Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 2:07 am Post subject:
MindControl damage "bug"
Subject description: irregularity, novelty loss of functionality, call it what you like
ModEnc's page on the MindControl tag uses the following example:
ModEnc wrote:
Psi Commando, for example, can control up to 15 units from very long range when he turns Elite
The Psi Commando, of course, has Damage=1 on his rookie weapon, and Damage=15 on his elite weapon, which means the maximum number of mind control links he can have goes up from 1 to 15 upon promotion.
I have no quick way to test whether the unmodified YR engine really behaves the way described in that quote, but some very exhaustive testing in Ares (to rule out possible cross-effects) has led me to the conclusion that in Ares, maximum MC links are bound to the Damage attribute of the rookie weapon - if you increase the damage on the elite version of the weapon, you will not get more MC links, just the same as you'd get with the rookie weapon, and the Damage on the elite weapon is ignored (also, InfiniteMindControl is apparently skipped in the same situations). This indicates a loss of function between Ares and YR. The proper way, of course, to fix the Psi-Com is to set Damage=1 on the elite weapon, binding max links to the rookie damage is not desirable in case someone intentionally sets the elite weapon to allow more MC links than the rookie weapon.
Again, I have NO IDEA if non-Ares-ified YR actually acts that way or someone was just typing bogus on the ModEnc page. Maybe someone else has more insight.
(I'm also uncertain what happens if you have more than one MC weapon, for different targets...)
Supplemental:
It appears that the number of MC links is bound by the damage of the first MC weapon the game finds on a unit. If the Primary is a MC weapon, then the damage of the Primary will determine the maximum number of links, even if the ElitePrimary is NOT a MC weapon, and the EliteSecondary is a MC weapon.
The damage of the Secondary will determine the number of MC links, even on Elite.
Checking now if the behaviour with two different MC weapons for different targets is consistent with this explanation:
Code:
[UnitC]
Primary=MindControlOrganic ; a MC weapon which can only hit infantry and has a Damage of 3.
Secondary=MindControl ; the normal MC weapon, with a damage of 1.
ElitePrimary=MindControlOrganic
EliteSecondary=MindControlE ; it has a damage of 10
And it is. The unit is unable to control more than 3 targets of either type. A further minor bug is uncovered in that rookie units at their MC limit (if MC limit is greater than 1) get the NoMove cursor when targeting further units, while elite units get the Attack cursor, but will of course not attack.
Untested so far is whether damage can be overriden if a unit is granted a weapon with LOWER damage. Also untested is:
but I expect them to be in line with previous tests.
Supplemental II:
Another minor bug... if a unit has a Primary with Damage=0, but a Secondary which has MC and positive Damage, the Primary will deal the damage of the Secondary, as opposed to its own Damage. I'm not sure if this issue would be raised with negative damage, or if the Primary had non-zero damage (ie if the Secondary damage always overrides Primary damage if Secondary is MC=yes). I have not tested it, but I wouldn't think this was the case, otherwise this issue would probably have been noticed earlier. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Some ModEnc pages might contain errors or incorrect information (the ones that are copied from Deezire's guide are more prone for that). If you're sure it's incorrect, you're free to modify it. We're all humans, we can make mistakes.
And indeed, having different damage on the elite weapon does not affect how many objects can be controlled. Only the Primary weapon is checked. If i remember correctly, the only thing that Ares changes is that the first weapon with MindControl=yes is checked instead.
Similar situation is the case in case of weapons with Parasite=yes warhead, and might be the case for Temporal=yes. Last edited by mevitar on Mon May 25, 2015 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 3:20 pm Post subject:
At Temporal, damage ROF, etc is used per weapon. WarpAway animation will not, tho. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
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Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
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WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Not entirely, because with two weapons with Temporal=yes warhead, each having different verses, only the first one is used (or the damage from the first one is used, not sure atm).
Also, ROF only matters for the shooting effect, while the "damage" is "dealt" per each frame. Same for elite variations of MindControl=yes weapons: weapon effects and ROF can all be changed, but it still uses the Damage= value from the first one. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 4:59 pm Post subject:
Maybe damage then, because that time you pointed out AS Hildegard had some quirk against buildings was a secondary weapon with 3xROF and buildings-only verses. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
=======================
Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
=======================
WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject:
mevitar wrote:
Some ModEnc pages might contain errors or incorrect information (the ones that are copied from Deezire's guide are more prone for that). If you're sure it's incorrect, you're free to modify it. We're all humans, we can make mistakes.
Well, I... wasn't sure if it was wrong, actually but judging from this thread, I guess I gave a false alert about Ares and that ModEnc article is wrong. I will fix that then. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
It's to prevent a bug IIRC, if the logic worked as expected, your Psi-Commando would lose any MC links it had on promotion to Elite, as the weapon changes. _________________ MIdAS - Turning wages into beer since 2002 QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject:
Okay, having solved this issue, the two minor bugs that I uncovered remain:
1) rookie units at their MC limit (if MC limit is greater than 1) get the NoMove cursor when targeting further units, while elite units get the Attack cursor, but will of course not attack. (might only apply if unit has another weapon in addition to their MC weapon)
2) if a unit has a Primary with Damage=0, but a Secondary which has MC and positive Damage, the Primary will deal the damage of the Secondary, as opposed to its own Damage=0. I'm not sure if this issue would be raised with negative damage, or if the Primary had non-zero damage (ie if the Secondary damage always overrides Primary damage if Secondary is MC=yes). _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
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