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RA2: Frontlines
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PillBox20
Commander


Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my mod I will never use build limits for basic units, even for advanced units. I can just make this unit not worth massing:

-reduce the speed
-slow rate of turn (it effects the turret rotation too)
-make it counterable by more than 2 units
-make it good versus less than 3 unit types

No need for build limits. Smile

The basic tanks in my mod don't take damage from basic infantry, move slow (like the apocalypse tank), have different weapons vs infantry that either make them attack slower or with less damage or they are not accurate vs them.

You can also rework your economy, like making them expensive or give them higher build times. Just because someone can afford alot of tanks, doesn't mean that that person should not be allowed to build them. It also means that his army will be vulnerable to.... let's say air attack, precise artillery, mines, hijackers, anti-tank infantry and my favourite..... Camouflaged StuGs!!!

Smile

Eddit:
Forgot to mention that my tanks also have a death weapon that does small damage, so if you have alot of tanks and they start to die there will be collatheral damage all around the dying tanks.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would way sooner rather have a build limit on units and be encouraged to move my money elsewhere than be bloody poor all the time because i'm riding on 0 cash cuz there's not enough dough. I already buffed income a fair bit, and made ore grow at a pace where 2 war miners, or 1 chrono miner can only just keep a drill from expanding.

I probably could go and make SA and stuff do much less damage to armour, so that GI's are a little less stacked.  I've already tweaked tanks to have a more sensible turn rate (there aren't enough slow speeds though, even 1 isn't all that slow for boats), and various tanks i've decreased the speed on and such. (tanks aren't actually that slow though).
...speaking of stugs, i should probably get a replacement tank destroyer that doesn't look like a horizontal mounted m110
Camo isn't gonna be a thing really in my mod.  by their point in tech it's kinda hard to trick any modern sensors with basic optical camouflage.  Also if you have any decent eyes, you can spot a camo unit pretty easy: remember the good old "camo pillbox" in ra1?  The only real way to apply camouflage effectively is like what i did with the demolition tug boats, and make it so you can spot them but they don't have threat value to opposing units' target finding... that is unless you wanna use cloaking.

It's not like i find build limits necessary, i feel that they might be a good idea to implement, and something nobody's really done fully that i'm aware of.  Again, not army limits, but limits to how much you, as a commander, are authorized or have the resources to command in individual unit classes.  As it is now, i don't even have build limits on apoc, just on heavy naval units, and things like the kirov gunship (because sky arty is pretty cheap /me thinks of cnc3 devastators), and then hero units.

I'm not the biggest fan of making individual units only good against certain other units.. cuz like stock tank destroyers... Somehow they could penetrate tank armour like tinfoil, but when it came to buildings or infantry it might as well be shooting potatoes at a cliff.  It feels really dumb to me.
But like i said, i could spice it up by adding things like certain units having anti-missile fields, and special material coated armour that reflects light well (anti-prism) and having units with good insulation and grounding to be good vs tesla.  Death weapons is an idea, but i've been having bad luck with death weapons not working right (it's something i could consider down the road when tweaking and improving balance and stuff).

Specialize units, but don't overspecialize units.
Make units interesting for strategies and tactics by the way they're used as well, and not just what is good vs what.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PillBox20 wrote:
In my mod I will never use build limits for basic units, even for advanced units. I can just make this unit not worth massing:

-reduce the speed
-slow rate of turn (it effects the turret rotation too)
-make it counterable by more than 2 units
-make it good versus less than 3 unit types

These are important points I think... tanks in RA2 move like racing cars and scoot across the map in a few seconds. Generals did that right by making tanks alot slower and clumsy. Unfortunately, we can't reproduce the turn angle system from Generals, RA2 units always turn on the spot. But ROT is still a good leverage to nerf tanks, it definitely should be fine-tuned in a mod.

Quote:

You can also rework your economy, like making them expensive or give them higher build times. Just because someone can afford alot of tanks, doesn't mean that that person should not be allowed to build them.

