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 Forum index » Modding Central » Red Alert 2 Editing Forum » Ares (Unofficial Forum)
Ideas & suggestions
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TAK02
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Location: ERROR: This guy is out of this world!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't mean Globals being carried over in SAVs. I meant Globals being carried over once set for every single following game session until another trigger clears it.

For instance, a win trigger sets the Global 'Mission01Done'. This state is 'remembered' by the game until another trigger, like one firing at the start of the same mission, clears it.

Basically, I'm asking for UnderTale mechanics in Ares.
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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Blade
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 23 Dec 2003

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is asking for a different level of global then, globals never worked like that in ts engine based games, they only carried over a particular game. You are thinking more about an unlocking kind of logic I believe where options might be available based on what you sun in previous games.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though I'd be happy to see the previous suggestion discussed further (I have never played UnderTale and I'm wondering what its unique approach to campaign progression referenced here may be), I'll interject with another suggestion: HVA sharing. Very many voxel files can run identical HVAs, which means that the sheer amount of files, and thereby the size, of a given mod could be greatly reduced if they all referenced the same HVA, facilitated by the addition of a tag allowing a modder to specify which HVA to reference for a certain voxel instead of the default of using the HVA of the same filename as the voxel.
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TAK02
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
I'd be happy to see the previous suggestion discussed further (I have never played UnderTale and I'm wondering what its unique approach to campaign progression referenced here may be)

Long story short: some events are 'remembered' by the game, even without you needing to save. The game has its own triggers which set specific variables, which in turn influence some characters' actions and dialog. Some changes are 'persistent' even after a reset/restart (or simply turning off the game).
We call those permanent #Tongue

By the way, give UnderTale a try. You'll love it. But only if you haven't looked up anything about it. They say it's best experienced blind. And they're right!
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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RIAKTOR
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 23 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New idea: use pip like other pips. Shooting by tiberium from storage, unload passengers in refinery etc.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last feature already works. DockUnload with Passengers will unload the passengers when the vehicle is docking (though they do not get passed into the building, but simply pop up outside the vehicle).
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NucleiSplitter
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Location: Somewhere in Asia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not add a Unit Info Menu, so people can get to know the new units better... (Highly unlikely)

Anyway, for game mechanics, how about when you clear a building, the former occupants fall from the windows just like in CNC3? But maybe using the last frame of death or something Confused

TAK02 wrote:
AFAIK, zlixine already released a MIX unprotector and de-encryptor. INIs aren't safe any more. Neither are all the VXLs, SHPs, and maps.


When did they manage to come up with that!? Anyway, it can be risky, you won't always be able to find the right asset as the files lost their names! They can still be categorized by filetype though right? Does this mean we can now crack M.O.'s Mixes?
Hopefully not #Tongue I hate it when assets get stolen, and the rippers taking credit for it Sad
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RIAKTOR
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 23 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very impotant things: negative self-healing and custom colored Iron Curtains.

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IamInnocent
Rocket Infantry


Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Location: PC, My house, Malaysia, Earth, Solar System, Universe

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More than 1 FireStreamSys available!
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TAK02
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NucleiSplitter wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
AFAIK, zlixine already released a MIX unprotector and de-encryptor. INIs aren't safe any more. Neither are all the VXLs, SHPs, and maps.


When did they manage to come up with that!? Anyway, it can be risky, you won't always be able to find the right asset as the files lost their names! They can still be categorized by filetype though right? Does this mean we can now crack M.O.'s Mixes?
Hopefully not #Tongue I hate it when assets get stolen, and the rippers taking credit for it Sad


It's MO's own fault for even prompting us to do it. The only reason I was interested in that program was because I wanted to learn from their codes, both INIs and maps.

But nope! They had to prevent newbies from getting into modding by encrypting their MIXs.
Egoisitic A-Holes...
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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NucleiSplitter
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Location: Somewhere in Asia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But I do have to agree with Speeder on the Mix Protection part, if too much effort has been handed to it, it should be protected...

