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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikademis Von Hisson wrote:
im all about terrain, just cant see how to get it to work.....there is 2 kinds of roads  tile style 11 four lane and style 12 two lane. though if i knew how to use than maybe it would be easier for to do some things, guess ill just stick to what i know for now.

What exactly are you trying to do with the roads?

Just in case there's any confusion; this tool isn't meant for creating terrain, but it's meant for quickly editing many existing terrain files at the same time. The first post of this topic should give you all the info you need already.
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Nikademis Von Hisson
General


Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Wilkes Barre PA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bittah Commander wrote:
Nikademis Von Hisson wrote:
im all about terrain, just cant see how to get it to work.....there is 2 kinds of roads  tile style 11 four lane and style 12 two lane. though if i knew how to use than maybe it would be easier for to do some things, guess ill just stick to what i know for now.

What exactly are you trying to do with the roads?

Just in case there's any confusion; this tool isn't meant for creating terrain, but it's meant for quickly editing many existing terrain files at the same time. The first post of this topic should give you all the info you need already.


Yeah, I know that its not for creating, but if I understand the posts it would make my job easier coloring them for FA2. The whole radar thing.
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I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikademis Von Hisson wrote:
im all about terrain, just cant see how to get it to work.....there is 2 kinds of roads  tile style 11 four lane and style 12 two lane. though if i knew how to use than maybe it would be easier for to do some things, guess ill just stick to what i know for now.

style 11, style 12 ??? Confused

as for changing the radar color
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
Usage:
1. Choose the folder that has all the tmp files with the "Select Directory" Button.
2. Create groups which will then contain the tmp files that should be edited in the same way.
3. Set the editing options for each group
4. Select the tmp files on the left that you wish to assign to the current group and press the >> button.
5. Once the groups got the files assigned, press "Start Modification"

Changing the radar color
The program can not give every single 1x1 tile in a big tmp a different radar color. It will give every one the same color defined in the group. That shouldn't be a problem though, since the radar needs to be made with less fancy colors anyway.

Where exactly do you get stuck?
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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to thank you for this tool btw, I used it recently while further expanding the Lunar theatre and it's palette. Was very useful at converting all the tiles between palettes in seconds. Thanks LKO. Smile

You can quote this if you need any advertisement. #Tongue
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Screw AttachEffect. Can't think of any use for it.

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Nikademis Von Hisson
General


Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Location: Wilkes Barre PA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you open the original 2 lane in metal marios tmp editor they are type 12 and the original 4 lane are 11.
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I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What type are you talking about? (terrain type, ramp type, foundation type...)

Please describe the problem and imagine that i have absolutely no clue on what you are working and what you want to do. Wink
Note: i also don't have RA2 installed so i can't see the files you see.

\EDIT
An idea for a new functionality needs your input.
The plan is to let TMP Shop create automatically a Marble Madness set for FinalSun/Alert.

The question is, how would you like to see such a feature realized? What should it do? How should the result look like?
Maybe even more important, do you have a use for such a feature in the first place?

Right now my idea is
-change the TMP into greyscale (maybe even reduce the amount of colors to only 8, to simplify the art)
-add text into each tile which says the terraintype used on that tile so mappers can see if a certain tile is passable or not (optional, can be set on/off before MM generation)

Things that are surely not possible
-adding a red line which you can use as reference for a closed cliff/shore line (no clue how i could programmatically know, which tile connects where to other tiles)
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it'd be preferable to use color codes instead of text to show the different terrain types. In most cases just using different colors for water, impassable ground and another for passable ground types (primarily clear and rough) would be enough already.
So instead of gray scale it'd be better to use some color tint filter/overlay.
Additionally being able to specify a specific tile/image to use for every cell that uses a certain terrain type could be useful.

An outline which clearly shows the shape of a tile would also be convenient (so when you use many tiles from the same set, you'll easily be able to tell where one tile starts and the next one stops; just to clarify, I'm using Westwood's terminology when talking about tiles, so: 1 tile == collection of multiple cells == 1 TMP).


And finally (this is mostly for yourself #Tongue), make it read Temperat.ini/Snow.ini to see which cell an animation is attached to and make it possible to give this cell a different color as well (or in this case text overlay would also work well enough).
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i guess it's best to offer color codes and external images via a menu, instead of coding something fixed.

Bittah Commander wrote:
An outline which clearly shows the shape of a tile would also be convenient (so when you use many tiles from the same set, you'll easily be able to tell where one tile starts and the next one stops; just to clarify, I'm using Westwood's terminology when talking about tiles, so: 1 tile == collection of multiple cells == 1 TMP).

Can you describe this in a different way. I'm not sure if i can follow you.
-the shape of a tile is visible via the cells that have a image and empty cells (In FinalSun, the empty cells are simply black), so i'm not sure what outline you mean
-but how should the program know where a tile starts/ends? There isn't any marker that says, cell 7 of the 5x4 tile is in the southwest and this cells is showing border between water and land. Thus other tiles with a water/land border in northeast can connect to this one.
The program is like a person who can't understand what it sees and only knows values like terraintype for each cell.

