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 Forum index » Modding Central » Tiberian Sun Editing Forum
ddraw.dll alternative (Request for testing)
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Krow
Commander


Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Location: Malaysia

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bump to request sticky.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good point.
stickied.
headline a bit changed.

I've allowed myself to quote the external pages text, in case the site will be down, the information is saved here.
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Last edited by Lin Kuei Ominae on Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also in response to previous comment in this thread, Twisted Insurrection does indeed now feature this patch, however as a few members of the community say that the patch causes even more problems rather than fixes, there are going to be two Executables in future releases. One with the hack applied (at this moment in time, GAME.exe) and one without the hack (Twisted Insurrection.exe).
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MrTweek
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got an exception after using this patch in addition with the cchyper-patch Sad

i generate a random Map and starts building, some units worse exploring the Map (near my base) then an exception occours) =/


game.exe_cchyper-patched.zip
 Description:
this game.exe has the cchyper-patch attached is the except.txt

Download
 Filename:  game.exe_cchyper-patched.zip
 Filesize:  1.63 MB
 Downloaded:  167 Time(s)


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MrTweek
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the bug seems to be a laserdrawclass-Bug so it doenst seems to be ddraw error =) If anyone cant patch his excutable he can use these excutable Smile

But its nice that the game now runs VERY faster and the performance is very good. Sometimes when i had build lowcost-structure (like silos) the game worse very lagging =) Thanks for your work Smile

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the previous page i posted, that this exe patch would slow down my game. Now i revise this.

New GraCa drivers fixed the issues and now the game runs with this hack faster than without it.

Since i'm using a laptop for which there aren't any drivers given by the OEM, i was stuck using the old drivers delivered with the laptop. (it's horrible finding drivers for laptops #Mad especially for stupid Vista laptops on which you want to install WinXP)

However i found the nice tool Mobility Modder which allowed me to patch/update the newest catalyst drivers, so i can install them for my Mobility Radeon.
With these set, everything (also FinalSun) runs a lot faster.
I also had the issue of having lags with the "Show Building outline" Option enabled in FinalSun, which is now gone too. Very Happy

Result: even if many issues in the past were reduced to the hardware, updating the drivers can definitely help too.
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deepblue22
Medic


Joined: 05 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under XP I'm having the issue of a slowdown in LAN multiplayer when there are large amounts of units on the map (for example with 6 players). Also the same for Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge.
Will the Graphics Patcher fix this issue so that everything runs smooth just like at the start of the game?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, because this slowdown is simply a matter of mass of units and not a matter of wrong hardware usage or problems with certain logics.
You can't expect a game to run smooth with 300 units just like with only 3 units.

But this fixes slowdowns when building something cheap and slowdowns when drawing transparent stuff like gasclouds.

Read my posts above. I also increased performance significantly by installing new GraCa drivers.
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deepblue22
Medic


Joined: 05 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but the issue of a slowdown when there are large amounts of units after some time on the map, still persists. So I would state this issue as an assignment. A mission.., to make gameplay stay smooth even when there are lots of units visible on the map. Smile

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Impossible.
No one will go into the depths of the game engine
-to change the pathfinding
-the data structure of the units
-the artificial intelligence
-the render engine
and many other aspects of the engine and change them to be more efficient. Especially since there are always natural/physical limits. You simply can't write code that runs with the same performance for 1MB and 500MB big data.

Then you can also ask for a learning AI, Shader support, 3D graphics, 64 multiplayer support etc.
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X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant unit, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
No, because this slowdown is simply a matter of mass of units and not a matter of wrong hardware usage or problems with certain logics.

Sure, it can't do anything about more units making the game more demanding, but if the graphics patcher makes the rendering part of a frame take less time, it might make the game slightly faster also in situations where there's a large amount of units on the map / screen.

@deepblue22: I'd say give it a try, it most likely won't hurt either. Also, please stop using a high font size, your posts are easy enough to read and they'll also be noticed even with the default font size.
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deepblue22
Medic


Joined: 05 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will give the Graphics Patcher a try.

I thought only RAM and CPU is the limit. So if a Command & Conquer game runs out of CPU or RAM, the gameplay should slow down.
However this is not a matter of CPU or RAM in case of large amounts of units, but something different. I think one could have a 20 GHz CPU, but the game still would slow down when there is a certain amount of units from all players on the map.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Removed the big font size. Please don't use that in a common way for your entire texts. Wink

There are factors which you don't consider.
1. calculations might be potential, thus only a hardware speed increase of 2^n would help. e.g. After a while, a single additional unit could make doubling of the hardware necessary to keep the same performance.
2. Pathfinding in C&C takes a lot of processing power. Thus many units trying to find a path is no easy task for the PC.
3. the game could use some strange calculations which aren't using the whole processing power of CPU and/or GPU, but only a fraction of it.
4. i might be wrong, but C&C is not multithreading, thus it doesn't matters if you have a single, double core or 128 core CPU. It would only take one core and a single core of todays multicore CPUs isn't much faster than the ones 8 years ago. (1.5 to 4 GHz per Core; or 8.429 GHz with nitrogen cooling #Tongue )
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X-Mech Calendar (28 Mechs for GDI and Nod)
5 GDI, 5 Nod, 1 Mutant unit, 1 Scrin unit, 1 GDI building

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Last edited by Lin Kuei Ominae on Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:38 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4) is entirely correct, 3)... TS and RA2 only uses the CPU (using VRAM doesn't mean it uses GPU as well...)
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deepblue22
Medic


Joined: 05 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe I remember the CPU wasn't maxed out as it began to slow down. I will re-check this.

