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The upcoming Hashtag system (aka Key Words)
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:48 am    Post subject:   The upcoming Hashtag system (aka Key Words)
Subject description: A better way to organize PPM forums in the future.
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Hello everyone. Today we've started to implement our future Hashtag (#) /Key Words system to the forum. It adds Key Words, which you can already see when you post a new message by clicking at New Topic, Post Reply and Edit Post buttons.

The objective of this system is to allow us to organize the topics of the forum in a smarter way and use this organization in our favor.

In the future, this system will allow us to do things like:

- Having forums organized by one or multiples hashtags. I.e.: ppmforums.com/viewforum.php?k=#MySampleMod could have all topics in Public Mod Announcements, PPM News Network, Media Hut, Editing Forums and even beyond about MySampleMod that has #MySampleMod as key words. And there is more: you could also have ppmforums.com/viewforum.php?k=#MySampleMod#GDI#Units that could list all GDI units from MySampleMod.

- Visualize resources with a certain feature with hashtags. I.e.: What about taking a look at all #Voxels that are #Tanks and are #DoubleBarrelled. Or you could also get #Voxels #Aircraft #F-16 if our resources are properly hashtagged. Such search could also be done at the PPM's frontpage.

- We could organize our news in a better way: I.e.: which topics from our PPM News Network are related to Red Alert 2 or Tiberian Sun or whatever other game we cover? Which topics in our News are related to Twisted Insurrection? Hashtags will give us a great hand on organizing this data.


I think these features are more than enough to justify why we are implementing this feature. While key words are not new in other internet forums, PPM is slowly implementing a different system. The reason why we use # is to force expressions to be fully matched. So, we could prevent problems such as partial matches. I.e.: #RA being detected inside #OpenRA, while both games are different or #D2K being detected in #CnCD2K, which is a mod for YR that has no relationship with the Dune franchise.

The other differences are:

- Key words may have to be approved by moderators/administrators to bring topics to a Hashtag topic listing. This should prevent the abuse of this feature by bots or bad mannered users.

- We may have a 'Hashtag Forums' as explained in the first motivational sample, however, we don't know where, the users who visit this Hashtag Forum would post their replies, since topics must be attached to a real forum, while they do not need to be attached into a Hashtag one. Note that these Hashtag Forums are public forums that are not listed by default in our forum listing. Avoid hashtaging private stuff.

- It may affect how we organize our news and our RSS feeds.




This feature is not active yet. It is a work in  progress. At the moment, we are able to add these key words to our posts, but you can only see them when you edit the topic. We'll do some progress with it in the next days, which may render some instability to the forums. If something wrong happens, press back and try again in few seconds.

If you find any bugs in the forum during the development of this feature, please, report to me (using the forums or email that you can see in our frontpage)

Key Words: #KeyWords #HashTag #Forum #News #PPMForums #HashtagForums 

Last edited by Banshee on Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:33 am; edited 1 time in total

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Bittah Commander
Defense Minister


Joined: 21 May 2003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a nice idea, but it might not be practical to allow completely custom keywords because this can result in confusion. For example, some people could use #DoubleBarreled as the keyword for their unit, while others use #DualBarrels and people searching for one of these keywords will then not find everything they're looking for.

So something needs to be done to ensure that people will use consistent keywords.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I'll eventually try to do a synonymous table of some kind. But that's something for the future.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress Report: We are now displaying hashtags on posts and moderators already have the ability to approve/reject them. All they need to do is to click in a hand icon that is in the left of the "Key Words" text (which will not be showed to non-moderators).

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, nobody else has any kind of suggestions or ideas for this feature?



Update: New posts from administrators and moderators with Key Words are automatically approved.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: The upcoming Hashtag system (aka Key Words) Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
- We may have a 'Hashtag Forums' as explained in the first motivational sample, however, we don't know where, the users who visit this Hashtag Forum would post their replies, since topics must be attached to a real forum, while they do not need to be attached into a Hashtag one.


What is your reason behind this? I personally would find a topic out in the open (literally hashtopics would be that) confusing.

