any "map" mod in starcraft 2 is far more sophisticated than any existing mod in the cnc community
Now your SC2 fanaticism is just on stupid levels. Are you really saying that any SC2 map mod, even ones created by newbies, are more sophisticated than for example TI, DTA and MO? Now, SC2 map mods maybe have the potential to be more sophisticated than C&C mods do, but that doesn't mean that most SC2 map mods actually are more sophisticated than the more significant C&C mods.
well, no i'm aware of the newbie maps and the crap that flies around, i might have been a bit exaggerating, but what i meant was to emphasize the power the editor holds. i shold have said "nothing in the cnc community with it's limited possibilities can rival what the SC 2 editor holds." or something like that, because it's true....i mean, you can really do anything with it, thats not really fanaticism. _________________ Hydraw Art on Facebook QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:30 am Post subject:
I guess anything like War3 World Editor could do... where you could transform the map into a small WoW BUT you couldn't even ADD (only replace) a damned sound.... _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
If people really restricts themselves to well established forums for the games that matter to them, why nowadays PPM has the most active RA2 modding community (and possibly C&C3) in the C&C community?
Maybe just maybe because RA2 = TS to some degree? You talk about games such as the newer Fallout and I am sorry to tell you that Fallout modding stuff belongs there http://newvegas.nexusmods.com//? and certainly not to PPM same goes for most if not all other games that aren't C&C. That said doesn't exclude C&C themed mods for non C&C games. You are very naive if you can't see the difference between TS modders starting to make some steps in RA2 then liking it then expanding it and some Admin out of nowhere wanting to acquire modding communities from other places.
As you say yourself PPM still lacks in content for many C&C games I recommend to you that you start there with your efforts before you even just think about non C&C games. BTW the asset section is still a mess and don't get me started on the spotlights.
You are also by far not the ultimate source for even TS or RA2 modding as I still have to go to other sites looking stuff up be it ModEnc or YRArg. This is the time to refine and polish up yourself but definitely not to reinvent.
Your lack of response to my point that this move would harm other modding communities and segregate them... I hope you don't ignore this just because you don't care otherwise you'd deserve no better than what happens to EA.
It would be infuriating for me having to look at 5+ sites to get info assets community and what not for modding 1 game. The last thing I wanna look at in a C&C community is Fallout or some other non C&C game. You are not MODDB don't think you can become it. You neither seem to be a place where OpenRA is active. Tell me Banshee you failed to become the hub where OpenRA resides yet you think you can bring other communities here? You better start focussing on OpenRA because I can guarantee you if it is successful unlike Generals 2 it might become one of the biggest things we've seen. TS and RA2 and all the 2D C&C modding might transit over to it the engine may as well become interesting for Dune and Dilachs favorite games Earth and what not it might become with some modifications even interesting for turn based strategy and so on. In the long run OpenRA could be your ladder into endless amount of modding possibilities but you rather want to waste your efforts on what exactly? You don't even have TibEd but fine I will do my part to your epic quest and bring TibEd to this community.
Expanding to Empire at War and Battlefield Middle Earth heck even UAW would be a very wise decision I think and you know why? Because they are SAGE engine related. If you want to expand ow so much then do it with logical steps. I am telling you this because you sound like a maniac "I want ALL da gamemods on PMM!". It wouldn't surprise me if other sites that focus on modding the games you want to bring here wouldn't like that move and get pretty pissed. But anyway its up to you and I hope you thought things through.
Good Luck _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
Don't ask why I tell this I myself don't know.
There's this one C&C mod for GTA San Andreas. It looks dead since 2012. Made by that guy with which I do not get along anymore. Here's the link: http://www.moddb.com/mods/command-conquer-san-andreas
---
There's also the HEAVEN modding community. I do not know much about them apart that they cover Age of Empires and that Empire at War Heaven is called heaven too so maybe they are related. http://eaw.heavengames.com/
Seems pretty dead too.
Maybe you wanna move your butt over to them and talk a bit with them about your plans. maybe they'll agree and move their stuff over, maybe they'll hate you who knows. Worth a try? Perhaps.