Oh, and Speeder! Could you try to bring back Azri to the community, alot of people miss him Laughing

Okay, back to topic, why not program a new AI that doesn't use scripts, it uses the units and resources it has on it's disposal and will try to predict the next player's course of action, therefore trying to stop the player in a tactical way, and there would be no more endless strings of AI Scripts in the aimd.ini Very Happy

Or, allow the Destroyer to have it's ASW to have a working FLH while it has a Turreted Cannon (desttur.vxl), and the ability for a unit to use multiple Cannon Turrets at the same time. Basically, focus on more REALISTIC DETAILS missing in RA2. And why not try to add a perfectly working Warthog Fighter Dive Attack while your at it Laughing

But seriously, I request a Warthog Fighter Dive Attack, and the Destroyer Turret FLH Fix, the Destroyer can have a turret and have the ASW, but the launch zone of the ASW is weird, due to the fact that the turret changes all FLH's Facing Angle.
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RIAKTOR
Vehicle Drone


Joined: 23 Nov 2013

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want not hardcoded DrainWeapon for ground units and infantry.

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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RIAKTOR wrote:
I want not hardcoded DrainWeapon for ground units and infantry.

Seconded.

Also:
Unless Temporal is made to work with animation damage (and so allowing the desired effect to be achieved by means of AttachEffect: perhaps add a "Temporal.Duration" feature, := determines how long the "temporal" effect lasts on an object after the attacker ceases attacking it. Right now, the temporal effect lasts a few frames after the attack ceases. This tag would allow weapons to inflict a "stasis" effect on targets: the target is hit once (even for no damage) and is then in stasis for however many frames, even without being further attacked, resembling the Arbiter's stasis field in StarCraft.

(It would be preferrable to combine Temporal with animation damage, but only slightly so: it would allow the same feature as described above, and would additionally allow temporal DoTs to be inflicted. However, the latter feature's influence on gameplay would be marginal and almost entirely for visual effect: a unit under temporal DoT is for almost all purposes not part of the game anymore anyway and simply amounts to a visual feature for however long it takes the DoT to remove it, and so this would be almost identical to a weapon inflicting a very high value of initial damage without DoT: in either case, the target is removed from the game, starting the moment the weapon hits it - only remaining visible for awhile in the case of temporal DoT.)

Depending on how far one wants to expand this aspect of Temporal that was never intended to be a feature in itself in the vanilla engine, tags corresponding to those that determine the length of EMP effects could be created for Temporal: duration, cap and so forth. Perhaps even a separate "health bar" versus temporal damage could be instituted, just as we can now make objects destructible from accumulating EMP frames - in principle, though not in the way it is implemented in the code, this has already been included in the recent release by giving the option to determine the chronodamage that a TechnoType can take before being "warped away" as a share of its Strength (whereas, in vanilla, this amount would be identical to the Strength).

Of course, it would also be possible to pry several effects of Temporal from that tag to make them controllable by independent tags - the fading visual effect, the inability to target an object in the process of being chronoshifted and - and this would be especially useful for other modding endeavours - altering the death-anim of a non-infantry object according to the warhead that "kills" it.

The more generic request, combining Temporal with CellSpread, probably has been requested before.
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NucleiSplitter
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Location: Somewhere in Asia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slower Vehicles depending on the weight of the Units Carried...

And also, Miners to be slower when storage compartments get full...

What's the use of the “Weight=” tag?
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TAK02
Cyborg Informer


Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NucleiSplitter wrote:
What's the use of the “Weight=” tag?


When a VehicleType has a higher Weight set than what you'll find under ShipSinkingWeight...
Do I really have to explain that one?
If it's lower, the ship (or VehicleType currently on water) will go *boom*, and not sink.
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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NucleiSplitter
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Location: Somewhere in Asia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
When a VehicleType has a higher Weight set than what you'll find under ShipSinkingWeight...
Do I really have to explain that one?
If it's lower, the ship (or VehicleType currently on water) will go *boom*, and not sink.


Well, it now needs a new use for it Smile
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AlexB
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 31 May 2010
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weight was used for ice in TS. There's a cracking weight setting below which ice will stay intact, and a breaking weigth above which a unit would sink immediately.

Temporal healthbar sounds like a nice touch. I imagine it turning blue and counting down while a unit is being erased, so there's a visual indicator how long it will take.

