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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum
Small Voxels Competition.
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gistop
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Joined: 19 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:13 pm    Post subject:  Small Voxels Competition.
Subject description: Just a Competition of sorts
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So this is a competition idea I've had for a while, and it seems to be something that you can do fairly quickly. This is the
THE SMALL VOXEL COMPETITION

The point of this is to make small (and I mean small) voxels.
These are the rules

Rules:
1. You must make your voxel at least 20x20x20 pixels.
2. All voxels May 26th (A month after this post)
3. You may submit more than one voxel, but only your final voxel will be counted in.
4.Your voxels must have a download link
5.Your voxels must have Full HVAs
6.You are allowed a turret, however, the turret must be within the bounds of the 20x20x20

Important:If anybody would like to help with the analyzation and critiquing of the please PM me and I would be glad to have your help.

Hope the competition goes well! Good luck to you all.

Last edited by gistop on Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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ViPr
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody is going to be interested in entering a voxel making competition unless all restrictions are removed and prizes are offered.

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gistop
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voxelgeddon didn't have any prizes... so why not this? it will literally take about 30 minutees to create a 20x20x20 voxel (with a possible 10x10x5 turret).
I don't see any prizes needed to be given out for such an event

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Graion Dilach
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I demand good jury assembled from veterans.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

20x20x20 limits it a lot. What do you expect as results? Even a Nod bike in TS is bigger than that, and this is RA2 with many VXL reaching the 255 limit and still looking not utterly huge (e.g. ships).
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Zero18
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too small. No good voxels from me.
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gistop
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this is what I did with 20x20x20... I think it looks fine.

In-game:

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You expect us to make Drones?
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gistop
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES
DRONES FTW
Also, this drone was normalized using auto-normals 7.1 with smoothmy normals, smoothing level 14, and contrast 2

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4StarGeneral
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offense but that tiny drone looks like something that regular tanks crap out. Too small, pretty much only able to make projectiles.

Also, no people barely enter even with prizes, and you have no prizes.
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Hassan_2030
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the the length should be doubled for better results!!!
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gistop
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No,  this competition is deliberately made to challenge, and actually improve people's micro elements of voxels.

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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can do tiny voxels just fine. Hell I've made plenty of "Chibi" Units I've made a Voxel Version of the Terror Drone (At the moment I'm just too lazy to properly rig its HVA which also btw needs to be bigger than 20x20x20)

20x20x20 Dimensions severely hampers your details. We've noticed you can just transform a Voxel Section anyway if its too big if you wanna adjust its scale.

All your gonna have available at most are tiny robots that would be the same size as RA2's Vanilla Infantry.
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Team Black
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand the idea of Limited Palette artwork, and it's good for many things but this isn't really one of those things, in my opinion.
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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only time I make voxels that small are for weapon projectiles...
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PillBox20
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can it have animated HVA? Maybe I can try making mini-chopper.  Very Happy
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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Rotor Blades alone means you can't make it a chopper.
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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that you mention it I made a QH-50 helicopter for D-day's Gearing class destroyer. It's 20x18x13 so it's possible #Tongue but it's a drone so its meant to be that small.


qh50 + prop_000.gif
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Zero18
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, just had a look at my repair drone, the smallest unit ever in my mod is 23x18x23.
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Team Black
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monster truck tire!
7x15x15
Download


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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol that works too
Now create a monster truck
-shaft
-mudguard
-hood
-windshield
-antenna
...
then the parts can be combined to create a complete monster truck Smile
The first voxel created out of many small parts.
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Last edited by Lin Kuei Ominae on Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Team Black
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol no #Tongue

This was debris for my first voxel, the ol' Monster truck.
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PillBox20
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here is my voxel. I kind of had fun making it.  Smile

I called it "Radio Bot".

Just one problem with it, the bounds of the turret are 7x7x7


RB_001.gif
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Last edited by PillBox20 on Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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gistop
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

meh, so long as it's within the 20x20x20 area, also, additional notes: I like this voxel. alot. have you tested it in-game?

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gistop
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There you go, I edited the rules to make everybody happier. If we were to restart this would there be any takers?

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Lin Kuei Ominae
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO 20x20x20 is too small and the results will mostly look the same. Tiny drones which are hard to see ingame and rarely anyone has a use for.

Why not something useful like: Restrict to one ingame cell. The unit is not allowed to go beyond an ingame cell. The 4 main facings (direction / and \ ) are tested if the unit is inside the cell border.

