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BEWARE! A HUGE WAVE OF RIPPERS IS APPROACHING!
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kenosis
Commander


Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:24 am    Post subject:  BEWARE! A HUGE WAVE OF RIPPERS IS APPROACHING!
Subject description: warning to all rule-respecting zero hour modders
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Beware, respected zero hour modders.

Recently a "tool" was released among the chinese. A 'mod ripper' based on contra team's ini checker.

As its screenshots show, it can auto rip with just a simple click everything related to the target: ini, including weapons, particle systems, armors, etc; textures and models, and may also be able to auto placed ripped materials into the right folders and inis.

the source is there
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3200682052
some instructions

if anyone in your team knows chinese, let him tell you how this tool works.

and there

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3225051414
link corrected

the second link gives a download, for the free trial. Full version costs about 5 big macs from McDonald.

Our noobs are already planning "I will use this great tool to mix ooo and xxx mod together"  "I will put all assets from all mods together as a database so everyone can use them"

What an international scandal.

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Last edited by kenosis on Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:52 am; edited 2 times in total

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread


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kenosis
Commander


Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A typical way for Chinese ZH modders to credit is "this unit is taken from SW","this unit is taken from Contra", and then praise himself for being so lawful and that he respect authors so much, ignoring that he totally has no premission to take anything from these mods.
This should be made clear. I suspect something should be written specially for these "lawful" rippers, in Chinese, which they can read.


A  member of our community has cracked it. If any ZH modder is interested I can pm you

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The_Hunter
Medic


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Honestly tho if people wanted to rip stuff from bigger modes like ShockWave, Contra ect. they can do so without the tool with relative ease.

This is not to say that i approve of this sort of practice however specialy that database thing you mentioned just sounds awefully disrespectful to the original content creators.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This asset theft thing is a debate and problem throughout the entire CNC modding community, most of us disapprove of such practice and condemn asset theft (if they're redistributed in any way or form). Measures have been taken to prevent this, but more people just come along with counter-measures. Apparently it is considered "selfish" if we modders wish to keep our assets exclusive to our own mods...

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This sheds a quite bad light on the chinese modding community. For me as an outsider it looks like they can't do something on their own, hide behind the language barrier and thus think they can do what they want.
Sorry if i offended anyone with this "stereotype".
There are surely many respectable chinese modder, but this is just the impression that i get from the several rather negative news about the chinese community.

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The_Hunter
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aro wrote:
Apparently it is considered "selfish" if we modders wish to keep our assets exclusive to our own mods...


And you can bet those are all people who say this never went through the blood,sweat and tears to learn how to make 3d models and textures themselfs and have no clue on how much time is invested in such a thing Neutral

Personaly i would like if there was an option to simply encrypt big files in the same was as mix files but to my knowledge such a thing does not exist.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While I understand why game developers have a huge problem with that I still don't get why its such a big issue for modders. Some sort of pride huh. Correct me if I'm wrong but what sort of damage does it do when some "noobs" in china assemble some mod that no one outside of china is interested in and no one ever heard of and that is of questionable quality?

You could choose to be flattered by this. I'm sure Forest Gump would be if he ever modded C&C. Oh and no wories everyone still holds the right to brag about how much work it was to learn and create something. If some chinese wants to brag about how much work it was to rip something... who actually cares?

I'm not entirely sure if all C&C devs are happy with their games being modded. They probably keep their mouth shut so to not create another outrage.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hunter, Yes, that is exactly the reason. Anybody who has created their own assets from scratch would understand and have enough respect for others to not go through the ripping procedures. Some people use the term "hypocrisy" against us because we mod games in the first place, but that's laughable because the game developers were paid to crrate assets with ease where-as we create and distribute things free. It's just outright disrespectful.

The MIX encryption is a good way to prevent theft, but the issue is that there are a lot of programs floating around to reverse it. I'm sure if something was also applied for the BIG files the same thing would happen. But hey, we both run mods that are pretty popular so if our assets are used elsewhere, it won't be long until someone brings it up to us.

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OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aro wrote:
it won't be long until someone brings it up to us.

And then? You're gonna call the League of Justice or sue him or what? Ban & shun him? Western ethic vs chinese thinking.