Keywords are also being quoted. Notsure if that's good or bad.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is your reason behind this? I personally would find a topic out in the open (literally hashtopics would be that) confusing.


Hashtag forums are not real forums. They look like forums, but they only collect topics with a certain hashtag. It would be interesting if people could visit them and interact like it was in a real forum.

However, posts stored in the database in such a way that they are obligated to be inside a real forum. So, yea, topics in the open are confusing for the user and for the database as well. I guess these Hashtag forums will end up without a New Topic button.

Quote:
Keywords are also being quoted. Notsure if that's good or bad.


Key words being quoted is a bug. I'll fix it asap.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: Key words are no longer being quoted.

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AlexB
Commander


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How is this supposed to be used? Are there any experiences or Best Practices yet?

Should I tag every post as #Ares, with maybe a tag for each big features talked about, or is that only meaningful for important posts, like announcements, research results, solutions to problems? Should for example research be tagged #Research, plus what was researched or investigated, like #TiberianSun #Voxels? Or is this only for posts that might end on the news, and research does not?
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How is this supposed to be used? Are there any experiences or Best Practices yet?


That's a great question. I admit that I'm still working on a best practices for it.

So far, here's what I have:

- Hashtags starts with capital letters. There shall be no spaces inside each hashtag and no symbols such as {}[]()'"<>*%&$^~´`/\;:.,|

- Hashtags may have multiples words. Words starts with capital letters and the remaining are non-capital. Use multiples words in a single hashtag only if it requires these words to make sense. I.e.: #RedAlert1 is ok, because the Red Alert 1 is the name of the game and Red alone or Alert alone or 1 alone wouldn't make any sense. However #AresNews or #ForumNews (which I was originally using) is not ok, because each word alone would make sense as a separate hashtag.

- There shall be no abbreviations. I.e: RA1, TS, TD and D2k may stand for a lot of things, so use their full names such as #RedAlert1, #TiberianSun, #TiberianDawn, #Dune2000.

- Insults and generic words are not acceptable as hashtags. I've already seen people using #Stupid, #Jerk and other things. It won't be tolerated and, if necessary, we'll cut the account's ability to post key words if the user insists on hashtaging this kind of thing.

- Do not hashtag every post. Only those who may be searched for the following reasons:

-> News/Announcements about some project, site or game or Progress Report on projects.
-> Posted resource.
-> Solution for modding/codding/graphical/mapping problems.

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Graion Dilach
Defense Minister


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Iszkaszentgyörgy, Hungary

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
- Insults and generic words are not acceptable as hashtags. I've already seen people using #Stupid, #Jerk and other things. It won't be tolerated and, if necessary, we'll cut the account's ability to post key words if the user insists on hashtaging this kind of thing.


lol, seriously? That sounds zlixine-level stupid. Laughing
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temp
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 17 Oct 2015

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graion Dilach wrote:
Banshee wrote:
- Insults and generic words are not acceptable as hashtags. I've already seen people using #Stupid, #Jerk and other things. It won't be tolerated and, if necessary, we'll cut the account's ability to post key words if the user insists on hashtaging this kind of thing.


lol, seriously? That sounds zlixine-level stupid. Laughing


Oh , then #Graion_Dilach_GENIUS is acceptable.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@zlixine: Nobody would search this kind of tag, so no, it is not acceptable either. This is why other people are not seeing the key words you've added to your post.

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
- Do not hashtag every post. Only those who may be searched for the following reasons:

-> News/Announcements about some project, site or game or Progress Report on projects.
-> Posted resource.
-> Solution for modding/codding/graphical/mapping problems.

Suggestion: allow only moderators to post hashtags.

That should cover the 3 mentioned cases well enough, without giving every guest, troll, bot, multi-account and other tiny user to spam the forum with new hashtags.
If there is an experienced modder who isn't moderator (most are due to their own mod subforum) and found out a solution, a moderator can surely help out setting the required hashtag.

For things in subforums like SHPs, VXL, Research Center it might be even redundant to set hashtags. The forum search for keywords in the topics/titles should be enough.
When someone names his VXL topic "my epic tank" and then also sets a hashtag #MyEpicTank, there isn't a lot more value given by the hashtag.

