Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject:
New Cliff system.
Over the last two years I've been developing a new system of cliffs for D-day in 3DS Max, now after much experimentation and several weeks of nothing but rendering I've finished the first stage.
Four complete sets of different level cliff edges...
Each of these sets contains over 350 tiles, together they total 1,496 tiles in all, in comparison RA2 only has 42 cliff tiles in total!
I'm far from finished tho, the next stage is to make a modular ramp & joint system that will connect all four of the cliff levels together. Most of the prep work is done but I need to render and convert over 2,000 more tiles.
Once this mountainous task is finished I'll finally be able to make some very interesting map designs for D-day. In fact one of the main reasons for the lack of maps in D-day has been this new cliff system. I knew that any map I made would have to be redone once I'd finished these cliffs, a lot of my ideas for new maps would only be possible with these new cliffs too. _________________
Can you give more info about the "new cliff system"?
350 Tiles looks to me like you created a full circle and made for every 10° a 1x1 tile with 10 variations.
Do you plan some interactive cliff creation/removal with the cliffs working like a LAT, so trigger can change the landscape?
I'm really eager to see/know what new stuff this new system allows to do.
However the new system works, the new graphics are extremely nice. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Damn, this looks really really nice, who knew RA2 could look so good. As is LKO, I really want to know how you did this so this this maybe could be a new basis for future terrain
Incredible job Mig, nice to see someone can still find something new to do with the engine! _________________ "Don't beg for things; Do it yourself or you'll never get anything." QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: ZivDero Joined: 23 Jul 2013 Location: Russia
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject:
The only downside is that now the only way to place cliffs in the editor is... manual. _________________
DarkVen9109 wrote:
What in the name of insanity is this? I FRICKING LOVE THIS LOGICCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOHEEAWWWWWWWWWWWYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW PEW PEW PEW PEW BOOM BOOM BOOM!! Nice I love this!!!! Ferriswheel bomb, Dive bomb. New Logic discovered thanks to Kenosis
Looks very nice. Hope there is no hardcoding or restriction for a cliff to be of a different height
than 4. Better to test a sample set in-game before working on lot of tiles. QUICK_EDIT
Nothing so elaborate, I guess "system" probably wasn't the best word to use. It works the same way as normal cliffs just that all the tiles & sets have been redone from scratch. There are 48 main tiles in each set (a few more for the 1 cell high cliffs) and then each of them has 8 variations, which the game will automatically pick from (8 is the max BTW, would have done more if I could).
Once I'm finished mountains will no longer just be 4 cell high box with a steep ramp. I'll be able to make staggered multi leveled cliff fronts with paths that wind in and out of rock formations.
@Parasite03:
I don't think I've every actually used the auto cliff tool
E1 Elite:
You can't make tiles higher then 4 but 3, 2 & 1 are fine, the pics are actually in game BTW. _________________
LOL, I had been working on something like this after seeing a post some time ago, I kinda gave up on it.... you have inspired me to revive it. _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
Sadly bridges are hard coded at 4 cells high. I plan to make some fake bridges that you can go over but not under tho. Which is probably more realistic anyway as it would look a bit ridiculous if an aircraft carrier can go under a 1 cell high bridge _________________
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Location: Where the fields are green
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject:
Mig Eater wrote:
Sadly bridges are hard coded at 4 cells high. I plan to make some fake bridges that you can go over but not under tho. Which is probably more realistic anyway as it would look a bit ridiculous if an aircraft carrier can go under a 1 cell high bridge
...out of all people, you'd understand now you live in the Netherlands... What about movable bridges? _________________ QUICK_EDIT
ah, thanks for the answer. That explains the lots of tiles.
Mig Eater wrote:
@Parasite03:
I don't think I've every actually used the auto cliff tool
no mapper does afaik, since it always causes cliff errors.
Mig Eater wrote:
You can't make tiles higher then 4 but 3, 2 & 1 are fine, the pics are actually in game BTW.
Are you sure? The tmp file format has from the file structure outgoing, no problem to set a tile on height 20.
@RatsInTheWalls: drawbridges would be nice, but i doubt there is way to get such thing working. For DTA Bittah, me and the other stuff discuss for years, how a better bridge logic could be added (not the currently used tunnel under a "bridge tile"), but no idea really gave a useful solution.
The community also tries to find for years to find a way to make buildable bridges, but there was not one successful and really useful attempt so far. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Location: Where the fields are green
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:17 pm Post subject:
Lin Kuei Ominae wrote:
The community also tries to find for years to find a way to make buildable bridges, but there was not one successful and really useful attempt so far.
You don't have to tell me mate. I still remember the hype when someone (maybe it was you?) managed to "build" grass and repairpads on water. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Also Known As: ZivDero Joined: 23 Jul 2013 Location: Russia
Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject:
Actually, I totally support you. 1, 2, and 3 cell hight cliifs don't look high enough to have a vehicle going under it. At least a water vessel though tanks could barely git under the 3 high one. But that would look bad IMO so even if you could make real bridges, I think fake ones would be better. _________________
DarkVen9109 wrote:
What in the name of insanity is this? I FRICKING LOVE THIS LOGICCCC!!!!!!!!!!!!OOOOOOOOHEEAWWWWWWWWWWWYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW PEW PEW PEW PEW BOOM BOOM BOOM!! Nice I love this!!!! Ferriswheel bomb, Dive bomb. New Logic discovered thanks to Kenosis
Are you sure? The tmp file format has from the file structure outgoing, no problem to set a tile on height 20.