Aside from that, temporal is special. Health is on the unit itself, so shooting at it reduces health. "Temporal health" is not on the unit, but on the attacker. This is why that health resets when you stop firing. It also means temporal damage can't be done by animations, and there's no persistant health counter like what  EMP threshold needs to work.
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Starkku
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weight is also still used in RA2/YR for determining if a ship will display sinking animation when it is destroyed on water (the threshold being value of global key ShipSinkingWeight) and it affects how much units tilt when being affected by warheads with Rocker=yes.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be wrong, but I believe to remember that it can also be used to determine whether a Locomotor weapon is capable of affecting a target: if the weapon's damage is lower than the Weight of the target, nothing happens when it is fired at the target - though this feature is unused in vanilla YR, perhaps being the reason why the Mag-Beam weapons have such ridiculously high damage values: the feature was not intended to feature in-game, for whatever reason.
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Starkku
Tiberian Beast


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Millennium wrote:
I may be wrong, but I believe to remember that it can also be used to determine whether a Locomotor weapon is capable of affecting a target: if the weapon's damage is lower than the Weight of the target, nothing happens when it is fired at the target


That's Size, not Weight.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see. I suppose Weight would have made too much sense.
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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coincidentally, another annotation to Temporal, I've just ran into a bug with it. Granted, it only occurs in a very specific and obscure type of situation, but it's a bug none-the-less:
If a unit can deploy while staying the same type* (i.e. SimpleDeployer) and uses different weapons in deployed and undeployed state and the unit attacks something in its undeployed state with a weapon that deals chrono-damage and then deploys, the target that was previously attacked continues to take chrono-damage, while the attacker may now engage a different target with its deployed-state weapon without the previous target ceasing to take chrono-damage (unless the deployed-state weapon is also a temporal weapon). Only manually ordering the unit to stop firing, or undeploying it and having it use its chrono-damage undeployed-state weapon on a different target will stop it from dealing chrono-damage to the original target.

* It may occur if the unit deploys between Types as well, but I have not encountered that case.
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XxpeddyxX
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible to:

1. Customise damage sounds vs different armor types aka advanced 'DamageSound' system via warheads.

E.g. bullets will trigger a bullet bouncing off armor sound when attacking vehicles and tank shells will trigger a metal crunch sound when hitting vehicles.

2. Custom UnitLight at different HP stages.

E.g. vehicles yellow and red HP will be slightly darker than normal to indicate damage.

3. DamageSound only when a certain event is met.

E.g. vehicle is at yellow HP, so it triggers a once off 'DamageSound' like buildings do with the BuildingDamage tag
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NucleiSplitter
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Location: Somewhere in Asia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XxpeddyxX wrote:
Is it possible to:

1. Customise damage sounds vs different armor types aka advanced 'DamageSound' system via warheads.

E.g. bullets will trigger a bullet bouncing off armor sound when attacking vehicles and tank shells will trigger a metal crunch sound when hitting vehicles.


I second this! Very Happy
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cxtian39
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: The United States of China

PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can just give different AE's to infantry/vehicle using multiwarhead to play the anim/sound

Rather than just darker the unit, maybe a DamagedImage= or AlternateDamagedArt=yes is more suitable, uh?

DamageSound is just VoiceFeedback=
I have VoiceFeedback=BuildingDamaged on all my vehicles
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XxpeddyxX
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually not a bad idea, maybe splits/airburst multi warhead trick can work with diff sounds. I'll try this when I get home.

Damaged state art would just be more voxel/design work imo but might be easier to implement as there are ways to give alternative art already  (snow, waterimage etc)
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cxtian39
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: The United States of China

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blowing dust on plain ground, blood on infantry, piffs on Vehicle Smile
BTW is there a bloody version of DeadBodies= ?


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Millennium
Commander


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fear
There are hints in the code, dating back to TS, of a fear/panic system, which was never implemented, or perhaps never conceived, beyond the Fraidycat feature.

Perhaps this feature could be expanded upon by giving units a FearThreshold that would determine the ratio of their MaxHP on the occasion of their HP becoming equal to, these units fall into their Panic frames and cease attacking (or following what-ever other order), as opposed to the simple Fraidycat feature, where any damage is sufficient for this to occur.

Perhaps even a "fear factor" could be implemented for warheads, akin to Psychedelic.
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AlexB
Cyborg Commando


Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the terse drive-by evaluation.

DamageSounds for individual warheads would be a nightmare, because this is an 1:N relationship, meaning you would have as many tags as you have ArmorTypes on every warheads. And even if not used: they would still needed to be read.