In SHP, VXL subforums it might be even good to offer only a limited number of hashtags, to have in future a more refined search. (Users are not allowed to create new hashtags)
e.g.
#GDI, #NOD, #SOVIET, #ALLIES, #YURI, #NEWSIDE
#Aircraft, #Vehicle, #Infantry, #Ship
etc
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Suggestion: allow only moderators to post hashtags.


Members may post key words, but only moderators/admins may approve it. If the key words from post are not approved, they won't show up to users nor affect key word searching.

Quote:
For things in subforums like SHPs, VXL, Research Center it might be even redundant to set hashtags. The forum search for keywords in the topics/titles should be enough.
When someone names his VXL topic "my epic tank" and then also sets a hashtag #MyEpicTank, there isn't a lot more value given by the hashtag.


Your own 'My epic tank' sample shows that we can't trust the title to set key words. So, no, I don't think they are redundant at all.

Quote:
In SHP, VXL subforums it might be even good to offer only a limited number of hashtags, to have in future a more refined search. (Users are not allowed to create new hashtags)
e.g.
#GDI, #NOD, #SOVIET, #ALLIES, #YURI, #NEWSIDE
#Aircraft, #Vehicle, #Infantry, #Ship
etc


We need to set some standards, for sure. But be sure that words start with one capital letters and the others are not capital. Abbreviations should be avoided, although I'd consider an exception for #GDI. Anyway:

#GDI, #Nod, #Soviets, #Allies, #Yuri, #NewSide
#Aircraft, #Vehicle, #Infantry, #Ship

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys, we have some progress with this hashtag system.

1) We have a method to obtain all non-authorized posts in the forum, to speed up the keywords authorization method.

2) We already have an untested method to export posts with certain hashtags to our front page. We'll soon be able to create sections that shows certain type of resources (i.e.: voxels, shps, 3D Models, sounds, maps) with certain features or certain news about specific subjects.

3) If a keyword from your post is authorized and you edit it later, it will be automatically unauthorized for security reasons.

4) We are so close to add keyword search at the Search feature of the forum.

Key Words: #KeyWords #HashTag #Forum #News #PPMForums #ForumSearch 

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
2) We already have an untested method to export posts with certain hashtags to our front page. We'll soon be able to create sections that shows certain type of resources (i.e.: voxels, shps, 3D Models, sounds, maps) with certain features or certain news about specific subjects.


Today I've decided to go back into this one and I've got it working.

This sample has 10 frontpage news with #OpenRA hashtag:
http://www.ppmsite.com/news/rss/openra_hashtag.xml

It's just a matter of time until we improve the organization of our news posts now. Smile

Last edited by Banshee on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Lin Kuei Ominae
Seth


Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweeet Approved!

This looks very promising.
Can't wait till assets (SHP, VXL etc) get hashtags and this way a page with a nice overview, sorting and well organized download system.
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can't wait till assets (SHP, VXL etc) get hashtags and this way a page with a nice overview, sorting and well organized download system.


It shouldn't be hard to add this feature to the site, although I might not be able to code it that quickly either because my PhD thesis is higher in my priority list.

Nonetheless, I've finished another interesting feature: you can now search for Hashtags in the forums. Just go to Search and add the words in the Hashtag block. It will search for posts with all hashtags you've included. If the post does not have all of them, it won't show up. So, you can already search for voxels with specific hashtags. Unfortunately, only few voxel topics uses hashtags at this moment. And the results page has its limitations, such as, it doesn't show pictures from posts, etc.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
The objective of this system is to allow us to organize the topics of the forum in a smarter way and use this organization in our favor.

In the future, this system will allow us to do things like:

- Having forums organized by one or multiples hashtags. I.e.: ppmforums.com/viewforum.php?k=#MySampleMod could have all topics in Public Mod Announcements, PPM News Network, Media Hut, Editing Forums and even beyond about MySampleMod that has #MySampleMod as key words. And there is more: you could also have ppmforums.com/viewforum.php?k=#MySampleMod#GDI#Units that could list all GDI units from MySampleMod.