---
Finally consider killing off TiberiumWeb once and for all but don't forget to bring all the valuable stuff over. Makes no sense that you keep it in a sort of coma limbo just because of some nostalgia feeling while now wanting to be some sort of spongebob absorbing everything.
There's the RA3 mods that I like a lot. The Red Alert and the abandoned projects by Sighnapse. Maybe you wanna go to moddb and talk to them offering them to host them here. Maybe the Red Alert team considers it and maybe Sighnapse although unlikely could pull himself together and at least release his mod.
There's also C&C Paradise, they currently run interviews of C&C modders and many C&C modders who seem to be not active on PPM hang out there. The Vortex mod and N-patch would be something perhaps as well as the Redux team. Again move your butt over there and talk to them, offer them getting hosted here and maybe they'll agree.
---
The Wargame community had a breakthrough in modding recently. They can alter textures and change stats with a released modding suite sort of SDK that work with HEX editor or so. They will take alll help for granted and Wargame could be interesting for bringing TD to it however without stealth units and buildings...
---
World in Conflict might be worth taking a look into as well and the Empire Earth series. The later is part of Heaven as well I guess.
---
The Chinese modding community and other far away countries. I myself consider them to be a pandoras box better not to be opened but maybe you wanna take a peak into it.
MODDB is huge and full with people who have given up and unfinished projects and honestly it sounds just like pouring salt into the open wound but hey it can't hurt to hit them up can it?
There's also some shooters worth to notice but I am too tired to look them up for you. renegade mods and that unreal renegade conversion.
---
Most of the stuff above is a lost cause tbh so I'd highly recommend sparing your efforts to put them all into OpenRa.
---
Last but not least if you are so dire to get as much stuff as possible here heck if you want it ow so much I can offer you to bring my mods to here as well. http://www.moddb.com/mods/orange-alerthttp://www.moddb.com/mods/orange-touch-up
I have a tournament planned and could use some help with my campaigns that could become compatible with all TS mods.
I still find your idea idiotic BS and don't want to see it happen at all the way you want it however hey why the ztype not. And yea this is shameless advertising for my own goals maybe I get to benefit from this a bit too. I also note no mention of you at all regarding the Steam Workshop... ofc it would be the most stupid thing ever to bring anything Workshop related to PPM instead of to steam but hey its your plan not mine. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Maybe just maybe because RA2 = TS to some degree? You talk about games such as the newer Fallout and I am sorry to tell you that Fallout modding stuff belongs there http://newvegas.nexusmods.com//? and certainly not to PPM same goes for most if not all other games that aren't C&C. That said doesn't exclude C&C themed mods for non C&C games. You are very naive if you can't see the difference between TS modders starting to make some steps in RA2 then liking it then expanding it and some Admin out of nowhere wanting to acquire modding communities from other places.
I am not naive. I know these games are modded in a completely different way than TS and I'm not trying to convert the existing TS/RA2 modders into Fallout or any other game here. What I want is to estimulate people who has once modded TS/RA2/etc and is now modding a different game to share their knowledge here, in order to accumulate content about different games and, maybe, in a long term, develop a community for this game.
Quote:
As you say yourself PPM still lacks in content for many C&C games I recommend to you that you start there with your efforts before you even just think about non C&C games.
Of course I'll try to get the games we already cover expanded. This topic has never meant to abandon any C&C game. PPM is just not restricted to C&C.
Quote:
BTW the asset section is still a mess and don't get me started on the spotlights.
I agree and this is why I'm coding a lot of stuff to organize the data here. Check out my plans at my previous post.
Quote:
You are also by far not the ultimate source for even TS or RA2 modding as I still have to go to other sites looking stuff up be it ModEnc or YRArg. This is the time to refine and polish up yourself but definitely not to reinvent.
I've never meant that PPM is the ultimate source for any game and I don't want that to happen. It is important for PPM that other sites also cover subjects that PPM covers, as long as they generate content about these subjects. It helps to make these subjects more attractive to more people. So, sites like TiberiumWeb, YR Argentina, ModEnc CNCNZ and projects like TibED were always being promoted by us. The problem with C&C specifically is that CNCNZ is the last english speaking pillar of the game and it is close to go down due to lack of motivation from its leaders. They enjoy covering new C&C games, but the franchise is now over and it is being dropped by EA.