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OrangeNero wrote:
...
But game devs are at least paid for their work. It's their job which happens to be in a creative entertainment industry that allows millions of people to enjoy it in different ways. A few modders who spend years of their free time trying to build a up new personal experience is very different... and when some fool with no talent comes along and tears it to pieces it's an insult.

When someone uses an asset from a game they must have likely bought it and appreciated it first before using the asset. When someone comes along and rips from a mod they just see images on ModDB and want that singular asset. Also RA2 mods are tributes to RA2, tring to further enjoy the original game... someone who takes another mods asset without even asking (despite the community being so small) isn't often a tribute to that mod but rather they just want the asset for themselves, to serve their own purpose.

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kenosis
Commander


Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I suggest the second time: something should be written only in chinese for them.

Typical ripper logic: I took your assets so more players can see them. I did this only for the players, without them you are shit, why you so care about someone else using your model it doesnt cost you a cent blablabla

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nero, you speak well truly like somebody whom has never created a decent quality asset in his life which explains your outlook on asset theft pretty clearly. Ignoring your sarcastic and idiotic remarks, there isn't much you can do about asset theft, but I st least like to know if our asdets are being ripped to shreds somewhere so at the least I can say something.

Anybody remember the Red Alert Millennium drama? Now everything that guy does is driven instantly into the ground because his name (and persona) is known.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes. devs make games because of money we do it because its our hobby. I'm just saying that one can choose to see it as a tribute when people around the globe think your work is so cool & awesome that they go out of their ways to get it. Devs have to earn money in order to pay their rent and thats why they make games. We do it out of fun and well in some cases because some want to feel great.

Its much like with native american indians. You can claim that its your land but thats not what counts. Guns and Laws. Your copy right and artistic integrity is only worth as much as you can defend it and as much as it counts for you and others.

Since you don't make money with modding there's really no harm done to it. Your mod ain't less fun because someone else rips stuff from it. Your mod ain't less glorious in fact its even more glorious. Oh and meh I doubt that seeing an asset in some crappy ripper mod is gonne shed a bad light on the original mod.

It really just comes down to people not wanting to share their work while having to share it in order to be used.

@Aro. You find all my stuff to be trash and ok well yea its not up to the fidelity that others have. Mind you I'm in modding since 2 years you're in since at least 6 I guess? I actually find it nice if someone else is having fun with something I created. I don't get off on my work and want to preserve it. Your not making money with your work. You're not in the industry and you should be glad that you ain't because its harsh there. You guys are thinking proprietary because of a form of pride and that could strike back one day on you. At some point for example TI could be considered as a game and at that point someone could feel like modding it and it would be just as ok as it was for you to mod TS.

ofc you're free to do and think how you like to and can. but in the end modding is what somebody can do and wants to do. Just saying you have the choice to see it as a form of tribute. Good luck with enforcing your copy rights.

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kenosis
Commander


Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's why when someday I may write "DONT YOU TOUCH MY ASSETS YOU IDIOT OrangeNero" in mod readme file. Let me see how you would react to this. I cannot stop rippers from ripping, also rippers cannot stop me from writing such lines in my mod.

If I say "I dont want anyone else to have my assets", would some guys respect my will? Come on. Be more civilized and educated. I surly have such right to make that statement. You may bark at me but have your dirty hands on my assets is another thing.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I didn't say your work was trash, those are your own words, but publishing cameos that are resizes of somebody elses renders can hardly be considered your own work if were going to go into that.

In response to the rest of your comments, re-read what I said above. I don't care if someone uses our assets in private mods, I do care if someone redistributes them and worse, takes credit. Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

Last edited by Aro on Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As said you can state whatever you want in your files but the right is only worth as much as you can defend it. I'm not barking at you but I get that this is a sensitive subject for many as it matters a lot to some peoples pride.

Consider this. At the moment your mods are all seen as an honor and tribute to the original game. But it could also be seen as tainting it. It lies completely in the eye of the observer, the perspective. If any mod was to be successfull and even more successfull than the next C&C well then EA might have to consider shutting that mod down. Our mods exist because others let us work on top of their work and because they let us exist. Our hobby mods made out of fun for fun are competing with the real games made for cash in order to pay the rent. It just happens to be that our mods were insignificant so far and that EA fears shutting them down because the C&C community would not be happy. At least thats how I see it.

