed to each other over the years, that we keep modding C&C because of each other; naturally the longer we do this, the better friendships we have.
We're like a like a bunch of friendly old geezers in a Model T Ford club. Even though there are Corvettes and Vipers, we work on Model Ts because that's what we like.

So, I think the current approach is a workable one; C&C is primary, but accepting of all mods. The only thing is, I think the community will need a poke now and again to remind/encourage about other game modding.
-In addition to that, maybe even seeking out other sites like ours that like to mod old games, like Half Life 1/Counterstrike, Starcraft 1, or even Call of Duty World at War custom zombie maps etc. since they'd probably be faced with a similar situation as us

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kenosis
Commander


Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What we have: a group of TS engine modders
What we want: ppm becomes the community for a group of other games
What environment has: well-developed communities of modding other games

Since we are not going to mod other games ourselves.......or at least not at the level of THEIR modders.  And THEIR modders would visit THEIR community.
How to achieve what we want? Actually nobody denies other game mods but should not expect too many other game mods  to appear in a traditionally considered CNC community.

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Let me put it this way: I run one of the few, if not the only active Generals ZH mod of this place. While I admit it's not high-quality work that's produced, the fact that almost no one actually bothers to even comment on news I post for my mod makes me really doubt how much longer the mod will stay here at PPM. Hell, it's even a TC instead of another Generals expansion like the millions that already exist. I try my best to come up with an unique backstory and interesting gameplay, but most of the times it feels like I'm just doing this for myself (which is fun for a while, but gets boring after several years).
It becomes a circle: I want to produce better and more interesting stuff, but I need some feedback/help some times for that. No one bothers to do so, so I lack the motivation to work on the mod. I even made a thread where I request the assistance of willing Beta Testers. Result: not one ztyping response.

Of course, I don't want everyone to have pity on the mod (and me), but a bit of feedback and help when I request it (and that isn't that often) would be appreciated. Hell, even just showing some interest would make me a bit more happy and motivated.

But wth, I can just as well say this against a wall, as this community isn't interested in anything non-Westwood anyway. Unless its a mod that turns the game into a WW C&C game.

Anyways, to let go of my mod and give a more direct answer to you Banshee: if the community doesn't bother about other games, why provide space for those games? You can of course see it the positive way that if we open space for other games there will be new members, but as with most games those other games already have their own communities. If they have what they want there, why would they bother coming here? I don't see a Supreme Commander forum opening a subforum for C&C or Minecraft (to mention 2 random examples).

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4StarGeneral
General


Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Limbo

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've modded many games in my time, and these seem to be the only ones that I want to actually come back to again and again.

I don't know if modding C&C will die, but I'll be working on it to the end of the PC days #Tongue


I think OpenRA has a future for itself.

The quick answer is: We all love the classic C&C and will never give it up. Most of us only have the knowledge/want the knowledge to mod these games. And only these games. The reason there is no activity on other forums is that none of us barely even took the leap past RA2YR as Dutchy pointed out.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, guys. So far, the response seems to be interesting although the kind of mentality seem in most of the responses won't help this place to grow at all.


Let me put my objective in a very simple way: we need fresh blood.

A community that doesn't have fresh blood will eventually fade away. Human beings eventually grow tired and bored of doing the same things for a long time. So, the community that is here today won't be here in a year. Some of you may stay here for a longer time, but many will move into other things. And, with the death of the C&C franchise, old Pre-SAGE and SAGE games won't call the same attention that it did before. Command & Conquer will be forgotten and, with that, less people will figure out that the games we cover here are interesting to create game modifications.

We don't have active C&C communities linking us anymore. Only active modifications. PPM will be forgotten and rely simply on Google and few other exceptions to get visitors.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't want this place to fade away with the remaining C&C community. I want more for PPM and I'm willing to spend more time to reform the site to receive content for other games. The point is... I need this content. I can't do everything on my own. I'm aware that the site looks very C&Cish at the moment and I'm willing to change that. And many things are need for it, including a change of mentality of this community.

If you want public and feedback for the existing mods here, we need to attract people that are not necessarily Command & Conquer fans, in order to call their attention to show that there are interesting games to mod here, including C&C ones.

Otherwise, we'll end up with a cycle of modders of certain games getting dismotivated that no one else provides feedback or talk about it here, while no one talks about it here because there is no content, so they think that no one is interested to modify it here.

Are you guys able to understand my idea?

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As said Banshee, how do you want us to get new people. All the other games have their own communities like C&C has PPM. What would make PPM so special that we would get people from other games here?

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Many people who visit PPM also modifies other games. Discuss them here, show mods for other games here. If you want, we can host them and provides more propaganda and events for it in our main site to try to promote it here. Also, any help to provide tutorials to mod other games and other content that could be transformed into site content (we can convert any topic into site content already)  is very welcomed.