It's a good idea, I also think you should be able to win by building lots of tanks, eventually. But I feel like if you go that way, it at least needs to be demanding on the economy, so you need a sound strategy in that area. RA2 totally fails that part I think, any average economy can churn out enough tanks to steamroll 5 bases.
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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real issue with economy in RA2 is IMO balancing it between early and late game. You don't want such a crap eco in your mod so that the early game is just boring as everyone is waiting for their miners to hurry up (not to mention it also guarantees everyone will build more harvesters first instead of an early attack). However the game almost always ends up with every player having practically infinite money.

IMO Ares silo logic goes a long way in countering this. At least then you can cap the amount of cash stored and people can also lose it their refineries get blown up. It's also a good idea to allow people to build more units quickly, to use up excess eco if they have it, such as maybe increasing the multiple factory bonus. At least then you are rewarded for having a better eco. Lots of mods now have support powers too that are used to throw cash away.

On the subject of build limits I personally find arbitrary ones rather unintuitive and annoying. Heroes being build limit 1 make sense but I remember a number of mods attempted to counter air spam with a BL of 30 or so, and that's just a weird random limitation. If it's not a visible limit I think it's rather strange and a rather cheap way of achieving balance.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already have slowed down tanks, but i don't intend to make them too slow, cuz i do like units being reasonably quick, so that they can respond faster, and ur not waiting for ur slugs to get places.... Although perhaps nerfing the speed on battle tanks more, while letting things like prism tanks etc remain fast, might be an idea.

It would be nice if we could have additional tooltip info on sidebars, like, add in details like build limits or possibly brief descriptions, the way it ads in cost without being on the unit tooltip itself.

it doesn't have to be complex, it could be straight forward like limit 30 for standard, limit 15 for tech units (radar/tech center) and then only arbitrary for naval and special units; and heroes obviously being 1.

Millennium wrote:
tanks in RA2 move like racing cars and scoot across the map in a few seconds.
well the game is supposed to be run at the medium(fast) speed setting, not medium-high(faster), or high(fastest).  You'd have to adjust mostly everything in the game to be more sensible with medium-high game speed (and you don't have that many speed choices at the low end when compensating, especially with turn rate).  Also, red alert series always had faster units than tib series.

I find making units slow, or do crap damage to certain things that don't make sense to be more cheap way of balancing.  And also see with build limits, i'm not attempting to achieve side-side balance or even unit-unit balance necessarily, i'm attempting to achieve forcing people to make use of more variety of units, cut back on unnecessary spam, on all sides.  Tank blob rushes = bad.  Combo tactics = good.  In my mod, battle tanks are for assaults and forward defence, not primary force, they're vanguard.

When you actually watch some pro matches in cnc games, it's a whole different world, everybody's playing smarter, they often don't even get the -chance- to build blobs, because their enemy is so swift. but build limits prevent someone from just hiding back and building blobs while the enemy builds blobs too, when playing more casual games where the enemy isn't crawling up ur buttocks every minute. combine that with having more valuable assets within the map, it forces people to be more aggressive and less prepping swarms (with taking out tactical superweapons i'll need to supplement the sense of haste on the offence with other things), and makes for a more active and interesting match.

How to make arbitrary build limits more clear? crank MaximumQueuedObjects way up! then it's obvious when ur limit is 30, cuz you can only queue 29+1! (where i'd probably just knock it up to 31 so it's 30+1 lol)
Speaking of MaximumQueuedObjects, i haven't found and info on it, so i guess i'll just test, usually people use 98/99 for build queue, but can it go to, say 998 without probs? (i'd imagine quite unnecessary, but more of a curiosity thing, if i wanted to just crank it to completely rid of queue limiting)

I always hated silos :<
Running out of money is my pet peeve.  Also makes you a sitting duck and easy kill.

ps: loading up on resource gathering quickly (extra harvesters) is part of regular cnc tournament strategy. the issue with stock games is that the stupid ore drills can't keep up with more than 1 harvester per drill.
i found i got poor really quick in late game, as well as the AI's stopped doing stuff cuz they got stuck in a low money pattern.  with the edits i did, i find the money comes in at a better rate for a high action match (lots of losing units and structures), but if you have like 1 or more derricks you really rake it in though, and that's where the infinite money comes in.
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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A better way to achieve balance IMO is to simply 'suggest' through a rock, paper, scissors type system what is good in what situation. The reason RA2 was all about tank spam was because they were the most efficient all around at everything, but it doesn't have to be like that. Making other units useful by filling a role well that other units don't fill is IMO the only real way to make anyone use anything. Even if you put a 15 BL cap on RA2 basic tanks people would only start building other units when they hit the limit, not because other things were more useful.

