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 Forum index » Other Projects » Inactive Projects » RA2: Moscow's vengeance » Allied
Allied Armour
Moderators: Dutchygamer, Lt Albrecht
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Lt Albrecht
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, England. Creating RA2: Moscow's vengeance

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject:   Allied Armour Reply with quote

Allied Armour
Quantity over quality...

In the Great Second World War the Allied nations could not meet the demand for Armour from their own industrial complexes. They Turned to the US, whose large self-sufficient post-depression economy had excess capacity, although the US government was unwilling to (openly) provide crews, they were able to give the Allies reasonably well manufactured tanks at good prices. The designs were lighter and faster than the complex, powerful soviet designs. Allied commanders were encouraged to outnumber and overrun Soviet units. These tactics led to high casualties amongst the armoured corps of the democracy, but not without success. They beat back the superior Red Army with a mixture of sheer numbers and grim determination, in the early days Allied light tanks had been known as Tommy cookers amongst Heavy tank units, by the spring of 1957 it was the Light tanks that were doing the cooking.


A knocked out US supplied medium Tank, M48s were superior to light tanks, but still lacked parity with Russian T56s

By and large light tanks have remained relatively unchanged since those early days, they have been upgraded and modified and even replaced by newer models, but their role on the field and relationship with other units has largely remained similar. Introduction of soviet Rocket-Propelled Grenades means that they are less able to swarm early in the battle, and will need reinforcements to handle tougher targets.

Medium Tank

Not the most popular units in the last conflict, medium tanks were usually tasked with occupying soviet units to buy time, if they were deployed at all. They took heavy losses and by the end of the war were fielded out of necessity, rather than preference. The most prevalent model was the M48 "Patton", it suffered heavily in the war. There were some more useful models, such as the more powerful MBT70, which was used to great effect by the 17th Armoured division in their flank attack on the soviet defences at Warsaw. By and large, however, in the conflict medium tanks suffered badly, they were adequately armoured and had a slight speed advantage over Soviet Tanks, but it wasn't enough to dictate the place of battle and they often fought at a disadvantage.

With superior armament and armour, the medium tank is the core of Allied tank units, armed with a more powerful cannon than the 76mm weapon on the light tank, they are more capable of engaging enemy tank formations. Although inferior to the new model T85s with their twin 100mm smoothbores, the single 90mm gun firing APDS or HEAT ammunition does serious damage to enemy Armoured vehicles and Buildings, a single 13mm MG similar to the APC's is mounted co-axially for use against infantry. However, the complex targeting gear available for the main gun is not compatible with the ballistically different rheinmetall machinegun rounds. This causes the crew to resort to "spray and pray" fire, good at suppressing enemy troops, but not producing a high lethal hit ratio.



Enter the MBT
Seeing their armoured units constantly outmatched, and obliterated one on one, the governments of the west knew they would someday have to square up to the Soviets on equal terms. That day came, and through a combination of brilliant leadership, ample US supplies and dogged determination, the Allies prevailed. The basttle for Moscow was not without cost, however. The seige lasted six weeks and claimed lives that have yet to be fully counted to this day.

Many of these losses were caused by Allied armoured inferiority, this toll in blood was the price paid for inadequate vehicles mounting obsolete and underpowered weapons. This was the calling for the MBT, a more powerful vehickle to suit Allied mobile warfare, a combination fo firepower, armour and mobility never before seen.

The Main Battle Tank is balanced like a fine sword, the apex of western military stratwegy, costing the same as one and a half T85s, able to defeat Heavy tanks one on one and nimble enough to outrun their reingforcements, the MBT is a force to be feared. However, it is not all-poweful, it still pales i comparison to the almighty Mammoths and cannot hope to stand before them, likewise it is defenceless against aerial targets such as soviet hinds.

The MBT is truly Achilles, deadly and agile, but with a vulnerable heel.



Ontos

With an ame that means "The thing" in Greek, the Ontos is justifiably weird, armed with quad recoil-less rifles, the Ontos is designed less to avoid armoured trouble than to encorage it, in a tank-on-tank brawl the Ontos would easily prevail with volleys of AT projectiles that bludgeon ERA aside like it isn't there. This firepower comes at a cost, however. The ontos (like the MBT) requires a fee from commanders to field it to contribute to rear-areas logistics and factories. This sum is payable once a tech center is built and is a one-time-only payment, as long as the center stands...


