Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:12 am Post subject:
Your thoughts on Red Alert 2?
What is your thought on original Red Alert 2? Does it feel completed? Balanced? I'm just curious. For me, I feel that original Red Alert 2 is quite not balanced because soviets have stronger armor, plus the player can just steamroll with Apoc Tanks, or Prism Tanks to destroy the bases. There is no mixed force feeling (various kind of units in a team, most of them are a team of single kind units.) _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
To be honest the whole game is off balanced, from every point. Weather storms, tesla weapons, iron curtain are so lame. I can understand the ion cannon stylr in TS, but RA2? TS is a syfi stylr. I personally believe in real style weapons. Yes the tesla could be a real weapon, but there are limits _________________ I am authorized to send out the TMP Studio, PM ME IF YOU WANT IT And check this out, these were sent to me for help with terrain and zdata help along with TMP Studio/Builder
^^Red Alert lost it's touch with reality after RA1. But RA2 was never meant to be completely serious, thus cartoonish strange things work in there.
Some like that, some don't.
For me it doesn't.
It might have been better if there was right from the start only crazy, funny cartoonish stuff to make this a fun C&C. But the half-assed attempt in being serious ruins this for me and gives it neither a good atmosphere nor a good gameplay. Just silly.
Red Alert 1 had some crazy stuff too, but the story, characters, actors and ingame style gave it still a quite significant realistic touch, thus made it easier to get used to that universe. _________________ SHP Artist of Twisted Insurrection: Nod buildings
RA2 was always my favorite C&C game, followed closely by TS and maybe RA3. I think the original RA2 feels very complete and balanced. Though I'm sure competitive online players disagree. But I only played some skirmish and mostly comp stomp matches with my brother. 2 humans vs. 6 AI players, with superweapons enabled. We used to play that thing for years. Good times
Some minor things in RA2 are annoying, like the fact the V3 is completely and utterly useless since the missile can be shot down so easily. The rocketeers are way too powerful in masses. Of course the prism tanks can demolish a base quickly, but somehow I felt they were balanced. At least kinda. They didn't damage tanks too much. The allied GI is my favorite infantry unit of any C&C game, love how powerful they can be at elite level. Tesla troopers were cool too.
YR messed things up completely though, in favor of the allies. Battlefortress + 4 guardian GIs + 1 seal. It's bit stupid cause it could have been balanced it they just made the unit extremely slow so you can't play the annoying back and forth game with it. I keep hearing Yuri's side was completely unbalanced as well, though not having played YR too much I can't really comment on that. I imagine playing against the AI as Yuri would have been a joke since they'd just drive in the range of your mind control towers and units. That's why we always stuck with the original RA2, it was simply alot better and more polished than YR. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:57 pm Post subject:
Yuri is quite a joke since they can make mind defenses that if enemy units come, bam they are your. (Unless they destroy your towers or power plants.) So baically you can throw all of the mind controlled units back to the enemy base to destroy them.
When I play as Yuri, I always win easily by making towers and save up the units in the back of my base until its big enough to destroy them. _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
I found red alert 2 to be quite balanced, when playing online it was a stand off most matches. You could never say "build this XXX unit and you will win the game cause they are OP." There were a few problems I had encountered and these would be them:
- Yuri had to many Mind control units, it should have been more limited.
- Tesla Tanks were useless due to lack of range and cost too high
- Grand cannons range was a little overkill
Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Location: Tiberium Research Center N27
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:50 am Post subject:
I think after playing through Red Alert 3, I started looking at Red Alert 2 as a serious game. Though, to be honest, obvious unexplained silliness aside, Red Alert 2 is a very good game all around. _________________ DUNK! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:51 am Post subject:
Tesla Tank is also easy to kill, but yeah I agreed, they are pricey.
No idea why Allies Main SW is giant Tesla coil, but probably they added it just for craziness of game. I would prefer to have Allies main SW replaced to something different like a big cannon that can launch
dedestructive shells or something. It seems to fit Allies feeling the best than being able to control the weather. _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
The Weather Control could just as easily be Soviet I suppose, but it goes along with the Prism Tower, Mirage Tank & Dolphin theme of the Allies using/controlling nature.
I missed the campaign progression map from RA1 though. I think that thing really held the campaign together and provided an obvious sense of global progress instead of simply playing random missions for stories sake. QUICK_EDIT
Tesla Tank is also easy to kill, but yeah I agreed, they are pricey.
No idea why Allies Main SW is giant Tesla coil, but probably they added it just for craziness of game. I would prefer to have Allies main SW replaced to something different like a big cannon that can launch
dedestructive shells or something. It seems to fit Allies feeling the best than being able to control the weather.