I dont think increasing the build queue will help at all. I personally never queue up 30 units anyway as I don't want to be sitting around clicking 30 times, even worse if it were 100, I just queue up what I want and make sure to keep building by going back to the sidebar. That's what it's good for.

Not to mention if you queue up 30 units you're kind of locked into buildings those units unless you want to right click 30 more times (or more as cancel orders get often ignored online).

The only way you could make it visual is to add it on the cameo.
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PillBox20
Commander


Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot to add that my basic tanks and the Apocalypse requires Service Depot to be built, until then I will have to use Terror Drones/IFVs.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OmegaBolt wrote:
I dont think increasing the build queue will help at all. I personally never queue up 30 units anyway as I don't want to be sitting around clicking 30 times, even worse if it were 100, I just queue up what I want and make sure to keep building by going back to the sidebar. That's what it's good for.
Not to mention if you queue up 30 units you're kind of locked into buildings those units unless you want to right click 30 more times (or more as cancel orders get often ignored online).
I just meant increasing it to get rid of it, i'm sure 98 is plenty though really (if i recall correctly, cnc3 even only had a 99 limit).  for infantry, 30 can feel a bit shallow at times.
oh yeah, shift-rightclick (clear queue) works in RA2.  shift-leftclick (add 5) doesn't however.

Lol... i don't even use the service depot usually... it repairs slow and costs money to do it :<
Though i guess having some more things besides mcv require it would make you more inclined to have it.  Not a bad suggestion.  Don't wanna standard mbt's on it though, unless maybe i make it a fair bit cheaper or something.  Iono, i'll play with stuff.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like the Service Depot either, it's lots of micromanagement for not alot of tactical utility. You can't constantly ferry damaged units back and forth between the front and your SD. I guess that's why several mods replace them with automatic repair cranes now.

If however, passive units went to get repairs on their own and the SD could have a rallying point for repaired units to send them right back to the front, things would be very different...

In my mod, I still use repair depots, but only for one faction that is intentionally gimped in that department, while the other factions use repair-aura structures, repair vehicles, repair SW and self-healing vehicles, respectively.

GenesisAria wrote:

Millennium wrote:
tanks in RA2 move like racing cars and scoot across the map in a few seconds.
well the game is supposed to be run at the medium(fast) speed setting, not medium-high(faster), or high(fastest).  You'd have to adjust mostly everything in the game to be more sensible with medium-high game speed (and you don't have that many speed choices at the low end when compensating, especially with turn rate).  Also, red alert series always had faster units than tib series.

Granted, the speed settings for tanks are pretty much identical to those used by tanks in TD and RA, like all other stats (I think TS vehicles are slower though, haven't checked). As for ROT, the default ROT value for land vehicles in RA2 seems to be 5, which gives some room still for adjustment, especially between wheeled vehicles and tracked ones.
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OmegaBolt
President


Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Location: York, England

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The campaign runs at game speed 4, which I what I used to base my balancing on.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never realized game speed could change balance... I mean, between AI and human players, sure. But I didn't think it would upset unit balance, since everything gets sped up accordingly. Interesting.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think of it like keeping the same maximum speeds, but raising the slowest possible speeds by 1/3, it takes away the depth of variation.

I think anything beyond speed 4 just makes the game hectic and there's no apparent benefit to having a house with ordinarily faster units.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've already restored acceleration to all of the units, though i probably want to adjust the curve for that to improve it a bit more... Most tanks i have at turn speed 4 now i believe.  I want them to be heavy, but i don't want them to be slugs either.  Naval units need much slower accel.