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kenosis
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm it sounds like if  i got a gun and you dont then your right to survive is just shit because you cannot defend it. great idea.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kenosis wrote:
hmm it sounds like if  i got a gun and you dont then your right to survive is just shit because you cannot defend it. great idea.


Thats how it looks like atm in half of the world.

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kenosis
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wish you live in that robbery world forever, thanks for participating.

@Aro
He never grasps anything. You cannot really stop others taking credit from your work so you dont have the right or meaning arguing about fuсking credit. HIS LOGIC.

So what if we directly insult him? by HIS LOGIC he cannot stop us from it so he should not complain.Yep. He cannot defend himself from it, so his right not to be insulted by F words is just shit.

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Last edited by kenosis on Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:21 pm; edited 7 times in total

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OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Have you seen the movie Jay & Silent Bob? They travel accross the country to beat up little children for insulting them and beat up hollywood for stealing their ip.
Found it ^_^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsXKAtpLm4I

Erm no thats not my point. I'm saying that you have the right but that right is only as strong and worth as much as you can defend it. Oh you can insult me as much as you like but yea thats kinda tainting ppm isn't it.

lol look this is a forum and a forum sometimes has rules and these rules are worth as much as the moderation and admins enforce them. In order to not get isulted by you I could report you and then its up to the moderator to take action. Same is it in the real world. If someone hurts you, you call the police and then bring him to court. But just sitting there and shouting " its my right not to get robbed" ain't gonna help you.

Really why do I have to explain that to you? this is like common sense basic education.

Last edited by OrangeNero on Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

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The_Hunter
Medic


Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OrangeNero,
I realy couldn't care any less if someone starts using assets from any of the projects i lead.
You can't prevent that sort of thing anyway but the this becomes very disrespectful thing to do if you simply redistributing the work without a clear mention of its original creator and thus essentialy claim it to be your own.

This thankfully doesn't happen very often and last time i could remember the profiles and moddb pages of the ripper were shutdown within less than 24 hours.

Rise of the Reds has recently however seen a possitive development that people are basicly madding addons/mods to be used ontop the actual mod which is alot closer to what everone else in the modding part of this communities does.

This is something i fully support and find genuinly awesome Cool

Example here a bunch of fans making their own campeign missions:
http://forums.swr-productions.com/index.php?showtopic=6455

And here one on that very same chinese forum where someone made his own new defense structure:
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3217527778

I should also add to that last one that that i actualy spoke to the guy who made that structure because i was interested in actualy using it in some shape or form that he had never released any of his own assets because he used parts of our own made textures to create his assets.

Soo you can see that now all of the chinese modders are like that and this is the example that every modder should go by.
Its not about beeing right or wrong its about beeing respectful simple as that.

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kenosis
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

He talks not about respect, human right or anything. It is just "Who has no way to defend his right has no right". I bet his parents didnt educate him much about being polite but just let him fight other jerks in the street.

The mod ripper dev says it can surely rip ROTR. He tested it.

Maybe I will try to get the way of BIG protection somehow. Only this way we can really keep rippers off.

And I still wonder why. If anyone barks as if ripping is OK there will soon be a ban. This way I kept the Chinese YR community clean.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Exactly its about being respectful but that only works as long as both keep being respectful. If you want to force someone to stop doing something then its not about rights but about your capabilities to force him to stop.
You chose to ask him nicely and it worked. Maybe it will work again.

One day maybe a developer will see your mod as hurting his product so he'll ask you nicely to stop or maybe he'll force you to stop.
As long as both apply to the ethics its about being respectful towards each other. Once someone stops being respectful its about your capabilities.

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Last edited by OrangeNero on Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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RatsInTheWalls
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Location: Where the fields are green

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What The_Hunter  said.

Ripping stuff doesn't support the community in any way. It just leeches creativity and leads to less models, mods, particle tricks, coding tricks, voxels, SHPs, etc.

Everything becomes the same blobby mess where everyone is just using the same ripped recycled models from mods from ages past.

Also OrangeNero, screw your idiotic contrarianism-for-controversies sake.
"Gee, isn't air great to breathe?"
"Screw air! I'm holding my breath from this moment! Air sucks! Also, you're dumb for breathing air!"

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kenosis
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, he say we should politely ask rippers to stop ripping.