Quote:
Your lack of response to my point that this move would harm other modding communities and segregate them... I hope you don't ignore this just because you don't care otherwise you'd deserve no better than what happens to EA.
I do not understand what are you talking about.
Quote:
It would be infuriating for me having to look at 5+ sites to get info assets community and what not for modding 1 game. The last thing I wanna look at in a C&C community is Fallout or some other non C&C game.
I don't think any site has the right to claim exclusive rights over any kind of content. It would be terrible for Fallout to be concentrated in only one site and it would eventually fade away with the lack of interesting from the people who get bored to mod or play this game.
Quote:
You are not MODDB don't think you can become it.
In a low term, PPM won't be ModDB. In a very long term, it has all conditions to become one, as long as it gets a proper infrastructure and it is properly managed. Of course, it is a hard challenge, but I see it as something interesting for PPM.
Quote:
You neither seem to be a place where OpenRA is active. Tell me Banshee you failed to become the hub where OpenRA resides yet you think you can bring other communities here?
We've never officially supported OpenRA. We just posted news about it and eventually hosted some of their files. The official OpenRA forums lies at Sleipnir Stuff because one of the main developpers of that game happens to be Sleipnir himself and OpenRA is certainly one of his main motivations to keep his forums alive. So, I never had the expectation to have official OpenRA forums here. The best I can do is to create a non-official modding forums for the game here, which I plan to do soon.
Quote:
You better start focussing on OpenRA because I can guarantee you if it is successful unlike Generals 2 it might become one of the biggest things we've seen. TS and RA2 and all the 2D C&C modding might transit over to it the engine may as well become interesting for Dune and Dilachs favorite games Earth and what not it might become with some modifications even interesting for turn based strategy and so on. In the long run OpenRA could be your ladder into endless amount of modding possibilities but you rather want to waste your efforts on what exactly?
You taking into account the conversion of the existing TS/RA2 modders to OpenRA. As I reiterate: my objective is not to convert the existing community. It is to expand the topics we cover and our content.
But I know that OpenRA is certainly a game that would be successfull here anyway, due to the easy transition from TS/RA2 into it.
Quote:
You don't even have TibEd but fine I will do my part to your epic quest and bring TibEd to this community.
Leave it at CNCNZ.com.
In order to PPM expand, we don't need to destroy other communities.
Quote:
Expanding to Empire at War and Battlefield Middle Earth heck even UAW would be a very wise decision I think and you know why? Because they are SAGE engine related. If you want to expand ow so much then do it with logical steps.
Battle for Middle Earth indeed uses SAGE engine. UAW uses Alamo, but if the idea is to cover Alamo, it would be better to start with Empire at War, which is far more popular with that. Battlefield is something else .
Also, thanks for your survey about other communities. Your mods are welcomed here. PM me with the name and description of the forums (and subforums) of your projects. And you are overestimating my plans. I don't wanna command and conquer the world of modding, nor bring everything to be controlled by PPM. I just want PPM to be a friendly place to mod any kind of game. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject:
Banshee wrote:
But I know that OpenRA is certainly a game that would be successfull here anyway, due to the easy transition from TS/RA2 into it.
This is bullshit. OpenRA yamls are a bigger mess than WW INIs. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
slightly offtopic:
We seem to completely understand each other however differ in views. Well so be it its your place. I think that you should become the ultimate source for modding C&C because currently C&C desperately needs such a place while you seem to think that having as many sites as possible spreading out everything is the better idea. Well ok I can guarantee you that it wont work and do more harm than any good despite your good intentions. Because this is one of the prime reasons why most of the groups on moddb die. If there's one thing I know about then its moddb groups which are just a community hub like you.
OpenRA is a work in progress maybe the yamls wont stay messy but hey no clue. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
Well, my only real experience is Revora, which hosts many games, most of them dead and very little if no communication between games. It's essentially a collection of communities rather than one community with several games and IMO that's a bad thing. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:49 pm Post subject:
Wow, is this the same OrangeNero that was an ass a couple of months ago? He looks like a completely different person now.