In the past (like 10 years ago) I couldn't get it to work but I just test it again & you can make tiles higher then 4. Knowing that now tho I don't think it's worth making 5 or 6 cell high cliffs, the main point of these new cliffs was to get away from high horizontal cliff faces & make more natural staggered rock formations. It's useful to know for when I make the Ruhr dams tho _________________
a 5 levels high cliff would be indeed not that useful, but a 6 and 8 level high one could become useful, especially when you now have also smaller sublevels which combined could lead to these very high cliffs. Though i guess the amount of additional work for all the possible transition cliff pieces is not worth it (you would need a 6to4 6to3 6to2 as well as 8to6 8to4 etc for all possible directions).
I just wonder what would happen if you place on height 12 in a map, a height 8 cliff. since the game supports only max 14 height levels, the upper cliff part on height 20 surely causes some bugs. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
Unfortunately I'm unable to make 8 variations of each of the ramps due to problems with the Z-data & parts overlapping, but that means I'll only have to do an eighth of the work now
The difference between the hand made & 3D rendered grass is a bit more prominent on the slopes. I'll probably redo the grass in 3D in the future but it would mean having to redo nearly everything else too, so I'm going to leave it for now. _________________
Bump for bad news, work on these new cliffs has stalled (once again). The computer I was making them on started crashing & required the OS to be reinstalled. I have all the files backed up but opening them on a different computer results in a complete corrupt mess. So I may have to redo all the modeling from scratch (for the third time) >.> _________________
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:33 am Post subject:
This is great work and especially considering how much time and effort you put into this, I really admire it.
I think rather than starting over, the more promising way would be to get the help of a computer technician who can restore your files to their original state, or retrieve the files from your old HD, where they are now overwritten by the re-installation (this is not very hard to do, there are even freeware tools available online to do it). _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
I have all the files backed up, that isn't a problem. 3DS Max is just very picky, files saved in newer versions of 3DS wont work in older ones, or in this case files saved on one computer wont work on a different PC.
I'm hoping the files will still work after reinstalling everything on the original PC, but it's still a pain as I don't use that PC any more anyway. _________________
I have all the files backed up, that isn't a problem. 3DS Max is just very picky, files saved in newer versions of 3DS wont work in older ones
Yea, they changed the file format with each new verison, you can still save as a legacy format tho.
Not long after when i started working with Gangster i switched to Max 2013 because it was more stable on my PC while he still had Max 2010, i saved everything as a Max 2010 format and he could open and work with it. Now he has Max 2013 everything still opens fine and i'm actually even missing a few FX plugins he has but since they are not used in the scene Max just informs me they are missing and lets me open them.
Mig Eater wrote:
or in this case files saved on one computer wont work on a different PC.
They should if you are using the same or newer version of Max.
1. Either you are missing a service pack for Max.
2. The file's are corrupt.
3. You'r missing a plugin you actually make use of in the max scene, making Max unable to open it properly.
One other thing you can try is Import > Merge your broken max file in to a new empty scene, if the crash is caused by a plugin/broken geometry you should be able to pinpoint which one is it this way, some people even manage to recover the entire scene using this method.
Both PCs have the standard 3DS Max 2010 installed without any extra plugins. One is a Dutch Win7 64bit & the other an English WinXP 32bit. The original files were made on the Win7 PC & opening/importing them on the WinXP results in polygons randomly shooting up all over the place :/ I'm thinking it might be the 64-32 bit difference causing the problem, I'll try also installing the 32bit version of 3DS Max on the 64bit PC & see if I get the same error. _________________
A few small things look out of place but the general terrain is great.
e.g.
-too dark south east shadowed side on the big cannon bunker
-the ship looks very small and a bit low detailed compared to the rest
-the beach waves look quite big and low detailed compared to the spray on the cliffs
-too sharp transition pieces on the north east slopes _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
I spent the the last three days working nonstop making the joint connections so you can link any of the cliff sets to any other in 16 different directions.
I'm to warn out & need to rest, I'll post some pics tomorrow. _________________
I remember now why I don't like map making, it takes bloody ages. I haven't really opened Final Alert 2 in about two years as well so I'm a bit rusty. Anyway pics of the new cliffs will take a bit longer _________________
@Krow: The Gustav was just eye candy, it's impossible to make it a usable weapon ingame.
@Bolt: Cliffs feel more like 50x complex now, my mind implodes trying to decide what to put where. I doubt I could really put all these new tiles to full use, they need an experienced map maker like you I think _________________
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
New Cliff system.
I still remember the hype when someone (maybe it was you?) managed to "build" grass and repairpads on water.