ROFL

Why he never thinks rippers, oh no, people not talented enough, should politely ask for permission first? If you ask for it, it is often possible to got it. If you rip. You become asset thief.

And he speaks always for rippers. Judge from this he IS an idiot.

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Last edited by kenosis on Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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OrangeNero
Commander


Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow lack of education and reading comprehension much? How about you first try to actually understand what someone is saying and first look up the stuff you talk about before replying?

I don't say that you don't have a right if you can't defend it I say that your right have got no power if you can't.

I don't say that you should ask rippers politely I say that its one of your options.

I don't support asset ripping but I tell you that there's not much you can do against it and that out of the same reasons that you want to shut down their doing someone else might someday shut down what you do.

I told you that its your choice to see it as something bad. You could also be flattered and don't give a damn. You could still pay your rent sicne you don't live from modding whereas a developer lives from making games.

I bet you'd be surprised to find out that human Rights are actually principles. Go look it up. If you live in the US go look up guantanamo and why the USA build their camp over there because your rights aren't worth a damn in cuba.

Last edited by OrangeNero on Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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The_Hunter
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Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OrangeNero wrote:
One day maybe a developer will see your mod as hurting his product.


to my Knowledge this has never happend and likely never will because it still requires people to get the original game first and its pretty obvious that all the assets in there were made by a proffesional company so nobody can or will claim these as their own.

In the unlikely cases that they do the websites where this content is published face a cease and desist order which nobody in the right mind wants to risk unless its in a country which has no regards for copyright laws.

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kenosis
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so what. Can't you just stop acting like a ripping supporting idiot and respect the asset creators?

What's the meaning of barking"your right have got no power if you can't. " at creators ? Is it so fun? What do you want to prove? So you call this "RESPECT"?


Quote:

OrangeNero, screw your idiotic contrarianism-for-controversies sake.
"Gee, isn't air great to breathe?"
"Screw air! I'm holding my breath from this moment! Air sucks! Also, you're dumb for breathing air!"

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Last edited by kenosis on Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh just wait till there are more people playing the mod than people playing the next C&C. Gaming these days is all about keeping the multiplayer of the recent game alive. just because someone explains you how stuff in the world works doesn't mean that he agrees with it. hey I don't wanna starve to death if I have no food but its gonna happen like it or not. Don't kill the messenger bro.

So it comes down to: ripping from a game is ok because its an act of honor and you payed and enjoyed the game but ripping from a mod is bad because ztype you respect my authoritah.
Yea I can agree on that. no prob.

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kenosis
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Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I didnt fuсking say that. You agree with yourself moron.

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OrangeNero
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Joined: 11 Jan 2012

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No worries bro despite you not respecting me I'll still respect your artistic integrity and not rip from you. But wandering around with that attitude is not gonna get other people to respect you.

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pd
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Joined: 19 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't get all the buzz about ripping. If your stuff is worth ripping for others, you should feel honored. As long as they don't claim it's their work and even give credit in some way, where's the problem?

For some funny reason, while C&C modders seem to get uber-pissed about other mods using or modifying their assets or mixing them with other mods (without "permission"), the same issue is not an issue at all in the UT2004 world. Modders don't care or even congratulate for the idea. I do that myself with spin-offs of my RPG mod, which by itself is a spin-off of a spin-off... (no joke)

What are you C&C people so pissed about? You don't get all of the fame? You are claiming patent for your work? Stuff like that is what's wrong with this world.

Stop whining and see it as a compliment. After all, I'm pretty sure nobody in China would ever see your stuff if it wasn't for those rippers.

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kenosis
Commander


Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dont speak for China. It is just stupid when you cannot read a single chinese word.

The fact is when YOUR asset is used by ripper mods it certainly becomes "creation of that mod".
So when YOU want to spread your own mod, it turns out that YOU are the ripper.

Secondly. Good ZH mod dev news are translated and published by volunteers.

So you want such popularity? Why you need rippers when later your works naturally become theirs and there are your fans promoting your mod already?

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pd
Laser Commando


Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Location: Gone

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is exactly the kind of "fame paranoia" that I was talking about. No sense in arguing with that, really. I delivered my message, I'm done here.