Anyways, Banshee, I have this to say: you sound ztyping desperate about this 'PPM may die' thing. We have lasted 13 years, why shouldn't we last for another dozen? Hell, if something this community proves, is that with an almost 15 year old game you still can find new stuff (look at the research/workarounds). That is what is keeping this community alive. And wth, even if PPM dies, is it really the end of the world? Yes, it would be a major shame, but it's not like all our lives depend on it (I hope). QUICK_EDIT
Wow, is this the same OrangeNero that was an ass a couple of months ago? He looks like a completely different person now.
Anyways, Banshee, I have this to say: you sound ztyping desperate about this 'PPM may die' thing. We have lasted 13 years, why shouldn't we last for another dozen? Hell, if something this community proves, is that with an almost 15 year old game you still can find new stuff (look at the research/workarounds). That is what is keeping this community alive. And wth, even if PPM dies, is it really the end of the world? Yes, it would be a major shame, but it's not like all our lives depend on it (I hope).
Don't forget that core of RA2/TS gamers were teens when these games were released and that core is 13/14 years older. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:14 pm Post subject:
Martin Killer wrote:
Dutchygamer wrote:
Wow, is this the same OrangeNero that was an ass a couple of months ago? He looks like a completely different person now.
Anyways, Banshee, I have this to say: you sound ztyping desperate about this 'PPM may die' thing. We have lasted 13 years, why shouldn't we last for another dozen? Hell, if something this community proves, is that with an almost 15 year old game you still can find new stuff (look at the research/workarounds). That is what is keeping this community alive. And wth, even if PPM dies, is it really the end of the world? Yes, it would be a major shame, but it's not like all our lives depend on it (I hope).
Don't forget that core of RA2/TS gamers were teens when these games were released and that core is 13/14 years older.
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Location: Teamblackistan Posts: Over 9000
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject:
I think the best approach is to hook up with other sites that are based on mods for older games, since they've probably been faced with similar issues. Maybe we find how they've coped, and apply it to PPM.
Overall, I don't understand all this backlash against Bansh in this thread; he's right about needing fresh blood and is actively looking for suggestions on how to expand.. This is our freakin community, and should be working with him to keep it alive and well.
Us tibwebbers have already seen our own community fall apart, however that was coupled along with serious site issues, lazy-ass admins, and yes - failure to expand.
What I mean is, even though PPM has toughed it out all these years, we shouldn't take that fact for granted, or let that make us get too complacent _________________ The Fall of Hammerfest - Epic Tiberian chain story
Tiberian Odyssey mapping department. Discord The Team Black Index Last edited by Team Black on Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject:
@OrangeNero: Thanks for your input anyway and your survey. I'm taking that into account for the future of PPM.
Quote:
Well, my only real experience is Revora, which hosts many games, most of them dead and very little if no communication between games. It's essentially a collection of communities rather than one community with several games and IMO that's a bad thing.
Revora has a little problem that PPM doesn't have. Revora is splitted into islands that try to link themselves into one forum. It's more complicated. The data generated in The3rdAge doesn't communicate with C&C Guild that doesn't communicate with Petrolution. To make things worse, the only thing from the forums that is used by the site is the news. There are multiples things to submit the same kind of data (you can post a C&C modding tutorial at Revora Forums, CnC Guild, YR Argentina, SDI, GenDev and few other places). The only thing that is reused is the login data. Even the forums themselves are too much splitted due to the concept of Divisions.
PPM's data is united in only one place and whatever you submit in the forums here can be re-used anywhere and the organization of the data is more flexible. The forums also help to provide more interaction of people who mod different games.
Quote:
you sound ztyping desperate about this 'PPM may die' thing. We have lasted 13 years, why shouldn't we last for another dozen? Hell, if something this community proves, is that with an almost 15 year old game you still can find new stuff (look at the research/workarounds). That is what is keeping this community alive. And wth, even if PPM dies, is it really the end of the world? Yes, it would be a major shame, but it's not like all our lives depend on it (I hope).
It wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd certainly be very pissed off. I do have sentimental connections to PPM. It's something that I've raised from scratch with a life-time effort. I'm very proud of it. If it dies, it will demand an absurd effort to bring back the activity that PPM has today in a new project. QUICK_EDIT
I love PPM and I would hate to see it go six feet under with so many other C&C communities. This site currently holds the title for the most active TS and RA2 modding community going as of this date, and given how many sites there were this time 10 years ago, that's pretty impressive. The sad news is that communities do indeed come and go, especially when most of us like to stick with what we know, which is a game franchise coming up to 20 years of age.
A lot of you take what Banshee does for granted and forget that he's not just a site moderator, but he puts a lot of money and effort into this community just so we can do what we do, so I don't understand why so many of you are giving him such a hard time. I'm sure a lot of you wouldn't even have the knowledge or tools for modding that you do now if it wasn't for Banshee and PPM. Besides, he's right; In order for a community to keep breathing, it needs fresh blood and something to offer that attracts more people than just C&C fans... A lot of us first joined TumSun before it turned into TibWeb and eventually died, mostly because it had nothing to offer that PPM didn't already have.
I have done a lot for this community myself, I have posted tons of assets, helpful threads, tutorials, hosted several competitions and of course, Twisted Insurrection (PPM will always be its home to me). I will continue to do all that I can to keep blood flowing through this website, but the lack of activity has been very noticeable. Back in 2007, Every day the homepage would tell me that there had been at least 375 new posts a day, and now when I check after a day, it's lucky if there are 20 new posts.
I disagree with the fact that we've lasted 12 years and could easily last another 12, the sad truth as already said is that all things eventually come to an end. We're modding games that a very select few people still care about or even know so the end is inevitable. The best way to prevent a community like this from dying is to stop spreading and thinning it out. I See a lot of people making fan sites and alternative forums in some kind of attempt to help, but it just makes the activity thing worse.
Honestly, I don't know what to suggest as a course of action, because as many people have already said, this is where I come for C&C modding, and a lot of people have the same point of view, but it doesn't have to be like that. The only real solution I can think of is to give PPM a reformatting. Possibly rename the site and give it a make-over, make it even more clear that we are an all-stars modding community, even though our biggest area of interest is C&C/RTS. I think Morpher put it best.
I am also inclined to agree that a possible approach to boosting our activity would be to have a meeting with other admins on other websites. For example, the guys at CNCNZ & Revora. Whilst they are not entirely active communities, if we were all the same domain, then we would be active as a whole. Certain features are what attract members to some websites. Twisted Insurrection, for example, has brought a lot of members to PPM from various other sites that I have posted on. They came for the mod, but stayed for the community. D-Day has done the same, Robot Storm and Mental Omega have done it for Revora and CNCNZ's fantastic ability to make it seem like there is endless news reporting every other hour of the day are why people think it's the number one place to go to. There is also CnC-Comm that has done a fantastic job of making itself known for being the place that stays true to the classics and has a lot of things available there that you can't find anywhere else.
More examples: CNCNet, OpenRA
Long story short: What this place needs are more factors to actually attract people. Things that are here and only here, not spread out across the whole web. Last edited by Aro on Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:37 pm Post subject:
All fine and well, and of course I understand this is Banshee's baby he would hate to see go down, but as I said before multiple times, how are we going to attract new projects from other games if all the other games have their communities like C&C has PPM? I'm not taking my mod to a Minecraft community just for the heck of it, so why would it be the other way around?
Also, I hope you know as well as me that pretty much every non-WW project attracts just 1%-5% of the interest compared of a WW project. The community is partly to blame, due to being stuck in the TS/RA2 era and almost shunning everything newer. Seeing how hard it is for even official C&C games to get some attention, what would an outsider with a project for a different game (say Minecraft) think? If I were said outsider and and would see this trend, I wouldn't bring my Minecraft project here as no one would be interested in it or just plain pay no attention to it.
Simple as that: as long as this community only focusses on WW C&C games, and shuns everything newer even if it is an official C&C game, no one would bother bringing their non-C&C project here. QUICK_EDIT
Also, I hope you know as well as me that pretty much every non-WW project attracts just 1%-5% of the interest compared of a WW project.