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OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banshee wrote:
Many people who visit PPM also modifies other games. Discuss them here, show mods for other games here. If you want, we can host them and provides more propaganda and events for it in our main site to try to promote it here. Also, any help to provide tutorials to mod other games and other content that could be transformed into site content (we can convert any topic into site content already)  is very welcomed.


Look. This is bullshit. If someone has valuable info then he should provide it to where it is needed. People who need it visit the established forums for this certain game. Since the experienced modders for other games don't come her but are at other locations you lack the key ressource for your plans already. The brains.

Tiberium web dying and people having to start copying stuff over should of have shown you that.

But as said the choice is up to you and I respect that.
Note to self: Tell banshee "I told you so" in the foreseeable future.

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Dutchygamer
President


Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As much as I hate to admit it, OrangeNero is somewhat right. You sound really desperate to get new members Banshee Confused

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Martin Killer
Missile Trooper


Joined: 27 Nov 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Banshee wrote:
Many people who visit PPM also modifies other games. Discuss them here, show mods for other games here. If you want, we can host them and provides more propaganda and events for it in our main site to try to promote it here. Also, any help to provide tutorials to mod other games and other content that could be transformed into site content (we can convert any topic into site content already)  is very welcomed.


AFAIK, if you want to find someone for example for a Fallout 3/New Vegas modding, it's impossible. There are much more better websites for such games which are known for few years - if any modder with these games want to gain attention of the public or other modders, registers on these websites and doesn't change it. Every major moddable game has it's own core website with a lot of possibilities that PPM made on 6-7 years old boards won't have.

Last edited by Martin Killer on Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Zengar_Zombolt
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Joined: 30 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a thought, Id PPm was just for TS/RA2/Gens modding, Then why was I, A RA3 modder allowed? Though I have gotten near no notice about, mostly my fault, but still.

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RP
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Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mapping God Heaven

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Before you start offering anything you should be able to guarantee the stability of this website/server, which it isn't.
Regardless of who's using the website/server, people want a stable site for their mod.

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Exley
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Joined: 09 May 2011
Location: Approaching the Great Pyramid

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dutchygamer wrote:
I run one of the few, if not the only active Generals ZH mod of this place. ... ... the fact that almost no one actually bothers to even comment on news I post for my mod makes me really doubt how much longer the mod will stay here at PPM.  ... ... I even made a thread where I request the assistance of willing Beta Testers. Result: not one ztyping response.


personally I'd play Gen and/or ZH more if damn stupid engine didn't hog down
my PC with 20 built in units, its a trash can worth game

Banshee wrote:
So, the community that is here today won't be here in a year. Some of you may stay here for a longer time, but many will move into other things. And, with the death of the C&C franchise, old Pre-SAGE and SAGE games won't call the same attention that it did before. Command & Conquer will be forgotten


you could say this 5-7 years ago and voila its still here and kicking
maybe CnC3/RA3 and C&C4 arent that much supported
but at least TS/RA2 ones are dancing

and how can something WORTH fade away ?
true you maybe aren't popular game portal... or whatever but for C&C
community I think its quite alright, other sites died while yours (at least to me)
is central one for CnC modding, and I go way back from ~2002, I was here then, I am here now

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On Moddb mods get like thousands of views but only maybe a dozen comments. Matter of fact is the huge majority of the people don't comment. Sad but a fact, I say that as the leader of a dozen groups and I said the stuff before as someone with years of training as a sales manager. I think PPM has a much smaller audience so the comments you get I'd expect are very few maybe some mates of you bother to except for that...

I'd highly welcome more activity on PPM towards all the newer C&C games. Shouldn't PPM be for all C&C games to begin with? Wait it is isn't it?

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Dutchygamer
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Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Exley wrote:
Dutchygamer wrote:
I run one of the few, if not the only active Generals ZH mod of this place. ... ... the fact that almost no one actually bothers to even comment on news I post for my mod makes me really doubt how much longer the mod will stay here at PPM.  ... ... I even made a thread where I request the assistance of willing Beta Testers. Result: not one ztyping response.


personally I'd play Gen and/or ZH more if damn stupid engine didn't hog down
my PC with 20 built in units, its a trash can worth game

If I had the skills, time and interest I would go to the TibWars engine, if only for the much better pathfinding which is the main source of lag for Generals. But that is something for later. I'm barely able to model properly for Generals' LoD.

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PillBox20
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Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

First about Starcraft II and that map you call a "mod".
I have played the game, I have moded the game, I have made custom maps. Spend hours trying to understand how this works... how that makes this. I understand the word "mod" like this:

Set up of files and data wich is applied to the whole game, no matter what you are playing - missions or skirmish maps.

The thing you've seen in the clip above is a custom map, not a MOD. What you make in this map in the edittor is only applied to the map you work on it, not the whole game. And those "99999 games made by fans" are not mods, they are CUSTOM MAPS!

