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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
MindControl damage "bug"
Moderators: Ares Support Team at PPM, Global Moderators, Red Alert 2 Moderators
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 2:07 am    Post subject:  MindControl damage "bug"
Subject description: irregularity, novelty loss of functionality, call it what you like
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ModEnc's page on the MindControl tag uses the following example:
ModEnc wrote:

Psi Commando, for example, can control up to 15 units from very long range when he turns Elite

The Psi Commando, of course, has Damage=1 on his rookie weapon, and Damage=15 on his elite weapon, which means the maximum number of mind control links he can have goes up from 1 to 15 upon promotion.

I have no quick way to test whether the unmodified YR engine really behaves the way described in that quote, but some very exhaustive testing in Ares (to rule out possible cross-effects) has led me to the conclusion that in Ares, maximum MC links are bound to the Damage attribute of the rookie weapon - if you increase the damage on the elite version of the weapon, you will not get more MC links, just the same as you'd get with the rookie weapon, and the Damage on the elite weapon is ignored (also, InfiniteMindControl is apparently skipped in the same situations). This indicates a loss of function between Ares and YR. The proper way, of course, to fix the Psi-Com is to set Damage=1 on the elite weapon, binding max links to the rookie damage is not desirable in case someone intentionally sets the elite weapon to allow more MC links than the rookie weapon.

Again, I have NO IDEA if non-Ares-ified YR actually acts that way or someone was just typing bogus on the ModEnc page. Maybe someone else has more insight.

(I'm also uncertain what happens if you have more than one MC weapon, for different targets...)

Supplemental:
It appears that the number of MC links is bound by the damage of the first MC weapon the game finds on a unit. If the Primary is a MC weapon, then the damage of the Primary will determine the maximum number of links, even if the ElitePrimary is NOT a MC weapon, and the EliteSecondary is a MC weapon.

I.e.:
Code:

[UnitA]
Primary=MindControl
Secondary=Pistol
ElitePrimary=PistolE
EliteSecondary=MindControlE

The damage of the Primary will determine the number of MC links, even on Elite.

If the first MC weapon found by the game is the Secondary, then that will determine the number of MC links:
Code:

[UnitB]
Primary=Pistol
Secondary=MindControl
ElitePrimary=PistolE
EliteSecondary=MindControlE

The damage of the Secondary will determine the number of MC links, even on Elite.

Checking now if the behaviour with two different MC weapons for different targets is consistent with this explanation:
Code:

[UnitC]
Primary=MindControlOrganic ; a MC weapon which can only hit infantry and has a Damage of 3.
Secondary=MindControl ; the normal MC weapon, with a damage of 1.
ElitePrimary=MindControlOrganic
EliteSecondary=MindControlE ; it has a damage of 10


And it is. The unit is unable to control more than 3 targets of either type. A further minor bug is uncovered in that rookie units at their MC limit (if MC limit is greater than 1) get the NoMove cursor when targeting further units, while elite units get the Attack cursor, but will of course not attack.

Untested so far is whether damage can be overriden if a unit is granted a weapon with LOWER damage. Also untested is:

Code:

[UnitD]
Primary=Pistol
Secondary=MindControl
ElitePrimary=MindControlE
EliteSecondary=PistolE


and
Code:

[UnitE]
Primary=Pistol
ElitePrimary=MindControlE


but I expect them to be in line with previous tests.

Supplemental II:

Another minor bug... if a unit has a Primary with Damage=0, but a Secondary which has MC and positive Damage, the Primary will deal the damage of the Secondary, as opposed to its own Damage. I'm not sure if this issue would be raised with negative damage, or if the Primary had non-zero damage (ie if the Secondary damage always overrides Primary damage if Secondary is MC=yes). I have not tested it, but I wouldn't think this was the case, otherwise this issue would probably have been noticed earlier.
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mevitar
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 31 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some ModEnc pages might contain errors or incorrect information (the ones that are copied from Deezire's guide are more prone for that). If you're sure it's incorrect, you're free to modify it. We're all humans, we can make mistakes.

And indeed, having different damage on the elite weapon does not affect how many objects can be controlled. Only the Primary weapon is checked. If i remember correctly, the only thing that Ares changes is that the first weapon with MindControl=yes is checked instead.

Similar situation is the case in case of weapons with Parasite=yes warhead, and might be the case for Temporal=yes.

Last edited by mevitar on Mon May 25, 2015 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At Temporal, damage ROF, etc is used per weapon. WarpAway animation will not, tho.
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mevitar
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 31 Dec 2010

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not entirely, because with two weapons with Temporal=yes warhead, each having different verses, only the first one is used (or the damage from the first one is used, not sure atm).

Also, ROF only matters for the shooting effect, while the "damage" is "dealt" per each frame. Same for elite variations of MindControl=yes weapons: weapon effects and ROF can all be changed, but it still uses the Damage= value from the first one.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe damage then, because that time you pointed out AS Hildegard had some quirk against buildings was a secondary weapon with 3xROF and buildings-only verses.
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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two Temporal=yes weapons on a single unit aren't supported by the engine. Errors are to be expected.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mevitar wrote:
Some ModEnc pages might contain errors or incorrect information (the ones that are copied from Deezire's guide are more prone for that). If you're sure it's incorrect, you're free to modify it. We're all humans, we can make mistakes.


Well, I... wasn't sure if it was wrong, actually #Tongue but judging from this thread, I guess I gave a false alert about Ares and that ModEnc article is wrong. I will fix that then.
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MRMIdAS
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's to prevent a bug IIRC, if the logic worked as expected, your Psi-Commando would lose any MC links it had on promotion to Elite, as the weapon changes.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, having solved this issue, the two minor bugs that I uncovered remain:

1) rookie units at their MC limit (if MC limit is greater than 1) get the NoMove cursor when targeting further units, while elite units get the Attack cursor, but will of course not attack. (might only apply if unit has another weapon in addition to their MC weapon)
2)  if a unit has a Primary with Damage=0, but a Secondary which has MC and positive Damage, the Primary will deal the damage of the Secondary, as opposed to its own Damage=0. I'm not sure if this issue would be raised with negative damage, or if the Primary had non-zero damage (ie if the Secondary damage always overrides Primary damage if Secondary is MC=yes).
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