I beg to differ. While this is the case for PPM it definitely is not for moddb. Especially Tiberium Essence for TW has a huge and loyal following even doing fan videos and unit presentations and a small community that plays over Hamachi. Contra for Generals also has an active MP and therefor gotta have quite a following as well. The modder Gunship has brought his Generals mod into the RA3 engine and is a very helpful and kind fellow however a loner but he will help when you talk to him.
Sighnapse had quite a fanbase as well. Heck he made me buy RA3.
One of the biggest issues PPM has is that the non modders don't come here. You're more of an insider place which is good for the whole research and modding cause but poison for attracting new members.
PPM is hardly dying. Aydra and TiberFCSL and me recently brought a lot of action to the TS part and the RA2 guys Zero and MasterHoasis also have brought a lot of live to the place. Sadly the elitist crap has drove them away... despite Banshee's poor tries to ensure a peaceful environment PPM is a very harsh place but it got its charm kind of like a cult. We should really ban political discussions from the board however, the less we know about each other the more we are able to get along.
TBH I was very surprised when I started modding about how much activity we have got here in the last 2 years.
Aro came up with UMP
CNC graphics patch made its debut fixing the lag problem
all sorts of Competitions
many new mods as mentioned above
some south american guys joining the place
Ares updates and what not
research coming up with a few things that I can't remember atm
If you guys want a steady flow of new members who do modding and not just comment "NICE DO LIKE" you'll need to become more accessible and advertise where the people are which would be moddb.
Now I don't know if its good saying but maybe considering making ppmsite a pure elitist forum invitation only could help when you at the same time establish a new ppm on lets say moddb where you do the whole public stuff. 2 hubs connected by being organized by the same people about the same thing essentially. Invitation only in the form of posting not reading. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:30 pm Post subject:
Elitist forums are bad. Sane to idiot ratio should be around 3:1 but 1 is needed incase idiots start to cry out loud that community doesn't welcome newbies.
OTOH, most of the stuff you say I can agree with. If there is need of something fresh blood then it should be something we already has assets to, or gather easily. Which is OpenRA atm. I doubtr we could convert the hordes and gazillions of our voxels into something useful for a 3D games with VXLSE as it is now...
If that would be possible, now that would be a total different scenario. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:40 pm Post subject:
In a low term, Open RA is the game with higher chances to work here. Support for old C&C games such as TD, RA1 and Renegade is something I'm seriously considering, specially TD and RA1, which we already have tools that work with them.
VXLSE III's 3D Modelizer is still being worked on and it is indeed a long term plan, or at least something for 2015 or later. Parametrization is a very complicated matter in computer science. QUICK_EDIT
Well for all the adoration Sighnapse is getting it is hard to remember all the shit he got for liking C&C4. Hell I'm surprised any one of us that admitted liking C&C4 is still a C&C fan, but again. Same with R3ven, who also was scooped into the paradox machine.
Though having the skills to be rolled into paradox and then other projects helps. (Not saying anything negative, Sighnapse Helped me out metricly in my early RA3 days.) _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:07 pm Post subject:
OrangeNero wrote:
Dutchygamer wrote:
Also, I hope you know as well as me that pretty much every non-WW project attracts just 1%-5% of the interest compared of a WW project.
I beg to differ. While this is the case for PPM it definitely is not for moddb. Especially Tiberium Essence for TW has a huge and loyal following even doing fan videos and unit presentations and a small community that plays over Hamachi. Contra for Generals also has an active MP and therefor gotta have quite a following as well. The modder Gunship has brought his Generals mod into the RA3 engine and is a very helpful and kind fellow however a loner but he will help when you talk to him.
I meant on PPM, not in general. I know that Generals has loads of mods on ModDB, although most are like the TS/RA2 mods: unofficial expansions with generally the same ideas. There are few unique mods that try to transform the game into something different, but with similar gameplay. C&C3 mods are a bit rarer and suffer from the same. RA3 mods can be counted on one hand. QUICK_EDIT
Well for all the adoration Sighnapse is getting it is hard to remember all the shit he got for liking C&C4. Hell I'm surprised any one of us that admitted liking C&C4 is still a C&C fan, but again. Same with R3ven, who also was scooped into the paradox machine.
Though having the skills to be rolled into paradox and then other projects helps. (Not saying anything negative, Sighnapse Helped me out metricly in my early RA3 days.)
