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Must add the following in Dawn of the Tiberium Age
Moderators: Dawn of the Tiberium Age Staff
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JeagerEX12
Soldier


Joined: 22 May 2016

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 6:14 pm    Post subject:  Must add the following in Dawn of the Tiberium Age Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, I noticed that there is no following units, structures, and other stuff for this mod.

GDI: (I think the GDI could be either based on United States Army or the United Nations)
- Heavy Gunner
- Stratofortress

NOD:
- Ghost
- Scorpion Tank (Replacement for Light Tank. Not to be confused with the GLA Scorpion from Generals)
- Chemical Tank (With a different design, not the one from the TD mod Biowar)

ALLIES: (In RA1, the allies faction is based on European Union and was not allied with America until RA2.)
- Hawker Hurricane or The Spitfire (Alternative to Yak. Two of them are British WWII fighters)
- Eurofighter
- Sniper
- Lynx (As a replacement for the weird Longbow instead of Apache since the NOD had it)
- Spy  
- Mobile Anti-Aircraft Gun (A new updated Mobile Flak)
- Landkruzer

SOVIET: (Most Soviet units are heavily armored, but slower)
- BRDM-2 Scout Car
- BTR-90 APC (Replacement for the unarmed Heavy APC)
- Heavy Artillery
- Mobile SAM
- Shotgun trooper
- Molotov
- Chitzkoi (There's Volkov, but why no Chitzkoi)
- Badger Bomber
- Havoc

For both GDI and NOD:
- Hovercraft Transport (I know there is one, but not buildable in skirmish)

For both Allies and Soviet:
- RA1 Transport (Naval vessel)

For all factions
- Supply Truck

Other Future Updates
- Tanya must have a built limit to one.
- Faster build
- Capturable tech buildings other than Tech Hospital and Experimental Lab, but we need more tech buildings like the Armory, Warehouse, and Airport.
- Building infiltration.
- The Allies must build kennels and attack dogs.
- Allies and NOD can build runway for their specific aircraft.  
- Mobile SAM, Heavy Artillery, Hover MLRS and the Beam Cannon can be built in Skirmish and no longer obtaining from crates and capturing an experimental lab.
- The NOD Apache can fire missiles and lasers.
- All Chinook helicopters will have a better redesign.

Bug fixes
- Gave me an error message and closes by itself while I'm playing skirmish with an 8 player maps such as Tiber.

I'm sorry for reposting because I've not logged in yet.

Thank you

Last edited by JeagerEX12 on Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:21 pm; edited 8 times in total

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^Rampastein
Rampastring


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Location: Gensokyo

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JeagerEX12 wrote:
Hi, I noticed that there is no following units, structures, and other stuff for this mod.

Yeah. And most of them aren't meant to be in the mod, and so they'll never be in the mod.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
GDI:
- Marksman
- Helicarrier

NOD:
- Laser Infantry
- Tiberium Sapper (NOD counterpart of GDI Grenadier, but throw a chemical grenades)
- Infiltrator

ALLIES:
- Delta Force
- Sniper

What would these units actually do? How would they improve the gameplay?

The Commando already works pretty well as a "marksman", having longer range than other infantry and killing basic infantry with a single shot. Same with Tanya and the suggested "Sniper" for Allies.

Nod already has a counterpart to the GDI Grenadier in the form of the Flamethrower infantry. It doesn't function exactly the same, but it's not supposed to, either.

JeagerEX12 wrote:

ALLIES:
- Gap Generator
- Field Mechanic
- Spy
- Thief
- Mobile Gap Generator

We'd include these, but the Tiberian Sun engine does not properly support them.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- F-15 Strike Eagle (fighter jet that is alternative to mig)
- P-40 Warhawk fighter
- F-22 Raptor
- B-1 Lancer
- Commanche Chopper (As a replacement for Longbow, because it kind of reminds me of a TS Harpy chopper)

We're happy with the Longbow's functionality. Its graphics are pretty bad, but we'd rather make better graphics for it than replace the whole unit.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Radar Jammer

Nowadays' high resolutions make the radar and with it, the radar jammer pretty useless. And it's not supported by the TS engine either.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
SOVIET:
- Armored Car (Alternative to Allied Ranger, GDI Humvee, and Nod Buggy)

Soviet isn't meant to have an alternative to the Allied Ranger, GDI Humvee and Nod Buggy. Soviet focuses on slow-but-powerful units and is stronger in late-game than in early-game. Their lack of a fast anti-infantry unit early on is an intentional design decision.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Shotgun trooper

What would it bring to the Soviet arsenal that the Grenadier, Flamethrower infantry and Shock Trooper don't already cover?

JeagerEX12 wrote:
Chitzkoi (There's Volkov, but why no Chitzkoi)

Volkov is the Soviet special unit, comparable to the GDI X-O Powersuit, Nod Cyborg and Allied Chrono tank.