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Last edited by Lt Albrecht on Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like the Ontos.
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Aro
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're getting really good at this aren't you?
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Dutchygamer
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oi! Stealing ideas from my mod aren't we #Tongue
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Lt Albrecht
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, England. Creating RA2: Moscow's vengeance

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, the ontos is a unique bit of 60s/70s hardware, and nothing similar has been seen before or since, a Red Alert sequel must have an Ontos.
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Deformat
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you ALL are ripping it from MO,aren't ya? #Tongue

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ConMan
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps we could put up the Soviet armor next? #Tongue

I'm very happy to see all of the contributions for MV come together! Very Happy
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Lt Albrecht
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, England. Creating RA2: Moscow's vengeance

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roaches, me and Conman. All that's missing is an Orac voxel and this'd be all of us #Tongue
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Aro
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew it looked familiar!



The old cougar medium tank from Evolution, I had completely forgotten about it.
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Lt Albrecht
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, England. Creating RA2: Moscow's vengeance

PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, after evolution fell apart roacghes gave it to me to see if I could find a use for it IIRC. #Tongue
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EVA-251
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the voxels shown here quite a bit. Although I feel the Medium Tank and MBT look way too similar, all of them are very nice in appearance.

As for Ontos- As Albrecht said, it is probably the wackiest thing to come out of the Cold War next to Obyekt-279...
Its just too good of an opportunity to pass up.
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ConMan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not very happy with the wheels of the Ontos however Confused
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Orac
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Joined: 11 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lt Albrecht wrote:
Roaches, me and Conman. All that's missing is an Orac voxel and this'd be all of us #Tongue

As you know, RA2 armour models* are not my strong point. Though I might be able to handle a light tank - which make and what size?



*_Cough_ unlike my favourite little lcrf _Cough_

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Destiny
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ontos's barrels look a tad funny though #Tongue
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Orac
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it also doesn't have the 5th and 6th barrels, from what I can see.
EDIT: Actually, each time I look at the Ontos I think it needs more and more of a complete redo. Sorry. Confused

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inzane krazy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahhh, that's one wall of text I actually read through XD
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Lt Albrecht
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, England. Creating RA2: Moscow's vengeance

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ripping it from MO

What's MO? Oh.. Wait... Mental thingy? One Javier nicked the stuff from?

Can't say I've actually played it #Tongue
It has an Ontos?
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Deformat
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has something similar #Tongue

Aeroblaze,IIRC..

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Lt Albrecht
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, that voxel... It's been used as an MLRS, an AA laser tank and all sorts. but I've never seen an ontos before, the Ontos is a tank destroyer and not the gayest country special ever given to Britain in a game.
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Deformat
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what the heck did you wanted for your beloved wife,I mean,nation? #Tongue

EDIT:Also,don't be racist.

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partyzanPaulZy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, Ontos was also an inspiration for the Atreides Minotaur Mech.

The question is, will Ontos have long range?




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Mikeboy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deformat wrote:
And what the heck did you wanted for your beloved wife,I mean,nation? #Tongue

EDIT:Also,don't be racist.


YR Devestation had the Nimintz class carrier as America's special, admittedly it was next to useless and they barely changed the model from the regular aircraft carrier however it'd be a good thing to try and get in MV.

By the way, this is quite possibly my favourite mod on PPM.

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Lt Albrecht
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

=D One problem. The US is 'neutral', they don't get involved directly in the war but are basically the armourers of the Alliance. I am planning to have country specials, not just the old and overdone special units, but bonuses to cost and firepower, veterancy for certain units for different countries, etc etc.

The Ontos will have longer range than most tanks(and high firepower), although it'll be lightly armoured and have a mediocre DamagePerSecond.
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Mikeboy
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Joined: 11 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lt Albrecht wrote:
=D One problem. The US is 'neutral', they don't get involved directly in the war but are basically the armourers of the Alliance. I am planning to have country specials, not just the old and overdone special units, but bonuses to cost and firepower, veterancy for certain units for different countries, etc etc.

The Ontos will have longer range than most tanks(and high firepower), although it'll be lightly armoured and have a mediocre DamagePerSecond.


This might help you then.

Allied Factions

Great Britain
Special Units: Sniper
Units created at Veteran Level: Sniper
British infantry, vehicles, structures, and defensive buildings have an armor bonus increase:
Vehicles: 29%
Infantry: 39%
Buildings: 40%
Defenses: 38%

France
Special Building/Unit: Grand Cannon, Grand Artillery
French infantry, vehicles, and defensive buildings have a 20% increase in ROF.