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Aro
Alcohol Fueled


Joined: 10 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure you were "whining" when somebody redistributed something you made without permission. "Dropshit" was it? Confused

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kenosis
Commander


Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah. You are PD and you are never attacked by tons of idiots shouting at you "rip MO". I'm tired of it. So I say you must at least let the audience see your mod first so that you don't become the ripper later. I speak of the situation in China and I feel as if pd is more Chinese than me.

Fame? Screw fame. I just don't want that kind of attack from idiots.

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Last edited by kenosis on Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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pd
Laser Commando


Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Location: Gone

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd lie if I said no, cause frankly, I can't remember. However, I've always been ripping mods (though for personal use only), and that crap (literally) you mentioned was like 8 years ago. I was a kid back then. If I did whine, I have definitely changed my mind about that and encourage anybody to use it. Smile

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pd
Laser Commando


Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Location: Gone

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kenosis wrote:
yeah. You are PD and you are never attacked by tons of idiots shouting at you "rip MO". I'm tired of it. So I say you must at least let the audience see your mod first so that you don't become the ripper later.

Fame? Screw fame. I just don't want that kind of attack from idiots.

So yeah, let's say some Chinese guy rips your stuff and everybody believes he made it. If you so dearly insist, you can always go ahead and deliver proof that it was in fact your creation and deliver release dates and whatnot.

It's very possible that the reply to that will be "LOL NO". You are then obviously dealing with idiots, as you said, and probably trolls. Going into an argument with them means you are the loser.

So, you can either get pissed, not be able to do anything about it when it happens and get even more pissed. Or just relax and feel honored about your stuff being worth shit, and laugh about it with people who are on your side. Positivity, man! Do you know that term?

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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You gotta remember at least most of these would-be rippers would be claiming the stuff you made with your own blood,sweat & tears as their own.

Nobody wants that. If your gonna get something at least have the decency to ask permission and credit the authors where needed.

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kenosis
Commander


Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It is like how you passed your RockPatch to VK. Think of NP.

Think of that and make clear why chinese serious modders hate ripper mods.

Is it just ok to handle your work to some no quality rippers?

How about marrying own daughter to a drunk asshole?

And you just sit there laugh with a cup of tea.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yer, nothing happened after RockPatch 1.10, I mean 1.11 arrived just thereaft- oh wait...

That happens exactly in China. If I go mix Contra stuff with ROTR and add some Shockwave or whatelse into the mix, it'll make me awesome? Because in China that is pretty common and Mr. Hierolygphites random c'n'p guy will gonna write himself into the credits, because he did everything. That's China.

And building an asset site from mods' properties is bloodlusting if not raging.

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=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
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Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more...

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kenosis
Commander


Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Location: Moscow State University

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I must correct you Graion.  It is not China but "Most Chinese ZH modders".
At least we have a clean environment here in YR community.

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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I personally distribute my mod without protection so people can look and learn. I trust that they will respect that (plus most art is edited public assets anyway). So far I've had a number of written requests for stuff and that's all it takes.  It's very simple, just takes some communication and a bit of mutual respect.

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RatsInTheWalls
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Location: Where the fields are green

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

pd wrote:
I don't get all the buzz about ripping. If your stuff is worth ripping for others, you should feel honored. As long as they don't claim it's their work and even give credit in some way, where's the problem?

For some funny reason, while C&C modders seem to get uber-pissed about other mods using or modifying their assets or mixing them with other mods (without "permission"), the same issue is not an issue at all in the UT2004 world. Modders don't care or even congratulate for the idea. I do that myself with spin-offs of my RPG mod, which by itself is a spin-off of a spin-off... (no joke)

What are you C&C people so pissed about? You don't get all of the fame? You are claiming patent for your work? Stuff like that is what's wrong with this world.

Stop whining and see it as a compliment. After all, I'm pretty sure nobody in China would ever see your stuff if it wasn't for those rippers.


The problem with ripping is that people often claim stuff as their own.

Would you be happy if the Ares team started claiming they invented your Syringe?

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pd
Laser Commando


Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Location: Gone

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RatsInTheWalls wrote:

The problem with ripping is that people often claim stuff as their own.

Would you be happy if the Ares team started claiming they invented your Syringe?

No. But tell me, what would that change if they were to do that?
People know it's not true. People who don't know are out of my reach anyway. I could tell them they're buying a lie, but in their eyes I'll be the liar.

Instead, I could just relax and be happy that my work is being built upon.