Dude for the love of god shut it with your BS about C&C4. You are zombolt from moddb too aren't you? Even the devs from Generals 2 said that C&C 4 was a fail in every way and when you finally would start to accept the god damn fact that it was originally a shitty MMO for the asian market that got in a last money milking attempt torn into the direction of becoming the epic conclusion of the Tiberium saga you would maybe not get that much flak but no you rather go love the biggest abomination C&C has ever seen. Its a ztyping MOBA and C&C fans want an RTS why can't you get that into your thick skull ffs? Heck even the C&C4 devs reportedly protested against this move of the EA management.
Yea sure it wasn't the nicest way you guys got threated including by me but neither is your adoration and constant attack and "teaching" of how everything EA does with C&C being good of any help or nice.
Get over it and look forward. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
[rant]
But DUH I am Zombolt from ModDB. How long did it take you? And yes I am sour about the whole community, But if you really wanted to see my tear, just mention the console patch. I use to get roaring about having a patch on the 360 version of CnC3 and KW.
By the way, I never said TT was Good, just for people to not say that it is the spawn of satan. Average is not horrible! Just not great. RA3 is great, YR is great. TT is Okay at best, dumb as ztype at worst. But you probably never read my post due to most of them being negative bombed out of existence.
But Please, Tell me who does not have WW in there childhood about how I should stop looking back?
[/rant]
I'm sorry, that was unprofessional of me. _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
When I referred to dead groups on moddb I also had The Conyard in mind
[/evil kick in the nuts]
You used to have standards Zombolt. Now you're down to rant at Happy Birthday posts.
I had good intentions and wanted to see you guys smile not your tears when I offered to negotiate. But sadly your faction proved to be too sore and preferred to part ways. Your main point was always that C&C4 was a good game, granted not a good C&C but as a game not bad. Sadly I have to differ there as well.
Quote:
But Please, Tell me who does not have WW in there childhood about how I should stop looking back?
I don't understand your question. Maybe you wanna rephrase that once you calmed down. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
And goodnight. I'm off to post tutorials! _________________ I am Zengar Zombolt, The Sword That Cleaves Evil! There is Nothing I can not Cut! QUICK_EDIT
That reminds me I had a TibEd tutorial in mind. Thanks should get going to do something productive as well. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
I could quote banshee about wanting to be a nice community but it would be more salt in more open wounds.
@Dutchy you were just a bit confused back there because we happened to agree. I am still the same blunt and honest person that I was before. You might see me as an ass but people here call me butthead. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
I could quote banshee about wanting to be a nice community but it would be more salt in more open wounds.
@Dutchy you were just a bit confused back there because we happened to agree. I am still the same blunt and honest person that I was before. You might see me as an ass but people here call me butthead.
Well, you did had a point about the political forum: if we would get rid of that, PPM would be a bit better place. But that is not the matter at hand. QUICK_EDIT
As PPMsite is part of our otherwise thin content mirror list and we don't appreciate that in-game (yet) I hereby promise to answer some OpenRA modding related questions once they pop-up and I notice them. It still has some quirks to it and we lack https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki documentation. For this to work best: post your complete (yaml) code, preferrably fork https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA so it is possible to see a diff or something to quickly git fetch and test out. It is sometimes better to have more time to think about an answer than in IRC. QUICK_EDIT
You know OrangeNero has a very good point (despite the slightly offhand attitude), removing the political forum might not be such a bad idea, it's essentially a very easy way for community members to split over reasons they didn't come to this forum for, the Crap Forum also serves no real purpose other than to keep flame ways and arguments alive a little longer in the public eye, it comes off as unfriendly and unprofessional. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: banshee_revora (Steam) Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Location: Brazil
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:55 am Post subject:
Re: OpenRA
Regarding the offtopic forums, they are... well... offtopic. I know the politics forum is particularly errrm....very heated. If more people support the idea, I can hide it. The crap forum is necessary and it was never meant to be professional, I mean, look at the description.