BTW, I use the "Tiberian Sun / Red Alert 2 LAN Patch" (UDP protocol instead of IPX). Maybe it's a matter of LAN. Maybe a 100 MBit LAN is not enough after there is a certain amount of units on the map. I don't know...
I only know that large amounts of units cause a slowdown. Mad Very Happy

3. If so, then these strange calculations will become active after a certain amount of units.
Hmm.., I believe 3. might be. Smile

Last edited by deepblue22 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Removed the big font size. Please don't use that in a common way for your entire texts. Wink

Once again. Last warning.
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Exley
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 09 May 2011
Location: X-Files

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry but that ain't big font at all
the default one is like ant size

I usually have set all web pages to be zoomed 130% to have it barely
readable, going to 100% (normal) is too damn small
and what he has in this post is just ok

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is. And it is annoying. Considering the fact that he even reverted a moderator edit (!)...

You've got guts, but no mind.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He'll waste his time reverting moderator edits. I'm with LKO on this one. Big font is annoying.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exley wrote:
sorry but that ain't big font at all
the default one is like ant size

I've edited his posts to change his font 14 back to the normal size.

Exley wrote:
I usually have set all web pages to be zoomed 130% to have it barely
readable, going to 100% (normal) is too damn small
and what he has in this post is just ok

That's your personal taste and indeed fine. But me and (i think) most others don't like to scroll endlessly because of big posts due to huge fonts.

Also imagine how horrible it would be to read the posts, if each user would use a different font size and maybe even color. It would be impossible to find the relevant and useful information between all this clutter.
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deepblue22
Medic


Joined: 05 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW I would have written in blue, but this wouldn't be readable with that bgcolor. Razz

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deepblue22 wrote:
I believe I remember the CPU wasn't maxed out as it began to slow down. I will re-check this.

It won't be maxed out if it's a multi-core CPU; only one core will be fully used. For example, if you have a quad-core processor like some Core 2 Quad or Core i5 or AMD Phenom II X4, only one core of the CPU's 4 cores (1 / 4) will be used and as such your CPU usage while playing TS will be only 25%.
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deepblue22
Medic


Joined: 05 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you are right. Maybe somebody could make it possible that all cores will be used for games like Tiberian Sun or Red Alert 2.
Oh.., this sounds like a difficult task. Rolling Eyes

Is there a tool which can determine if a game is multi-core compatible?

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AlexB
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's impossible. Either a game is developed with multi-threading or many cores in mind or not. I guess, even with the source code, adding support for this would take more time than rewriting the entire game.

Are you compensating for something?
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deepblue22
Medic


Joined: 05 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. So a strong single-core would be a solution. Haha, I guess I will have to wait for better CPUs. Then I will, again, build many units to see if the slowdown is still present.

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deepblue22 wrote:
OK. So a strong single-core would be a solution. Haha, I guess I will have to wait for better CPUs. Then I will, again, build many units to see if the slowdown is still present.

A single core of a modern multi-core CPU is already much much much faster than any older single-core CPU. If everything you do is just spamming units, you can and will get the game slowing down at some point, no matter the hardware. To be honest TS runs very well on any modern system (especially with the graphics patcher), you should pretty much never have enough units to actually slow the game down if you're playing it normally.
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deepblue22
Medic


Joined: 05 Dec 2011

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Rampastein wrote:
If everything you do is just spamming units, you can and will get the game slowing down at some point, no matter the hardware.

Possible. I will report if I have a better CPU.
Let's hope the slowdown is CPU-related and not because of strange calculations which would make the gameplay strange. Very Happy

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Dubzac
Commander


Joined: 21 May 2004
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well i did A test of this "fix" and it still slowed down my game
but runs 25% faster with beowulf's [fen] solution. But with w7ddpatch as well runs even faster. still get the slow down with darken.shp but not half as bad as nothing at all.
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anthony_g4i
Civilian


Joined: 13 Jun 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ddraw.dll  and this patch (http://www.stuffhost.de/files/cnc/CnCPatcher.html),,,,, both ,,,,, are working in Windows Xp Sp3 ? (It for Yuri Revenge ,,, i need to optimize the framerate in multiplayer)

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