- Visualize resources with a certain feature with hashtags. I.e.: What about taking a look at all #Voxels that are #Tanks and are #DoubleBarrelled. Or you could also get #Voxels #Aircraft #F-16 if our resources are properly hashtagged. Such search could also be done at the PPM's frontpage.

- We could organize our news in a better way: I.e.: which topics from our PPM News Network are related to Red Alert 2 or Tiberian Sun or whatever other game we cover? Which topics in our News are related to Twisted Insurrection? Hashtags will give us a great hand on organizing this data.



After a strong brainstorm into this topic, I've decided to not create the Hashtag Forum idea. At least not in the way it is specified in the first topic, because it doesn't seem to be feasible to have topics by hashtags when all hashtags in user posts can only be confirmed with moderation approval.

The idea could be split into two:

1a) Related topics by Hashtags inside existing forums. This would help to advertise other forums inside certain forums as well as attract attention to related topics inside other forums.

1b) A separate system to allow users, under certain circumstances (mod leaders mostly) to create certain pre-approved subforums without admin supervision. But that would be a future project that would give more freedom to mod/project leaders.



I'll eventually work on 1.a, which should be easier to implement.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 1a alternative has been partially implemented already. It was much easier than what I expected. I've already coded a bunch of features for this forum in this week. Now, I have to start using them for real.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here's an update: Related Topics has been fully coded and it is already working at the PPM News Network forum. It will display the 5 newest topics with #News on it.

Note that all topics from Related Topics are located at other forums rather than than the ones that displays it.

Key Words: #KeyWords #HashTag #Forum #News #PPMForums #HashtagForums #RelatedTopics 

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Anderwin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N1!
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've implemented Related Topics at all Tutorials forums (except for Miscellaneous Tutorials). I am adding keywords to all tutorials (I still need to finish the RA2 and TS ones), but what we have is already interesting for the users who visits the Media Hut Tutorials and the respective tutorials forums for Generals, C&C3, Red Alert 3, OS SHP Builder and Voxel Section Editor III. We'll may soon create a tutorials forum for OpenRA, because we have a lot of material for it already.


By the way, I'm not done with the new features related to Keywords/Hashtag system. My plans for it so far lies with:

A) Custom authorization system to approve/reprove Key Words.

B) New method to display topics in a forum which includes topics from other forums with certain pre-selected keywords (requires A).

C) Possibility to display posts and topics in searchs splitting the images in the left side and links to the right side. It should be very interesting to allow users to browse voxels of whatever kind of feature they want and see its screenshot without being forced to read the topic about it.

D) Hierarchy for Keywords and hierarchical browsing for it.



It's important to note that I'll only implement the feature below once I have done the letter A:

Quote:
1b) A separate system to allow users, under certain circumstances (mod leaders mostly) to create certain pre-approved subforums without admin supervision. But that would be a future project that would give more freedom to mod/project leaders.


That feature would help mod makers to get a private staff forum for their projects without bureaucracy. But allowing anyone to use set keywords for any post indiscriminately would be dangerous to the feature B and D.

What are you guys thinking about it? Does anyone understands a word of what I'm talking about?

Key Words: #KeyWords #HashTag #Forum #News #PPMForums #HashtagForums #RelatedTopics # 

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most screenshots will be big and unformatted, so unless you plan to make all new icon type images for them, I'm not sure how this splitting thing will work you're speaking of...

So do you plan for posters to request the keywords and someone approved to do so gets to authorize their usage one by one? Because it seems to me the easiest would be an opt-out solution, where the poster can enter them all in the reply form on a separate input box, which gets automatically used... and it would be up to the mods (or relevant parties) to remove them. Thus if there's no abuse of the system, there's also no work involved.