Having more speed is actually fairly beneficial when you're playing smart, for example, using abrams to out-range t-80's while on the move, lesser armoured units can out-run heavy anti-tank units.  Also fast units are excellent for hit and run: like my humvees, you can run in, mow some infantry then bolt away (or drop some inf off, because each humvee has a passenger seat).  They're like speed 10 or somecrap, but again have acceleration.

I probably will consider working in repair auras, i just hadn't gotten there yet.  Perhaps i could have a really mild repair aura, and have it stackable with a docked repair (goes for naval yards as well).  I don't want big crazy repair fields or else it'll just be a place to hunker and turtle.  I like the idea of tanking and having field repairs, but i don't want people to be defending their bases while hiding around service depots.  I've already added a repair bot for sov union, so they have effective field repairs (legion units are mostly disposable, so they want speed instead anyways)... i'm not sure what i'll do regarding the ifv though, not everyone thinks of engie ifv's because they're not right in the sidebar, even though they're mega useful. Ally forces lack repair atm because ifv is ally tech unit.

I wonder if it's possible to make a parasite that goes inside like terror drone but does negative damage?
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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a good idea... Acceleration has a bad bug that causes units to permanently get slowed down after a long while in matches.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atomic_Noodles wrote:
Not a good idea... Acceleration has a bad bug that causes units to permanently get slowed down after a long while in matches.

Explain? I never noticed this...

Almost all my units have Accelerates=yes but I also have both accel/decel factors specified too, could this change anything?

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Mig Eater
Defense Minister


Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Eindhoven

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A unit with speed 1 or 2 & Accelerates can also get permanently stuck. This happens when things like Accelerates & the Land Characteristics reduce the speed to 0, then the unit will be unable to move for the rest of the game.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, i think i've gotten a tank to be stuck once since staring this mod, but i think it had to do with that old legacy glitch where a unit could somehow get stuck beside the wrong ground types... like try to drive on cliff and get stuck beside it.

(Oh yeah and i seem to be able to get infantry stuck in tunnels consistently if they aren't aligned perfectly.)

If a tank gets stuck, "it broke down" easy to dismiss as, "well crap that's annoying...  I guess the tank is a defence turret now."

I've never noticed permanent slowness ever.  Units will be slow moving if you only move them like 1 or 2 tiles and have movement speed 1 or 2 yeah...
My reaper tank only has speed 1 or 2, and it's never had issues moving around other than when moving only one tile it could get painfully slow until it landed and could pick a new vector (i believe that's fixable by just making the minimum speed % higher).

ps: i don't think i've ever had units alive for longer than a couple hours (because of me farting around instead of just ending it), never noticed anything.
oh yeah, and i haven't bothered with deceleration, being a copy of accel is fine.

pps: although i have seen that crazy spaz getting stuck in ts, when i made tib fiends too fast, they'd sometimes get stuck on a tile spamming back and forth really fast.  haven't produced that in ra2.
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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Accelerates is not something I would use, it is what causes the apocalypse gets hit and loses all its max speed instantly issue (from single hit) and you don't need to declare Accelerates=yes/true basicly as its on by default.

Very stupid, its like single shot hits the engine directly always and it has to start from scratch to accelerate again and it gets hit again and it resets...
Chasing units & acceleration= tragic fail and for some reason WW disabled it for basic tanks while some not...

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Accelerates makes units fall back to initial speed when hit?
Interesting, I have also used Accelerates on nearly all my vehicles and never noticed issues with it...

Then again, as for the other issue Mig Eater pointed out, can't say I have alot of experience with it, because I have only one or two units with that speed and I've only ever tested them on roads/clear.

Maybe if there are issues with it, Ares will fix them some day. I really like the Accelerates/SlowdownDistance feature.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well none of my units is less than speed 3, even the various large ships are greater.