Anyway that does not help in this discussion. I remember a game I played. It is called Empire at War. I moded it, fixed some stuf and balancing the game. I can make a mod and post it here just for start, if you don't mind Banshee. Will be glad to help anyway I can.

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blubb
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Joined: 31 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

any "map" mod in starcraft 2 is far more sophisticated than any existing mod in the cnc community, sorry to break it to you but the SC editor is *THAT* powerful, specially with the Hots improvements of it.

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^Rampastein
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Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

blubb wrote:
any "map" mod in starcraft 2 is far more sophisticated than any existing mod in the cnc community

Now your SC2 fanaticism is just on stupid levels. Are you really saying that any SC2 map mod, even ones created by newbies, are more sophisticated than for example TI, DTA and MO? Now, SC2 map mods maybe have the potential to be more sophisticated than C&C mods do, but that doesn't mean that most SC2 map mods actually are more sophisticated than the more significant C&C mods.

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Zengar_Zombolt
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Joined: 30 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Is anyone here actually interested in modding Gens/TW/RA3? Just curious...

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Graion Dilach
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Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If there would be a lot of free assets I might. But I can't 3D, so it's a no-go.

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Banshee
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Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rampstein, blubb's SC2 fanatism is not in stupid levels. The SC2 map editor is indeed that powerful.

Quote:
Look. This is bullshit. If someone has valuable info then he should provide it to where it is needed. People who need it visit the established forums for this certain game. Since the experienced modders for other games don't come her but are at other locations you lack the key ressource for your plans already. The brains.


You'd be surprised how wrong PPM has already proven that you are.

PPM has started as a Tiberian Sun mod project back in october 2000 (although the topic that suggested it was created in september 30th, 2000). It was originally splitted into several independent forums covering each department of the mod (brainstorming, AI, coding, etc).  I was the leader of the AI one. I've even built a lame site in geocities for it. Eventually, in 2001 or 2002 (I don't remember anymore) one member has bought the domain team-ppm.com, some paid hosting and created a decent site for it. PPM also started a RA2 project by that time. However, due to the behavior of another member, I've left PPM and the group splited sometime later. This forum was created in august 2002 by the group who was against that member. The guy who had team-ppm.com decided to support the problematic member. I've rejoined PPM with the group who was against the problematic member (look at my join date here) and, for the first time, I was actually admin in a forum. That's where my admin experience begins.

By that time, PPM was restricted to a TS mod and some people started a Warcraft 3 one.  We had no RA2 content at all.


If people really restricts themselves to well established forums for the games that matter to them, why nowadays PPM has the most active RA2 modding community (and possibly C&C3) in the C&C community?

We have started from scratch for both of these games. RA2 started in 2003, once we hosted a mod called Red Generals, which was the first hosted mod here. They've started in a similar fashion than PPM, but using PPM forums. So, we felt we had the obilgation to host it and support it. That's how we started hosting mods here. There were many places that were much more well estabilished as RA2 modding communities than PPM: I can mention: Deezire (it was veeery popular), Sleipinir Stuff, CnC Guild, C-GEN and some others. Nowadays, PPM is the most popular RA2 editing community by far, specially after CnC Guild's/Revora forums were sabotaged by a stupid ex-staff there.

C&C3 editing forums may not be popular here, but it is even less popular outside PPM (including the official C&C forums). Our C&C3 support was started mostly by the quick release of OS BIG Editor. During its story, we had stronger competitors such as Derelict Studios, CnCMods.net and even the official C&C forums. What keeps C&C3 alive here are members like Ju-Jin, Bibber, Madin and few others, of course.

Do you think that any of them were attracted by TS or RA2 mods? I don't think so. But many people who were originally interested on modding C&C3, eventually tried to mod other older C&C games thanks to PPM.

And that's what we need: content. If we get content for these games, we will attract visitors who will add us more content and, eventually, can make us get as good as other well estabilished communities. It also helps our existing mods to expand and obtain interesting ideas that may differentiate them from mods that are hosted in other places.

It's a win win situation and not a b.s.

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The only way that PPM grows away from TS/RA2 is if existing forum regulars start a mod for something else.

And most of the forum regulars are either working on long-term TS/RA2 projects, or are here to watch the work on long-term TS/RA2 projects.

I'm here for my dose of TS/RA2, and a little bit of Generals/TW/RA3, with a splash of TD/RA on the side.  If PPM moves away from that then I'll go elsewhere, because different sites cater to different groups and that's ok.  We don't need to be the one stop shop for all things modding.  We can be a TS/RA2 modding community and still have fun doing that.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yea, and it can fade away doing that until no one else in the universe bothers about these two games. Hell no.

PPM won't move away from TS/RA2. It will keep supporting it and expand into other things, because this place needs new blood and I want it to expand into other things as well.