Thing is, I trust they're not going to do that, OmegaBolt put this nicely.

OmegaBolt wrote:
It's very simple, just takes some communication and a bit of mutual respect.

That's the spirit.

There'll always be people disregarding that. The solution is easy. Disregard them.

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Hecthor Doomhammer
Flamethrower


Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Location: Hecthor Doomhammer Streaming Service HQ

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You know what they say about assuming. It makes an....

You assume that rippers will talk to you and ask permission, and in OmegaBolt's case, it worked out, but you simply cannot expect every ripper to do that,

I know I'm not an asset maker, or a modder, but I am a livestreamer, and I'd be pissed off if I see ppl recording my streams and uploading them on Youtube and claim it to be their own stream / work.

I know I can't stop it, but I will seek conversation once I find some one who does it and demand they stop, or at least credit me. If they don't I can at least use DMCA on them

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree with pd and OmegaBolt. I actually dislike how some mods are "protected" and approve the tools that have been made to break that protection. Before I was active in the community (well, PPM, I was around at Tibweb for multiple years before I started being active in this place), I often took a peak at various mods' INI files just to learn and explore the possibilities of the engine. I looked at mods like DTA, TSTW, TI etc. sometimes even took their assets and added them to my personal mod. In the end, partially thanks to the possibility of exploring INI files coded by veteran modders I became one of the most utilized AI coders around (I've written the whole DTA AI as well as significantly helped with the TI AI) as well as got lots general knowledge about the TS engine.

Basically, I think mods should be open so newbies can learn from them. In case someone rips assets and releases a mod with ripped assets, you can alert the rest of the community and go nuke down the ripper's mod (getting the mod removed from for example ModDB) as well as the ripper's chance of ever being a respected modder anywhere near the C&C community. This has happened various times, examples include iloo, Red Alert Millenium etc. I don't think any of them have got significant popularity or respect, at least outside of a small field protected by the language barrier.

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RatsInTheWalls
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Location: Where the fields are green

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As long as people keep stealing assets and claiming them as their own, there will be people that want to protect their stuff by encrypting it.

If people were honest and nice about assets, no one would encrypt their stuff.

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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah if only, it was always this, be glad your work is being built upon but when it goes the opposite direction, being made crap, lets say someone takes your beloved syringe and uses it for virus or other malicious purposes, bet you feel the pride of seeing your work being turned into deformed bastardization and people start speaking oh yeah its that evil syringe, stay away from it, bad publicity and first impression does matter.

Those that expect trust/honor (you name it...) from other unknown people are just plain kidding themselves, this world isn't ideal place, or else we wouldn't have thiefs, murderers, liars, con artists and list goes on and online makes no difference.

It is misconception when you start  talking about fame or desire patented shit, that's not what this is about. I find it a mindfuck that some are thick enough to consider it honoring if your own stuff is used in somewhere else without your permission (or even miscredited?) as frankly it is not like everyone!? wants to be honored or famed (like worth a damn!?) but rather that there can be unique mods and if people just wanna 'honor' by 'borrowing' assets then I sure don't see it as honoring anything, only fulfilling their own needs at my own project's uniqueness expense!

Who spent hours and hours to make the assets you decided to 'honor' by copying them and worst of all potentially even claim as yours if not defile them further...

The fact people do not appreciate the effort it takes to make the various artwork is exactly why even less and less people feel like making assets or own asset mods in general in this community and hell why should they, its easier for others simply 'borrow' than try learn make anything yourself.

It is surely a honoring experience to see your stuff in a mod that has about every god damn asset around and none of them fit together or had any effort in trying to make them work together.

As far learning excuse goes, majority of the mods since dawn of time have been open and there are endless pages of tutorials posted up as coding is not something here people are interested in protecting as none of the methods do either way.

Why are you so hellbent in having everything in your own mod at expense of other mods that you can't devise something of your own similar yet different if you so desire something from other mod.

It is easy for you vouch for open source (in everything) and care not for assets when your hard work has never been ripped or defiled or you never made a single asset to know work involved.

Glad I don't have much interest in sharing or modding so much these days as people are not gonna appreciate it with respect.

Game devs get paid for their assets and thus actually gained from it while we who make this for free have only to lose our uniqueness we worked our asses off to make.

Plus community whines of too much similar mods, gee...wonder why.

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