As PPMsite is part of our otherwise thin content mirror list and we don't appreciate that in-game (yet) I hereby promise to answer some OpenRA modding related questions once they pop-up and I notice them. It still has some quirks to it and we lack https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/wiki documentation. For this to work best: post your complete (yaml) code, preferrably fork https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA so it is possible to see a diff or something to quickly git fetch and test out. It is sometimes better to have more time to think about an answer than in IRC.
The Star Wars Battle of Series http://www.moddb.com/games/starwars-battle-of-endor take a look at the links in the description. Very easy to mod. _________________ Free Tibed!
EA for worst company of the decade! QUICK_EDIT
I don't like the idea of restricting the forums to gaming discussion only. People usually want to discuss other subjects as well, and if we only do it in completely seperate communities (i.e. one for modding, one for political discussion), people will never be able to share ideas and opinions with those who might have a different opinion/view. The whole idea with political discussion is to consider conflicting views and reach a consensus, not shut oneself in a group of like-minded people. It just needs better/more strict moderation to ensure it doesn't get too heated. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
http://www.moddb.com/engines/pyrogenesis the 0 AD engine has some impressive C&C like projects using it (well, they did not release anything, but the renderers look nice).
Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere in Germany
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:07 am Post subject:
Graion Dilach wrote:
Banshee wrote:
But I know that OpenRA is certainly a game that would be successfull here anyway, due to the easy transition from TS/RA2 into it.
This is bullshit. OpenRA yamls are a bigger mess than WW INIs.
Should that alone really be a hindrance?
If you seriously tried and got used to yamls and actually bothered learning how to do things in OpenRA (I do, and I'd say it's nowhere near as bad as you make it sound), and more importantly how powerful the engine already has become in some regards, you'd realize that it is on track to become a viable alternative even to YR+Ares, because in some areas it already IS far more powerful and customizable, while progressing at a faster pace than Ares does (this is not meant as criticism or offense btw, OpenRA simply has the advantage of being a fully open source engine with more than 2 contributors). QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:14 am Post subject:
I don't doubt it'll powerful on a day. But those YAMLs and the funky actor system is just something I don't understand.
The wiki tutorials are useless, because they just list everything and figure out every junk on your own. There are no particular aid to start modding it.
I was like, okay, check code then, since I know C#.... but even the code has no documentation or at least a class hierarchy (have to say, I was cba to doxygen one for myself). There's no aid to start contributing on, or anything.
I don't even understand what code is in the mod dll and what code is in the engine. Or why are there separate code dlls for TD and RA1 at all...
Because yes, I was thinking about converting my mod to OpenRA now that it has SHP and VXL support... I even thought about recreating Ares-RA2 features in OpenRA for that, but this is a lulzy mess. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Looks like we need a Westwood2D INI modders → OpenRA YAML tutorial. The biggest difference is probably nesting. This should be explained easily by example and putting them next to each other.
By the way: we also think about renaming our MiniYaml files to .oraml as we deviate from the yaml specs pretty much with tabs instead of spaces being the most crucial incompatibilities. Maybe some syntax high-lighting rules or even code completion for Notepad++ might help.
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:51 am Post subject:
That's something I'd welcome. And the separation levels between mod core dlls and engine dlls as well.
Calling broken standards as your own syntax is a bad idea. Why don't you just fix the syntax... or better, imitate Python's nesting? That wouldn't break previous files but also fix the standard issue.
Either sway, user support shouldn't be purely happening on IRC alone. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere in Germany
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:53 am Post subject:
@GraionDilach:
Now that's something I can agree with, modding OpenRA currently requires too much trial and error and looking at the source code to learn about some of its features.
Matthias M. wrote:
Looks like we need a Westwood2D INI modders → OpenRA YAML tutorial. The biggest difference is probably nesting. This should be explained easily by example and putting them next to each other.
For quite some time now I've had the idea of replacing the current, IMO rather pointless 'example mod' (the "Requires:" features is supposed to be deprecated at some point anyway, right?) with a true example mod, that a) unleashes the full potential of the engine where the current shipping mods fail to do so, providing examples and explanations for features that the remakes currently do not or at least not fully use, and b) ships with playtests and releases. That combined with a detailed FAQ/tutorial would help a lot, I think. QUICK_EDIT
You cannot post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
.
OpenRA