DamageSound only when a certain event is met: How? Hardcoding an event is easy, having it have a setting like a minimum health is too, but having various possible events like damage, health, maybe passenger count, deactivated or not cannot be conclusively defined in INIs.

Dimming units that are low on health would be easy, but alternative images is again difficult, because this requires a huge number of new settings, because potentially every current one from Image over WaterImage to Turrets would need new handling.

Millennium: What hints on fear do you mean?
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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: The United States of China

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just feel like dimming is poor to express damaged state. It looks nothing like damaged. There has been too many dimming things: the EMPed dim, the deactivated dim, the unoperated also dim... don't overuse it.
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a change of Image (with the default being the original unit), depending on the damage state:

Image.Water= self-explanatory, put this in too alongside WaterImage if you want #Tongue

Image.Yellow= The image at HealthLevel of ConditionYellow or below

Image.Red=  The image at HealthLevel of ConditionRed or below

Of course, the modder would have to edit the voxels in question to have some holes and medium/small black spots, or exposed wiring and what-not.

But it can't be that hard, tho, right?
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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Creator
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 15 Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere in Viet Nam

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can there be a destroy-able terrain type, it would be great to have that feature

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cxtian39
Cyborg Firebomber


Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Location: The United States of China

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
Maybe a change of Image (with the default being the original unit), depending on the damage state:

Image.Water= self-explanatory, put this in too alongside WaterImage if you want #Tongue

Image.Yellow= The image at HealthLevel of ConditionYellow or below

Image.Red=  The image at HealthLevel of ConditionRed or below

Of course, the modder would have to edit the voxels in question to have some holes and medium/small black spots, or exposed wiring and what-not.

But it can't be that hard, tho, right?
Yellow&Red cross-product with WaterImage, UnloadingClass, SimpleDeployer, NoSpawnAlt blah blah
It looks like NoSpawnAlt is using buffer of the turret and differs from others. Maybe others differ too I don't know. Maybe that's why Alex said it needs more handling.
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TAK02
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Creator wrote:
Can there be a destroy-able terrain type, it would be great to have that feature


You mean destroyable rocks? Or terrain-deformation like in TS?
Does Ares even add support for deformation?
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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XxpeddyxX
Commander


Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deformation was removed from the engine cos it was too laggy
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TAK02
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Joined: 28 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played TS a few times and never saw a difference in game-speed.
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m7 wrote:
I tend to release things I create so that assets are never lost to hard drive problems, accidental deletion, or me having to pretend to care about rippers taking things from my project when it is done. #Tongue

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NucleiSplitter
Cyborg Cannon


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Location: Somewhere in Asia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Add the Unit Movement Modes (Waypoint, Planning, etc.) from C&C 3 to Ares #Tongue

It may add a new range of possible tactics for players Smile
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silverwind
Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 11 Jun 2016

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About damage sounds, some thoughts:

An addition to the Versus and AnimList logics to show a certain animation when impacting a certain armor types. It could default to the AnimList when an entry for the armor can't be found.

This would allow us to have different sounds (associated with said anims) depending on target, while also allowing for that things like dust as default, etc.

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Cyborg Soldier


Joined: 15 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when will we have the multi-turret ability?

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XxpeddyxX
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Joined: 03 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@TAK02: to be honest me neither #Tongue

@NS: What I really would love to see is for aircraft to guard area and attack move, Generals did this perfectly.

I'm using airburstweapons for impact sounds atm, works fine.

Multi turret would be awesome for ships.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Location: Osaka (JP)/Hong Kong/Germany

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cxtian39 wrote:
TAK02 wrote:
Maybe a change of Image (with the default being the original unit), depending on the damage state:

Image.Water= self-explanatory, put this in too alongside WaterImage if you want #Tongue

Image.Yellow= The image at HealthLevel of ConditionYellow or below

Image.Red=  The image at HealthLevel of ConditionRed or below

Of course, the modder would have to edit the voxels in question to have some holes and medium/small black spots, or exposed wiring and what-not.

But it can't be that hard, tho, right?
Yellow&Red cross-product with WaterImage, UnloadingClass, SimpleDeployer, NoSpawnAlt blah blah
It looks like NoSpawnAlt is using buffer of the turret and differs from others. Maybe others differ too I don't know. Maybe that's why Alex said it needs more handling.