I do agree the stop/turn/accelerate in path tracking is irritating, but having a higher ROT on a slower vehicle helps offset that fairly well. If everything accelerates though, then the faster unit will still win in a race.
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PillBox20
Commander


Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only time I have seen a unit being slowed down when moving is the apocalypse tank when driving trough a wall section. Then it gets real slow, but if it drives trough another wall section it recieves his old speed back. Confused

I have no such problems with my Battle Fortress, for some reason..
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean when like running over fences? vehicles do that.  they move slow to get onto the fence tile, and then get their speed to squish the rest or run off.  It's moving onto an occupied tile, like a crush move, didn't get smoothed out.

I've never experienced the acceleration resetting to start speed.

Anyways, acceleration works fine.  If there are occasional glitches or things not behaving when in conjunction with certain other things, i've yet to come across them.  My reaper tank has never shown itself misbehaving in any way shape or form, and it's very slow with a very low ROT (the only annoying one with that is really slow units sometimes take a long time to get to their tile to turn and follow the next move order, but that's okay for a tank that's meant to be an army soloing beast).  All terrain types that track normally goes on works fine.  They accelerate and decelerate pretty much as expected to.  That includes vehicle crushers and universal wall crusher.

Oh yeah, i also entered in to every unit whether it was track or wheel speed types.  So maybe that has something to do with it.

I like acceleration and encourage others to use it if they can, as i see no persistent technical issues in the base game around it so far.


Edit: finally have a good pace in what i'm doing, so it won't be super long before i'm back.. couple weeks.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am back and ready to roll again... Been fixing a bunch of random stuff.
Tackled a little bit of voxelling.. Shortened a barrel on the tank destroyer voxel i dug up, and got myself a chassis for a sea scorpion replacement that has a turret instead of a massive cannon. Dealing with normals is a mega pain, cuz the palette has no indication of the direction each "grey" is oriented to...
Gonna be tackling the scaling a bit more.

Putting Firestorm.Wall=yes and FirestormWall=yes on the hedgehogs didn't seem to work.
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Atomic_Noodles
Defense Minister


Joined: 05 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GenesisAria wrote:

I like acceleration and encourage others to use it if they can, as i see no persistent technical issues in the base game around it so far.


Yeah... ignore the advice of long-time veteran modders of the game. That'll turn out dandy.  Rolling Eyes
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most people here said they used acceleration without issue (outside isolated incidents). Just sayin'
Even if it's got like a one in several thousand chance of bugging out, it's not even worth worrying about imo.  It's like anyone's going to be playing competitively on these mods :)
It's just balancing loss for gain. Having one rhino get stuck after a hundred games (if it's even a persistent problem to begin with) isn't gonna be the end of the world XD
Any quirks caused by specific things can be worked around~
Just my 2 cents.

Does anyone have a decent F-35 voxel?  I'm in need of VTOL type jets (for airfields)... If anyone knows of any other aircraft voxels similarly that would be cool.

I've also been trying to mess with voxel scaling, but the scales box isn't working.  When i edit the scales, the bounds don't change... I'm trying to downscale a voxel for a sam truck, but it is not working...

Edit: Ahh, i'd forgotten guard ranged on the hedgehogs...
It seems that it likes screwing the frames though... i guess i'll have to duplicate the image for the hedgehog to match how many frames the firestorm walls normally have.

Also, how does the area repair thing work?  Am i supposed to be doing an attach effect or a negative damage areafire weapon?
Edit2: AttachEffect seems like the normal way, i'll try going with that.
Edit3: this seems to be getting more complicated than i expected... trying to get an aura that repairs units within range, but also does a spark sys on all of the units in range... not quite sure if this is supposed to go like an aoe weapon delivering attach effects, or an attach effect triggering attach effects on units or what... (i do realize it would be easier to just have a blanket aoe repair area, but i don't like hologram circles, and there needs to be some kind of indication of repairing going on)
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i got the repair thing sorta doing what i want, but it only seems to affect the docking tile on the service depot, and isn't doing everything in the cellspread...

also having made the barriers into firestorm wall, units drive over(through) them... how does one make them solid?

i've also been attempting to have land fires (caused by flamer and scorch) to have ground glows under them, but using bright hasn't worked, and i also attempted to have the light through a dummy particle system but i just got a lot of lag...