If your hierarchy is in the search form then by all means add that option, but for someone looking for a single keyword this might prove cumbersome, and single keywords are probably the most common. On the other hand, if the hierarchy is selected and it updates the input box with relevant words including the parents, but a user can enter it manually or browse if they don't know.... then that's probably even better.
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Aro
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be much trouble to implement a feature that can reaize YouTube videos? Similar to the [img=500] feature you added a while back. I'm aware that this probably isn't the appropriate topic to request a forum feature, sorry. #Tongue
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
Most screenshots will be big and unformatted, so unless you plan to make all new icon type images for them, I'm not sure how this splitting thing will work you're speaking of...


Actually, it should resize the ones that are bigger than a certain size and show them as a kind of a popup if the user clicks on them. So, this shouldn't necessarily be any big deal at all.

G-E wrote:
So do you plan for posters to request the keywords and someone approved to do so gets to authorize their usage one by one? Because it seems to me the easiest would be an opt-out solution, where the poster can enter them all in the reply form on a separate input box, which gets automatically used... and it would be up to the mods (or relevant parties) to remove them. Thus if there's no abuse of the system, there's also no work involved.


If you reply to this post using the Reply button (instead of Quick Reply), you'll see how it works.



The keywords must be approved by a moderator or administrator to be shown to other users and actually be used in search.

G-E wrote:
If your hierarchy is in the search form then by all means add that option, but for someone looking for a single keyword this might prove cumbersome, and single keywords are probably the most common. On the other hand, if the hierarchy is selected and it updates the input box with relevant words including the parents, but a user can enter it manually or browse if they don't know.... then that's probably even better.


It can be cumbersome or not depending on the interface. But the idea is to have an interface that should be more intuitive to the user select the desired keywords.


Aro wrote:
Would it be much trouble to implement a feature that can reaize YouTube videos? Similar to the [img=500] feature you added a while back. I'm aware that this probably isn't the appropriate topic to request a forum feature, sorry. #Tongue


That's ok, Aro. It should be easy to implement something like this. I'll do it whenever I'm bored.

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G-E
General


Joined: 09 Feb 2015

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
G-E wrote:
Most screenshots will be big and unformatted, so unless you plan to make all new icon type images for them, I'm not sure how this splitting thing will work you're speaking of...

I was more thinking the fact that someone might post large in-game screenshots with units in all the facings, which when reduced will be nearly impossible to discern. In that case cropping would be a better solution, except you don't know where to crop.

I'm wondering if it makes sense to add a second attachment box (or just use a formatted filename) for that search image whenever someone posts? This would require mods to update old posts which don't conform, and until then a dummy image can be loaded...?
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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:

A) Custom authorization system to approve/reprove Key Words.


We've got it running today.


G-E wrote:
I was more thinking the fact that someone might post large in-game screenshots with units in all the facings, which when reduced will be nearly impossible to discern. In that case cropping would be a better solution, except you don't know where to crop.

I'm wondering if it makes sense to add a second attachment box (or just use a formatted filename) for that search image whenever someone posts? This would require mods to update old posts which don't conform, and until then a dummy image can be loaded...?


There is no need for a second attachment box. At the moment, I prefer to add all screenshots, regardless of how bad they may look like if downsized. If the screenshot looks bad downsized, just edit the post and things will be fine #Tongue.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
B) New method to display topics in a forum which includes topics from other forums with certain pre-selected keywords (requires A).


We have an initial implementation of this feature running at the OS SHP Builder Documentation and Tutorials forum. I still have to code the key words message at the bottom of the forum and the synchronization of the forums when key words are approved or reproved.

Key Words: #KeyWords #HashTag #Forum #News #PPMForums #HashtagForums 

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Key words message (at the top, not bottom) has been coded. Synchronization works. I just need to ensure that it synchronizes correctly when a keyword is approved or rejected or a topic with an approved keyword is updated. But I'll work on it soon.

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Banshee
Supreme Banshee


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banshee wrote:
Key words message (at the top, not bottom) has been coded. Synchronization works. I just need to ensure that it synchronizes correctly when a keyword is approved or rejected or a topic with an approved keyword is updated. But I'll work on it soon.


It now synchronizes when posting/editing messages, but there are other situations to synchronize and I'll work on them later.

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