Cross-product is a good way to put it. How about Type-based Image transmutations, though? Suggestion: WaterClass, DeployedClass, NoSpawnClass, DamagedClass, CriticalClass, reading only the Image from the TechnoTypes defined therein, plus the *Class entries here listed.

I know this is far beyond the scope of anything Ares can reasonably be expected to ever include, but it would be a more feasible way than defining each "cross-product" within a flag of its own (i.e. WaterDamagedNoSpawnImage, LandDeployedCriticallyDamagedImage and so forth).

In fact, while I'm at building cloud castles, you could even have outright Type transmutations, rolling several other features (generalized TechnoType-to-TechnoType deploying, NextType veterancy) into the same logic. Then all we'd need would be "InitialStrength" to determine that a damaged unit actually starts out at the health level that the unit it transforms from had at the moment of transformation, and the value at which the transformation to the next-damaged state occurs would have to be checked against that InitialStrength by the engine, if it is a ratio, as opposed to checking it against Strength, for obvious reasons; this would allow fancy things like damaged units having lower speed, worse armor, less damage etc. and would even allow for Gen/ZH's Battle Bus Bunker function.

AlexB wrote:
Sorry for the terse drive-by evaluation.

Thank you for taking the time to sift through our sketchbook!

Quote:

DamageSounds for individual warheads would be a nightmare, because this is an 1:N relationship, meaning you would have as many tags as you have ArmorTypes on every warheads. And even if not used: they would still needed to be read.

No way for [Warhead]DamageSound.ArmorTypeB to default to [Warhead]DamageSound.ArmorTypeA, if [ArmorTypes] defines ArmorTypeB=ArmorTypeA? Otherwise, what about DamageSounds per warhead per TechnoType subset? Maybe that would be enough to satisfy most uses for this feature. Or else, [TechnoType]DamageSound1(2,3,...)=sound ID || DamageSound1(2,3,...)Warheads=list of warheads that trigger DamageSound of corresponding number?

Quote:

Millennium: What hints on fear do you mean?

I... I'm not sure actually. There's art handling for fear frames and the Fraidycat thing isn't a bool internally, hinting that different values could be used? Someone pointed this out to me years ago. Perhaps it was a figment of imagination, but perhaps I can dig something up if I go look for it.
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AlexB
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAK02 wrote:
But it can't be that hard, tho, right?

The difficulty isn't in doing it, but in doing it right. As cxtian39 and Millennium pointed out, these features interact with each other and you would have to have different images for all possible combinations of such states. Water/land, green/yellow/red, passengers/empty, ammo/no ammo, plus IFV combinations... Also, these features will all take up space even if not used. Voxels might be loaded multiple times, and even if not, the game would still need to store them.

The issue with all these 1:N relationship tags is that they usually require a lot of work by the coder and the modder. For example, the four Versus tags on Warheads for each ArmorType are hard to define, if you add another ArmorType you'll potentially have to update all Warheads, and updating something later is also tedious. Code-wise, it's straightforward to code, but look at how complex it is to use. For reference: ArmorTypes and ParaDrop SWs.

silverwind's animation idea has about the same issue: one more tag, multiplied by the number of ArmorTypes, per warhead. It's possible, shouldn't be much work to get this done, but it would be wasteful even if not used.

Millennium's DamageSound1, ... and so on would be the same, just in disguide. Instead of having 1:N, you would have a list of sounds, multiple lists of warheads, and each time a warhead hits, all of those lists would have to be checked for the current warhead. But I think I see the idea there. You seem to want something like a [DamageTypes] section with 0=Flesh 1=Wood 2=Metal 3=Concrete; on each unit a DamageType= value like [BRUTE]DamageType=Flesh and on the Warhead FleshDamageSound=... ConcreteDamageSound=... for things like bullets hitting people or bunkers differently, or maybe Virus darts giving a thud on a GI but a plink on a tank. Then you would have sounds grouped by "meaning", but there are edge cases that couldn't be solved using this.

Creator wrote:
when will we have the multi-turret ability?

I don't know. I'm not working on it.
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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I'm using AirburstWeapon chain to apply different AttachEffects to Infantry/Unit/Building respectively to do the different anims against different armors thing, I found that for large building >1x1, its AE anim isn't played at where it's shot at.