edit: in other news, more fixing stuff...
and tesla tanks have ammo now... so they can burst a lot of shots and then fire slower after that, as regen is slower than rof. (nabbed this style right out of earth2150) using the number pips.  handful of those are scary for that first burst of dps.

still having issues with scales
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Last edited by GenesisAria on Sun May 31, 2015 12:27 am; edited 1 time in total

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2015 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can use alphalight on fires, but that won't be orange - just normal bright white light.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have never used alphaimages before... is it just Alphaimage= as a tag pointing to an shp?

neat, definitely seems like good eye candy.  idealy i'd have orange glows from fires and stuff... really could spice up the game if there was a way to implement environmental glowing from stuff beyond just the combat and particle lighting...
alphaimages can't be animated...

edit: oh damn, i have no idea how i'd go about making a good soft light, scaling the lightpost light will give a pretty clean circle, that's not what i'm after.  it seems lightness 50, aka rgb 128 is no change to lightness... making a radial gradient smoothly without going beyond that, and still keeping the perspective will be a pain :<
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, AlphaImage= on the particle system of the fire. Alternatively, you can set OneFrameLight on it, but I'm not sure if that will work or what it will do exactly. That light would also be white however - there is no way to use CLDisable on animations or particle systems.
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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do you suggest fire Millenium?

OneFrameLight is simply particle light stuff that only seem work with spark types and frankly multiple instances are terrible for performance and stability.

CombatLight is also lag prone just less than particle native light.

Alpha making is rather easy if you think outside of the box.

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't you just stick the alphaimage right on the animation for the flame?  (i have duplicated the 3 fire anims as flame0x, with the added damage values using the decimal numbers, which work by the way, so i'd only want glows on the non-building fires)
I've never had lag issues with combat light, only with excessive spark particles, and my dummy spark particle system which broke and gave no light.
I know it's simple, it's just 256 greyscale, but the thing i don't know how to do is make a radial gradient.  Seems rather simple and silly but yeah. Derp, i found the radial gradient tool in gimp.  So that's one issue solved, i'll just make the gradient and then squish it till it matches the perspective.
It's already clear that there isn't a way to have coloured fire glows unless i did something like make a spawned invisible infantry that shot itself a lot or something. That would be mega awkward anyways, and you'd have a random healthbar on the fires.

But yeah, how does one go about doing an area heal on a building that applies light and/or sparks to those being healed?  I beleive i managed to get the heal light/sparks working but it's not going over an area, i figured i needed cellspread on the warhead...
And how do i make firestorm wall sections be always solid, so units can't drive over them? it treats them like a bb layer.

Edit: oh hey i found an f-35, some btr's and stuff! this pack by andrewmarley has so many goodies in it iono what i wanna use XD

Edit2: OH MY GOD THESE VOXELS ARE HUGE ... made a tunguska aa ingame and it was bigger than my conyard.
i really need a step by step rundown on how to scale voxels down...
Edit3: nevermind, i figured it out.. however this is gonna be a pain, because i gotta multiply all the numbers one by one :/
editing bounds in vxlse makes it so you don't have to reposition the hva for turrets etc

Edit4: solution to flak trooper problem! make a flak missile trooper! i've already buffed the ggi to do high damage and low rof to make them be more like javelin, and flak troopers hold the same looking launcher... (the actual model is probably more like a stinger though)

Giving legion an unarmed high capacity troop truck, and a sam truck.  sov tech has a shilka aa tank, both allies get an aa quad tank as well... robot control center grants uav surveillance special, which is a spy plane special, except it gets 2 uav's.  allied forces have f35's isnetad of black eagle.  Stuff is still a bit off a mess atm, but things are really rolling now that i have a decent amount of assets to work with.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ApolloTD wrote:
Why do you suggest fire Millenium?

Well, the original question was about how to stick light on fire #Tongue
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man i'm really on a roll now... I added a little light patrol boat to both sovs, and a missile destroyer to both allies.  I've slowed down a lot of tanks as well.