\Edit
oh wait, i think i got it. You just want an outline going along the border of the outer cells of a tile, since the MM version can be only a plain single color like blue for water.
And having 2 tiles placed next to each other in a map, you can't tell where one starts and the other ends because both are plain blue. So you also can't tell if one overlaps the other, because no border is visible on each tile.

yes that should be possible to do
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RP
Commander


Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mapping God Heaven

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like where the marble madness output is going.
Kinda fed up with paved roads showing up as a normal tile and other things.

It's a shame marble.mix isn't editable for FA2, so you'd have to go the extra mile to add MM for existing terrain too...
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Starkku
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Automatic MM tile generation using the normal variants as a template = yes please. Would save me tons of work.
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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
You just want an outline going along the border of the outer cells of a tile, since the MM version can be only a plain single color like blue for water.
And having 2 tiles placed next to each other in a map, you can't tell where one starts and the other ends because both are plain blue. So you also can't tell if one overlaps the other, because no border is visible on each tile.

yes that should be possible to do

Yeah, you got it Smile
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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RP wrote:
I like where the marble madness output is going.


Seconded.
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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apart from RA2, TMPShop also has this problem:

In Windows 7,  Control Panel -> Display -> Text size has 3 options
Smaller - 100% (Default), Medium - 125% and Large 150%

Setting it to say Medium causes UI problems. It is OK with Smaller - 100% (Default).

And thanks LKO for enriching the cnc community across forums, specially for TS.


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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean with "apart from RA2"? It fully supports RA2 TMP files (or at least it is supposed to be). Is there anything not working for RA2?

DPI interface bug fixed. Link in first post updated with version 09.
However i was only able to test it with 125%, as my Win7 has no 150%.

@others: Due to lot of work IRL, i haven't started yet on the MMG (Marble Madness Generator). Sad
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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On - Apart from RA2 - had just updated http://www.ppmsite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32466
There are several applications which get affected by the text size change of Win7, one of them is RA2 menu buttons.
Nothing related to TMP Shop funtionality.

Now it is fixed in 150% as well. Thanks.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

new version uploaded
TMP Shop Version 01.01.00.10
-(update) custom tile sizes are supported (not only TS 48/24 and RA2 60/30)
-(update) all preview modes (except "Single Frames") show a more detailed info about possible problems (e.g. bad fileformat, wrong filesizes on corrupt TMPs, bad header settings etc)
-(bugfix) the program doesn't crash anymore on corrupt files, where the filesize is smaller than the expected size (e.g. as a result of bad header settings or missing data on the file itself)
-(update) "Single Frames" Preview Mode shows all header values
-(update) "Single Frames" Preview Mode has Quick Edit, which allows to change every header value of a certain tile in the TMP (Warning: be sure to know what you are doing here as this can corrupt a file pretty quick)
-(update) "Ramp Type" Preview Mode with QuickEdit added
-(update) "Edit Tile Header" Option added in main menu. It sets the "Damaged Art" value for all tiles of each file in the group. (*)



(*)
this is highly experimental, since the values in the vanilla TS TMPs make no sense, the way TMP Studio writes them seems half-baked and i haven't found any exact info how the Damage Art value actually works.

For testing purposes the Quick Edit can be used to directly assign any value to the header fields. Though be sure to make a backup and know what you are doing there!
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

new version uploaded
TMP Shop Version 01.01.00.11
-(bugfix) the bit flags "Has Extra Data", "Has Z Data", "Has Damaged Data" and an "Unknown Flag" are now working correct (thanks to E1 Elite for the info)
-(update) in "Single Frames" the Sidemenu shows a new entry in the info label called "BitDataBlock" which is the one that is actually used for the bit flags.
-(bugfix) when switching from Quick Edit "Single Frames" mode to another mode, the input fields weren't removed from the Sidemenu
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HG_SCIPCION
Chem Warrior


Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Perú

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome, you're my new hero LKO, I don't has been used this tool, because my old PC don't works with it...
this is extreme awesome!

Hey, maybe is possible add tmp editor (create new tmp files, add tiles)?

and maybe auto refresh for the files of the folder (re-select folder works too, but...)?

also, maybe a change of zdata?




anyway this tools is the best! thank you Lin Kuei Ominae, this tool is very promissing for RA2/TS (classic sizes) files and very necesary for big tiles (Openra) Although OpenRA use diferent dates for the tiles, this tool is a great help for make terrain in ORA.

Smile
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks Smile

tmp editor is planned but still a lot to do and progress slow due to few spare time.
The plan was to replace completely all the half-assed attempts of tmp editors currently available and have one tool that can do everything.