Grand Artillery
Cost: $1500
Armor: light
Prerequisite: Allied Research Lab
Weapon: 155mm Cannon
Range: as long as the V3 Launcher
The French army specializes in long-range siege weapons. To supplement their defensive capabilities, the French have developed the Grand Artillery to counter the Soviet’s V3 Launcher and newly acquired Siege Chopper. Although ineffective against armored vehicles, the Grand Artillery can deliver a powerful punch to a base at a safe distance. However, since it has an effective minimum range and requires protection.

Germany
Special Unit: Tank Destroyer
German infantry, vehicles, and defensive buildings do 25% more damage to enemy targets.

United States of America
Special ability/unit: Paradrop of Veteran GIs, Aircraft Carrier Nimitz
American infantry have 25% more hitpoints.

Aircraft Carrier Nimitz
Cost: $2500
Armor: heavy
Prerequisite: Allied Research Lab
Weapon: a trio of ORCAs
Range: extreme
Voice Announcement: “Pride of the Allied Navy!”
The Americans have a special version of the standard Allied Aircraft Carrier. Instead of 3 Hornets, the Nimitz launches 3 ORCA attack aircraft. These sleek, futuristic aircraft are more durable than a Hornet, more powerful than a Harrier, and faster than a Black Eagle.

Korean Alliance
Special units: Black Eagle, Chrono Tank
Koreans can build infantry at a 25% faster rate.

Chrono Tank
Cost: $2000
Armor: light
Prerequisite: Allied Research Lab
Weapon: Chrono vortex
Range: medium
Voice Announcement: “Without a trace!”
A top-secret project borrowed from the Germans, the Chrono Tank can teleport anywhere on their own. The ultimate hit-and-run unit, it is able to fully control the time-space continuum and unleash a deadly Chrono Vortex on an unsuspecting target. However, the stability of the tank cannot be overestimated.

Soviet Factions

Russia
Special unit: Tesla Tank
Russian infantry, structures, and defensive buildings are 10% cheaper. Russian vehicles are 5% cheaper.

Cuba
Special unit/ability: Terrorist/Terrorist Attack Paradrop
Cuban structures, defensive buildings, and infantry build 30% to 35% faster.

Terrorist Attack Special
Prerequisite: Soviet Radar Tower
This Cuban special consists of a paradrop of 12 Terrorists and 6 Crazy Ivans. If not shot down, the Terrorists can take out a large portion of a base and Crazy Ivans can plant bombs after the initial attack.

Libya
Special units: Demolition Truck, MiG
Libyans make 20% more income from Ore.

MiG
Cost: $1200
Armor: light
Prerequisite: Airfield
Weapon: Dual laser-guided missiles
Range: shorter than a Harrier’s
Libya is the only faction that can construct these fast, sleek, and powerful aircraft. Though it cannot take as much punishment as a Harrier, it is faster and even more destructive than the Korean Black Eagle. One MiG can take out one Grizzly Tank if both missiles impact.

Iraq
Special units: Desolator, Cobra
Units created at Veteran level: Desolator
Iraqi ground infantry and vehicles are 27% to 31% faster

Cobra
Cost: $700
Armor: light
Prerequisite: Naval Yard, Radar Tower
Weapon: Dual Rad-Cannons
Range: slightly shorter than a Prism Tank’s
Taking their powerful Desolator technology to the seas, the Cobra ship’s main purpose is to self-destruct and release its Rad-cargo and irradiate a large patch of sea for some time. Although it can hover, it can only self-destruct while on the water.

All this and yet Britain still ends up with a pathetic little sniper as it's special unit. Mad

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Lt Albrecht
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, England. Creating RA2: Moscow's vengeance

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. That sucks #Tongue

I love MV's howitzer though, it's epic. The damage isn't as good as it could be, hte armour is a bit thin and the fire rate is mediocre. It's aving grace is the range. The range is brilliant #Tongue

I should really get you guys out a unit list with some pics some time, it's too hot to do much over here ATM #Tongue

I also need to decide on a country list and other such important things.
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DaFool
Defense Minister


Joined: 07 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm, the map is pretty much free to draw, as most countries got steamrolled by the ruskies. England is alive and so is the USSR, but everything inbetween got wrecked.
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Lt Albrecht
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, England. Creating RA2: Moscow's vengeance

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, so the line between East and west falls where I want. I'm tempted to drop it more to the west this time though, maybe an Allied Poland? I'm quite open, just so long as the core of the Allies (UK, Germany, France, Italy & Spain) are still in.