I also decided that, i have enough different voxels, that when i get to making the a10 strike, i'll probably just have 2 jets flyby with vulcan, and a 3rd fly by and drop some bombs.... will be way easier to make.  I have some voxels with the nose vulcan and others without.

Atm i'm at a point where things are still kinda messy, but once i get more things together and strung up right, i'll modify the main post and re-do the screenshots.
I should probably consider doing semi-detailed run-downs of arsenal before long... unit spotlights etc.

Well to that, my first stage of where i got to a decent landing is when i went and made those screenshots.  So when i get to the next landing where most of what i've added is working largely how i intend it to, then that's when i'll do my next step up in showing stuff.

I still haven't figured out the firestorm walls or aoe heal auras, but i'm gonna just leave those be for the moment, until i can get some more info on how those work.

One issue i come across semi-frequently, is that my AI's don't seem to want to build battle labs... They at times just get stuck where they stop building teams and such too.  Well that said, i haven't done anything to the ai other than add the alternate faction versions of wf's and battle labs and barracks.  Everything before the battle lab works normally though.  I don't really wanna do much to ai at this point, as long as it's moving and not getting stuck, then i'm cool with it for now.
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PillBox20
Commander


Joined: 28 Sep 2013
Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GenesisAria wrote:
Atm i'm at a point where things are still kinda messy, but once i get more things together.....

I don't want to take your words out of the contecst, but I always write down what I will do in my mod on either a list of papper or on my phone. Then start doing it one by one so that I don't do random stuff. This is more focused way of doing things.
I like the idea of 3 A10s with different weapons. Smile
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well i do keep notes, i have a txt where i scribble down things that need changes or fixes when i'm ingame, as well as write down things i particularly want to add... but sometimes it's just like "i want something kinda like, oh that voxel is perfect! maybe i could do this with it"

I just meant there's a lot of stuff i've been throwing in and changing and not everything is tested or even somewhat balanced yet.
And the ares prerequisites aren't working 100%. It seems almost as if i have to steal the specific building in order to get the assets, stealing a conyard and then building factories doesn't always seem to work.

Edit: i think i just figured out the chrono lag on units.... i think it's based on the unit's speed.  i got a speed crate and my legionnaires seem to get out of being frozen pretty quick... that's sweet.  this means i could probably make a unit without any lag if i give it a really big speed number.
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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, after thinking about the A-10 thing a bit, i may have to do only 1 with vulcan and 2 with bombs instead... reason being, is that i don't know any way to have each plane play one sound for the full burst instead of per shot.
If there's only one plane, then i can make the sound limit to 1 and you'll only hear the first... making sure the sound only lasts as long as the burst does.

Does anyone know of a soviet tech structure? Like a tesla lab or something like that?  I'd like to have something more befitting of the soviet union faction.  I could use the beta sov battle lab, but if i did i'd need another battle lab for allied tech division, cuz that's where i'm using it atm.  I i was thinking maybe i could use the radar dome or master barracks from yr argentina but iono.. i might want to replace the radar building for one(or both) of the sovs...


Edit:
hmm... is there a way to remove the volume normalization or the sound rendering limit?  it's kind of annoying when there's like a dozen sounds on screen and it just stops loading more sounds...

Edit2: i'm gonna be picking away at this slowly for the next little while, been a little harder to get in the mood for ra2 stuff, just put in a day here and there.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can use Control=loop for sounds so they do not restart playing for each shot, but instead play again when they end, making one continuous... well, loop.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still putting specifics ahead of the unit hierarchy eh? Find roles for the aircraft first...

Obviously no one wants to add all 27 aircraft currently in use by the EU, no benefit from multiple similar choices. Right now you should be deciding what roles to fill, like the A10 is traditionally a hunting aircraft, so would you also want a dedicated bomber? If you keep the Harrier, what's the premium replacement? Who gets uniquely subversive aircraft like dropping tactical nukes or chemical gas bombs?