Auto-refresh: hmm gonna check how that can be done without too much delay, so it doesn't freezes the interface.

change of zdata is a planned feature for the editor, though might add a "quickedit" function before the editor is done.


the tool should work fine with every tilesize, including the much bigger OpenRA tiles (like 96x48 for Rewire). I haven't set any hardcoded restriction to allow only TS (48x24) and RA2 (60x30) tiles.
HG_SCIPCION wrote:
Although OpenRA use diferent dates for the tiles, this tool is a great help for make terrain in ORA.

what do you mean with "different dates for tiles"?
tmp shop should work fine with OpenRA tmp's as well.
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HG_SCIPCION
Chem Warrior


Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Perú

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh sorry, I mean "data" no "dates" (sorry i'm bad with english)

Thanks...
Change of zdata is very important for me now, I'm lost a lot of time changing the zdata with xcc tmp editor (Tomson)

and about OpenrRA:


Don't require TMP data of the file, like height, terrain type and others... all is in the yaml codes. except zdata.
maybe only position of the tiles (I have some problems with this) and zdata of them...




cheers and good luck with the tmp editor Smile WE NEED IT!
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pchote
Grenadier


Joined: 06 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it's worth, OpenRA doesn't require or even use tmp for terrain. Our tmp loader internally converts tmp files to pseudo-shp files by throwing away all the extra attributes, merging the tile and extradata into a single image for each tile, and then creating a second set of "split zdata" frames at the end of the file exactly the same way that split shadows are defined for for units. You can skip the intermediate hassle of the tmp format by rendering tiles directly to shp. The only requirement is that the middle of the cell needs to be at the middle of the image, so if you have a cliff extending off the top then you need to have the same amount of empty space extending off the bottom. ?You can see how this works by loading one of the TS tmp tiles in the asset browser.

Edit: the forum seems to mangle comments and fails with an error if you try to edit a comment after posting it.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While browsing through some TMPs, I noticed that all cliff ramps use the TileType no. 13, which the program does not recognize (it just shows it as "?13?"). I'm not sure if this was one of those unknown TileTypes, but it seems to be used exclusively for the slope part of the cliff ramps. Clear slopes, dirt road slopes, etc. use regular TileTypes like Road or Rough.


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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

13 falls back to clear ground
See this chart to know which ID is used for which terrain type.

I made it show as unknown, since there is already a clear ground and second one made no sense and there was also no other terrain type left. Thus i didn't (and still don't) know if 13 had (has) some extra hardcoded stuff set to make it a different "clear" ground.
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TAK02
Commander


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: It was Damascus.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ummm...

N00b here, but maybe 'cause it's 'sloped clear' that is one level lower..?
Or maybe a clear immune to AutoLAT and FA2's/FS' 'AutoLevel' thing...

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
13 falls back to clear ground
See this chart to know which ID is used for which terrain type.


Thanks, I was looking for that chart.

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
I made it show as unknown, since there is already a clear ground and second one made no sense and there was also no other terrain type left. Thus i didn't (and still don't) know if 13 had (has) some extra hardcoded stuff set to make it a different "clear" ground.


Well, I didn't see it used anywhere else but these cliff ramps, so it might indeed have (or it was intended to have) some special properties.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be provisions made for highway, sideroad (dirtroad) and actual dirt road/path, because you can find 3 ids used on different road tilesets. Whether this was for additoinal logic or for future use further dividing the terrain speedtypes, who knows.

I'd view ramps the same way, "clear", "road" and "dirt"...
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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crimsonum wrote:
Well, I didn't see it used anywhere else but these cliff ramps, so it might indeed have (or it was intended to have) some special properties.

Vanilla TS/RA2 uses clear 13 everywhere (clear*, rmpfx*, in dirtroads/cliff ramps etc. where clear cells are present). RA2 uses it for clat* also. In TI, I have seen clear 0 being used. As it works in TI, that shouldn't be a problem!

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E1 Elite wrote:
Crimsonum wrote:
Well, I didn't see it used anywhere else but these cliff ramps, so it might indeed have (or it was intended to have) some special properties.

Vanilla TS/RA2 uses clear 13 everywhere (clear*, rmpfx*, in dirtroads/cliff ramps etc. where clear cells are present). RA2 uses it for clat* also. In TI, I have seen clear 0 being used. As it works in TI, that shouldn't be a problem!


You caught me, I was looking at TI's TMPs and I assumed tiles like clear, slope fixes etc. still retained the original TileType. Looks like I was mistaken Embarassed

Both 0 and 13 seem to work the same without any issues.
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E1 Elite
Commander


Joined: 28 May 2013

PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though there is a problem with beach tile type in shore tiles in TS. When land units get down on beach cells from low bridge on water or users make map with incorrect shores, these units get stuck in water. Updated your fixing tiberian sun thread. Could do similar conversion of beach tile types to water/rough/clear in TI also if needed.

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Crimsonum
Seth


Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Location: Fineland

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, I haven't noticed such bug before, and I'd rather keep the beach type in some tiles where it's useful (it prevents normal ground vehicles and ships from passing, but allows amphibious vehicles to cross it).
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