The UK never dies, it just retreats to mediocrity and regroups...
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DaFool
Defense Minister


Joined: 07 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Italy and Spain are core allies? I thought they leaned more the other way, I remember reading about communists in Italy and theres Fransisco in Spain (since the Generalissimo is there, why not have him allied with the soviets? They seem to represent dictatorships and Nationalism more than actual communist ideals).

Spain, Italy, Greece, France, Germany, Poland, Austria, The balkan, UK, Scandinavian, USSR...
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Mikeboy
Medic


Joined: 11 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the story? I couldn't find a story thread. (Probably because I'm an idiot).

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partyzanPaulZy
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Joined: 03 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Czechoslovakia was also important country (and pretty mountainous - guerilla, not like Austria or Switzerland, but still) with big industry (- arm producer before WWII and during that (under Nazi Germany): light tank LT-38, the Turtle 2 armored car with two machineguns on each side, some planes).

So maybe you can add it if you want someone in the middle, maybe to USSR countries or to Allied countries (because many mods have Poland as Allied + Poland is mostly lowland and they had really weak army before WWII), realworld preWWII Czechoslovakia had also mountainious Carpathian Ruthenia.

Otherwise I would add some Scandinavian country (or Scandinavia - like they had some special project together and similar special skills),
Spain or Portugal (if Spain was neutral), Greece (although they had military dictatorship in 1950's), France, Britain, Germany.
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Lt Albrecht
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, England. Creating RA2: Moscow's vengeance

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the real world the nationalists won in Spain and Italy, with the Reds knocking on their front door I think the Allies would've found a convenient way to make that happen. What about the Empire/commonwealth? I personally think it'd be good for a country side, probably an infantry based country/subfaction, possibly with some downside to their armoured vehcles.

What the Allies need is really a country with manpower, the equipment (either US built or made in rebuilt European factories) is no problem, it's the soldiers to use it that are limited.
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Mikeboy
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Joined: 11 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lt Albrecht wrote:
In the real world the nationalists won in Spain and Italy, with the Reds knocking on their front door I think the Allies would've found a convenient way to make that happen. What about the Empire/commonwealth? I personally think it'd be good for a country side, probably an infantry based country/subfaction, possibly with some downside to their armoured vehcles.

What the Allies need is really a country with manpower, the equipment (either US built or made in rebuilt European factories) is no problem, it's the soldiers to use it that are limited.


How about the countrys of South America, story wise the Allies could have signed a treaty agreeing to strike South American debts to the west if they joined them in the war.

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partyzanPaulZy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commonwealth would be good (I understood that Empire died because people in colonies wanted more freedom), the manpower and tech level of the Commonwealth would be pretty great (that's one of few reasons why my mod is going to have the Commonwealth instead of the UK).

Germany is rich country with big population, same France.
Germans were important "obstacle" in the way of Stalin through Europe,
French had many colonies (which are similar to Commonwealth now, so it can be in alternative history).

Spain or Portugal has also good connections with their former colonies (mostly Latin America).
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Lt Albrecht
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, England. Creating RA2: Moscow's vengeance

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russia has a strong powerbase and it's closely focused in the Eurasian area, the Allies have a moderate powerbase in western europe, but can draw manpower and support from all over the world, from Canada, possibly India, Africa, S. America etc.

Quote:
Empire died because people in colonies wanted more freedom

They discovered British people disliked the smell of spilled blood, no matter whose it was. We lost our taste for empire and hurriedly left the colonies, many of them with poor government and local conflict. It's like as soon as we left they snapped back to how they were before we arrived, just like happened to us when the romans left...
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Kamuix
Grenadier


Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the first tank shown in the first post but the second one needs something, more abstract color and maybe a good sharpen

The grey tank shown post down I like aswell, nice and sharp

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Orac
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Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This project has been dead for a long while, Kamuix.

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PillBox20
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Joined: 28 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He really likes to revive old stuff.  Smile
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Dutchygamer
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, it's been 5 years already? Damn. It was my first (and last) attempt at terrain #Tongue
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Aro
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Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dutchygamer wrote:
Wow, it's been 5 years already? Damn. It was my first (and last) attempt at terrain #Tongue


Yeah, that grass in the image I posted back in June 2009 was my first real attempt at terrain too. Good God.
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