Last edited by cxtian39 on Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:31 am; edited 2 times in total

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Starkku
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cxtian39 wrote:
When I'm using AirburstWeapon chain to apply different AttachEffects to Infantry/Unit/Building respectively to do the different anims against different armors thing, I found that for large building >1x1, its AE anim isn't played at where it's shot at. The AE anim is a bit upper.


It's played on the 'first cell' of the building which is always the top-leftmost one regardless of foundation. It's same with all things 'attached' to buildings, IvanBombs, EMP sparkle animation etc.
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G-E
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="AlexB"]Millennium's DamageSound1, ... and so on would be the same, just in disguide. Instead of having 1:N, you would have a list of sounds, multiple lists of warheads, and each time a warhead hits, all of those lists would have to be checked for the current warhead. But I think I see the idea there. You seem to want something like a [DamageTypes] section with 0=Flesh 1=Wood 2=Metal 3=Concrete; on each unit a DamageType= value like [BRUTE]DamageType=Flesh and on the Warhead FleshDamageSound=... ConcreteDamageSound=... for things like bullets hitting people or bunkers differently, or maybe Virus darts giving a thud on a GI but a plink on a tank. Then you would have sounds grouped by "meaning", but there are edge cases that couldn't be solved using this./quote]
Not that I care, but it seems to me there would be a fairly simple implementation that would at least add diversity.

Some warheads are defined with Bullets=,Rocker=,Conventional=,Deform= etc that could all be used to define which damagesound is called for an armortype no? You'd need a predefined list in one of the global sections, but it would avoid the multiplicity of resources.

By this I mean 1:1 relationships, so let's say you give a special damage sound to Bullets on concrete, medium and heavy armortypes, and for all other armortypes it would use the default. Give warheads 1 explicit alternate sound based on some tag (as above) to use for a list of armortypes, UseAlternateDamageSound=medium,heavy,concrete...

If you only have 4 alternates possible sounds linked explicitly to a given tag, and each warhead gets 1 alternate, the array would be pretty small.
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Millennium
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Joined: 09 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-E wrote:
AlexB wrote:
Millennium's DamageSound1, ... and so on would be the same, just in disguide. Instead of having 1:N, you would have a list of sounds, multiple lists of warheads, and each time a warhead hits, all of those lists would have to be checked for the current warhead. But I think I see the idea there. You seem to want something like a [DamageTypes] section with 0=Flesh 1=Wood 2=Metal 3=Concrete; on each unit a DamageType= value like [BRUTE]DamageType=Flesh and on the Warhead FleshDamageSound=... ConcreteDamageSound=... for things like bullets hitting people or bunkers differently, or maybe Virus darts giving a thud on a GI but a plink on a tank. Then you would have sounds grouped by "meaning", but there are edge cases that couldn't be solved using this./quote]
Not that I care, but it seems to me there would be a fairly simple implementation that would at least add diversity.

Some warheads are defined with Bullets=,Rocker=,Conventional=,Deform= etc that could all be used to define which damagesound is called for an armortype no? You'd need a predefined list in one of the global sections, but it would avoid the multiplicity of resources.

By this I mean 1:1 relationships, so let's say you give a special damage sound to Bullets on concrete, medium and heavy armortypes, and for all other armortypes it would use the default. Give warheads 1 explicit alternate sound based on some tag (as above) to use for a list of armortypes, UseAlternateDamageSound=medium,heavy,concrete...

If you only have 4 alternates possible sounds linked explicitly to a given tag, and each warhead gets 1 alternate, the array would be pretty small.


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cxtian39
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Joined: 11 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes aircraft fires 1 extra ammo. Is it due to loosy atomicity?
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MRMIdAS
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Joined: 17 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any chance of expanding AI triggers?

with the new logics (such as reverse-engineering) it'd be nice to have the AI use stuff they reversed, much like "if owning side has this building do this" but "if owning side reverse engineers this, do this", or something along those lines.

I don't doubt this might be complicated as all hell, so if it's a no, that's cool.
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Ich-Henker
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Joined: 06 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an AI suggestion too: make AI use FreeUnit=-units by using the hunt command (like unit delivery sw units) otherwise they mostly stand there.

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Millennium
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least recruit them into AI teams, I agree with that. I'm not sure if I'd support a universal Hunt mission for FreeUnits.
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