While Chitzkoi would fit the Soviet arsenal as an anti-infantry unit, the Tiberian Sun engine doesn't have the dog leap logic that RA1 has; in RA1 Chitzkoi has far longer leap range than the regular dogs. In DTA it'd have to move right next to enemy infantry just like regular dogs, and so we unfortunately don't think Chitzkoi would be interesting enough for a special unit in DTA.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Agent (Similar to Spy, but its armed with silencer)
- Blackfire Bomber

A Spy wouldn't fit the heavy, direct-combat-focused Soviet arsenal well. They also already have decent aircraft with the Yak and Mig.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Forward Command Center (Structure that is featured in missions, but unbuildable in skirmish)

We already have it and use it in singleplayer and co-op missions. There's no need to have it in multiplayer.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
For both GDI and NOD:
- Hovercraft Transport (I know there is one, but not buildable in skirmish)

For both Allies and Soviet:
- RA1 Transport (Naval vessel)

We'd love to add transports, but the Tiberian Sun engine doesn't allow ships (vehicles) to transport vehicles. So if we added a buildable transport, it'd only be able to carry infantry, which would confuse players and rarely be worth it.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
For all factions
- Supply Truck

What would it do?

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Hijacker and a NOD Missile Launcher can build more than one.

Both the hijacker and the special SSM Launcher are powerful special units. They'd be overpowered if you could build multiple of them.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Tanya must have a built limit to one instead of three.

This I agree with. I don't know if the rest of the staff thinks the same though.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Faster build

Increase game speed or build more factories.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Start without shroud

This is already there. Enable "Revealed map" in the game lobby.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Capturable tech buildings other than Tech Hospital.

Some maps (Tiber, The Experiment Lab at least) have capturable buildings that give you secret units when you capture them.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Buildable Flak Hovercraft for all factions.

Why? It'd mainly serve the purpose of anti-air, and all 4 factions already have mobile anti-air.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- Building infiltration.

This would come with the spy. However the TS engine doesn't fully support it.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- The Allies must build kennels and attack dogs.

The Allies wouldn't have anything to gain from kennels and attack dogs. They already have powerful anti-infantry and scouts (Rangers).

JeagerEX12 wrote:
- More civilian buildings and vehicles such as fire station, police, statues and civilian aircraft.
- Police units like SWAT, Cruisers, etc.

We'll gladly have these if someone makes fitting graphics.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
Bug fixes
- Gave me an error message and closes by itself while I'm playing skirmish with an 8 player maps.

It's likely that it's a random Tiberian Sun engine bug that we're not able to do anything about.

JeagerEX12 wrote:
I'm sorry for reposting because I've not logged in yet.

No problem. I removed the other topic.

When suggesting additions to the game, you need to keep in mind that those additions need to fit within the factions' existing arsenals. New units should
a) be different from all already included units
b) not make existing units useless or obsolete in comparison
c) not make the factions less unique, like adding a Humvee/Buggy/Ranger counterpart to the Soviets or a Grenadier to Nod would do.

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drive
Grenadier


Joined: 11 May 2013
Location: In a moving Trompete.

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hello JeagerEX12,

I noticed the most of your ideas are from Renegade X , cnc reborn and others. Cool

In short,

The main problem some of the stuff isnt possible dou to engine limitations, other stuff is nice in idea, but it would be unbalance the game too much, an other problem is our team dont have many grafic makers for shp and other kind of stuff.

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Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

^Rampastein wrote:

JeagerEX12 wrote:

For both Allies and Soviet:
- RA1 Transport (Naval vessel)

We'd love to add transports, but the Tiberian Sun engine doesn't allow ships (vehicles) to transport vehicles. So if we added a buildable transport, it'd only be able to carry infantry, which would confuse players and rarely be worth it.


RA:APB (The standalone renegade mod not the map) does this and it is a much better way of transporting infantry across water than the Chinook.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Are you really going to compare an FPS to an RTS concerning infantry transport? Confused

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Isaac_The_Madd
AA Infantry


Joined: 16 Jul 2015

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My point is if the noobs can figure it out there people can figure it out here.

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In DTA a naval transport for just infantry wouldn't be useful enough to be worth being buildable (and it's always best to have as few useless buildable things as possible).

Another thing to mention is that the only way to make it possible for infantry to enter it would be by making it amphibious and amphibious units have very bad pathfinding in DTA: they're only able to move towards the location they were ordered to if there are no obstacles in the way and if there are, they won't move at all (meaning that you need to manually navigate them around any obstacles).
This is happening because of a work-around that was done to improve the pathfinding for ships, which used to have this problem instead of amphibious units (TS doesn't really support actual naval units after all). So for this reason it's best to for controllable amphibious units to remain rare by being only obtainable from crates or as a special unit in a mission or such.

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Last edited by Bittah Commander on Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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ApolloTD
Commander


Joined: 19 Nov 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sadly most of those suggestions would only turn the sides more carbon copy of the other or else add redundant clutter units.

It's the whole logic of...hey Allies have cruiser so Soviets should also have, while missile sub is actually the Soviet's cruiser counterpart.

Plus things like laser tank/laser infantry are pushing it technologically for Nod as this is supposed to be early age. In Tiberian Sun timeframe it makes more sense to have lasers so widespread common arsenal but not here.

You'll have to outline more reasons to put things than just base them as counterparts as some of original design is intentional lacks.

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JeagerEX12
Soldier


Joined: 22 May 2016

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

First post updated.

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