Then you leave a lot more freedom to the voxeler. e.g. some can use big voxel with small bounds if they want.
And you also make sure the result will fit in many mods and be useful for many modders.
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gistop
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Idea LKO, does anybody else agree that that should be a thing?
EDIT: I mean, maybe we could start an entirely new competition (WITH NO PRIZES, JUST SOME FRIENDLY COMPETITION) where we would just make those voxels, no height limit?

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OmegaBolt
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why you would have any size restrictions honestly. Bigger voxels would be more useful for the community as then you can resize them to whatever you want.
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OrangeNero
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:

Why not something useful like


this is about voxels, not about it being useful. it could be used for anything!
(sarcasm)
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gistop
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here, why doesn't everybody just take like 20 minutes out of their day to create a tiny voxel, and see how much fun you have, because you end up making this thing that ends up with you thinking "AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW THAT'S SO FRICKIN CUTE"

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Team Black
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I think I see gistop's point. It's not to make something necessarily good or useful, it's for the lulz
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Atomic_Noodles
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I make something I don't just make it for the lulz. I make sure I can at least make use of it for my Mod.
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ViPr
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If these games had better voxel rendering systems then maybe it would be more tolerable to have such small voxels but right now, in the game, they just look like a mass of garbled noise.

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PillBox20
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ViPr wrote:
If these games had better voxel rendering systems then maybe it would be more tolerable to have such small voxels but right now, in the game, they just look like a mass of garbled noise.


I agree! Right now my Radio Bot looks like moving box with antennas ingame.

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
When I make something I don't just make it for the lulz. I make sure I can at least make use of it for my Mod.


Right, I also like to make things useful. I made this voxel because I've never made voxels my self. I am currently working on remaking the German Tank Destroyer and it is going slow. Making a 20x20x20 voxel was just to refresh my self..... besides this is motivating me to try harder next time.

The idea of bigger voxels for the competition is good, but I have to ask:
How big is one cell in voxels?
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PillBox20 wrote:
How big is one cell in voxels?

Not possible to say. A cell is 60x30 pixel but a voxel can use the Bounds to raise/reduce distance between voxel and thus render smaller or bigger.
A 100x100x100 Voxel with 0.0001 Bounds would surely fit, while a 10x10x10 Voxel with 100 Bounds would be too big.

That's why using a cell as a size restriction offers more voxeling freedom than a fixed voxel dimension limit.
And a cell isn't that big, so it would still fit to a "Small Voxels Competition".
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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A cell is 50x50 & I think 25 height, never checked that tho.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See attachment...


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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the size of an 2D isometric cell not a 3D voxel cell.

Edit: Seams my memory was wrong as I double checked & a voxel 1 cell big is 43x43x18.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A "voxel cell"? What is that?
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Mig Eater
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A group of voxels that equal 1 cell ingame... Which is 43x43x18.
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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't be correct. At least not with a fixed Bounds value, that you haven't given.
Because as i wrote earlier, the ingame rendered size of a voxel depends on the bounds you have set.

e.g. if 43x43x18 with Bounds=1 might be one cell, but then is also 86x86x36 with Bounds=0.5. So you can't really say, these dimension are one cell without giving a Bounds value too.

btw, wasn't the Header/Transformation Matrix and the Misc/Scales also changing the way a voxel is rendered? So there would be more factors counting when setting the ingame size of a voxel.
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Orac
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I'm pretty sure it's correct.  My 1 cell test voxel is 44x44, but that's because of my OCD when it comes to numbers.  43 is probably right considering how voxels are transformed into pixels by the engine.

We usually assume that the bounds = 1 when talking about a voxel's dimensions ingame unless bounds affect those dimensions.  It's not important to specify otherwise.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought most Voxeler have and use their own Bounds which they think looks best.
e.g. in the past on my few Voxel i always used Bounds that are about 75% of actual size to get smaller details done, remove black hole syndrom and make the texture smoother by letting the voxel slightly overlap each other.
I've also seen many Voxel using even smaller bounds, e.g. when the voxeler noticed in the end the voxel turned out too big ingame.

So a 1:1 Bounds is not the default for all released voxel and not the default used by every Voxeler.

So we can only say, that 43x43 with 1:1 Bounds is a cell, but there are limitless other settings which would come to the same size ingame. Like 86x86 with 2:1 Bounds.
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ViPr
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't make the texture look smoother; it makes it more messy because some interspersed detail completely disappears due to being overlapped. The only benefit I see is to easily close gappage.

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Mebius
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it too small

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