My mod has F16's, B117's and A10's useable by the Americans, that's it: 2 aircraft with distinct roles, and 1 generally well-rounded base unit. Would my mod be infinitely better if I gave them 3 more aircraft? No...

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, uhm... the issue with using loop for places where it's not designed to be continuous until stopped it causes... things to happen.
My issue with the sounds is that if i wanted 2 A10's firing vulcan (seeing as i can't use gattling) i'd either have to have the sound spam for every shot, or make it limit 2 s the first one will end up making the sound overlaying twice until it's over before another one starts... Thus i'm only able to have 1 vulcan A10 and make sure that the firing goes for the same duration as the sound (leaving a silent gap at the end of the sound to ensure it doesn't play again).  Look at videos of A-10 vulcan flyby's you'll see what i mean and why i want to have a specific sound for the whole firing.
As far as sound limits go, if you have like 20 sounds or something playing in total it stops accepting new sounds to be rendered, which is just annoying.  And also how it makes sounds quieter when there's multiple sounds.

The premium aircraft that the Allied Forces get over the normal Harrier, is F-35's.  That way they can still be VTOL.  I originally had it where sovs can build MiGs for capturing an allied airfield, but i'll probably have to think up a replacement for that as something VTOL.

The A-10's are going to be strictly for airstrike special power, and only for Allied Forces.  I don't intend on giving Sovs any aircraft from airfields other than captured fields and Boris/Natasha airstrikes.

The plan for the A-10's is to have 3 planes, one for vulcan (because of the sound issue), and 2 for bomb dropping (their weapons will be most effective against vehicles, and they'll fly pretty quick so they can be used to take out tanks).  If i add any additional aircraft, it'll be for special powers only.  At some point down the road i might do a B2 with a large scale bomb (not nuke), or small carpet bombing... not sure how much large scale weapons i want.  Ideally less is better.

But yeah, i'm finding it hard to progress lately because of voxels being a pain in my arse, and various things not behaving right... Like missing buildups for certain theatres, voxels not loading or loading incorrectly and trying to deal with relative hva positioning of a scaled voxel (that one's particularly annoying), missing damage frames of a bunker i added... Firestorm wall segmenting logic for hedgehogs making them not block vehicles, yadda yadda.  I mixed a chassis with some turrets and the rest of the ifv turrets to get a less dumb looking ifv, though because the game won't load voxels i put in an ecache over the ra2.mix files (even though i can do it with shp's overwrite with the same name, it won't work with voxels), so i make the fv(X).vxl into ifv(X).vxl, and then it don't show ingame grrrr.  In general things being very unnecessarily difficult because of the way the engine handles things  Confused
So i get to it when i feel bullheaded enough to take it on.
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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voxels are small, just rename the new version and use Image=newvoxel.
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Algerian Major
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Drinking Vodka with Lenin, Stalin and Putin

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

for the soviets give them a YAK not the ra one but the real ones they are VTOL as the YAK-38 which dropes napalm bombs ...

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GenesisAria
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 10 Mar 2015
Location: Canaderp

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
Voxels are small, just rename the new version and use Image=newvoxel.
That's what i usually do.. maybe there's a hardcode issue with ifv.vxl . . . i'll have to try giving it another name again to see if it's an issue with ifv.vxl or an issue with the hardcodings with [FV]

Algerian Major wrote:
for the soviets give them a YAK not the ra one but the real ones they are VTOL as the YAK-38 which dropes napalm bombs ...
Ohh, i probably should have looked into soviet/russian vtol's, the only vtol jets i'd heard of before were the harrier and f-35.
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Algerian Major
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Drinking Vodka with Lenin, Stalin and Putin

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think a YAK-141 "FREESTYLE" is a good VTOL fighter

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unknown_men
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 09 Apr 2015

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know very few VTOL here, i have many thing for your choice:

- Lockheed XV-4 Hummingbird
- Trek Aerospace Dragonfly
- Germany VFW VAK 191B
- Yakovlev series: Yak-36, Yak-38, Yak-141
- V-22 Osprey Air-cruiser
- Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II
- All Harrier series
- Dassault Aviation Mirage IIIV

and more...

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