It was something to do how the Weather Control Device was a "Clean" Weapon. It didn't leave radiation or pollute the Land much like the Nuke did.
The Allies had a Clean and Efficient Motif
The Soviets had a dirty and rugged One to show how much they've fallen when the Allies disarmed them or something... _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
And Yuri is even more dirtier than Soviets, because uses mind control, cloning technology, mutation, hallucinogen gases, virus gases, enslavement, ... _________________ PPM Halloween Season 2021 QUICK_EDIT
idk how people can say RA1 was realistic at all... not as zany as RA2 but RA1 is equally stupid with worse acting. Von Esling, Tanya, Stalin? Christ. And the vehicle designs are pathetic. _________________ Victory! QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 22 Nov 2010 Location: Iszkaszentgyorgy, Hungary
Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:50 am Post subject:
Seriously what's more realistic in RA1 than a bunch of Flame towers and Tesla coils? Which can instantly fire 3 electric charges. _________________ "If you didn't get angry and mad and frustrated, that means you don't care about the end result, and are doing something wrong." - Greg Kroah-Hartman
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Past C&C projects: Attacque Supérior (2010-2019); Valiant Shades (2019-2021)
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WeiDU mods: Random Graion Tweaks | Graion's Soundsets
Maintainance: Extra Expanded Enhanced Encounters! | BGEESpawn
Contributions: EE Fixpack | Enhanced Edition Trilogy | DSotSC (Trilogy) | UB_IWD | SotSC & a lot more... QUICK_EDIT
No side is completely overpowered, they are counterable. Yuri is close to OP in YR and Soviets become kind of lame, but apart from that, each side has both good and bad units.
(Unbalanced units OP: Prism, can kill structures too easy and at a distance and the Elite one owns everything, Desolator deploy, Grand Cannon, Psychic Tower.
Bad ones: V3, Siege Chopper, Brute, Typhoon Sub)
And I find it ironic that you say allies are "efficient and clean" because that is a Tesla Tank line
One issue with the graphics is inconsistent shadows and overbright but that is minor (TS on contrast was too muted)
Soviets on the ra2 campaign were very "oh we are evulz" while in YR were more portrayed sympathetically since the new bad was Yuri. _________________ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:03 am Post subject:
I feel that RA2 infantries is a bit too big. They seem to be taller than the tanks. Anyone feel the same? Maybe I should downsize all of the infantries by 10% just to make it a bit more realistic in the size. _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:51 am Post subject:
Zero18 wrote:
I feel that RA2 infantries is a bit too big. They seem to be taller than the tanks. Anyone feel the same? Maybe I should downsize all of the infantries by 10% just to make it a bit more realistic in the size.
C&C and proper scaling have never been a good combination. Hell, look at the TS Mammoth Mk2 that's supposed to be the biggest land unit, but is outsized by half of all units (and not considering the FS CABAL Core Defender which would even dwarf the Mammoth). QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 07 Apr 2013 Location: Hecthor Doomhammer Streaming Service HQ
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:16 am Post subject:
I always enjoyed RA2 and YR as the best of the older games.
In terms of balance both games left a lot undone, but luckily mods are there to take care of it.
for instance Yuri had 1 sub for anti-ship and siege, but nothing else. no AA ship or anything. And I am as surprised as anyone to see the Squid still a part of the Soviets.
Nor do i understand the use of the siege choppers. They're shot down too easy and once you have them deployed, they're gone in no time.
The Battlefortress was a fun, but extremely costly unit if played well. I made me change from playing as USA to UK instantly.
Also in RA2, I didn't understand why anyone would have it in their right mind to use Terrorists, so countryspecific, it left much to discuss.
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:59 am Post subject:
Hecthor Doomhammer wrote:
Also in RA2, I didn't understand why anyone would have it in their right mind to use Terrorists, so countryspecific, it left much to discuss.
Flak Track + 5 Terrorists + Crazy Ivan bomb on each Terrorist before loading them = a very, VERY nasty surprise if it can get next to a target. Especially early game when defences aren't that good yet. On Naval maps, it can be more nastier when you load 4 of these Flak Tracks into a Amphibious Transport (or the same for Libya with 4 Demo Trucks + Crazy Ivan bombs). QUICK_EDIT
I remember a Terrorist + Ivan Bomb on a Fully Loaded Half Track would usually kill a ConYard in one hit where as a Demo Truck would only leave it on Yellow HP. _________________ ~ Excelsior ~ QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Location: Dordrecht, the Netherlands
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:00 pm Post subject:
Atomic_Noodles wrote:
I remember a Terrorist + Ivan Bomb on a Fully Loaded Half Track would usually kill a ConYard in one hit where as a Demo Truck would only leave it on Yellow HP.