If we close this place to our group, it will die. This is pretty much what you are asking here, Orac. Our personal Model T Ford club. That's not the purpose of PPM, really. We have to show the wonders of our Model T Ford to the rest of the world.

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But it has to move away from TS/RA2 because nobody is going to leave an existing, thriving community built around their game to come here for it right off the bat.  We'd need content to entice them, which would require content creators from around here, who are engaged in doing their own things with TS/RA2.

But hey, if you can recruit some people to do something else then I'll take it back.  10 to 1 odds that we all keep doing what we like doing though.

Honestly, all good things come to an end.  I'd rather see PPM continue to support TS/RA2 well instead of trying to support a host of hip new things poorly.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
But it has to move away from TS/RA2 because nobody is going to leave an existing, thriving community built around their game to come here for it right off the bat.


Not really. We just need to educate visitors who are not currently working on TS/RA2 stuff to contribute with content to other games that they may be modding. I.e.: people like pd who is not modding RA2 at the moment, as he is modding other games instead, could contribute and make this place more pleasant for other games as well.

Quote:
I'd rather see PPM continue to support TS/RA2 well instead of trying to support a host of hip new things poorly.


We can't drop things that work well here. It would be a very stupid thing to do. But we can encourage people to increase support for other games that they may be interested at.

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Orac
President


Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sooo....  Source, UDK, or Cryengine?

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Whatever he could do is welcomed here.

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In my honest opinion, Project Perfect Mod is actually a very good name for a more general game modding related site but I think your plans go beyond what we users can do to help besides making sure we welcome other mods to the site which I am sure everybody here would do quite happily. PPM's aesthetic, general forum framework and userbase is very much tied up in CnC and primarily the easy to mod CnC's such as Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2. This current userbase can only take the site so far.

If your goal is to expand PPM beyond CnC then share the plans and tactics you have for achieving this, empty forums / subforums for other games on here aren't going to crop up with new content unless this current CnC community residing here make something themselves. I'm always happy to help you, though I guess my only real contribution is management help through moderation powers at the moment.

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PillBox20
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Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Morpher wrote:
PPM's aesthetic, general forum framework and userbase is very much tied up in CnC and primarily the easy to mod CnC's such as Tiberian Sun and Red Alert 2. This current userbase can only take the site so far.


I think if for just a period of time we jump from "easy to mod" to something deferent won't hurt. I mean if we don't grow up and try new things we are staying at the "good old" level. Some times we just have to do deferent things to go forward. We are sitting in this restrictions:

-"I have aways modded CnC games and am good with that and I enjoy it so I don't need anything alse."

-"Oh I am good with this, I don't think I need to do other things."

What you think (not sometimes) many times is your own restriction. We just need to jump and try something alse (maybe harder) to mod. There are benifits of doing more than one thing!

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam)
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Part of the tactics are shared every december 31st/january 1st. You can see the last one here:
http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33970

There are a couple of other plans that are newer.

First of all, I'm trying to do in order to organize the content of the forums.

One approach is the News Tracker. There was a lot of progress with that in this month. You can see it at http://www.ppmsite.com (at the top center... right below the logo). The news tracker obtains and spotlights important posts of the forums to its respective subject by generating lots of news feeds.

The second one is that I'm still planning a system that will help to organize posts using public and private hashtags (#).

The third thing is that I'm slowly improving the RSS importer of this forum. I'm still doing tests with that and fixes whenever I commit something in VXLSE III. So far, I think I'm close to have a pretty good behaviour in the forum everytime a committ is done. My next step is to import news from Revora and ModDB.

There is also a feature that allows me (admin only) to manually spotlight posts to the News Tracker system. This is done already and it is fully functional. I still have to spotlight all decent voxels, 3D models, SHPs and few other items. Once I do it, I'll work in a system that will organize these spotlighted posts of each type into something that lists them and allows to the user to view strategic data from it. I..e.: I want it to generate a list of all decent voxels and show the preview and download link to the user. It's something that Anderwin would dream with.

What else? There might be other plans that I might be forgetting now.

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Morpher
General


Joined: 28 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PillBox20 wrote:
I think if for just a period of time we jump from "easy to mod" to something deferent won't hurt. I mean if we don't grow up and try new things we are staying at the "good old" level. Some times we just have to do deferent things to go forward. We are sitting in this restrictions


I fully agree that remaining in the same place forever and staying comfortable is in no way a good thing (take this from a person who emigrated from one side of the planet to the other), but if I personally wanted to try modding something a bit more challenging I'd have to invest time I don't have or try to utilize skills I know I'm hopeless with (3d modelling for example). I was fortunate that I learnt TS modding at an age where my time was abundant, I think this is the case with the members of most pre-existing projects around here that are based around TS / RA2.

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