Afaik because Demo Trucks do less damage to large structures, while Crazy Ivan bombs where designed to bust heavier structures. Might be wrong though. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 10 Dec 2012 Location: I'm too busy conquering the world!
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:44 pm Post subject:
Dutchygamer wrote:
Atomic_Noodles wrote:
I remember a Terrorist + Ivan Bomb on a Fully Loaded Half Track would usually kill a ConYard in one hit where as a Demo Truck would only leave it on Yellow HP.
Afaik because Demo Trucks do less damage to large structures, while Crazy Ivan bombs where designed to bust heavier structures. Might be wrong though.
Yes, because terrorists are so easy to kill. But Demo trucks is hard to control, since if they are in your base and when you kill it, it nukes your base as well too. While terrorists + Crazy Ivan can be stopped and it does nothing in your base if they are killed before they go around and blow up. _________________ Mod Leader and founder of World Domination
Cartoony and lost the realistic ambiance of the first game but still a fun game to play.
Balance issues include:
- OP Rocketeers (overused in masses)
- OP Main Battle Tanks (overused in masses)
- OP Yuri
- OP Grand Cannon (just turtle)
- OP Black Eagles (unstoppable in large groups)
- UP Tank Destroyers (clumsy, overpriced)
- OP Mirage Tanks (they laugh at Tank Destroyers) QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:37 am Post subject:
It has easily been a decade+ since I've played RA2 (or, hey, unmodded YR), so my assessment might be clouded by retrospect and the careless mind of a teenager. But what I did notice:
* Tank rushes worked far too well.
* Grand Cannons were overpowered (although, I guess, they were okay if you were into that towerdefense-y style of play)
* Elite upgrades were overpowered, especially for tanks - something like trippled rate of fire, doubled damage, self-heal...
* GIs were overpowered when deployed. By extension, this made the Airborne/PD abilities vastly overpowered too. You could ring an enemy base with air-dropped GIs, bit by bit, and there was not much the AI could do against it, except maybe Britain.
* Mirage Tanks had no damage mitigation against any type of target. Also not very balanced.
* Prism Tanks - just straight-out too much damage
* Tesla Tanks - just straight-out too much damage
So, all in all, yes, there was some kind of balance in this game, but it did not involve very many units, but just the overpowered ones, which could somehow cancel each other out, sometimes.
I also didn't dig the cartoonish atmosphere of RA2 vis-a-vis my experience with TS (I hadn't played RA1 at the time). Part of that is owed, I believe, to graphics - as some have pointed out, RA2's infantry is oversized next to the vehicles. The Grizzly looks about the size of a lawn tractor next to a GI.
There are, of course, other design decisions that make RA2 appear less "serious" than RA1 or TS. Some of those are limited by their nature to the campaign (e.g. Romanov's antics in the Soviet briefing videos), but others appear within gameplay and some of those overlap with the balance issues pointed out above. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
I recall being excited as young teen.. I got RA2 near the launch day but had some difficulties because of 9/11 the game was placed on hold due to the original box art featuring the twin towers. v - v
Regardless of that, I looked forward to the new modding acapabilities. Since Tiberium sun continued the trend of .INI modding I was excited.
As a game, yes the cartoony shift was abrupt from the days of RA1 theme. I enjoyed the game overall. Granted I did feel buildings were very fragile compared to Prism tanks and paratroopers. but none of that was front and center since I quickly went to to try modding it once XCC and tools were available. ^__^ _________________ Delirium.. QUICK_EDIT
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:03 pm Post subject:
Good point, I should also do that.
Also:
UC structures in general were also overpowered. Arguably less so than some other units, but the only economical way to counter them was artillery, aircraft, or base defenses (and those were only marginally good for the purpose). Perhaps not really overpowered in terms of a gameplay feature, but certainly beyond a credible or reasonable combat simulation. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
Could you post the strengths here as well? I need to balance RA2 as much as I can for my Supreme mods _________________ One and only developer of the Command & Conquer Dune "C&C D" mod.
m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done.
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:09 am Post subject:
The economy seemed to be well balanced, between the sides, but also relative to your production speed and to how many units/buildings you'd need to play succesfully. In a normal match, there isn't commonly a time where you will be biting your nails, waiting until the next load of ore comes in so you can finally do something again. Of course, when Yuri came around, it became significantly mismatched between the sides - you have to actively disrupt Yuri's mining operations to prevent him from completely outproducing everyone.
Base defenses (except the Grand Cannon) seemed to be well balanced, especially the higher tier and the AA defenses.
The game was fast-paced, especially vis-a-vis TS. It's not really my thing, but many people like that. _________________
Mao Zedong wrote:
Our mission, unfinished, may take a thousand years.
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Your thoughts on Red Alert 2?
